Debates of Nov. 6th, 2012

Bill C-24—Time Allocation Motion

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

moved:

That, in relation to Bill C-24, An Act to implement the Free Trade Agreement between Canada and the Republic of Panama, the Agreement on the Environment between Canada and the Republic of Panama and the Agreement on Labour Cooperation between Canada and the Republic of Panama, not more than two further sitting days shall be allotted to the consideration at third reading stage of the said bill; and

That, 15 minutes before the expiry of the time provided for government orders on the second day allotted to the consideration at third reading stage of the said bill, any proceedings before the House shall be interrupted, if required for the purpose of this order, and in turn every question necessary for the disposal of the stage of the bill then under consideration shall be put forthwith and successively without further debate or amendment.

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Pursuant to Standing Order 67.1, there will now be a 30-minute question period. We will try to keep questions and comments to around one minute and the responses to a similar length. As we have done in the past, preference will be given to MPs from the opposition. However, government members will be recognized from time to time as well.

The hon. member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this is the 29th time that the Conservative government has moved closure on a piece of legislation since the last election. It is seeking to break a record that no government should seek to break.

Let us find out what the justification is for shutting down debate in Parliament on this particular piece of legislation. This is a free trade deal with Panama, which in 2011 represented a staggering 0.03% of our overall global trade. However, the House leader claims that this is a critical piece of trade negotiation and without it the Canadian economy would certainly falter and fail.

This is the Conservatives' excuse. This is their reason for once again limiting debate in the House of Commons, which is something they used to deride when, as members of the opposition, they fought for MPs to be able to their jobs.

The central piece in this particular trade deal that is causing Canadians much concern is not about the amount of trade going back and forth between our two countries, but the fact that Panama remains a serious tax haven for corporations and individuals to hide their money and not pay their fair share of taxes. The NDP is trying to convince the government that this needs to change in the bill.

The response from the Conservatives is not to make those changes but instead to shut down debate. They shut Canadians out of the process and say that if we do not move 0.03% of our trade up to say 0.05% of our trade, clearly millions of Canadians would be thrown out of work. This does not make sense. What makes sense is to actually improve legislation. Let the House of Commons do its work. Allow MPs to actually earn their pay, which we do on this side. However, on the Conservative side, they seek time allocation, almost 30 times now since the last election. These guys are breaking records no government should ever seek to break.

Will the government House leader realize that improving legislation is something that the House ought to be engaged with and not with these draconian shut-downs of Parliament's work?

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, trade is critically important for Canadian workers and Canadian jobs. Canadian exports to Panama have been increasing at a dramatic rate. Last year our exports to Panama were over $110 million just in goods alone, and that was an increase of 20% over two years earlier. This agreement with Panama was entered into two and a half years ago, and relations have been going well.

We also have to realize that, when our workers compete in the global market, they are competing against others. Our main competitors in Panama, indeed in the entire western hemisphere, are always the Americans, and effective last Wednesday, October 31, the United States' free trade agreement with Panama finally came into force and effect.

As a result of the difficulties we have had with the opposition in not getting this passed through the House, Canadian workers are now being asked by the opposition to compete with the Americans with one hand tied behind their backs. Canadian workers are not going to be able to compete when their labours are taxed by the Panamanian government at a higher rate than those of their American brethren.

For us to compete and create jobs, our workers need to be able to have the exact same advantages, the best advantages we can give them, so that they have the lowest-cost tax structure, not by taking it in lower wages, but by paying less in duties and tariffs on the things they export to Panama. Having trade with Panama is critical for Canadians to compete and create jobs in this country.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I do not want to say it is a pleasure to rise today to speak to this particular motion, because it is actually a huge disappointment. We have had so many time allocations that even my head spins, and it does not spin that easily.

Once again the question that comes into my mind is: Why is the government so determined to shut down parliamentary oversight over a free trade agreement with Panama? We have the time. There is no urgency on this. Canadians are not sitting at home wondering when we are going to sign this agreement. When we enter free trade agreements, especially bilateral free trade agreements, which we know are not always the best, it is best if we take time to examine them and let parliamentarians do their job.

My question to my esteemed colleague across the way is: What does the government have to hide?

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

We are certainly not hiding the facts that she has ignored, Mr. Speaker. The member asserts that Canadian workers are not at home wondering when the Canadian government is going to sign this agreement, and she is quite right. They are not wondering about it because they have been paying attention. They know we signed this agreement two and a half years ago. They know that, but the member may not know that. It is surprising that the member would rise to debate this matter without even realizing that the agreement was signed two and a half years ago. Canadian workers are wondering why that party wants to hold it up, so they have to compete at a disadvantage with Americans, so they have to start losing their market share. Canadian exports being taxed higher than American exports are going to get locked out of the Panamanian market.

I have a question for the member. Why is the NDP so determined to make sure that Canadian workers' labours are taxed at a higher rate than those of their American brethren? Why are their products facing higher tariffs? Why does she want to keep that condition, which has now been in place for six days, in place for the foreseeable future?

The member says that it is not urgent, that it is not important, that it does not matter if Canadians can compete, because she does not believe that Canadian workers can compete. She does not think it matters whether or not we get into the Panamanian market. Canadians who are manufacturing goods to send to Panama do care. They do care about their jobs and they want to keep them. They want to keep manufacturing and exporting, and we are on their side to make sure that keeps happening.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I have been a parliamentarian for more than 20 years now, and I have had to deal with closure motions from New Democrat governments and Progressive Conservative governments in Manitoba. However, never before have I ever experienced a government that is so persistent in using time allocation, a form of closure, using it as frequently as this particular Government House Leader does.

I quickly did up a list. We had the Canadian Wheat Board, the pooled pension program, the copyright bill, the gun registry, back-to-work legislation, the financial system review and budgets. It is virtually endless. At some point the Government House Leader has to reflect on his ability to negotiate in good faith with opposition parties. If we want the House to function more smoothly and pass legislation, he has to be able to sit down at a table in good faith and negotiate with House leaders.

My question to the member is: Why has the Government House Leader not recognized the value of sitting down with opposition House leaders and trying to work through House business in a fashion in which the government would not be so dependent on having to bring in time allocation on virtually every piece of legislation?

The government's excuse is that it is important; it has to get done. What is important is that the Government House Leader needs to recognize that he has negotiating responsibilities with the House leaders to try to push through an agenda that is far more fair and takes into consideration what the opposition would also like to see happen.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thought up until now that the Liberal Party actually supported a free trade agreement with Panama. The reason I thought it did was that the agreement offers important benefits for Canada. It certainly is important to those workers who are producing over $100 million in goods. We have not even talked about services. There are significant Canadian services that are exported into that marketplace. Also, of course, there is the prospect of further growth in trade. At the rate it has been growing, 20% over just two years, that is significant growth in trade.

Who has it been benefiting? It has been benefiting workers and machinery, those who are producing precious stones and metals, meat, aerospace products, minerals, fuels and oil, and vegetables. It includes our agriculture sector, those producing pulses and lentils, peas and frozen potato products. I know that is important in Atlantic Canada, for example. It includes electrical and electronic equipment, paper and paperboard, pharmaceuticals and I could go on. There is a significant diverse amount of Canadians who work in those sectors who stand to benefit and who already do benefit and stand to lose.

My understanding always was that the Liberal Party thought this was important, that it thought two and a half years since the signing of the agreement was a reasonable timeframe in which to actually decide to implement it and get the House to pass legislation. That is why I thought the Liberal Party was supportive. Apparently I am mistaken.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons is following the Americans' lead. Well, the Americans waited until a tax information exchange agreement to address tax havens was signed before ratifying their agreement. The hon. member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley mentioned this earlier.

The hon. member for Vancouver Kingsway moved a motion to this effect before the international trade committee, calling for the government to wait until such an agreement was signed before passing this free trade agreement. Last Friday, when the minister was talking about Bill C-24, he said that negotiations were under way. Before ending this debate and passing this free trade agreement, why does the government not want to wait until an agreement is signed that would guarantee the protection of taxpayers and the exchange of financial information to crack down on tax havens?

This is a very important issue for people. All taxpayers must be treated equally, and something must be done about tax havens. That is what the Americans did, and we want to follow their example. Why not follow their example with regard to respect for the public and taxpayers?

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am always amused at how New Democrats speak against every single trade agreement we have ever proposed in the House. They have spoken against every single one, including the Canada-Jordan trade agreement. They like to pretend they did not, but I can pull out Hansard, which shows they spoke against it repeatedly and opposed it.

The reality is that there is a different creative argument every time about why they need to oppose them, which is always outdated, as is their opposition to trade. This time it is complaints about Panama and whether it is sufficiently transparent and represents a tax haven. The Organisation of Economic Co-operation and Development some time ago placed Panama among the jurisdictions that are now significantly in compliance with its international expectations. We have been significantly advancing our negotiations and expect to have our mutual agreement in place very soon, but that does not stop the NDP from reaching for any new excuse.

I am quite confident that, were that agreement already in place, if the NDP did not want to wait a short period of time for it to be put in place, the NDP would find another reason why we should not have this agreement, because it fundamentally opposes trade. It is a perplexing thing, because people who have been in Canada over the past several decades would know that Canadian jobs and workers depend on our export markets overwhelmingly. Our prosperity and jobs depend on it. That is why this government is delivering on that.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, in his earlier remarks, the House leader said he was mistaken on where the Liberal Party is at. No, he is not. Liberals have supported this agreement for a very long time. The need for time allocation on Bill C-24 is absurd.

This is a government—and the House leader acknowledged this in the House—that has failed completely to bring legislation through the House in a timely fashion. I hear him attacking the NDP. There are NDP members who sit on the committee and they have some legitimate concerns, but they also have a legitimate right to timely debate. I do not think they have been obstructionist. I do not see the need for time allocation. The government should allow the debate to go to its full extent.

It is interesting how the numbers work. This is an important deal and we are worried that the Americans have an agreement. This legislation is not law because the government delayed for 38 months, and the American agreement is coming into effect. He says exports have increased 20% over the last two years. Yes, they have, but how big is that? The Canada-Panama agreement is 3/100 of 1% of Canada's trade around the world. For the Conservatives to blow the numbers out of proportion as if it were the end of the world if we did not debate it properly is ridiculous, and the government itself should accept its responsibility. It cannot even abuse democracy in a way that makes sense. If it is going to abuse democracy, it should have done it 30 months ago and put the legislation through then.

My question to the House leader is this. Would he begin his answer with an apology for the mishandling of this legislation, bearing in mind that the Liberal Party has supported it in this Parliament and the previous Parliament, when the legislation could have been implemented if the government had done its job and allowed Parliament to operate as it should?

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member who posed the question comes from Prince Edward Island. The main agricultural export to Panama from Canada is potatoes, something in which I know his province has a significant stake. Then he asks what the hurry is. The hurry is this. Since about a week ago, P.E.I. farmers are now being asked to compete at a disadvantage with Americans, who are now going to get duty-free access to the market and Canadians are standing by with an agreement not yet in place. That is the urgency. That is farmers' principal competitor.

I ask him to go back to the people of Prince Edward Island who are engaged in the potato industry, both in the principal growing of the product and the manufacturing of frozen potato products, which are the principal export agriculturally to Panama, and tell them, “I rose in the House this week to make sure you have to wait longer to have access to that market, to make sure you are at risk of losing access into the Panamanian market of the products you produce; I am very proud that I stood up against P.E.I. farmers this week”. Will he do that, because that is exactly what the member has done in the House today?

[Jean Rousseau, NDP, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what is so urgent? Maybe they want to see the American presidential election results. They probably want to get settled in at home as soon as possible.

There is a lot to say about free trade. In the past, 65% of the Canadian economy depended on the manufacturing sector. Now, that figure is 45%. Our economy fell 20% in the last three decades as a result of free trade agreements that did not benefit the manufacturing sector. This is because we cannot provide a social, economic and moral work environment to adapt to the competitive environment created by globalization in the 1990s.

That is why we want to discuss Bill C-24 more and we will continue to do so as long as possible to protect our small businesses, which drive regional economies. That is what is at stake here and there is no rush to do this today.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for vigorously and openly defending the NDP agenda, which is anti-trade. It is a desire to go back to a better day, when Canadians were poorer and we could not export our products. It is a desire to amputate two-thirds of the Canadian economy, which is trade based.

Members should ask themselves this: If they took an economy and shut down two-thirds of it by cutting off trade, which is the NDP plan, what kind of economy would they have? It would be a much poorer one.

However, the NDP has a plan to deal with that, a plan that will save our economy once they shut down trade. It is a $21.5 billion carbon tax. If our workers are not already sufficiently handicapped by tariffs in countries with which we do not have trade agreements, while others are getting into those markets, let us handicap them a little further by making the costs of their inputs a little higher and their own personal cost of living a little higher, which will force them to demand wages that are higher just to pay their taxes, again making them less competitive.

Where would that leave our economy? It would leave it in a very sad, depressed state. That is the NDP plan for the economy: Shut down trade and have higher taxes.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I find it personally offensive that the minister seems to have something against persons with disabilities, because he keeps using the offensive word “handicap” in this House. I do not understand what he has against persons with disabilities that he is once again, over and over, using that very offensive word in this House of Commons.

I will go on to my question about this motion for closure. The labour co-operation agreement would require both parties to actually respect their commitments under the International Labour Organization's 1998 Declaration on Fundamental Principles and Rights at Work. All of Canada's bilateral labour co-operation agreements ratified since 1998, including with Jordan, Colombia, Peru and Costa Rica, have made reference to the obligation under this declaration to protect the right to collectively bargain, to abolish child labour, to eliminate compulsory labour and to prohibit employment discrimination.

Canada and Panama, if we move forward with this, would also agree to minimum employment standards, minimum occupational health and safety standards, and minimum compensation for sick and injured workers.

This is continuing his attack on differently abled Canadians and differently abled people.

Why does the government want to invoke closure yet again? As our House leader mentioned, it is almost the 30th time since the last election.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, first, I will remind the member that this is not a motion for closure. I do not know if she was paying attention. This is actually a motion under a different rubric. It is called time allocation. It is a different part of the Standing Orders. I invite her to familiarize herself with the rules of the House of Commons.

The member did, however, cover the elements that are part of the labour agreement that are very important for the protection of our workers. They ensure that they are on a level playing field and do not work at a disadvantage compared with workers elsewhere. Those are things in the labour agreement such as the elimination of child labour; the elimination of forced labour and discrimination; respect of freedom of association; protection of the right to collective bargaining; protection in regard to occupational health and safety, including compensation in case of injury or illness; employment standards, including minimum wage and overtime pay; and non-discrimination in respect of working conditions for migrant workers.

These are things that are mutually protected in this agreement and that ensure that our workers have fair access to that market for goods and products and are not competing at a disadvantage. That is what we are seeking to do here.

Having enumerated those so well, I would hope that the member would become an enthusiastic supporter of this opportunity to create jobs and opportunities for Canadian workers to sell their goods and services into the Panamanian market, no longer at a disadvantage, and not a disadvantage compared with Americans. They would be on a level playing field, where I know Canadian workers can compete.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, there are many rules and regulations in this House and much terminology. One of the terms I have come to know, thanks to the Conservatives, is closure. That is shutting down a rigorous debate on legislation that is being introduced in this House. We debate to look at the laws we are passing in this House to see that they are conforming to Canadian values, to the Constitution and to what we want to do with this country. Yet the Conservatives are shutting that down.

Let me tell members about the trade policy of the Conservatives. When the Conservatives came into power in 2006, we had a $25-billion trade surplus. Today it is $50 billion in deficit. That is the Conservative record.

What are the Conservatives trying to hide in shutting down this debate?

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this agreement has been around for two and a half years. I was there, as the trade minister, for the signing ceremony. It has been there for everyone to see. We have had legislation in this House for some time. The reason it has become so urgent is that we are now in a situation where we are almost a week into a very unlevel playing field. American workers and companies have the benefit of a trade agreement with Panama that is in force. Canada and Canadian workers are now behind them.

When the question of why it is urgent that we take action now is asked, the answer is that when a Canadian company loses a contract to an American company, the Canadian company is no longer the customer. The American company will be the customer going forward. We are at risk of losing those contracts now. What happens every time one of those contracts is lost? Canadian jobs are lost. That is the urgency. We want to see Canadian jobs grow, not guarantee the loss of Canadian jobs through the delay of this agreement.

The New Democrats apparently say, “Don't worry. Lose those contracts. Let those Canadian jobs be lost. We want more time to debate an agreement that has been around for two and a half years”. We do not agree with that lax attitude. We understand that in the world of global competition, we have to be nimble. We have to compete. We have to give Canadian workers every advantage we can. That is what we would do here on this side.

[Marc-André Morin, NDP, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I do not look that old—especially lately—but I have been in politics for 40 some years. Yet I have never seen a parliamentary leader blame the opposition for everything. He is harping on the carbon tax and making the same jokes day after day. I would prefer a carbon tax to a neuron tax. I do not know why he is avoiding the crux of the problem.

If Canada is at a disadvantage compared to the United States, it is because the Conservatives dragged their feet and did not get this agreement passed. Furthermore, they did not sign a tax information exchange agreement with Panama, as the Americans did.

If people from Prince Edward Island have to wait longer to sell their potatoes, we are not the ones to blame. The Conservatives are the ones who dragged their feet and did not do their job.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member raises the question of the NDP-proposed carbon tax. He does not like it being discussed in this House. It has been said that the New Democrats have never met a tax they did not like. They are always creatively trying to come up with a new one. He has a new one: a tax on ignorance.

I am not going to get into speculating about who might be asked to pay that tax. However, I can tell members that on this side, we are fundamentally opposed not just to the NDP carbon tax but to the tax on ignorance the New Democrats are now proposing.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am also troubled by the fact that the New Democrats continue to try to stifle development and trade opportunities. I come from a riding that has a great deal of agriculture, food processing, primary agriculture, and grains and oil seeds. This particular trade bill would certainly improve the lot of our agricultural community in terms of the kinds of things we would be able to export, including meat, vegetables and peas, and even paper and paper board products from the forestry industry.

I would like my colleague to comment on the importance of this for the agricultural community in Canada.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member, who indeed represents a community that has a long and proud tradition in Canada's agricultural sector, particularly in meats and processed meats, where they have been pioneers and have done very well.

There are two segments where we stand to gain a great deal under this agreement for Canadian farmers. I am sure that the member has heard it from his constituents who stand to gain a great deal. Those segments are the pork and beef sectors. Canadian beef and pork producers have become some of the most successful in benefiting from exports to other markets.

It is not surprising. Not too many NDP members represent those kinds of constituencies. If they did, they would know and would hear from their producers that they want access to these markets. The Panamanian market is one of those places where we see a real opportunity, the way this agreement is structured, to see benefits for Canadian beef and pork producers. That is why we want to deliver on this agreement for Canadians and deliver on it soon.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the reason the government members justify their actions today is that they have hit the parliamentary panic button. They have said that we need to shut down discussion and close off debate, because this is of such economic interest.

They also have to go back in time and remember that they killed this legislation. They prorogued Parliaments. They called elections before the actual law said they were allowed to call elections. Yet all that time this was delayed by their own actions, I guess Canadian farmers and businesses were suffering. Now they have hit the panic button. Now they say that Parliament must be curtailed for the 29th time. They cannot justify these things to Canadians anymore. This is a tendency. The government often gives into this tendency to say that Parliament should not matter, that Parliament is an encumbrance a government has to get around rather than a place where we exchange things.

The member still has not answered the question. Does this free trade agreement finally take care of the tax havens that have been so rife in Panama for so long, where Canadian businesses and wealthy Canadians have been hiding their money and not paying their fair share for all the services we so desperately need?

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated earlier, the NDP members continue to look in the past, both on the fundamental question of trade, which they consistently oppose, and on following developments in the compliance of countries, such as Panama, with their international obligations. That is why the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development moved them off the grey list and deemed them substantially in compliance with those very tax issues about which he is concerned.

The problem with the NDP members is that they will reach for any excuse to oppose a trade agreement. They have opposed trade agreements with the United States, Mexico, Colombia, Jordan, Peru, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, Switzerland, Chile, Costa Rica, Israel, Honduras and now Panama. They do not miss an opportunity to oppose more jobs and more opportunities for Canadians to export. Why? It is because they believe in an old model where Canada is an island and is not part of a larger world economically. That is the way of the past. That is the way of poverty. That is not the way of this government.

[The Deputy Speaker]

It is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith the question necessary to dispose of the motion now before the House.

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?