Debates of Oct. 4th, 2011

Opposition Motion--National Suicide Prevention Strategy

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

As I said in my speech, Madam Speaker, the government is funding different programs and one of them is training professional front line workers to recognize the problems with mental illness, which includes suicide.

Over 90% of the people who commit suicide have mental illness issues. I cannot remember the exact statistics, but thousands of Canadians are now being trained at the grassroots level to recognize the signs and symptoms. The average everyday Canadian is not going to be trained to volunteer as a therapist, but it is important that they be trained to recognize the signs and symptoms of their colleagues, their friends, and family who are having a hard time or having issues, so that they can be provided with and directed to the proper treatment.

Working with our partners, whether it is through the provinces and territories or whether it is through the grassroots organizations, we will really be able to make a difference. All of us here in the House are willing to do more. It is an important commitment to address.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Madam Speaker, I want to thank my colleague the parliamentary secretary for outlining many of the positive initiatives that our government has initiated over the past five and a half years.

I also want to thank my colleague, the leader of the Liberal Party, for giving us the opportunity to debate this important issue today. Just the fact that this issue is being discussed is important because for far too long this has been shrouded in secrecy and silence. There is also a stigma attached to it.

Members will know that last week I tabled my private member's Bill C-300, which calls on the government to create a federal framework for suicide prevention.

As our colleagues have pointed out today, the numbers are truly appalling. Over 300 people every month end their lives by suicide, or the equivalent of the number of passengers in one large airliner. We have local stories here in Ottawa. Back in my region of Waterloo last year, in one week, three youths ended their lives by suicide.

We have good work going on across the country. Little chapters are doing excellent work. What we need is a federal leadership role, not just in terms of looking at risk factors and prevention but also in what we would term "postvention", in terms of caring for those who are left to deal with the aftermath of suicide.

I wonder if my colleague would comment on the importance of having some part of a framework or a strategy, or a government initiative that would deal with those families and communities that are left broken as a result of suicide.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Madam Speaker, I want to thank my colleague from Kitchener—Conestoga for all of his good work. He did mention his private member's bill that was proposed last week. He is truly a leader in this important field.

My colleague brought up something that many of us forget. The tragedy of suicide is not only the loss of a life but its affect on family, friends and loved ones left behind. Our government is ensuring that we work in partnership with community organizations. Each community is different in how it can handle and manage the different services that are required. It is an extremely important service to have available to not only console family members and friends but to help them and co-workers left behind deal with such a tragic loss. I thank him for bringing that forward.

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Denise Savoie]

The hon. member for Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing has time for only a very brief question.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Madam Speaker, I appreciate being given the time to ask a question, for this is such an important issue.

The suicide rate in aboriginal and Inuit communities is very high, and the federal government is responsible for granting funds to those communities. I know that many suicides have taken place in the communities in my riding. Can the government tell us why these communities practically have to get on their knees and beg for the funds needed to figure out what is best for them?

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Madam Speaker, my colleague points out one of the challenges, particularly coming from the north. There is a higher rate of suicide and, as she knows, the minister is actually from the north and is acutely aware of the difficulty, particularly with the different communities trying to manage this horrible situation.

However, I am proud to say that our government recognizes the high rates of suicide, particularly in aboriginal young people. In budget 2010 we invested $75 million to extend the national aboriginal youth suicide prevention strategy to 2015, which is a $10 million increase over previous investments. We provided nearly $15 million in the last year to the Government of Nunavut.

As I said before, we really have to look at the partnership with the provinces and territories, and the grassroots organizations. We also included $4 million for the national aboriginal youth suicide prevention strategy because we are committed and we are committed to doing more.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Madam Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Beauharnois—Salaberry.

I am very pleased to participate in the debate today on this very important motion. I thank the member for Toronto Centre for bringing forward this motion. New Democrats support this motion wholeheartedly and are glad there is a thoughtful debate taking place in the House of Commons today. We cannot always say that there is thoughtful debate. This is a very important issue and I know many members will contribute to the debate.

I listened very carefully to the comments by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health and while I appreciate that he told the House what it is the Government of Canada has been involved in, I feel there was a lack of information. It seems to me that the debate today, particularly for the Government of Canada, is an opportunity for some reflection, not just about what it thinks it is doing but about what is not being done.

I did not hear that in the parliamentary secretary's speech, which was disappointing because today all sides of the House are willing to hear that kind of debate. We want to hear from the government where it thinks it is not doing enough and we want it to ask the House to support a greater effort toward what needs to be done.

Presumably, we are having this debate because there is a great sense by the Government of Canada and all of us that there is a crisis. The member for Toronto Centre made the point that it is not just the government but all parties. We have not done enough on this issue. I wanted to begin my remarks that way because I am hoping that other government members will be more reflective and make part of the debate what the Government of Canada, from its point of view, needs to be doing in a better way.

One thing I would draw attention to are the underlying risk factors. The fact is that many studies have been done on the prevalence of suicide in groups that are at high risk. We have heard some of that in the debate today, such as aboriginal youth in the north in small and remote communities, but there are other demographics and populations that are at risk, like the LGBT community, veterans and seniors. There are many studies being put forward.

It seems to me that we do not pay enough attention to some of the underlying risk factors. The fact is that suicide is preventable if one understands what is taking place, whether it is on a personal level in terms of someone who may be suffering from depression and mental illness or someone who has gone through some sort of trauma and tragic circumstances, but there are also bigger societal, socio-economic and social conditions that are in effect.

We have seen it many times in our country. How many times have we turned to a particular channel on TV and heard the most tragic story of a string of suicides taking place in some small community? Surely, that has to be setting off alarm bells that there social conditions in this country to do with poverty, isolation, lack of educational opportunities, overcrowding in housing, and a lack of the basic necessities of human dignity in life. Surely, these are assessments and risk factors that we should be looking at.

Another one would be stigma. If one looks at lesbian, gay and bisexual youth, we know they are at a much higher risk for attempting suicide than heterosexual youth, 28% versus 4% according to the Crisis Intervention and Suicide Prevention Centre of British Columbia. These statistics are very alarming.

The motion talks about a strategy and setting up a fund. We have to understand, grapple, and come to terms with some of the underlying risk factors that are operating within our country.

We think of Canada as this incredibly wealthy place, a place of opportunity, a place of incredible resources, great cities, a great environment, and yet we have these very alarming statistics. We have to ask ourselves why it is that we have a society where the gap is widening between people who are doing exceptionally well and people who are being left behind, people who are living in poverty. I hope that in today's debate we can focus attention on some of those issues.

My colleague, the member for Halifax, recently tabled Bill C-297, An Act respecting a National Strategy for Suicide Prevention. It is an excellent bill. The government would be well advised in supporting this motion to look at that bill and to incorporate the ideas that are in the bill. The bill clearly lays out the need to ensure there is access to mental health and substance abuse services and the need to reduce the stigma associated with using mental health and suicide related services.

The bill also talks about the need to establish national guidelines for best practices in suicide prevention and to work with communities to use culture specific knowledge to design appropriate policies and programs. That is a very important element. There is not a one-size-fits-all approach. It is a matter of understanding what is going on in a particular community, whether it be in a geographic sense or in a demographic sense, to understand those cultural specific risk factors and issues that are at play. The bill also talks about the need to coordinate professionals and organizations throughout the country in order to share information and research, and to support our health care professionals and our advocacy groups who work with individuals who are at risk of suicide.

I was on a Via Rail train a couple of days ago and picked up a magazine that was in the pocket in front of me. As I was looking through the magazine I was surprised to see a major feature about suicide. It focused on the risk of suicide as it affects students, particularly those who are in an environment where the stress of academic excellence produces an enormous amount of anxiety and possibly depression. This particular article focused on the number of deaths by suicide that had taken place at Queen's University. That is where I happened to be going to speak at a human rights conference.

I thought it was quite remarkable that in a Via Rail magazine there was a major article about suicide, particularly focusing on a population in our society that we often think is doing alright. They are the students who are motivated, who have all kinds of self-esteem, who are doing really well; they are the elite, the future of our society. It was quite shocking to read the stories of what had unfolded at just one post-secondary educational facility. It was quite shocking to read of the trauma and the impact of the tragedy, and the number of deaths that had taken place in the life of that particular university. I do not mean to single out Queen's because I know this happens elsewhere as well, but it just happened to be the focus of that article. It was truly shocking.

This brings to the attention of all of us that the issue of suicide as it relates to mental health and well-being is very prevalent. The statistics that we see, that 10 people every day commit suicide, are very alarming and shocking.

For those of us in the official opposition, the NDP members, we see this issue as a national priority. We are very happy that the member for Halifax has introduced a private member's bill. It is a very comprehensive bill that gives us the framework for what we need to do to bring forward a national strategy.

I am going to end by coming back to the Government of Canada. Let today be a day where we all participate in this debate and rather than only describe the problem, let us focus on what needs to be done.

Let the government members think about what they are not doing, what they have not been addressing. Why is it that so many aboriginal communities are living in third world conditions? Why is the suicide rate so high in small northern communities? Why is this an issue that affects our youth and the LGBT community? These are the things that we need to talk about in order to come up with an adequate national strategy.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Madam Speaker, we talk about people who commit suicide, people who are distraught and are way down at the bottom of the barrel, one could say.

However, there is something we should have at the back of our minds. We should be thinking about addressing the issue of people who commit suicide involuntarily or who are not cognizant that they are doing it. There are people who go out and drink and then compound their need to get high by taking drugs. Some of those people, through those means, commit suicide unknowingly, not wanting to do that.

Would the member also address the fact that a lot of people overdose, that people drink and take prescribed pills? Should we also, through the strategy that we are talking about creating here today, make sure that we address that particular issue?

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Madam Speaker, I think my hon. colleague is entirely correct. There are broader and bigger issues related to suicide.

I am very involved in my community where people are facing addictions, often because of trauma, often as an issue of self-medication, often as a result of being homeless and on the street, or having come through residential schools.

This is the point. We see these communities that are incredibly high risk for a number of factors. It may well be that somebody makes a decision to end his or her life. It may be a situation where the person's lifestyle and the behaviours the person engages in are leading him or her to a very early death, which again is preventable.

We have to ask ourselves not only what we can do as individuals but also what kind of strategy we can put in place to address the underlying issues and risk factors that are preventable. If we provided the resources for housing, education, and proper counselling and follow-up, I think the number of deaths would decrease.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Madam Speaker, that we are having this conversation in a national forum like this is so important. It is important that we end the silence around this topic.

I want to commend a previous questioner who commented about my colleague, Dave Batters. I also want to take this opportunity to thank Denise Batters for her amazing work and for not being afraid to share her story and bring it into the public forum. As members know, my colleague Dave Batters was very open about his battle with depression. For many of us it was a total shock to hear that he had ended his life by suicide. He was always such an encouragement and a great person to be around.

I think my colleague will agree that not all suicides are the result of mental illness. There is, as is pointed in the motion, a public health issue as well.

Would my colleague highlight what her understanding is of the need for a public health part of this, in addition to the mental health part?

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Madam Speaker, I am glad that the motion was framed as a public health issue as well. That allows us to examine the broader aspects in terms of awareness and stigma, and the education that needs to take place.

What a familiar and sad story that when people learn of someone who has taken his or her own life they often say that they did not realize what was going on.

I think there is an element of broader public understanding, in the sense of the family or within the school system, and for all of us, whether we are colleagues here in the House or whether it is in our local communities. This is such an important element because, unfortunately, there is still a stigma associated with mental illness and depression.

Again, I think this is why today it is really important that we urge the Mental Health Commission of Canada and the Government of Canada to focus on a specific strategy that deals with suicide prevention.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. colleague from Vancouver East for sharing her time with me. I would also like to say that the NDP will be supporting the Liberal motion regarding a national suicide prevention strategy, since this is a very urgent problem that needs to be addressed.

A national prevention strategy is essential, because it will save lives. To achieve that, however, we need to work together and provide the assistance that people who are suffering need. To ensure that all communities in Canada receive the care and attention they need, we must take a coordinated approach. Over the past 20 years, our society has become more aware of the complex issue of suicide. We now know that at-risk people usually feel isolated and are often suffering terribly. We also know more about the medical, social and economic causes of suicide.

In the 1980s and 1990s, some programs started up in various provinces and they have produced tangible results. Since 1998, Quebec has had a provincial suicide prevention strategy with specific funding. The help centres work together and form a provincial network. There is also a provincial emergency help line and a hotline devoted exclusively to young people, called Kids Help Phone. We now have suicide prevention training for health professionals and the provincial government is funding research in this field. Youth centres, the CLSCs, NGOs and other partners are now working together to offer people at risk the necessary help and aftercare.

Before adopting this strategy, the suicide rate in Quebec was one of the highest in the industrialized world. The suicide rate dropped from 18% in 1981 to 14% in 2009. That is a clear improvement, but much more progress remains to be achieved. The data show that an effective strategy, involving all the players, can be fruitful.

Unfortunately, a number of our country's isolated communities still do not have access to these programs. That is why it is important to focus on local and provincial initiatives and come up with a national strategy to ensure that no one is forgotten. Although suicide is an individual action, it has to be viewed as a public health issue. Quality of life, one's social network and the help available can have a positive impact on a person in distress, if those resources are accessible, of course.

Without help, people in distress are isolated and left alone with their suicidal thoughts. There is a great risk that the person will go through with it. Family violence and drug and alcohol use can aggravate the state of the person in distress. Things such as trouble finding a place to live, a broken heart, failure, rejection, financial problems or any other stressful event that causes anxiety or sadness can trigger suicidal ideas. That is when the straw breaks the camel's back.

The incidence of suicide is higher in some groups. People with mental health problems, the homeless, seniors or youth, for example, are at higher risk. In the case of the homeless, their distress is aggravated by their miserable living conditions. These people often cannot access health services because of their precarious social situation and the fact that they do not have an address. Homelessness remains a phenomenon that is not well understood and the homeless are often treated with disdain. For that reason any initiative to help these people must be applauded.

I would like to point out that, on October 21, outdoor vigils will be held in Salaberry-de-Valleyfield, which is in my riding, and throughout Quebec. The Nuit des sans-abri is organized by the organization P.A.C.T. de rue. These events can help us understand what the homeless experience, their distress, and also their needs and rights, which are often overlooked.

Other groups are also considered to be more susceptible to suicidal thoughts, including aboriginal youth. This has been mentioned several times today. The community of Akwesasne, located in my riding, knows all too well what I am speaking about. In the past 18 months, four young people have taken their own lives. For a community of 15,000 people, this loss of human life is a tragedy. The youth of this Mohawk community often struggle with drug and alcohol abuse. Some of them steal prescription drugs, or are recruited by criminal gangs to run drugs to be sold on the black market.

Mental health services are available in the Akwesasne community, but not all young people will accept help. The reserve's leaders point out the importance of providing services that are tailored to the reality of these young people and would like to set up a help line for aboriginal youth, because there is none at present.

In addition, the adolescent treatment centre in Akwesasne, which provides care for young people with addictions, is still waiting for federal government funding so that staff can continue their work with youth. Thus, it is of the utmost importance that these young people receive help that respects their cultural and spiritual identity. In general, these young people are at a higher risk of suicidal ideation. Suicide is the leading cause of death among youth aged 10 to 24. Adolescence is a critical time involving significant changes. It is a time when young people are building their personal identity and self-esteem. They are experiencing peer pressure and feel pressured to succeed in school. They are also sometimes the victims of schoolyard bullying or domestic violence.

Mental health problems often become apparent during adolescence. The role of psychologists, psychoeducators, social workers, street workers, teachers and others is key in identifying the warning signs. These teachers and health professionals must be trained and given the financial support they need to know how to act and react when faced with the distress of these young people.

It is also important to reduce the stigmatization of young people with suicidal thoughts and behaviour. There are still too many taboos, and people do not dare to speak out about their unhappiness. Consulting mental health professionals and identifying themselves as someone who needs help is not an obvious course of action for them because there is still a lot of prejudice in this regard. Nevertheless, we must encourage these young people to talk to the appropriate people. This will show that they are trying to improve their situation and that they want to regain balance in their lives. That is what we must encourage. Help must therefore be available when people need it.

The bill introduced by my colleague from Halifax addresses a number of aspects of suicide, including prevention. The bill would provide for better training of professionals in the field, better media coverage, and support for research to prevent suicide and better identify risk groups. The bill focuses on collaboration with community organizations and stakeholders in the first nations who already have expertise in the area. It encourages the communities, provinces and cities to work together to prevent suicide. The bill also recognizes the importance of changing attitudes, breaking taboos and being able to speak openly about suicide.

Furthermore, for all of these reasons, countries like Australia, the United Kingdom, Sweden, Norway and the United States have all established national strategies. Canada is one of the few industrialized countries that does not yet have such a strategy. But the clock is ticking. Every day, as we have heard many times, 10 people commit suicide in this country. Every year, 3,500 people choose to end their lives. We must take action. A national strategy would allow us to prioritize listening, helping and offering compassion, and to help those who are suffering across the country.

This is a critical issue, and the elected members of this House must stand united and adopt the motion moved by the Liberals.

We have a responsibility to address this problem. We also have the means to help people in distress. Now it is up to the government to show its political will to take positive and concrete action and get involved in developing and implementing this national suicide prevention strategy that is so crucial and so urgent. We can choose to build a more positive and just society. Let us do it.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for highlighting the dramatic reduction in suicides in Quebec. That is a great story that we need to build upon. She also mentioned a number of the NGOs who are doing good work in regard to suicide prevention.

I recently had the honour of working with a group doing online work in suicide prevention called Your Life Counts, which young people can access on the Internet. I mentioned Dave Batters in my previous remarks. His wife, Denise, has done a lot of good work on this. People can search Dave Batters on YouTube to find a 30 second clip that will help us increase awareness as it relates to suicide prevention. I would encourage my colleagues and those who may be watching to take advantage of that.

What role does the member think it is important for new technology to play? It is important from my perspective to get beyond the pamphlets and the round tables, although they are good, and start to embrace some of the modern technology that is at our fingertips to reach people instantly, especially those in our northern and remote communities where they may have access to those kinds of resources but not to the traditional resources that we are used to here.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member across the way for his question.

That is a very appropriate proposal given how youth embrace new technologies and how accessible they are.

However, we cannot forget that this is a human issue and we need to have support workers who can provide youth with tools as well as offer help and active listening. We also cannot forget that networks do not always reach the regions. High-speed Internet is not currently available throughout the country, particularly in the regions.

These issues need to be dealt with and support workers need to be on site so that they can speak face-to-face with and provide friendly help to these people who are already so isolated.

We must not accentuate the isolation felt by the youth facing these issues, although virtual help is another option. These measures need to be accessible to youth.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for her speech because she expanded on the issue by also mentioning seniors and the homeless. I think she as the first to mention these groups. It is important to recognize that this is an overall problem. Yes, some groups suffer more than others, but it affects everyone, and that is important to note. I want to thank her for bringing it up.

Many people are affected by this. We often talk about mental health but sometimes it is just a moment of weakness in a person's life story. And it leads some to commit the irreparable.

Can my colleague tell me how she sees the federal government's involvement in this partnership—because I have difficulty talking about leadership—with the provinces and stakeholders to help tackle the problem?

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Denise Savoie]

The hon. member for Beauharnois—Salaberry has only one minute left.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for the question.

Indeed, the federal government could invest in implementation measures, in treatment programs and in giving a little more power to the people who are already working on the ground, but do not have enough funding.

There are not enough school psychologists. There are not enough street outreach workers to help homeless people who need help often, see no solution to their problems and simply need a little one-time assistance to rebuild their hope and courage and regain control of their lives. We need to recognize the important work being done by these people through financial assistance or prevention programs that provide more measures and more practical solutions.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Madam Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Etobicoke North.

The motion today frames the issue of suicide as more than a personal tragedy but as a serious public health issue. That, perhaps, is what we want to talk about. I do not think anyone in this Parliament today would say that suicide is not important. I do not think anyone would say that this is not a real issue that we should all care about. I think we all do.

What we are trying to talk about is that this is something that requires the same kind of initiative that was undertaken when we looked at the Canadian partnership against cancer, which was to encourage, fund and support coordination of cancer care in Canada.

Cancer is a physical disease but perhaps the federal government could bring about a supporting and coordinating structure. Given that suicide crosses every age group, ethnic group, gender and socio-economic lines, it is a number one issue. When we know that it is the third leading cause of death for adult males in Canada, we need to look upon this as an urgent and a serious public health problem that requires this kind of federal leadership to bring it together.

The thing about suicide is that it has been hidden in the shadows for far too long. Everyone is afraid to talk about suicide. The reason is that people believe that if we talk about it, it will encourage others to commit suicide. Everyone talks about the contagion of suicide, the copycat of suicide, but we well know that when we talk about it and discuss the suicidal ideation, the idea, the thought of suicide crossed one's mind at some point in time is not unusual.

In fact, 42% of adults say that the thought of suicide has crossed their mind within the last five days. We know this is something we think about. However, what are the multiple causes that come to bear on this issue that we need to look at and pull together?

Many provinces have anti-suicide strategies and some do not. The point is that this whole issue has been fragmented across the country. It depends on what weight certain provinces put on it, but if we can deal with cancer as a physical ailment, look at a pan-Canadian strategy for cancer and fund it federally, then we need to be able to talk about the fact that suicide needs to be treated in the same manner.

As a physician, it saddens me that I do not know enough about suicide. I have had patients who have committed suicide and patients who have attempted suicide. I sometimes felt powerless because I was not able to see the early warning signs and symptoms that I should have been able to recognize. We know that many people who are successful in committing suicide or who have attempted suicide are often people who, on the surface, seem to be successful and bubbly, people we would never think of.

We need to do a lot of work on this issue. With a pan-Canadian strategy, we could look at the issue of research. There are so many factors that lead to the issue of suicide.

The Canadian Institutes of Health Research is doing some work on this and it says that there may be some genetic factors. It may very well be that we need to look at this from a genome point of view. There may be some genetic components here.

Sometimes there may be an underlying mental illness or an underlying disability, whether it is a mental disability or not, where people feel that they cannot be normal. They do not well at school. Maybe they have dyslexia or a learning disability. They are afraid. They do not want to speak about it. They go through life feeling unnatural and abnormal.

The high rates, five times the normal rate of suicide in Canada, are among aboriginal youth and seven times more among Inuit youth. We see it five times more among people within the LGBT community, especially youth in the LGBT community.

We know that one part of the issue of suicide is the psychological component. It is the concept that if one is different, one must be ashamed of the difference. Sometimes it is the hopelessness of it all combined with bullying. We know that 350,000 episodes of bullying occur every month in this country, and some of it can lead to suicide.

We know that suicide is impulsive. We know, for instance, that somebody may be thinking about suicide for the biological, social or psychological reasons that cause suicide attempts to occur, but sometimes it is impulsive. Seventy per cent of Canadians who had thought about or attempted suicide say that they attempted suicide an hour after a trigger pushed them over the limit. Some 25% have said that within five minutes after a trigger pushed them over the limit, they actually attempted suicide.

I think the problem is that we do not see mental illness as a real problem. Unless it is a psychosis like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, there is a tendency to think that mental illness is an issue of personal will. It is a pejorative thing that one cannot cope or that it is psychological. The term “psychological” alone is pejorative. It means that a person is less capable of coping, and we know that is not true.

As I said before, we know there are biological, social and psychological factors. If we someone came to us, perhaps a friend, and said that when they ran or when something happened, they got a left-sided chest pain, we would tell them to go and see a doctor because it might be a sign of heart disease. However, when someone tells us that they are incapable of coping or when we see that they suffer from a mental problems or psychological issues, we think it is something to ignore and that those people have less will power than we do or are less able to cope with their problems. However, we know that this is not true.

If a person went to emergency as an attempted suicide, triage would cause them to be seen immediately, just as with a chest pain. The difference is that if the person with a chest pain had a cardiogram that showed an early sign of an infarction in the heart muscle, that person would be immediately admitted. They would be given a bed and follow-up. The follow-up would continue, and the person would have multiple tests.

However, a person who goes into hospital for attempted suicide is taken care of only in the sense that their stomach is pumped or whatever is needed to keep them alive is done, but there are no treatment beds, or very few. There is no place to send them. There are no referrals. We do not have enough health care professionals. Psychologists are not covered under the Canada Health Act, yet they are an essential part of this issue.

When we look at the problem of suicide, we need to look at how to link all these pieces to fit together. That is why we need federal leadership: to pull the pieces together.

For instance, we need to look at the education and training of the people who are the first line. In cases of youth suicide, we need to look at who a young person could meet, such as the school coach or school counsellor. Many are not trained to recognize the early signs and symptoms of suicide.

However, we know that if someone in a school commits suicide, it is important in terms of prevention to take action to deal with the bereavement process immediately and to talk about it. A professional is needed to talk with the young people in school to prevent those who are at high risk from committing suicide because of what happened to a class member or a friend of theirs. We know there is a high risk of that, not because these people are less capable or less able to deal with the trauma, but because we know there are some people who, for biological, sociological and other reasons, may be more at risk and feel that is the way to go.

These are the things we need to talk about. We need to talk about developing counselling in schools and developing an ability to deal with this in schools, as well as how we train family practitioners and public health nurses to recognize the early signs and symptoms.

For instance, today we had Mrs. Richardson talking about her daughter's suicide a year ago. This is a prime example.

Here was a bright, brilliant athlete, a girl who did well in school and seemed bubbly on the surface. What her mother said today in the press conference was really telling. She said, “I want us to talk about suicide every day in our homes, at the dinner table, in the malls, everywhere”. What I—

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Denise Savoie]

Order, please. The hon. member may elaborate in questions and comments. Her time has elapsed.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Kitchener—Conestoga.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Madam Speaker, Margaret Somerville, an ethicist at McGill University, has said, “Hope is the oxygen of the human spirit; without it our spirit dies...” That encapsulates, in a very real sense, the despair that those who may consider ending their lives by suicide might be facing.

My colleague mentioned the importance of dealing with the social, biological and psychological factors as we deal with suicide prevention, and I agree with her 100%. I am wondering if she would agree that we could add a spiritual dimension. For many in this room and in aboriginal communities, there is a spiritual dimension to providing hope that far too often we neglect.

I am wondering if she would comment on her perception as it relates to the need to recognize the spiritual dimension for those who may be facing this despair in their lives.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Madam Speaker, that is a very important question. Some suicide prevention strategies have to be specific, but they also have to be culturally sensitive and sensitive to spiritual and religious ideation. They have to be able to deal with the various cultural, religious and spiritual areas that inform how we deal with things, see the world and feel we fit into the world. That is very important.

[Sana Hassainia, NDP, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Madam Speaker, I would like to begin by congratulating my hon. colleague on her speech.

As we know, the United Nations and the World Health Organization recognize suicide as a serious public health problem and a priority issue. Many industrialized countries, including Australia and the United States, have national strategies than have proven effective. Canada does not have a national strategy. A commission was established in 2007, the the Mental Health Commission of Canada.

Does my hon. colleague believe that this commission is enough to ensure adequate suicide prevention? Can this commission take the place of a national strategy?

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Madam Speaker, it is interesting that 30 years ago Canada was a world leader and had the expertise on this issue. We in Canada--not a province, but Canada--held the very first symposia on this issue. The world listened, and 30 years ago countries of the world, such as the United Kingdom, Australia and Germany, picked up this Canadian movement and moved on it. We never did.

As the hon. member for Toronto Centre said earlier today, this is not a blame on anybody. Different political parties formed government, and all tended not to deal with it, I think for the simple reason that we do not see mental illness being as important as physical illness. Mental illness is still not seen as a medically necessary service. We still do not see it that way.

Until we recognize mental illness as part of the continuum of health that is physical, mental, social, psychological and other things, we will not understand that we need to do something about it and we will not follow the extremely good example that we started 30 years ago, after which different levels of government let the ball drop. That is the sadness of the whole thing.

It does not mean we should continue. We should start doing something now. We have the expertise and are in fact able to do this very well.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Madam Speaker, my hon. colleague noted that psychologists are not paid for under the Canada Health Act, yet psychiatrists are. That does not make much sense, because psychologists would be less expensive. I want to ask the member about that and also about the research into genetic links that has been done in this area.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Madam Speaker, the hon. member touched on the important thing, which is that we cannot continue to see suicide as only a psychological issue. We know that there are biological issues. The Canadian Institutes of Health Research are telling us that there may be epigenetic links. We know, for instance, that in families in which someone has committed suicide, there is a five to eight times greater risk of suicide occurring among the children of the parent who committed suicide. We know that is true.

However, it is important to note that psychologists are not considered health providers or paid for under our public health care system because we do not see suicide as an illness, and we need to start looking upon it as a real physical illness.