Debates of Oct. 4th, 2012

Faster Removal of Foreign Criminals Act

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I will begin by handing out compliments to my colleagues from Newton—North Delta and Saint-Lambert, who are doing absolutely remarkable work on issues that are not always easy. I will continue in the same vein as my colleague from Vancouver Kingsway and talk about certain aspects of this bill. Speaking of compliments, we said that we will vote in favour of this bill at second reading—let the members opposite take note of this—because we want to study it further in committee.

I must say that, based on everything I have been hearing for the past few days, studying this in committee will be a daunting task. After a quick glance at this bill, it is easy to see that it is flawed. Imagine all the work an in-depth study will entail.

As an aside, the hon. member for Vancouver Kingsway has many newcomers in his riding. My riding of Gatineau does not. It is a typical Quebec riding made up of 93% or 94% francophones, whites and young families. One might think that Gatineau does not have any problems regarding immigration or refugees, but my riding assistant might beg to differ. I tip my hat to her. Being so busy, I do not see much of her. Aline Séguin does absolutely incredible work on files that are not easy. When we get the chance to sit down together and talk, you would be surprised at the things that I learn. In my riding made up of 93% or 94% francophones, whites and young families, the majority of our files have to do with immigration, refugees, visas, etc. I hear terms that I am not necessarily familiar with and it is positively dizzying.

Over the years—and I already have quite a few under my belt—whether I was working in radio or television, I learned how easy it is to get people up in arms, to take extremely serious and human subjects and to completely and totally dehumanize them. It is easy to give certain impressions and to play on people's worries and fears.

The hon. member for Winnipeg North seems to be offended by the bill's short title. I am too. I always say that, when it comes to the members opposite, reality is in the details. The full title of the bill is An Act to amend the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. I would like to emphasize the “refugee protection” part of the title because, when we look at the bill, the short title says something different. When I was studying law, I was taught that the short title was a way to shorten titles that were sometimes too long. In law, that is what the short title is. Yet, here, the short title often shows us the intention behind what the members opposite are constantly trying to achieve with their bills. In this case, it is informative because the short title really jumps off the page.

We are talking about An Act to amend the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. One could wonder how a title like that could be shortened since it is already quite clear and concise. But, the Conservatives shortened the title to the Faster Removal of Foreign Criminals Act. When I saw that, I said to myself, “Wow! There are going to be plenty of problems with this.” What struck me, when I looked into the subject a little, was that it is difficult to determine how many cases this bill will affect. Why? The reason is that, when we are dealing with the members opposite, we are never able to access any information. It is like going to the dentist and trying to have a tooth extracted every time. And yet, this seems to be an extremely important and valid issue.

I always tell myself that, when we are in this impressive and imposing chamber, we have a role to play. I start thinking about how I am going to go back to the law faculty at the University of Ottawa just to tell them to forget this other principle of law that is taught, that it is not true and that the legislator speaks for the sake of speaking. In fact, I find that, often in this magnificent chamber, people speak for the sake of speaking. Laws are being created that leave me wondering what problem they address.

The government invents problems in order to draft bills that it can show off to people on the 6 o’clock and 11 o’clock news. It is really sad, because this perpetuates prejudices that are so easy to transmit.

When I was a little girl, my parents told me Canada was a beautiful country. They infused me with pride in Canada from my youngest days. Our parents were Franco-Ontarian, but we, the children, were born in Quebec. We took full advantage of our beautiful Canadian federation. My father often told us that the beauty of Canada lay in its three founding peoples. Of course he meant the first nations, Quebec and Canada.

Another element of this beauty is the perception people have of Canada as a land of welcome; a land that takes care of its citizens, of course, but is also concerned with what happens elsewhere. I am not trying to make everyone’s hearts bleed, but everyone knows that. My father always said that Canada welcomed everyone with open arms. I grew up with that concept and that belief. In the last 10 or 15 years, a harder tone has crept into such talk.

Perhaps the media are a little bit to blame. Television news is now on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Because of the ratings wars, news organizations often work very hastily and try to find news items that will shock and provoke. What could be easier than to use another human being badly and keep him down? That is what happens when we talk about immigrants and refugees. At least that is so in my humble opinion, which no one is obliged to share.

When I was young, I had some problems understanding the nuances concerning refugees.

What I understand now is that while an immigrant makes the decision to come here, a refugee has no choice. The refugee is seeking a land that will welcome him, because if he stays where he is, he may be killed. As we begin, can we keep this basic concept in mind?

That said, there always are good people and those who are not so good. Like Jack Layton, I have a tendency to remain an eternal optimist and be positive. I tell myself that most people are fundamentally good. I still believe that, although it is sometimes difficult when I see the morning news. Anyway, in my heart, I still believe it.

The bills introduced by the members opposite always try to twist concepts that otherwise would be positive and humane. These bills are making our society one that trusts almost nothing and no one. They leave the very disagreeable impression that on every street corner lurks a criminal refugee who is the worst person ever born, but luckily, here is the great Captain Canada, also known as the Minister of Immigration. He will ensure that our society can live without fear, because he will be able to send that bad person back where he came from, no matter what will happen to him there.

This bill, like many others, worries me greatly. My only warning is that many powers are being taken away from the Immigration Appeal Division of the Immigration and Refugee Board and given to the minister. I like the minister, but I would not give him—or any other minister—carte blanche.

Thus, we must not think that this bill will be taking away all recourse. In fact, it creates tons of recourse. The party across the way, by creating or passing this kind of measure, will ensure that arguments will no longer be made on appeal and that they will no longer concern the facts of the case. With my crystal ball, I predict that there will be many instances of recourse to get a judicial review of the minister’s decisions. It will all serve to open another Pandora’s box—and the results may be nasty.

So, once again, I hope that they will listen to what is said in committee, that the committee is able to do its work thoroughly, and that the members opposite will stop thinking that a bill is good just because they wrote it.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I was a bit shocked. I have been listening to the New Democrats talk about minor crimes or issues being minor in particular circumstances, such as anything less than six months as far as the punishment goes. Could the member clarify what “minor” means in her submissions?

My understanding, being a criminal lawyer for some period of time, is that we are talking about minor offences such as assault with a weapon, sexual assault, robbery, and break and entry. These are violent offences and Canadians tell me that they expect us to put people in jail for these offences. They do not expect those people to be allowed into Canada in the first place, and if they do commit these offences they expect that they would be immediately taken out of the country and not have the privilege of Canadian citizenship.

Is this what the New Democrats mean by “minor offences”: robbery, rape and sexual assault?

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, all I can say is “I rest my case.” I think the hon. member did not hear the main point of my speech. In any case, I do appreciate that a Conservative member has finally risen in the House to at least try to demonstrate some interest in Bill C-43.

That said, I would say no, that is not what I mean by minor. We know that the Conservatives are always trying to make people believe that the official opposition wants to protect pedophiles, bank robbers, and the like.

Here we are talking about making changes concerning people who have been found guilty of an offence subject to a two-year sentence but who had certain rights, and reducing that to six months. I would like to reply to the hon. member that six-month sentences are given for shoplifting. Some minors make mistakes. Some people, when they are young, make certain mistakes and, with a good rehabilitation system, turn into very good citizens.

So, would the other side please stop using the most extreme cases and trying to shove them down our throats, and stop trying to pretend we are saying things we are not.

No one in this house wants to see Canada open its arms to hardened and dangerous criminals and allow them to stay here. That is not the issue. The issue is to strike a balance in this bill, as we would like to see in all things.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to pick up on that particular point. In real terms, imagine a person who came to Canada 15 or 20 years ago. The person is now a permanent resident but has not acquired citizenship. Maybe other members of the family have, but that person has not.

If this legislation passes, the government would say that if the person were caught with six plants of marijuana in the house, he or she would be deported with no appeal. It does not mean the entire family would be. The three or four children who might have been born here in Canada or the spouse who may be a Canadian citizen would not be deported. However, that person would be deported and the reason would be that he or she has six plants of marijuana.

These are the types of things that would take place. Could the member provide comment on whether that is just punishment for a person who would be caught in that sort of predicament?

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that is exactly what I was saying to the other member before the question.

There are so many cases. I worry that with all the work that was done on Bill C-10, the Safe Streets and Communities Act, new minimum sentences were created for some offences which, even the members opposite will admit, are not as serious as robbery with violence, armed robbery or major fraud.

Situations may arise like the one the hon. member for Winnipeg North just described. They are not rare. Many people have not applied for citizenship but, after making some mistakes and serving their sentences, become model citizens. They just have not made it official.

So all kinds of situations can happen. Once again, I want to ask the government a question. How many cases is this based on? Exactly who are the targets?

We must be able to make decisions based on the evidence. This government, which was elected on a promise of transparency, continues to show a lack of transparency. How ironic.

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what else is there to say after the hon. member for Gatineau summed up the issue so well? I will say that it is with very mixed feelings that I take part in today's debate.

First, I want to stress that, yes, we do share the government's concern over serious crimes committed by individuals who are not Canadian citizens. However, we think it is just as normal to share some real concerns about Bill C-43.

This bill will prevent permanent residents and illegal immigrants who are sentenced to a jail term of six months or more in Canada from appealing their deportation order. The individuals convicted would then be sent back to their country 12 to 15 months sooner than if they could have pleaded their case before the Immigration Appeal Division.

Currently, only immigrants sentenced to more than two years in a penitentiary are deprived of that right. According to the Department of Immigration, over 2,400 convicted individuals are currently appealing to the Immigration Appeal Division of the Immigration and Refugee Board. The new rule would eliminate half of those cases.

The bill includes other changes to the act. For example, those who are inadmissible for serious reasons will no longer be allowed to apply to stay in the country on humanitarian grounds. Moreover, the Minister of Immigration would be given a new power. That is indeed the case. Another power is given to the minister. Obviously, he must have felt that all the powers given to him under Bill C-31 were not enough.

And now this government goes so far as to deny permanent resident status to an individual, for reasons of public interest. We can be sure that the courts will have their hands full, even though that is already the case.

Finally, under Bill C-43, a foreign national would also be denied entry to Canada if a member of his family is denied entry for reasons related to security, organized crime or war crimes, even if the individual who committed the crime does not accompany that person.

The immigration minister said that his Bill C-43 seeks to restructure the deportation of convicted criminals by restricting their access to the appeal process. The minister indicated that, currently, many immigrants who have been convicted of crimes can avoid deportation because they were sentenced to a prison sentence of less than two years. The term “many” should be put in perspective because, according to Statistics Canada, in 2010-11, 86% of all prison sentences were of six months or less. We want facts because facts show the real picture.

As I already mentioned, this bill seems to follow the Conservative government's alarming pattern of giving greater discretion to ministers in matters of immigration and public safety. The high degree of discretion that Bill C-43 grants to the minister with respect to issuing or revoking a declaration, which would prevent a foreign national from becoming a permanent resident for a maximum period of 36 months, seems to go too far and must be clarified. To justify the discretionary powers that he would be given, the minister said, “We just do not have the time.”

Unfortunately, a little bit of time is what some immigrants need sometimes, if only to fill out all the forms and paperwork, to ask questions and make telephone calls to find out where a certain document has to be submitted and by when. Furthermore, massive cuts are being made to Citizenship and Immigration's client service unit. It would not be very difficult for the minister to give them a little more time. It would be the least he could do.

Michael Bossin, an immigration lawyer in Ottawa, says that, in his experience, jail time for these young offenders teaches them a lesson, they get a job, become responsible, build a family and no longer pose a danger to the public. According to Mr. Bossin, with a stay of removal, a young immigrant reacts as though he were on probation and often changes his conduct. Mr. Bossin believes that the changes to the new law could result in the export of Canada's social problems and will not deal with the underlying causes of criminality.

Once again, this government relies on clichés far too often and it does not address the source of the problem. That is what it should be doing instead.

In addition, Mr. Bossin believes that people with a mental illness would suffer undue hardship if they were deported to a country where they are often stigmatized and punished because of their condition. On that topic, Ms. Lash, an immigration and refugee lawyer with community legal services in Ottawa, says that those changes will affect many individuals with psychiatric problems.

According to lawyer Joel Sandaluk, if Bill C-43 becomes law, it is likely to divide families. He states that this is going to destroy families who have been in Canada for a long time and that, if the parents or other family members are deported from Canada, this will do irreparable damage. The damage will be irreparable because we are talking about the lives of human beings. We must never forget that.

In addition, Andras Schreck, vice-president of the Ontario Criminal Lawyers' Association, said that Bill C-43 raises constitutional issues under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Lawyers across Canada are speaking up for the rights of Canadian immigrants, many of whom came to Canada at a young age. They were raised and educated here, they started families here and they started businesses here. Many companies in Quebec City were founded by immigrants who have received major awards for entrepreneurship. By the way, I congratulate them and I am proud of them.

The government's proposal is clumsy, because it is likely to have a significant impact on immigrants who do not have Canadian citizenship. In fact, the legislation will even apply to permanent residents who have been in Canada for decades.

As justification for this bill, the government has given examples of cases where immigrants have committed serious crimes and then used the system to delay their deportation for years. Those examples show flaws in the system, I agree. It is important to study the matter. We need to know what those flaws are and make sure that any gaps are plugged rather than resorting to stereotypes.

The NDP wants to move this bill forward in committee. Despite the bill's clear deficiencies, we want to hear experts give their opinions on the matter so that reasonable solutions to the problem can be found. New Democrats believe that it is possible to work with the government to prevent non-citizens who have committed serious crimes from abusing our system of appeals, and to do so without trampling on human rights. The NDP also supports those newcomers who want the government to focus on improving the fairness and the speed of the immigration system for the great majority of people who do not commit crimes and who live by the rules.

To conclude, this is one more bill where the Conservative government tells itself that there is nothing finer than to use its majority to push bills through and to steamroller over the opposition and especially over experts in the field. I have quoted a number of them here who confirm that we absolutely must take longer with, and go deeper into, social problems. This bill is oversimplified. We are showing prejudice and a lack of class in dealing with our immigrants. They are here among us and they function very well. In some cases, they are extraordinary people. I have met them, and frankly, they are models for our society.

I feel that it would be a real shame to remove these models, who are teaching our younger people profound and universal Canadian values. It would be a real shame to send these people back with their rights trampled on in this way.

[Kevin Sorenson, Conservative, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I commend the member for a very good NDP speech. It was one of the best NDP speeches I have heard for some time in that it was an NDP speech. The speech said very much about the offender's rights and that some of the offenders the hon. member knew were model citizens. It said nothing about the victims. It was a wonderful NDP speech. It was light on victims and heavy on the offender.

When I go out into my riding, I have individuals come up to me and say that they read in the newspaper that so-and-so, who came from another country and immigrated here and has committed armed robbery, is now going through an appeal. They want to know why do we not just send the person back home. That is what we hear in our ridings.

We hear of people like Gheorghe Capra who has over 60 counts of fraud, forgery, conspiracy to commit fraud and obstructing a peace officer. He got a sentence ranging from two days to two years less a day. He was asked to leave. The removal order was for September 2003 and he began the appeal process.

The bill would change that. People would need to be on their best behaviour when they come to our country and they are not citizens. They would need to keep clean, be productive and become part of what we expect here in Canada, a multicultural rich heritage, of which we want them to be part, but if they become a criminal they will go home.

Why does the member not care about the victim--

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Order, please. The hon. member for Québec.

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member, who still dared give me a compliment. If he did compliment me, it was because I made an effort here in this House to qualify what I say. I do not want to resort to clichés.

I had an absolutely wonderful conversation with a taxi driver, and that conversation gave him a lot to think about. When we open the morning newspaper, we sometimes read about an awful case, a really dreadful story or tragedy. It might be about any kind of crime. At some point, the crime is no longer about any particular race, gender or age. It is quite simply a despicable crime.

I said in my speech that this bill will not change things dramatically, because there are not many cases where it will apply. So this is a bill that, unfortunately, all too often is about prejudice. But I do not want us to fall prey to such prejudice. I really want to plug the gaps where they are. I do not want to use a bazooka to kill a fly. It is ridiculous, to be honest. At that point, we would destroy everything just to make sure we protect ourselves and ensure that the safety of Canadians is not at stake.

It is important to qualify one's statements. I think that the people who can do this—

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Order, please. Before I go back to questions and comments, I would remind all hon. members that in the five minute question period there is time for about two questions and about two answers, which means about a minute each. If members pay attention, the Chair usually gives you an indication as you are approaching the end of your time. If you ignore that, the Chair will cut you off and we will move on to the next person.

Questions and comments. The hon. member for Winnipeg North.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I want to highlight the fact that there are over 1.5 million permanent residents here in Canada and a vast majority of them are outstanding citizens of this country. The government needs to be reminded of that fact when it labels legislation “foreign criminals” and the message it is trying to send.

Yes, the Conservatives want to come across as being tough on crime, but they are also sending a very negative message to those 1.5 million permanent residents who are living here in Canada and calling Canada home.

I am wondering if the member might want to respond to that aspect of the targeting that is taking place by the government.

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Indeed, everyone is for virtue. Everyone is for sharing the same values. And that is the problem. This Conservative government resorts to clichés far too often. It exploits that, which does not make sense. That is exactly the problem with this bill.

The Conservatives' arguments are often crazy. I would just like to say that the NDP is not in favour of criminals. It is not in favour of pedophiles. You would have to be completely nuts to think that. I will never accept that.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to speak in the House on behalf of my constituents of Surrey North.

I am an immigrant to this country and I am thankful for the opportunities I have had here. Many other members in the House are also immigrants to Canada.

I listened to the debate this morning. The member from Winnipeg North is absolutely right. The vast majority of the immigrants who come here, at one point or another, are good citizens. They contribute to the economy, the culture and make good citizens.

I am also a father of a young girl and boy. Therefore, for Conservatives to constantly ask about which side the New Democrats are on when it comes to rapists and murderers, as a father, I know which side I am on.

We agree in principle with Bill C-43, an act to amend the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. We agree that there are some good aspects to the bill. However, there are many holes in it and we need to be look at those. Therefore, we will support sending it to committee so it can look at some of these issues.

One issue I have with the bill is it concentrates more power in the hands of the minister by giving him new discretionary authority over the admissibility of temporary residents. Basically the minister can declare a foreign national admissible for up to 36 months if the minister is of the opinion that it is justified by public consideration. The minister may also at any time revoke or shorten the effective period of declaration of admissibility.

I have trouble with the word “opinion”. What is that opinion? How does the minister form that opinion? Are there criteria set as to how that opinion is formed? It is very troubling.

The second component I also have trouble with is the change to what constitutes a serious criminality for the purposes of access to an appeal of determination of inadmissibility. Previously, a conviction in Canada resulting in a prison sentence of two or more years constituted an automatic stripping of permanent residency or a temporary resident's right to an appeal at the immigration appeal division. However, Bill C-43 would revoke the right to an appeal of a determination of inadmissibility where there would be a conviction of six months or more.

We talked about minor offences and young people this morning. There may be young people who have committed a robbery and are put in prison. Their whole family may be here and they would have no right to appeal to get a fair hearing. They may be able to reform and become productive members of society, yet they will be sent back to a country with which they may not be familiar. Therefore, I have a problem with that.

The bigger issue the Conservatives are trying to avoid is the whole immigration system that we have in place. It was broken before. The Liberals had a chance to fix it for many years. We have seen lineups and wait times being increased for family reunification for spouses and for skilled workers. That was under the Liberals. Then the Conservatives said that they would fix it and make it better. What I have seen in the last six years is the dismantling of the immigration system, which is broken, and that is a bigger issue. They are not fixing the immigration system so it is fair, effective, efficient and serves the needs of Canadians.

We are all familiar with the fact that Canada has an aging population and we do need immigrants to fill the jobs that would help the government bring in revenues so we can provide services such as education, medicare and other services on which Canadians depend. Yet that does not concern the Conservatives. They are avoiding the whole issue of fixing the system so it is effective, efficient and is better for our economy.

I will give some examples. A young husband and a wife came into my office a few months ago and I had a chance to sit down with them. They had gone to another country looking for a caregiver. They interviewed a person who they felt could provide child care for their daughter. They came back to Canada and wanted to submit an application. The husband was a businessperson and the wife was a teacher for the local school board. They wanted their daughter to be taken care of at home by a live-in caregiver from another country who they would sponsor. When they submitted their application, they found out that it would take four years before they could get the application reviewed by our embassy.

Therefore, if one were to have a three or four year old child, he or she would have to wait four years to bring someone to Canada to provide child care services. The couple I spoke of are productive members of our society, a teacher and a businessperson, who are providing jobs in our community, yet one of them will have to stay home to take care of their daughter. That was their predicament. That is not right. The system is broken and it needs to be fixed. That is what they told me.

There is another case of a woman who had stage four breast cancer and was trying to sponsor her mother to come here from Romania to spend the last four or five months with her so she could be surrounded by family. Her mother had come to Canada previously on a temporary visa and had returned. This woman wanted to spend time with her mother. Because of the present rules, her mother was denied a temporary visa. The system is broken. Her mother had already come to Canada and returned, yet she was denied a visa to return to be with her daughter during her last days and take care of her. The daughter was willing to provide financial support and health care insurance for her mother.

Another example is that of a dying father who requested that his son come and visit him during his last days in hospital. He was denied a visa to come to Canada. When the father died, the son again applied for a TRV, a temporary resident visa, to come to Canada to see his father for the last time.

These are the kinds of problems that the government is failing to fix. If there were—

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. In the last few minutes of this member's speech there has been no relevance to the bill at hand. We are talking about deporting foreign criminals. He is talking about a lot of sad stories, and we understand that, but it has no relevance to the matter at hand.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Order, please. The hon. member for Oxford is correct that members are required to speak to the matter before the House. However, it is also the practice of this place that significant latitude is given to members.

Therefore, I would go back to the hon. member for Surrey North. He has about 30 seconds left.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I believe this is relevant because the Conservatives have brought in a bill that addresses a small component of the Immigration Act. Although we are supportive of that principle, the bigger issue is that the immigration system is broken and they are failing to fix it.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to build on what the member for Crowfoot talked about. I did not hear one mention of victims. This legislation talks about having a mechanism in place so when people come to Canada, they respect our laws and if they do not do that then, simply put, they get sent back.

Does it matter to the hon. member that criminals who get deported should get deported?

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in the last year and a half since I have been here I have heard the Conservatives talk about how they stand up for victims. The fact is they are not standing up for victims when it comes to providing compensation to them or taking care of their families. This legislation would create more victims. If one family member is deported for a minor crime, it will create more victims.

If the Conservatives want to stand up for victims, they should be increasing funding and investing in preventative programs that would eliminate crime in our society.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Mr. Speaker, would the member for Surrey North like to comment on the fact that this legislation talks about foreign criminals? Members opposite talk about foreign criminals as people who come to Canada and commit crimes so therefore they should be sent back “home”.

A lot of people who are in Canada as permanent residents came here when they were one, two or three years old. They could be here for high school. They could be spending all of their lives here. Their home is actually Canada. If they come to a place where we promote the rule of law, we would expect the right of appeal, et cetera to be available to them. If they commit a crime and they get six months or more, they are entitled to the rehabilitation provided by the penal system.

Does my colleague think they can be considered foreigners who should be sent back home? Is that a realistic way to look at our immigration policy on how we should treat people who come to our country?

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I also have trouble with the title of the bill, which is the faster removal of foreign criminals act.

We have heard in the House that this is about permanent residents. These are people we have admitted to our country. I was one of them at one point. We have 1.5 million permanent residents in Canada and for one reason or another they have not taken out their Canadian citizenship.

With respect to the issue that my good colleague talks about, when these members are part of our society and they commit a minor crime, they should have the opportunity to appeal. These young people should also have the opportunity to rehabilitate in our society. Individuals may be separated from their family and may be deported to a country with which they have no ties.

We need to look at providing opportunities in cases where a second look is warranted.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Brampton West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Winnipeg North keeps saying that somehow members on this side of the House are saying that permanent residents are criminals and that this legislation would target permanent residents. We on this side of the House do not believe that permanent residents are a bunch of criminals who are going to be deported. The only ones slandering permanent residents here are those members and the member for Winnipeg North.

I want to know if they want to apologize to the 1.5 million permanent residents in our country who do a darn good job contributing to this country.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with the member. Permanent residents are contributing to our country, both economically and culturally.

I agree with my fellow Liberal colleague who talked about the 1.5 million permanent residents, who are part of this society. The Conservatives are looking at a small number of cases involving people who have committed a serious crime and who should be deported. We all agree on that. However, they are targeting those 1.5 million.

It is unfortunate that the Conservatives speak out of both sides of their mouth.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this is an interesting bill we are looking into today. It is, by all accounts, a bill to allow Canada to deport non-citizens who commit serious offences. This, in itself, is an eminently supportable goal, but it does not fully describe the entirety of Bill C-43.

As my colleague from Newton—North Delta, the New Democratic critic for citizenship, immigration and multiculturalism, has indicated, New Democrats recognize the need for an efficient and responsible judicial approach to removing serious criminals who are not citizens. I agree that all Canadians want a tough approach to non-citizens who commit serious, often violent crimes in our communities. I believe it is also important for us to note that the overwhelming majority of newcomers to this country are actually law-abiding and follow the rules. Those newcomers also support the broader concept that is the stated intention of Bill C-43.

We cannot mix up the facts as we consider how best to weed out a small group of offenders who are no more a reflection of any community they come from than any domestic criminals are to their own home towns. We can see there is agreement on intent, but it is not a free pass for the government to do whatever it wants. New Democrats would like to see amendments to the bill that would allow us to arrive at a piece of legislation we can support. Ultimately, our criticism of the proposed amendments to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act relates to a handful of issues, not the least of which are the concentration of power in the minister and the abandonment of an appeal process.

New Democrats do not support slamming the door on an appeal process, just as we do not support granting the minister unilateral powers to stop a foreign national from becoming a temporary resident for up to 36 months based on what is being called public policy considerations. Surely we can agree that is a vague and broad definition.

We can still hear the peanut gallery on the other side.

In fact, the manner in which this bill concentrates more power in the minister seems to indicate some kind of disbelief in the system that is in place, some kind of a belief that what the process really needs is a sheriff. In Bill C-43 we see that. Not only can the minister declare a foreign national inadmissible for up to 36 months if the minister is of the opinion that it is justified by public policy considerations, but the minister may also, at any time—and I repeat, at any time—revoke or shorten the effective period of a declaration of inadmissibility.

This may sound like jargon, but there is a bigger problem at play that others will recognize, and that is the disturbing trend we see from the government, the trend of concentrating more power in the hands of individual ministers. This arbitrary power is granted at the expense of transparency and clearly defined policies that can be consistently administered.

Members may recall that this is one of the criticisms that was central to the changes to the Fisheries Act in the last budget. Those changes gave the minister discretionary power to determine whether a fish species was important enough to warrant protection. This bill continues that unfortunate trend. It is a pattern of behaviour that puts the government and its decisions behind closed doors. It makes our government more opaque and quite the opposite of the transparent and accountable administration Canadians desire and were promised. However, there is good news. This is something that can be fixed. If there is a willingness, there is a way.

Ministerial discretion can be replaced with clear and effective guidelines that can be publicly administered, which is something we hope the government will consider. It is something we know that Canadians want and will support.

What is more than a little strange is the way in which Bill C-43 would give the minister discretionary powers to act in the manner of the sheriff I just described. However, at same time, it would relieve that same person from similar responsibilities related to appropriate discretionary powers. We see the call for the minister to be given the power to declare a foreign national inadmissible, but in those cases where the minister is actually required to use extraordinary powers to ensure the system is performing to its potential, the Conservatives are begging off that part of the job.

As we know, the current arrangement means that on the request of a foreign national or even on the minister's own initiative, the minister is required to examine the circumstances of a person who is considered inadmissible on grounds of security, humanitarian or international rights violations, or organized criminality. In those instances where the minister feels a compelling case has been made, he or she can grant an exemption on humanitarian and compassionate grounds and take into consideration the interests of a child directly affected.

My colleague alluded to this a while ago with respect to children who came here with their family and may not have received Canadian citizenship. If they are permanent residents and have been here since the age of six months, or whatever age, and all of a sudden they find themselves in a dilemma such as this, the minister would then be able to say that they would have to go home to a land where they have never been. The new arrangement would relieve the minister of this obligation altogether. It is as if the Conservatives cannot fathom that there would ever be circumstances where an appeal might be legitimate or even successful.

Let us look at our own criminal justice system. We have had people criminalized and put in jail, but when they have appealed the decision, and sometimes it has taken years, the government has had to actually apologize for that, which is why the appeal process is important.

However, without appeal, it is a black and white view that does not match the reality of the world. It assumes that there will never be a miscarriage of justice, when we know full well that the potential for mistakes is always present, which is why we have appeal processes in the first place.

To recap, the minister wants to be able to act in a decisive manner on a case-by-case basis if he feels it is warranted. On the other hand, the Conservatives are asking to be excused from the responsibility of the office in terms of adjudicating what is basically an appeal process. What we have here is an appeal for both a concentration of power and the removal of a check and balance function. Again, it is about transparency and accountability. We need a check and balance function.

For New Democrats, these items need to be fixed. We have additional concerns with Bill C-43, which relate to changes in the definition of serious criminality as well as the intention to accept the decision of foreign courts that may not operate at the same high standard as ours do in Canada.

As a bit of an aside, I am sure there are many professionals struggling for recognition of their foreign credentials who are looking on with a sense of disbelief. When it comes to branding someone a criminal, the Conservative government is willing to accept the standards of courts from countries whose professional credentials are more vigorously challenged. I am sure that point is not entirely lost on people who are struggling on that front.

To be clear, the larger goal of Bill C-43 is not without its merit. New Democrats think this is a case where we can tighten things up. We could take the bill to committee, roll up our sleeves and do the work to ensure Canada comes out of the process with a better Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.

However, most of us in this place know that there are bigger challenges that we must address as well. We hear it from our constituents and we see it in our offices.

[Ray Boughen, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I am little confused with what I am hearing from my colleague across the way. I hear the NDP saying that the Prime Minister is very controlling, does not allow any latitude, does not allow for decision-making, yet in the same breath, the Prime Minister is being condemned for being too loose, for leaving everything open and the minister is making all the decisions. I wonder which way we are looking at that.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I did not particularly say that the Prime Minister was controlling, but obviously based on the acts Conservatives are taking it is obvious that they are controlling. Let us see who are really being victimized, for example: immigrants, seniors, aboriginal people and students. These are the people who are being victimized by the government. If Conservatives could have tied the words “victims”, “offenders” or “crime” to their changes to OAS, I think they would have done it.

Let us look at the real picture, which is that the services that could help people make sure they have a good start here in Canada with respect to immigration, to keep them out of trouble, to make sure things are going smoothly, are the very programs the government is cutting. So even in places like Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, we are struggling with reduced services from the federal government, which includes the closure of the citizenship offices. Those offices were in Sudbury, Sault Ste. Marie and Thunder Bay and were all offices that people from different corners of my constituency would have gone to for assistance. Guess where they are coming now? They are coming to our offices because those services are not available in northern Ontario anymore.