Debates of March 13th, 2012

Motion That Debate Be Not Further Adjourned

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is on time allocation. The minister is talking about time allocation. This building was built to accommodate debate, to put forth arguments to the government and to find a way to come to an agreement. However, it is the 17th time that the government does that. In this case, the bill had not even come in yet and time allocation was already brought in.

The minister said that she believed she was a pioneer. I think the current government is the only government we will see do that with a smile and be happy about it. I can say this. If I asked Canadians if they wanted the Conservatives to be the governing party they would say no, but they have to live with that, like it or not.

In this case, the minister agreed that time allocation is taking rights away from the workers. However, it also takes away the rights of parliamentarians to be able to express themselves and try to come to a solution.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Halton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would just point out to the member that in the case of a work stoppage, in his own riding his constituents would lose complete services of an air carrier, as it is one of the constituencies in Canada that would cease to have any kind of air travel in and out of the area. I would ask him to ask his constituents whether or not they are in favour of him putting aside their public interests by siding with the unions.

There is an absolute urgency in this matter. We want to make sure that Canadians have certainty. We will do what we need to do to protect the Canadian economic recovery. However, there is nothing to say that the parties, even with this legislation in place, cannot make their own deals and cannot have their own discussions. In fact, we encourage them to go back to the table.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister almost wears this like a badge of honour. She is now a pioneer. She is bringing in this legislation before anything has been done. She has not allowed for collective bargaining.

She calls herself the Minister of Labour. She should maybe look at changing the title to minister of corporations or back to work legislation. This is not a minister who has shown any compassion to the workers. She puts her finger up and she talks about political winds, but she is prepared to walk all over the labour movement.

Why is the minister so eager to disrespect the Air Canada labourers, workers and their families? Why this badge of honour? What is the great hurry? Why break all the rules and try to speed this thing through in 24 hours in order to have this badge of honour?

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Halton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have great respect for all the workers in this country. It is because of the workers in this country that our country is so good. The workers make us the great nation that we are. We are not missing that at all. In fact, that is why our government is concerned about jobs, growth and economic recovery. It is to make sure that we continue to grow and prosper as a country.

That being said, when one sits in government, one has to look out for the interests of all Canadians and not just a select few. As we have said, the best interest of Canadians and Canadian businesses is to ensure that there is not a work stoppage at this airline, either by strike or by lockout. That is why we are intervening. It is with great respect to Canadians that we do so.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the minister what she has been doing to assist the parties to come to a conclusion. I suppose at some point, if the parties are unable to do so, there must be some sort of process that does not hurt the employer or employee. If they stay off they will suffer certain consequences.

Also, there are other people who are dependent upon that service. Is there a need for a process to ensure that all of the interests are balanced and protected? It there a process that can bring this to a conclusion that is satisfactory for everyone involved?

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Halton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I will speak about the machinists' union because it is a very pertinent chronology.

We appointed an outside conciliator, Madam Justice Louise Otis, a retired jurist from Quebec, in December to help the parties reach a deal. Indeed, she reached a deal with the parties at the table. She wrote a conciliation commissioner's report which she gave to me and the other two parties. It was written after the membership rejected the tentative agreement. This is what she said about the situation and the deal:

Taking into consideration the situation of the Parties, the tentative agreement is reasonable and fair. The negotiation process, which was carried out diligently and competently, has been exhausted. I do not recommend that negotiations be resumed or that a mediator be appointed. Under the full circumstances, I consider that a reasonable agreement had been reached.

We hope that in the case of this union and management team that, through the final selection offer, they will find their way again.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am sorry to say, but the minister has it all wrong. This is not an emergency situation. Emergency plans are made when there is a strike. Furthermore, the employees and the unions put these emergency plans into action.

Second, there are other carriers in Canada, such as Porter, Air Expresso and others that could provide transportation services. There is also the train. Tourism or returning home after the March break does not constitute an emergency, far from it.

The government should be a little more respectful of workers, negotiate more, and not proceed as it did with Canada Post, that is, opt for a lockout. We may be moving in that direction, but we should not be. We must respect workers' opinions.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Halton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member brings up a good point that we have not been able to deal with yet which is: What happens in the event of a work stoppage? As I indicated before, we believe it will have an effect on the economy. However, realistically, what happens to the passengers is the question.

Because of the market share that Air Canada enjoys both domestically and internationally, and in its cargo carrying capacity, it is just the simple rule of math that the other carriers cannot absorb those who would be left behind by Air Canada. As a result, there would be a stranding. The reasons being, first, the carriers are flying with good business plans and are near capacity. In fact, WestJet reported an 80% capacity on its flights in January. Therefore, there is very little room for Air Canada passengers. Second, there are Transport Canada rules and regulations that pilots, flight crews and aircraft have to abide by.

It is not that simple for people to find alternate transportation, especially when it comes to airlines. Quite frankly, the majority of the letters we are receiving in the ministry regarding this matter are on the difficulty of rebooking for those Canadian families and business travellers.

[Malcolm Allen, NDP, Welland, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as someone who has been through the bargaining process over a number of years, I see this intervention by the minister as actually making the bargaining playing field unlevel. Bargaining is typically set up so that when a strike or lockout occurs, it is a difficult situation for the general public, who may indeed need the service. However, more important, it is actually a huge sacrifice by workers. It is not just an easy piece for them to go on the picket line and all will be well; it is an extremely difficult decision. The decision on whether they want to go on strike or not was actually taken by the workers who voted to do that.

Is the minister suggesting that somehow every time we get into a situation like this, regardless of the industry, whether federal or private, we will see this type of legislation? In fact, in this particular case there is actually some federal regulation but it is not a federal crown corporation; it is actually a private company.

Are we going to see this type of legislation every single time we have some labour negotiations that are not going well or may result in a strike of a lockout? Is the government simply going to say, “Well, we're not going to let you go down that path even though it is legal“? Will it say, “We are simply going to tell you that we'll enact the settlement, we'll push you to the wall, and at the end of the day we'll simply disrupt the bargaining process and we won't have bargaining at all”? If that is the case, maybe the government should help the employers and unions understand that there is no sense in negotiating, that they should just apply for binding arbitration and never bother negotiating because the negotiations will not come to a conclusion.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Minister of Labour]

Mr. Speaker, the member sets out the case exactly with respect to bargaining at the table. The biggest hammer one has is that employees can withdraw their services and go on strike, and employers can lock out the employees.

What the employees lose, as the member points out, are their wages. The unions lose their membership fees. In the case of the employers, they lose their profits, their income.

However, what we are saying here today is that there is another party not at that table, and that is the Canadian public. Not in every case do we intervene whatsoever; it has to pass the test of national significance, and it does here. It is an economic issue, especially when we are recovering from a global economic setback. As well, it is an issue of the travelling public simply not having an alternative and being stranded elsewhere.

That is the side the Conservative government is on. We do not pick sides at the table. We do not think about what is happening at the table, necessarily, other than to try to help them get a deal. We think about the Canadian public's interest when it becomes apparent that no deal is forthcoming and a work stoppage is about to happen.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Speaker, just to continue this line of discussion by my NDP colleague, when the minister talks about three parties being involved, the public, the enterprise, and the workers, of course all members of the Liberal Party and others on this side of the House are aware that this is a difficult situation. However, it was a decision by the Conservative government that it was in the public interest to pre-emptively bring in legislation and to make this unprecedented move.

I do want to note that when the member of Parliament for Cape Breton—Canso brought up the significant fact that this is the first time ever, the response by the minister was disrespectful, smug, and belittling. The fact of the matter is, Liberal MPs are aware that we are the third party, but that has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. Every parliamentarian in this House, every MP, equally represents the constituents in his or her riding, which is what the member for Cape Breton—Canso was doing.

I would request that the minister reflect on this decision made by the current government and her as one that is not accepted by others as being in the national interest. In fact, allowing a bargaining process to take its path is in the public interest, and there should be an apology by the minister to the member for Cape Breton—Canso for the disrespectful way in which she responded.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Minister of Labour]

Mr. Speaker, I do understand what the member is saying but, unfortunately, what I said is also accurate. What I said is that the government's position on this, and why we are intervening prior to an actual work stoppage, is that we believe that the effects on the economy would be great. Therefore, this government is acting in order to ensure that it does not happen.

It think it is a fair point to say that it should not be a source of pride to allow the economy to be affected for a period of time because of the fact that two parties at the table cannot come to an agreement. At the end of the day, there may have been a strike or a lockout whenever the third party at the time did indeed intervene, but they waited and the economic hit was there already and they still had to bring in back to work legislation. What this government is saying is that we want to avoid the economic hit. We know it is going to happen. We do not want it to happen during this economic recovery period. In fact, that is exactly what we indicated to Canadians we would do, and that is to protect the economy. This is very much part of what our promise is to Canadians, to look out for the Canadian public interest.

[The Acting Speaker, Barry Devolin]

It is my duty to interrupt the proceedings at this time and put forthwith the question on the motion now before the House. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

No.

[The Acting Speaker, Barry Devolin]

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Acting Speaker, Barry Devolin]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Acting Speaker, Barry Devolin]

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #157

Air Service Operations Legislation

[The Speaker, Andrew Scheer]

I declare the motion carried.

The House resumed from March 12 consideration of the motion.

Government Business No. 10

[The Speaker, Andrew Scheer]

The hon. member for Western Arctic has 12 minutes left to complete his remarks.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Mr. Speaker, I am once again not pleased even to have a second opportunity to debate this particular motion, because the motion has once again shown an authoritarian side on the part of the government towards the labour component in this country.

The government has come up with basically two arguments to justify its work stoppage action at this time.

First it talked about the economy and the detrimental effects potential work stoppage would have on it. The Minister of Labour herself referred to a figure of $22.4 million per week lost to the Canadian economy if the strike went ahead. This is the figure that the government has presented us with to understand the nature of the effect on the economy.

That $22.4 million per week amounts to less than nine one-hundredths of a per cent of the economy of this country. It is really not a very large figure when we consider the economy of our country at $1.3 trillion per year.

The labour minister has indicated that this loss to the economy is greater than the loss of the values that we have established in this country for collective bargaining and has made that determination based upon those numbers.

I find that to be very misleading with regard its impact on the economy and the need to move ahead with this thing, this bill, this closure, this stoppage of work action by both the company and the union involved with Air Canada.

In some ways our aviation industry has been hamstrung by the government over the past number of years. The New Democratic Party, and I myself as transport critic in the last Parliament, have stood in Parliament and talked about the impact that the government is making with its excessive airport rents, which in one year amount to about $257 million to the aviation industry. The air travellers security charge amounts to a $394 million charge against our Canadian companies. Fuel taxes are $40 million. A total of $748 million is levied against the industry.

The industry has to compete worldwide and it has to compete with American domestic carriers with airports located near our borders. The industry is under pressure, so of course it is trying to cut back on its labour component.

Let us look at the labour component in this as well. According to Transport Canada, air carrier cost breakdowns are as follows: labour is 17% of the costs of aviation transport in Canada; fuel is 32%; airport fees are 10% ; capital costs are 9.6%; purchase services are 5.6%; and other is 24%.

What we can see is that in reality, the problems with our aviation industry come back to the costs that it has to bear from the current government and previous governments, which have set up our airports as cash cows. Where does it come back to? It comes back to labour. It comes back to the labour component as a way to reduce its costs. It cannot do it with fuel, as fuel is internationally regulated. Other costs are also not subject to change, so where does the industry look for savings? It looks for it in labour, and our unions stand up.

What we have is a situation in which unions are standing up for their employees, government is sitting back collecting huge sums of money off the aviation industry, and the industry is in the middle. That is not a good situation.

What has the federal government done about that? Its response over and over again is, “We do not not care. We are not worried about the aviation industry”.

However, when it comes to the unions standing up for their workers, that is a different matter. When it comes to the money that the government collects from the aviation industry, it will just keep on doing exactly that.

When we look at the situation that we are facing today, we are looking at a government that is becoming increasingly authoritarian in its behaviour. It now considers applying back to work legislation to be just part of the routine. It considers it just part of the routine to reduce the debate that takes place in the House of Commons.

Quite quickly over the last year it has moved more and more toward an authoritarian type of behaviour. It is happy with it. Where it will lead us in the future remains to be seen, but it will not lead us in a direction that is going to be acceptable to Canadians, and we will see that over time.

The type of action that has been taken today is anathema to everyone who believes in Canadian values, in collective bargaining, in the rights of workers and the right of democratic discourse in the House of Commons. The bill takes a shot at a lot of us, and yes, we are standing up. We on this side will continue to stand up against those types of actions.

The minister has not proven her case. One statistic about how this is impacting the economy is all she provides to us in her speech. That is the analysis that she expects us to buy and live with for this type of legislation.

The other interesting subject that was brought up was the impact of the work stoppage at Air Canada on northern and isolated communities. Air Canada is hardly a major influence in the aviation industry in northern Canada. There are a couple of flights to Yellowknife and a couple of flights to Whitehorse. Both of those locations are well serviced by experienced northern airlines that provide regular service to southern destinations and also provide service through the whole of the north of Canada. These are good airlines. They are working hard to provide the service that Air Canada does not provide there and will not provide there. The situation there is that if the strike goes ahead, if the work stoppage were to go ahead, there would be no impact on northern communities; northern communities do not see Air Canada as an essential service, and for the government to even make that suggestion is completely wrong.

We are going to go through this exercise here today and tonight and we will end up with more back to work legislation enforced by the government. This is a situation that is intolerable, but is a situation we will have to endure for a while yet. Sooner or later the Canadian population will wake up to what is going on here, and when they do, the government will suffer the consequences.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I hope the House was listening closely to the hon. member's remarks, because he made a lot of good points.

The fact is our aviation industry is not as competitive because of the costs the government imposes on it, everything from airport fees to taxes. He made a valid point in that the labour costs to the airline only account for 17%.

In the debate thus far, the government has been blaming the unions for not being able to get their membership to agree. I am of the view that, yes, the labour unions did the negotiations. They thought they had a deal. They know how the government operates by trying to impose its will. The government's policy is always to use back to work legislation. There is a certain amount of fear.

The union membership, which is democracy in and of itself, said no. The union members see the consequences on their families and communities in what the government is constantly doing by taking the side of management.

Does the member see that this is just more of the same old process? The government has signalled to labour unions and workers everywhere that it is coming down on the side of management, it is imposing its will and its fear on Canadians, and as a result, we are seeing these kinds of labour disputes and legislation to force them back to work.