Debates of April 28th, 2010

International Cooperation

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to read from a news release from organizations that are trying to work with us on this issue. They say:

It's time to focus on the hope and opportunity that this G8 Initiative on Maternal, Newborn and Child Health presents and end the suffering of millions of families around the world. It's time to commit significant and new investments to meet this need. It's time to measure success in lives saved, not political points scored.

That is from the CEOs of World Vision, UNICEF, Results Canada, CARE Canada, Plan Canada and Save the Children.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we could save 70,000 lives per year.

The Minister for La Francophonie says that the WHO does not talk about abortion. That is absolutely false. The WHO agrees with the Canadian position of the past 25 years. This government is tampering with the Canadian position to satisfy the ultra-religious lobby. This is a step backwards straight into the Duplessis era. Women, and not the Prime Minister, must control their bodies.

What right does the Prime Minister have to interfere in the medical decisions of African women?

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, what I find terribly sad is the fact that the member and the entire opposition are trying to make an issue that simply does not exist.

I have already read the statements of people who are trying to work with our government. Let me remind her who they are: the CEOs of World Vision, UNICEF, Results Canada, CARE Canada, Plan Canada and Save the Children.

I will take their counsel, not hers.

Afghanistan

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday's Speaker's ruling about the Afghan detainee documents could also apply to the government's attitude in general. When dealing with various issues, the Conservative government has lacked transparency, exhibited ideological stubbornness and scorned democracy. The right of women in developing countries to have abortions and the Rahim Jaffer affair are just the latest examples of that.

Now that the Speaker of the House has given him a slap on the wrist, will the Prime Minister acknowledge that he is in the minority and stop trying to impose his backward ideology at all costs?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, with respect to the maternal and child health initiative to save the lives of mothers and women around the world, our position respects the vote in the House of Commons.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that is certainly not Quebec's vision.

We are not asking the Prime Minister to sacrifice safety in the name of truth. We are asking him not to use safety as an excuse for hiding the truth. The Prime Minister was elected because he promised greater transparency and democracy.

Will he seize this opportunity and respect the will of the House?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Bloc leader talked about what Quebec wants. Quebeckers have voted on this issue twice, and they have chosen to stay and to respect the vital role played by a united Canada. That makes the Bloc the only party to reject what the people of Quebec want.

Ethics

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Mr. Speaker, a fourth minister has admitted that he was contacted by unregistered lobbyist Rahim Jaffer. Following on the Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, the Minister of the Environment, and the Minister of State for Science and Technology, now the Minister of Industry has remembered that his staff received an email from the former Conservative MP.

Instead of having them come forward one at a time, will the Prime Minister table a full list of his cabinet members and their staff who had contact with unregistered lobbyist Rahim Jaffer?

[John Baird, Conservative, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, this government expects all Canadians to follow the Lobbying Act and all the rules it contains. This is the government that strengthened that act. We put in place, as one of our first orders of business, an independent commissioner of lobbying who can make determinations based on issues that are brought to her attention.

I say to the member opposite that, if she has any evidence of anyone who has contradicted the act, she should follow the example of members of this government and turn it over to that independent commissioner.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it has been established that Rahim Jaffer was lobbying his former Conservative colleagues without being registered. However the Prime Minister was informed by the private detective from the beginning that Rahim Jaffer was promising his business associates access to the Prime Minister's Office.

Why did the Prime Minister not immediately hand over this information to the lobbying commissioner? Who did he want to protect?

[John Baird, Conservative, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, let us be very clear. When serious allegations were brought to the attention of the Prime Minister, he did the ethical thing. He did the honourable thing and he immediately referred the allegations to an independent third party.

If the member opposite has any information or any evidence with respect to a contradiction of the act, she should follow the Prime Minister's lead, do the right thing and turn it over to the relevant authorities.

Afghanistan

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, your ruling yesterday reminded everyone that the Prime Minister must be accountable to Parliament.

No one here wants to put our troops in danger. However, we need to shed some light on who knew what about the transfer of Afghan detainees.

After all the stalling tactics, secrecy and cover-ups, will the Prime Minister show some common sense? Will the Prime Minister let the members do their jobs to ensure that Canadians know the truth?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have already answered this question. The answer is clear: we want to respect the rulings as well as our legal obligations that have been established by statutes passed by this House.

As always, the government depends on the confidence of the House.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's interpretation of your ruling, exemplified here today in the House, is wrong.

You have said that it is the view of the Chair that accepting an unconditional authority of the executive to censor the information provided to Parliament, as the Prime Minister is suggesting he is prepared to do by using other legislation as his cover, would in fact jeopardize the very separation of powers that is purported to lie at the heart of our parliamentary system.

Is the Prime Minister saying to us today that he is going to use other laws of Parliament in order to hide the truth that you have said has to be brought forward?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I said no such thing. You have delivered a decision. Obviously, the government seeks to respect that decision. At the same time, it seeks to respect its obligations established by statute and passed by this Parliament. That is the position of the government. The leader of the NDP talks about confidence. Of course, the government's position always depends on the confidence of the House.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, your ruling was very clear. Let me quote it for the Prime Minister and others. You said:

No exceptions are made for any category of government documents, even those related to national security.

Is the Prime Minister telling us today that he is going to defy the ruling of the Speaker and the will of the House in order to go to an election? Is that what he is saying he is going to do? Is he going to defy the will of the House and go to the people on a vote? Is that what he is putting forward today?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think I said any of those things. In fact, I think I said quite the contrary. The government seeks at all times to respect all of its obligations. To the extent that some of those obligations may be in conflict, there are reasonable ways to accommodate that, and we are open to reasonable suggestions in that regard.

Ethics

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we understand that the Minister of the Environment has forwarded to the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates documents related to discussions that his political director of regional affairs had last spring with Rahim Jaffer regarding some of Mr. Jaffer's commercial interests.

Now that the minister has admitted that these meetings took place in the office of the former minister of state for the status of women, can he now confirm that some of these discussions and communications were related to the company RLP Energy Incorporated?

[John Baird, Conservative, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, let me be very clear at the outset. None of the allegations that have been made in this place in recent weeks have seen any government funding or contract go to Mr. Jaffer. Let us be very clear on that.

Let me also say that when it was brought to the attention of the Minister of the Environment that meetings had taken place, he did the right thing. He did the honourable thing. He collected that information and sent it to the independent authority who is responsible for ensuring high ethics.

That is the right thing to do. That is the honourable thing to do. If the member opposite has any allegations or any evidence of the same, he should follow the example of the Minister of the Environment.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the minister has sent information to the committee, and he admits that his regional director met with Mr. Jaffer in the office of the former minister for the status of women. First, can he tell us what project was discussed? Second, what type of project was it? Third, how much money did Mr. Jaffer or his partner, Patrick Glémaud, ask for from the Government of Canada?

[John Baird, Conservative, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, let me be very clear. Canadians can see the difference between the high ethical standards of this Conservative government and the scandal-plagued Liberals who preceded us. When we got emails from lobbyists, this government turned them over to the independent ethics commissioner and the independent lobbying commissioner. When the Liberals got emails from lobbyists, they turned over bags of cash to them.

Lobbying

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Transport, the man who proclaimed a so-called new era of accountability, will not even answer simple questions in the House. Accountability is not simply words. It is how one acts, answering for these actions and fixing one's mistakes.

Since parliamentary secretaries do not fall under existing rules for lobbying, will the minister and his government fix this loophole immediately?

[John Baird, Conservative, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, let us be very clear. Canadians can see the difference. When the Liberal Party was in power, it turned over bags of money to the lobbyists. Then the lobbyists sent some of that money back to the Liberal Party. Then the Liberal Party got caught and it had to send some of that money back to the taxpayers.

We got back $1 million that was stolen from taxpayers by the Liberal Party; $1 million down, $39 million to go.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, why is the minister afraid of answering the questions? There is no better example of the culture of deceit than this.

Ministers rise each day and talk about accountability, and all the while they refuse to answer for the actions, refuse to admit mistakes and refuse to fix the problems they knowingly created.

There is a simple solution. Do what is right and close the loopholes. Why is the minister so afraid of doing that? Why the secrecy? Why the deceit?

[John Baird, Conservative, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, this government is never afraid to do what is right.

On the subject of doing what is right, what would be right, what would be in the interests of Canadian families, what would be in the interests of Canadian taxpayers would be for the Liberal Party to pay back the $39 million that is still missing.