Debates of Sept. 29th, 2011

Opposition Motion—Canadian Economy

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Madam Speaker, I listened with interest to the comments from the member opposite. At different points she talked about encouraging private investment and encouraging investment in public infrastructure. I would remind the member and her party that there has never been a time in Canadian history where more investment has gone into public infrastructure than in the past number of years since our government took office.

Regarding private sector investment, we have introduced a number of initiatives to encourage that, including the accelerated capital cost allowance. It makes a huge difference by allowing companies to invest in critical infrastructure that would help them improve their efficiency and help them remain competitive internationally.

We have also introduced the EI credit which provides small businesses with a credit when hiring.

With regard to business tax reductions, I understand there are a number of NDP members in Windsor, so perhaps the following quote from The Windsor Star would be helpful to the member and her party:

In short, all the evidence suggests corporate tax cuts lead to jobs and investment...

The government should push forward with lower taxes for businesses. Why would the NDP not want Canadian businesses to invest and create more jobs for Canadians who really want to work?

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Madam Speaker, I respectfully ask the member to show us the evidence because we have not seen any. We have seen that unemployment is not as bad as it was at the depth of the recession. That is only because the opposition forced the Conservatives, who were sleepwalking into a recession, to invest in the economy.

It is very nice that members have built gazebos in their ridings. That is all well and good, but we are talking about strategic infrastructure investment such as urban transit and greening the economy. We are talking about investments that will make our economy more competitive, more productive and most importantly will put Canadians back to work.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Madam Speaker, it is very important that we are clear on the point that there one-quarter million more unemployed people today in Canada than when the Conservative government took office. From day one that party has been saying the issue is jobs, jobs, jobs.

I look at the buy American provisions that have been put into place. The government has dropped the ball. Liberals recognize the value and importance of trade. However, the NDP in Ontario is now advocating a buy Ontario policy.

I would like to know what the federal NDP's policy is on the buy American provisions. Do NDP members believe, as Liberals do, that we need to free up trade? Trade creates thousands of jobs every year. Do they support free trade or do the NDP members agree with their Ontario counterparts who say there should be a buy Ontario policy?

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Madam Speaker, obviously Canada is a trading nation. We support our trading partners and believe trade is an important part of our economy. Approximately 70% to 75% of our exports go to the U.S.

We believe in fair trade, that which has a level playing field, not the kind of trade that allows Americans to out negotiate Conservative negotiators, or that protects American jobs while leaving ours vulnerable. We have seen the outcome of that, which was the loss of thousands of good manufacturing jobs in this country.

When will the government stand up for good quality jobs? When will it stop the migration of these jobs south of the border or to other parts of the world? When will it defend good quality Canadian jobs?

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Madam Speaker, I congratulate the member for Parkdale—High Park on her realistic assessment of the state of the Canadian economy. She put forth realistic and achievable goals of what is required to create jobs.

She pointed out that investing in infrastructure has five times the impact and benefit than corporate tax cuts have. One of those infrastructure issues is housing. What better way is there to meet a social need and provide high quality, good paying jobs than to use Canadian lumber to build houses? There is a growing crisis in many cities, that being the lack of affordable housing?

I ask the member to expand on the need for housing as a job stimulant and how that is good for society overall.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Madam Speaker, the Conference Board of Canada released a report last week stating that the Canadian economy is producing a more unequal society wherein the rich are getting richer and the middle class is falling further behind. One reason for that is the lack of affordable housing.

We have a perfect opportunity. Interest rates are at almost historic lows. There is a tremendous need for affordable housing. Almost two million Canadians are looking for work. Let us put those together. Let us invest in affordable housing that is energy efficient, that helps meet Canadian housing needs and puts Canadians to work. That would also help grow our economy.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Madam Speaker, as I listened to the member's speech I heard over and over again about what is wrong in the country. Therefore, I will point out what leading economists have said with respect to Canada's economy.

Senior BMO economist Sal Guatieri pointed out that Canada is in a much better situation than many countries and that our government has a much smaller budget deficit. That is critical in light of the global scene right now.

The senior vice-president and chief economist of the Scotiabank group said, “Canada is the best place to be and almost everything I look at screams that out to me”. That was taken from The Journal of Commerce.

I hear this rhetoric all the time about how badly we are doing in Canada. However, the leading economists say that we are doing very well.

Manitoba NDP minister of finance Rosann Wowchuk has said, “...if the federal government reduces corporate taxes, it will make a difference for our businesses and certainly they will take advantage of those cuts”.

As well, others from the member's own party have agreed that our government is doing a great job.

How does the member square what she is saying here in the House of Commons with what the leading economists are saying?

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for her fine work and her question.

It is absolutely correct that our deficit and debt situation is not as bad as it is in other countries. In fact, it is much better than it is in other countries in the G8. Therefore, why is the Minister of Finance focused on deficit reduction as though that were our main problem? That is exactly the point.

The issue for us, the major challenge, is not the debt in this country; it is job creation. I am sure she knows that in her community, youth unemployment is double the unemployment of others in this country, and I am sure she knows the problems that leads to. We do not want to be locking up young people, putting them in jail, having to build more prisons, which, sadly, the government is heading toward. We want to create good quality jobs for our youth so that they can have a hopeful future. That is what we in the NDP are standing up for: Canadian youth and families.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to be here today to once again discuss our government's priority, which is the economy and job creation.

I thank the Speaker for the opportunity to speak today on this very odd motion brought forward by the NDP.

I say “odd” because in it the NDP talks about its alleged concern about jobs, pensions, infrastructure and the economy. I say “alleged” because when it matters most, when the NDP actually has to vote on legislation or a budget that supports jobs, pensions, infrastructure and the economy, the NDP has always voted against.

Every single time, at every opportunity, the NDP has been a negative and ideologically rigid force voting against Canada's economic plan and its next phase. Indeed, let us only go back a few months to when our Conservative government introduced the next phase of Canada's economic action plan.

This is a positive plan for jobs and economic growth. It is focused on helping to boost the economy and on helping families during these turbulent economic times by flowing $1 billion in federal funding to provinces and territories for infrastructure projects in 2011-12; helping manufacturers by extending the accelerated capital cost allowance for two years; extending the eco-energy retrofit program to help create more energy efficient homes while generating local economic activity; renewing EI pilot projects, which would help the unemployed; extending work-sharing agreements to help protect jobs; creating a hiring credit for small business to help create jobs; and many more positive measures.

This is a plan that economists, business organizations, public interest groups and commentators applauded as a positive plan to create jobs and promote economic growth.

Indeed, let us listen to what some of them have actually said, because I listened to my colleague moments ago make up facts about what she suggests was said. I am going read the actual quotes so that there is absolutely no question in Canadians' minds about what was actually said.

Let us listen to the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters, who said it was:

....critical to sustaining Canada's economic recovery.

What about the Certified Management Accountants of Canada? This group said it will:

....contribute to keeping Canada globally competitive and ensuring that the private sector can fully contribute to economic growth and job creation.

Better yet, let us listen to what Canadians said on May 2, when they spoke with their ballots and elected a strong and stable national majority Conservative government to implement that plan.

However, the NDP ignored the experts, ignored the priorities of Canadians for jobs and growth, and decided to vote against the next phase of Canada's economic action plan, as it did at the height of the global economic recession, which the NDP seems to forget occurred when it opposed Canada's economic action plan. The NDP said “no” yet again and showed the type of rigid economic ideological thinking that Canadians do not need.

In doing that, the NDP also voted against a plan to support jobs and the economy, a plan that has worked, a plan that has in fact helped Canada's economy remain the most envied in the entire industrialized world during the turbulent economic times that we face.

Members need not take my word for it. Let us listen to some more quotes. Let us listen to Scotiabank economist Warren Jestin, who recently commented:

If you want to live anywhere in the world in today's global economy, Canada is the place you want to be.

What about Queen's University economics professor Tom Courchene? He stated:

It is true that we are in excellent financial and fiscal shape if you compare us with any of our trading partners...

I know the NDP likes to twist the facts, often for the sole purpose of talking down the Canadian economy and belittling Canada's economic leadership on the world stage, so I want to get some plain, indisputable facts on the table for the NDP and Canadians at home to dispel some of this absolute misinformation perpetrated by the NDP. These are facts from well-recognized and independent sources that Canadians can verify for themselves online, something that I challenge the NDP to do here today.

Here is the first fact: both the IMF and the OECD project that Canada will have among the strongest rates of economic growth in the G7 in the years ahead.

Here is another fact: Canada has created nearly 600,000 new jobs since July 2009, with over 80% of them being full time. That is the strongest job creation record in the G7.

Fact: For the fourth straight year, the World Economic Forum rated our banking system the world's best.

Fact: According to the IMF, Canada has, and will continue to have, by far the lowest total government net debt to GDP ratio in the entire G7.

Fact: Unlike the case with other countries, Canada's credit rating has recently been renewed at the best level by major agencies. Indeed, Moody's recently renewed Canada's AAA credit rating, praising our “...economic resiliency, very high government financial strength and a low susceptibility to event risk“.

Another fact is that our Conservative government's economic leadership has been repeatedly praised by everyone from economists to global leaders. Here is what BMO economist Doug Porter actually said in the finance committee the other day. Again, this is a quote, not a paraphrase, not a change or a twist of facts; these are his actual words:

Compared to policy-making in the rest of the world, Canada's economic policy-making has been exemplary. I don't think there's been a significant misstep in recent years.

This is what British Prime Minister David Cameron said in this very House only last week:

In the last few years, Canada has got every major decision right. Look at the facts. Not a single Canadian bank fell or faltered during the global banking crisis. Canada got to grips with its deficit and was running surpluses and paying down the debt before the recession, fixing the roof while the sun was shining. Your economic leadership has helped the Canadian economy to weather the global storms far better than many of your international competitors.

While the global economy may be turbulent and while too many Canadians are looking for work, Canadians can rest assured that our Conservative government has done, and will continue to do, everything possible to ensure we are in the best position to meet the challenges ahead. That is what Canadians want their government to do: stay focused on jobs and the economy, keep taxes low and respect their hard-earned tax dollars.

Our Conservative government gets that, and Canadians understand that we get that. That is why they gave us a majority government.

For instance, we, like Canadians, understand that small businesses are the heartbeat of the Canadian economy, and by helping them grow, we are helping create jobs in our local communities. That is why, in the next phase of Canada's economic action plan, we introduced a hiring credit for small business. This innovative job-creating measure will help an estimated 525,000 small businesses by giving them a leg up to expand and increase hiring.

The Canadian Federation of Independent Business labelled it an important step “...to enhance job creation and recognize the economic contributions of small businesses in Canada”.

The NDP members, though, despite what they say today, actually voted against helping small businesses create jobs. That should not come as a great surprise, for the NDP has a very different take on the economy compared to our Conservative government.

While we are committed to a low-tax plan to help the economy and to help both large and small employers grow, the NDP believes in a tired tax-and-spend philosophy for the Canadian economy. The NDP believes in a far-left economic philosophy that claims Canadian families and businesses are just not paying enough taxes and need to send more of their hard-earned money to big government in Ottawa.

In fact the Liberal finance critic, the member for Kings—Hants, publicly proclaimed to the The Chronicle-Herald newspaper this past year that Canadians should be wary of the Marxist-Leninist views of the federal NDP when it comes to the economy.

While I will not repeat that sentiment completely, I will again point to some facts on the NDP's record on taxes for Canadians to consider.

First and foremost, unlike the NDP, our Conservative government believes that leaving more money in the pockets of hard-working Canadians is the right thing to do, and we have the record to prove it.

Since coming to office in 2006, we have cut over 120 taxes, reducing taxes in every way government that collects them: personal, consumption, business, excise taxes and more. We removed over one million low-income Canadians completely from the tax rolls.

We reduced the overall tax burden to its lowest level in nearly 50 years. We introduced the tax free savings account, the most important personal savings vehicle since RRSPs. We lowered the GST from 7% to 5%. The overall total savings for a typical family is over $3,000.

The NDP, on the other hand, has a proven record of pushing a high tax agenda by voting no again and again in the House of Commons against our tax relief. It has constantly protested and mocked our efforts to leave more money in the pockets of everyday Canadian families to help them pay the bills and to help businesses grow our economy.

Indeed, public statements by NDP MPs clearly underline their fundamental belief that Canadian families should be forced to send more and more of their hard-earned money to government. For example, here is what the NDP finance critic, the member for Parkdale—High Park, had to say about our government's GST reduction. She stated, “Cuts to the GST...take us in the wrong direction. I am very proud that our caucus stood opposed to that--”.

Honestly, how many Canadians dealing with the costs of raising their families would appreciate politicians claiming that they are not just proud but very proud that they tried to prevent them from keeping more of their own hard-earned money? Is that the type of high tax thinking we want our politicians to have when it comes to the economy and protecting jobs? Clearly, the answer is a huge no.

As I mentioned earlier, Canada has weathered the global economic recession better than most other countries, but a big part of that has been our low tax plan, a low tax plan that has helped put an average of $3,000 back in the pockets of an average Canadian family. Another aspect of that low tax plan involves leaving more money in the hands of entrepreneurs and businesses to grow and hire more Canadians. Lower taxes make our economy stronger and create good, long-term jobs for today and tomorrow.

The Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters released a report, available online for all to see, confirming lower business taxes mean more jobs. The Canadian Federation of Independent Business unequivocally supports our low tax plan, which its says helps small business. Once again, I am using its words, “unequivocally supports”.

Even our American neighbours have noticed it. Listen to what Iowa Governor Terry Branstad told NBC's Meet the Press only last month. He stated:

The Canadian government has reduced their corporate income tax...I've had companies that I've called on in Chicago to come to Iowa, and they've said, “We like Iowa, but if they don't change the federal corporate income tax, we're probably going to go to Canada”. Now, that's a tragedy when...Canada is now beating us.

Without a doubt, our Conservative government is focused on keeping taxes low and helping create jobs. The NDP wants to raise taxes, which essentially kills jobs. Specifically, as businesses try to deal with global economic turbulence, the NDP wants to slap a huge $10 billion a year tax hike on them as explicitly stated in its platform.

Let us be clear. A $10 billion a year NDP tax hike would mean losing good Canadian jobs and jeopardizing the financial security of hard-working Canadian families. I do not know what world the NDP is living in, but Canadians cannot afford that. They cannot afford higher taxes and they cannot afford the job killing policies of the NDP. The member for Parkdale—High Park may be very proud of the NDP supporting tax hikes, but Canadians are actually very scared.

When it comes to taxes and the economy, our Conservative government's record is clear: lower taxes for a stronger economy. That is what we need. The NDP record is even clearer, higher taxes and more reckless spending, something we do not need.

Moreover, unlike the NDP and this hastily thrown together motion on the economy today, our Conservative government has a well-developed plan for jobs and growth that we have been implementing. Canada's economic action plan and its next phase is that plan. Despite the fact that the NDP voted against it every step of the way, this plan is working and it is getting results. Yes, like other countries, we face global economic headwinds from Europe and the United States, but we are ready and able to address them as we have done so previously.

I would, therefore, encourage all members to stick with the next phase of Canada's economic action plan. Do not listen to the misinformation that is being perpetrated. Look at the facts. As I have challenged the NDP here today, put the facts on the table.

I encourage Canadians to listen to the economists, to global leaders, and to Canadians, when they say, this is the plan to follow, this will keep our country safe, this will protect jobs, and this will create jobs. I encourage them to remain on track with this Conservative government in the interests of this wonderful country of Canada.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Madam Speaker, I think that what we have seen here on display is a kind of a sad partisan approach to something that Canadians really expect us to work together on. Two-thirds of Canadians did not vote for the current government. They are really asking, “What is the government's plan?”

We are saying we have a plan to put Canadians back to work, the two million Canadians who are desperate for a job. I think they expect us to get to work on that, to roll up our sleeves and get to work. The average Canadian family benefits by about $16,000 from the services that they get from various levels of government. All we are proposing is that the government turn its attention to real job creation.

Scotiabank says that Canada may well be the first of the G8 countries to fall into a recession because we are a large trading nation, and that is of real concern to Canadians. Of course, companies would love more tax cuts. They would not argue against them. However, the fact is they are sitting on $500 billion in cash.

I ask the hon. member, why would she want to add to that $5 billion? Why would she not want to invest that money and put Canadians back to work?

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Madam Speaker, I apologize, but I believe my colleague got some of the numbers mixed up. One moment she said it was $500 billion and the next moment she said it was $5 billion. So, I am not quite sure what number she is going to go with. The NDP seems to come up with these numbers from thin air. However, let me give the appropriate numbers.

There have been nearly 600,000 jobs created under this government's watch since the recession hit. This government is committed to ensuring we protect Canadian jobs, ensuring we create Canadian jobs. That is why the next phase of Canada's economic action plan has been put forward in an effort to move that forward.

I need to remind this House of what Catherine Swift, president and CEO of the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, stated when discussing one of the NDP's proposals to double CPP premiums in its efforts to protect jobs. Here is what Catherine Swift in fact said, “That would mean probably about a 60% to 70% increase in premiums from what we understand, and that was very, very worrisome. So any tax breaks that were in the NDP platform were grossly outmatched but what they were going to ding small business on that CPP alone”.

However, she does not talk about the $10 billion tax hike that is going to kill jobs. She does not talk about the fact the NDP wants to raise the GST, and on and on.

I will take another question and address, once again, the great efforts by this government as we move forward on this great economic action plan venture.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Madam Speaker, it is a matter of arithmetic that the latest budget, budget 2011, is a net destroyer of jobs. If we actually look at the numbers in the budget, on the spending side the Conservatives have measures worth $500 million over two years, or only $200 million if we exclude the $300 million given to AECL. So, the measures that they keep boasting about are $200 million to $500 million.

Turn a few pages in the budget and we get to the cuts. What are the cuts over these same two years? Two billion dollars. They are cutting $2 billion and they are adding $200 million to $500 million so, obviously, net, they are destroying more jobs than they are creating.

This is wrong-headed at this time. If we look to what the IMF has said, if we look to what the chief economist of BMO has said, it is not appropriate to destroy jobs at a time when the world economy is likely heading back into a recession.

My question for the parliamentary secretary is, how can she possibly justify budget 2011 which destroys far more jobs than it creates?

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for the question and I respect the way he is doing his math, but I do not agree with it.

When doing calculations, one cannot just take little bits and pieces from a calculation to force the answer to agree with what one's political position is. One has to look at the document and the hiring credit for small businesses that would create jobs. Look at what we are doing for the manufacturing sector that has, unfortunately, suffered. We are the party that is trying to help it by extending its accelerated capital cost allowance for two more years. We are also increasing funding for the National Research Council's industrial research assistance program. This is something we believe will help us move forward to create more jobs.

If one looks at the document that we have put before Parliament, it has measures to help seniors, families and businesses. It has measures to help every sector to move forward. It is going to protect and create jobs.

We are not immune from other factors outside our borders, but we have a plan that would get us through. We are the envy of the world and we are going to stick to that plan.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Madam Speaker, I thank the parliamentary secretary for a very well thought out and explained reaction to this bizarre motion that we are dealing with today. I am not quite sure whether NDP economic policy reflects Karl Marx or Groucho Marx.

If we had gone the route that the NDP is suggesting and significantly increased debt and spending, would we not very much be in the same kind of crisis that we see many European countries in today? Would that not be very wrong-headed for Canada?

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Madam Speaker, I want to thank my new colleague, who has been working very hard on this very issue, and he is absolutely right.

When we look at the global economy and what has happened outside of our borders in Europe and the United States, we see that they are in a debt crisis. It is exactly what the British Prime Minister, David Cameron, had to say in this House last week. They are in a debt crisis because they have overspent. They need to create jobs and bolster their economies. We are glad to see that today there has been an agreement among European nations to move forward with some plans to address some of these problems.

If we were to raise taxes, as suggested by the official opposition, the NDP, a $10 billion tax hike on our businesses would be passed along by way of job cuts, by way of increased prices for consumers, and Canadians would suffer. If we were to raise the GST, the same thing would happen. It is not the time to be raising taxes on Canadians in this very turbulent economic time.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Madam Speaker, I must come back to the issue of tax cuts for large corporations. I wonder if my colleague across the floor could comment on the fact that the liquid assets of large corporations seem to be increasing, yet investments are stagnating. Does this not illustrate just how ineffective tax cuts to large corporations are?

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question. I do not expect him to take the parliamentary secretary's word alone as proof. I would like to read my colleague a quote from the Conseil du patronat du Québec on the issue he just mentioned:

We believe that the federal government's budget 2011-2012 is a responsible plan that stays on course regarding orientations announced in the previous years.... The tax cuts for businesses already planned are not questioned, which should encourage private investments in our country, ones that are needed.

This budget creates an environment that promotes economic development without reducing transfers to individuals, businesses or other governments, and without raising taxes or tariffs...

This press release was issued by the council on March 22, 2011. The hon. member is from Quebec and he should listen to the Conseil du patronat du Québec.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Madam Speaker, I stand today to speak to the motion put forward by the member for Parkdale—High Park. I will be sharing my time with my excellent colleague, the member for York West, who also serves as the Liberal critic for seniors and pensions.

The motion calls on the government to adopt a real plan to promote job creation, to take immediate action to fix the crumbling infrastructure and to maintain the full public sector contribution to the Canadian economy so as to avert another serious recession.

Time and again, we hear the Conservatives bragging about the job situation in Canada. It shows how out of touch they are with many Canadians. Under the Conservatives, unemployment is actually up. In fact, it is harder to find a job today than it was when the Conservatives first took office. That is because, under the Conservatives, job creation in Canada is simply not keeping up with our population growth.

Today, 1.4 million Canadians are out of work and looking for a job. That is 344,000 more unemployed Canadians compared with just before the recession. That is 213,000 more unemployed Canadians than when the Conservatives first took office. Canada's unemployment rate is now 7.3% and that does not include the thousands of Canadians who have simply given up looking for work. We do not see any real plan from the Conservatives to create jobs.

Our national employment figures also do not tell the whole story. If we go into regions of the country, for instance the Maritimes and Ontario and Quebec, we see a very different picture from what we see in resource-rich provinces like Saskatchewan and Alberta.

As an example, let us look at London, Ontario, which is an area represented by both Conservative and NDP members of Parliament. In London, there are 6,800 fewer net jobs now compared with before the recession. There are 10,700 more people out of work and the unemployment rate is now 9.3%. That is almost three points higher than it was before the recession. Yet, we hear the Conservatives telling these unemployed Canadians that everything is fine, when, in fact, unemployed Canadians and their families are suffering and struggling.

In my own economic region of the Annapolis Valley in Nova Scotia, the counties of Hants, Kings and Annapolis are represented by me as a Liberal member of Parliament and by the member for West Nova, a Conservative member of Parliament. This Statistics Canada catchment area has 5,500 fewer net jobs today compared with before the recession in 2008. There are now 2,200 more people who are unemployed and looking for work and the local unemployment rate has gone from 5% to almost 9%. In regions like these, too many Canadians have lost full-time jobs and have seen their full-time jobs, in many cases, replaced by part-time work. It is hard to pay bills, put food on the table, take care of a family or save for retirement or university or college for their children with part-time work and no benefits.

One way Canadians have tried to make ends meet is to extend credit lines. Now the average Canadian family owes more than $1.50 for every dollar of annual income. People are feeling squeezed and that is with interest rates at historic lows. They are scared to death to think of what will happen when interest rates inevitably, in time, increase. That is a reality faced by too many Canadians. What is taking place under the Conservatives' watch is that this situation is getting worse and the Conservatives are become more out of touch with reality.

The Conservatives are putting our economy and the jobs of Canadians at even more risk with their new-found ideological attachment to austerity measures. The Conservatives are doing this, despite the advice they are getting from the experts.

Dr. Sherry Cooper is the chief economist at BMO Capital Markets. Earlier this week, she scolded the Conservative government, when she said that its:

...misplaced belief that the road to economic prosperity is paved by near-term fiscal tightening, as espoused by...[the] Prime Minister...shows we have learned nothing from Herbert Hoover’s response to the Great Depression.

Because of the Conservatives' stubbornness and misguided approach, Dr. Cooper writes that we are:

...we are in danger of repeating the deflationary policies that caused the 1929 stock market crash and the Great Depression.

Instead, she called for counter-cyclical fiscal policy, while what the Conservatives are doing, which I guess is the only thing we can call it, is a counter-Keynesian fiscal policy. It is not just that the Conservatives are ignoring the advice of the economists. They are doing exactly the opposite of what the economists are calling for during these tough times.

I sit with the member of Parliament for Markham—Unionville who is a former bank economist with the Royal Bank of Canada. He and his colleagues globally agree that it is a mistake right now, during a perilous economic time when the demand simply is not there to fuel growth, for governments to actually cut spending and reduce demand.

It is interesting that in the first three years of office, the Conservatives actually increased spending by 18%, three times the rate of inflation, and they put Canada into deficit with their massive spending increases even before the recession began. During the good times, when the market was providing all kinds of growth for the Canadian economy, the Conservatives were spending. Now, during the tough times, when the market is contracting and investments are drying up, the Conservatives are cutting. It makes no sense and there is no economist who agrees with what they are doing.

The Conservatives spent the cupboard bare during the good times and they eliminated the rainy day fund that was set aside by the previous Liberal government. They wasted taxpayer money on everything from partisan advertising and high-priced consultants, to the G8 and G20 billion dollar boondoggle and now, with the economy teetering on the edge of a recession, the Conservatives finally have discovered austerity. This approach ramping up spending in the good times and cutting spending when Canadians are out work is wrong-headed.

As The Economist magazine September 10 edition says:

The immediate priority should be supporting demand—or at least not doing harm to it. ...the main cause of the current high joblessness is the severity of the last recession and the weakness of the subsequent recovery. ... But the main culprit is a collective, premature shift to fiscal austerity by governments.

It noted further:

Some forms of stimulus are better than others at supporting employment. Some infrastructure spending, such as building roads and repairing schools.... So do tax incentives that cut the cost of hiring, particularly for extra new workers....

All of that makes sense. I noticed that it did not mention fake lakes as an appropriate stimulus investment.

Here in Canada, the Conservatives have done the opposite of what the economists are saying. They are actually putting Canada at risk and making the situation we are facing worse. Instead of reducing payroll taxes, a known job-killer, last January the Conservatives actually increased payroll taxes and they did this at a time of high unemployment with 1.5 million Canadians already out of work.

The Conservative government is ignoring the fact that, with its austerity policies, it is making it harder for out-of-work Canadians to find a job. The government ignores that increasing payroll taxes and increasing the cost of hiring new workers is actually contributing to Canada's stubbornly high unemployment rates.

Now, at a time when the economy is weakening and consumer confidence is at its lowest since at the depths of the last recession, the Conservatives want to cut public investments and take money out of the economy. The Liberal Party believes that with the economy on the brink of another recession now is not the time to cut public investment and take money out of the economy.

There is a difference between the Liberal position and the NDP position when it comes to expenditure review. We support the concept of public expenditure review, particularly in times of economic growth when public expenditure cuts can be conducted without hurting the economy or the loss of significant numbers of jobs for Canadians.

At the cabinet expenditure review committee, part of Paul Martin's government, when the member for Markham—Unionville was chair of the committee, we identified $11 billion of savings. We did this as ministers by examining each line item of public spending throughout agencies and departments. Unlike the Conservatives, we did not outsource our responsibilities as ministers to high priced consultants at $90,000 a day. We took the process seriously. We were totally accountable and we did it with the support of the public service in an open and transparent manner. We published a detailed breakdown and explanation of the savings on a website for all Canadians to see. Again, we did this so that taxpayer money could be reinvested in priorities, including health care and infrastructure. We were able to sign a deal with the Canadian provinces, the largest single investment of federal money into health care in the history of Canada, of $41 billion in 2004.

We differ with the NDP on some other issues, including trade. We differ with the NDP in terms of public-private partnerships and the capacity to renew infrastructure, but we do agree broadly--

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Denise Savoie]

Order, please. I must call the member to order.

Questions and comments. The hon. member for Parkdale—High Park.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Madam Speaker, I want to probe my colleague's comments about a review of public expenditures. I am sure he knows that the New Democrats are supporting the ongoing review of public expenditures to ensure that our money is well spent.

What we find challenging is that the government has suddenly picked a figure of $4 billion out of thin air and now it is hiring an outside company for $90,000 a day to somehow justify what it should be doing on an ongoing basis, which is ensuring that Canadians get good value for their tax dollars.

Would the member agree that this is just part of the responsibility of being in government, as opposed to having it contracted out to some outside firm?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Madam Speaker, before I answer the member's question, I will say that her motion today is quite a reasonable one. While we may have some differences with the NDP on the use of private capital and expertise in terms of infrastructure investments, in terms of trade policy and on several other economic issues, this motion is a very centrist and sensible motion, and I thank her for that.

In terms of the NDP position on expenditure review, I can remember when we were in government, I can remember serving on that committee and I can remember the NDP not being favourable toward that expenditure review process at that time.

The reality is that there is a responsibility for government on an ongoing basis to respect tax dollars, but the challenge we have right now with the government's approach to expenditure review when we are teetering on the edge of recession is that it can actually push Canada over the line into recession with just one more quarter of negative growth.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Madam Speaker, I listened carefully to the speech by the member for Kings—Hants but I do not think I heard whether the official position of the Liberals will be to support this motion or not.

Maybe the member would take this opportunity to be quite clear with the House on whether this is the start of the Liberal-NDP coalition on motions in this House or whether the Liberal Party will be voting against this motion?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Madam Speaker, I would urge someone in the House to give the member a new earpiece because his obviously is not working. I did say that we will be supporting the motion today. For instance, we do believe, as a Liberal Party, that investments in infrastructure now would be timely and that modernizing transportation and energy infrastructure in Canada makes a lot of sense.

We would differ, quite possibly, with the NDP in terms of where some of that capital would come from. We believe that CPP, AIMCo, OMERS, the teachers pension plan and private equity capital can be used to invest in public-private partnerships to facilitate that, along with public money.

However, we do support this motion, which is what I said at least twice during my remarks.

[Ted Hsu, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance bragged about the Conservative government taking a million people off the tax rolls.

I noticed that we have a one-quarter million more people unemployed. So, I know how some of those people got off the tax rolls.

Does the member for Kings—Hants think that the Conservative government is on track to take more people off the tax rolls in this way?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Madam Speaker, the member, an exceptional new member to this House, I may add, with a strong economic and finance background, has raised a good point.

Many of the Canadians who have been taken off the tax rolls by the Conservatives have been taken off the tax rolls because they lost their full-time jobs and they are struggling. In fact, unemployment is higher than it was three years ago. There are more Canadians looking for work and there are more Canadians struggling to make ends meet. If that is the way Conservatives want to take people off the tax rolls, the Liberal Party certainly does not support that.