Debates of May 9th, 2012

National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Madam Chair, perhaps the minister does not pay attention either to what goes on in House of Commons committees. The House of Commons committee was told last Thursday that Canadian companies could bid on as much as $9.85 billion in production contracts for the U.S. stealth fighter. Is the minister aware of that number?

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

Madam Chair, yes, we are aware of that number. The definitive number is not as yet determined. We will have to wait and see if and when the final contract is, if it is in fact, penned.

As of now, there are industrial benefits to the Canadian aerospace industry, including the employment of substantial numbers of Canadian aerospace workers, and to the Canadian economy worth $430-plus million today, as we speak.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Madam Chair, that figure of $9.8 billion, as the official from the Department of Industry indicated, was actually what they could bid on, not what could they could get or are actually going to get. The Auditor General has said as well that these were the most optimistic scenarios being put forward, with no real background for them.

Could the Minister of Defence tell us how that compares to the dollar for dollar industrial and regional benefits that Canadian defence procurement has traditionally required, when we are talking about $14.7 billion, at a minimum, of purchase and sustainment costs over the next 20 years?

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

Madam Chair, I can say with conviction that having dialogued and spent time with the Canadian aerospace industry, it is very interested and supportive of this particular endeavour. I should also say that going forward we are dealing with estimates. We will have to wait and see how decisions are made, when they are made and under what circumstances in order to establish a definitive figure.

I should add as well that this is one of the reasons we have a secretariat. It is one of the reasons we need these details in order to go forward.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Madam Chair, we have been having this debate for three years now and the government has been putting forth these numbers. Is it giving up on all these numbers now and trying to say that they are meaningless?

The fact is that, based on these numbers, $5 billion are missing in industrial and regional development benefits that would have taken place if we had followed what the Minister of National Defence said on May 27 at the estimates committee meetings, which was that there would be a fair, open and transparent competition. Will there be a fair, open and transparent competition for replacement of the CF-18s?

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

Madam Chair, I think we are leap-frogging ahead of decisions yet to be made and, in fact, yet to be brought forward. This is why we are very respectful of the recommendation made by the Auditor General. It makes perfect sense that we have details, such as the hon. member opposite is asking for, so we can then make a decision as to how we will replace the aging CF-18s.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Madam Chair, there will be others who will ask some further detailed questions about this, despite the fact that we are being stonewalled and getting no answers from the ministers opposite. That is a great pity for the people of Canada who are being asked and have been asked to support this project for the last two years.

As a result of the budget, we have been told by the president of the Canadian Military Colleges Faculty Association that about 20% of the 182 faculty positions at the Royal Military College and other military colleges in Canada will be eliminated. How does the minister feel the education of our officers in training for the Canadian Forces will benefit by eliminating 20% of the faculty, affecting approximately 160 fewer courses at our military college?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Minister of National Defence]

Madam Chair, I am extremely proud as chancellor of RMC to see the progress that it has made during the time that we have been in government. We have been investing significantly during our time in office. What we are seeing now is a focus during these particular times on core strength. That includes core curriculum strength at the Royal Military College. We will continue to provide an array of programs and courses that will ensure that the Canadian Forces will be well served into the future by those young cadets who are doing their studies currently and getting ready to graduate this spring.

[The Chair, NDP, Denise Savoie]

I will now go to the Minister of National Defence for his statement.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Minister of National Defence]

Madam Chair, it is a pleasure to be here this evening discussing a great passion for many Canadians, which is the committee of the whole and the discussion around the Department of National Defence. I am joined here, ably, by the Chief of Defence Staff, General Walt Natynczyk; the deputy minister of National Defence, Rob Fonberg; as well as Kevin Lindsey, the chief financial officer from the Department of National Defence; along with our members.

I want to thank members and those tuning in at home for their attention, their affection and their interest in the department. In fact, during my time as minister of the crown, we continually focus on ensuring that we communicate regularly with Canadians, as we do with parliamentarians. In fact, this is my 25th appearance before a committee, my second with respect to a committee of the whole.

As you know, I am a strong advocate of the Canadian Forces and of the critical role that they play for Canada and the whole world. So, I am always pleased to have the opportunity to promote the important work that this government, the department, and the Canadian Forces are doing in the defence of Canada, and in support of our allies.

Over the past four and a half years, I have had the distinct pleasure of leading a tough, energetic, patriotic and committed team of defence professionals. Whether tackling the massive challenges of deploying over 40,000 Canadian Forces members who rotated through Afghanistan or working tirelessly here at home to provide emergency assistance to thousands of Canadians in their time of need, I have always been impressed by their ability to adapt and persevere, to come together as a united military and civilian defence team in the performance of their mission, no matter what the challenge or how high the tempo.

As members know, it has been another busy year for the Department of National Defence, a pivotal one. Over the past 12 months we have successfully wrapped up two international operations in Kandahar, Afghanistan, and in Libya, stood up our training mission in northern Afghanistan and continued to carry out a broad range of security missions at home and around the world; 15 in total. There are currently more than 1,300 Canadian Forces personnel in NATO and UN missions in combined ops around the world, and Canadian military personnel continue to serve our interests at home and abroad and are protecting and projecting the values Canadians hold dear.

At the same time, we have maintained an ongoing focus on building a strong, modern, capable military by investing in the tools and resources needed to meet the challenges of the future in the next 50 years and beyond.

Members will know that our Canadian government has invested almost $1 billion annually in increasing the National Defence budget since we took office in 2006. We now have an annual budget of roughly $20 billion and we have in our employ over 133,000 committed Canadians, both civilian and military.

The main estimates that we have before us this evening reflect our evolving operational context and represent the government's plan to continue the stable and responsible provision of resources to support National Defence over the next fiscal year.

We are currently in the fourth year of implementing our comprehensive 20 year Canada first defence strategy announced in Halifax by the Prime Minister in 2008. As I told a Senate committee on security and defence last week, even though we are still in the early implementation years of this visionary strategy, we have already delivered some impressive achievements across all four pillars of personnel, equipment, infrastructure and readiness.

We have not only successfully expanded the size of both our regular and reserve force, but we have also significantly improved the quality of care we provide them.

We have added $100 million to the base health budget of the Canadian Forces since 2006, bringing the annual health budget up to well over $450 million. Through the creation of the Joint Personnel Support Unit, we have helped provide streamlined one-stop service for our military personnel, our ill and injured, our veterans, as well as families through a network of 24 integrated personnel support centres located at bases around the country. Through programs, such as caring for our own, legacy of care and soldier on, we are helping provide comprehensive medical care, counselling and other services to ill and injured as well as their families through the process of recovery, rehabilitation and reintegration. Through programs like soldier on or shoulder to shoulder, we are strengthening and facilitating access to counselling, care and support services for families and their loved ones in the Canadian Forces and for members who have made the ultimate sacrifice.

However, we continue to do more. We are committed to supporting our military personnel in every sense of the word and, of course, that includes providing them with the tools they need to do their important work.

I am very pleased and proud to be here tonight with the Associate Minister of National Defence who will be speaking to some of those improvements that we have seen in the past number of years.

Our government has already made great strides in delivering modernized capabilities, programs and equipment to support military operational needs. We have initiated numerous other projects to ensure members of the Canadian Forces continue to have the necessary tools to protect Canadians and support our allies well into the future.

We have also made important investments in renewing our military infrastructure across the country by refurbishing or replacing numerous buildings, training facilities and personnel support centres to enhance the health, quality of life and effectiveness of our standing military units.

Finally, we have increased our focus on equipment maintenance, personnel, training and joint exercises, including in the High Arctic and in partnership with our allies and civilian partners to further enhance flexibility, interoperational ability and operational readiness of our military.

The government is very proud of these achievements and very proud of each and every member of the incredible National Defence team. We believe they have made a direct contribution to the outstanding operational success of the Canadian Forces in recent years. Our investments and support helped our men and women in uniform provide emergency assistance to the people of Haiti in January 2010, even while they were helping secure the Vancouver Olympics and the G20 and G8 venues in Ontario. They have helped us to stop the Gadhafi regime from attacking its own people in March of last year, even while our combat patrols were fighting insurgency in Afghanistan.

Canadians too are proud of their military’s accomplishments. They recognize the sacrifice that these extraordinary men and women make each day and they expect us to recognize and support them in their service to Canada and to Canadians.

Our government can truthfully say that our investment plan has already proven in its ability to deliver tangible benefits to the defence of Canada. The approval of these estimates is crucial to maintaining this quality of support for the years to come.

I want to assure hon. members that our estimates reflect the broader economic goals of the Government of Canada. That is why we have included the reallocation of $525 million from the National Defence budget to support government-wide efficiency efforts, slowing growth and ensuring that progress will be there in critical areas for the foreseeable future. That is why one of the key areas of DND's main estimates for the fiscal year is nearly $1.5 billion lower than the year 2011-12.

As Minister of Defence, I am committed to providing Canadians with a modern, agile, responsive and, most of all, sustainable military that reflects both the security and fiscal needs of our country. In today's economic climate, this is an ambitious objective and one that will extend well beyond the timeframe that is captured in these estimates.

As always, we have an incredible National Defence team committed to that goal. For a few years now, we have been pursuing a number of efforts to review National Defence programming in an effort to optimize our investments in capability, in effect changing the very way we do business in National Defence, so as to maximize the efficiencies of our headquarters and administration, and reallocate internal resources toward what matters most to Canadians, and that is tangible operational output. These efforts will help the National Defence team not only to operate within the fiscal environment, but also to ensure that we become leaner, more agile and better positioned to respond to unpredictable security challenges in the future.

Although the conclusion of our combat operations in Afghanistan and of NATO operations in Libya may have temporarily provided us with an opportunity to catch our breath as an institution and focus on longer-term priorities, there is simply no way to know where or when the next major crisis—or series of crises—will occur that might test the capacity, flexibility or readiness of our forces.

We owe that to our citizens. We certainly owe that to our allies. However, most of all, we owe that to the men and women in uniform who will answer the call when it comes and who will rely on the training, the equipment and support that we are investing in now to give them the ability to get the job done and return home to their families safely.

I want to take a moment to thank all of those brave soldiers of the Canadian Forces who accept this unlimited liability, this massive responsibility that we ask of them, and I thank their families for supporting them and standing behind them in this time.

I also take this opportunity to thank members present for their interest and continued support for the Canadian Forces and the defence of Canada. I welcome their questions here this evening.

[Peter Penashue, Conservative, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs and President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Madam Chair, in his earlier remarks, the Minister of National Defence mentioned the importance of investing in renewing our military infrastructure. This emphasis that he places on infrastructure renewal is demonstrated in his recent announcement of the three new infrastructure projects valued at $62 million for the environmental remediation at 5 Wing Goose Bay in my riding of Labrador.

Could you please inform the committee of the whole of the importance that our government places on environmental stewardship of lands, on the Department of National Defence and on our commitment to conducting operations in ways that protect human health and the environment, as well as ensuring it fully complies with the government's environmental legislation, regulation and guidelines?

[The Chair, NDP, Denise Savoie]

Before the minister responds, I would like to remind all members as we begin this evening to direct all their comments through the Chair to the appropriate minister.

There are three minutes left. The hon. Minister of National Defence.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, this issue around Goose Bay is one of great interest to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. It is certainly a high priority for the Department of National Defence when it comes to such things as environmental programs.

As a good environmental steward, the Department of National Defence has been addressing a number of environmental problems that we inherited, quite frankly, over a long period of time. With respect to Goose Bay, he is right, we had the opportunity together to make a significant announcement of a project in Happy Valley-Goose Bay for $62 million for environmental remediation of 5 Wing Goose Bay.

The department continues to work on contaminated sites and hazardous wastes in managing this project in a safe and prudent fashion. We have taken important steps to move ahead in environmental remediation. We have seen a number of other projects that will move forward in the future as well, projects that have a value of $300 million when it comes to the remediation activities that go back as far as 2009.

Other investments in the great province of Newfoundland and Labrador in 2009 include the $42.5 million investment for the construction of a facility to house 91 construction engineering flight, as well as the construction of two multi-purpose facilities to consolidate 9 Wing unit support, and infrastructure projects at the base that include runway improvements and housing upgrades.

I am also proud to say that we have taken great strides to work closely with the local community and with the aboriginal community. We continue to do so to make use of the spectacular base that is 5 Wing Goose Bay.

[John Carmichael, Conservative, Don Valley West, ON]

Madam Chair, in the minister's remarks to the committee of the whole, he mentioned several of the programs and initiatives that the government has launched to provide care and support for our brave men and women in uniform. After a decade of service in Afghanistan and the unusually high operational tempo of the past two years, we must make certain that our ill and injured receive the help that they so rightly deserve. However, this has fallen through the cracks in previous governments.

Could the minister please tell the committee of the whole how his department has made improvements on mental health services?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, I am pleased to be here in the presence, in particular, of the Chief of Defence Staff, General Natynczyk. He has been a leader in this regard, addressing these issues specifically.

On the resource side we have seen an additional $100 million, I mentioned that earlier, directly invested in the important mental health and overall health budget of the Canadian Forces. We have put in place a number of programs that encourage members of the forces and their families and veterans to come forward and address these issues of mental health, address the stigma around these issues.

As a department, we have received national recognition from the Mental Health Association of Canada. We continue to make these investments because we understand that, with the high operational tempo that we have seen in recent years in Afghanistan, we have members of the Canadian Forces and their families who need that support. That is why any changes we are seeing now will not affect direct core health services, particularly those around mental health treatment.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Madam Chair, could the minister tell the committee of the whole, what is the government document that gives the basis for first strike capability?

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

Madam Chair, there has been a lot of research, a lot of work and a lot of studies carried out with respect to the methodology and appropriate replacement of our aging CF-18s. A lot of these issues will be forthcoming once we have the Auditor General's recommendations fleshed out.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Madam Chair, I asked for the document. What document does the Government of Canada have for deciding to enter into first strike capability?

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

Madam Chair, if I may, as Canada's CF-18s are nearing the end of their usable lives, we must acquire replacements for fighter capability to serve our needs.

We cannot know all of the potential threats that Canada may face in the future. However, as outlined in the Canada first defence strategy, the Royal Canadian Air Force requires these replacement aircraft. We are looking for a multi-role capability. There will be other decisions made, and those will be forthcoming.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Sir, the question is very simple. What is the document? Where is it? You have made a decision that you want to make Canada into a first strike nation. Where is the document? Where is the basis for it?

[The Chair, NDP, Denise Savoie]

Order. Again, before the hon. minister responds, I would like to remind everyone to direct their comments through the Chair to the appropriate minister.

The hon. associate minister.

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

Madam Chair, at this point in time, we do not have all of the requisite requirements detailed. Those issues will be forthcoming once a definite decision is made. That decision will be forthcoming.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Madam Chair, am I to understand from the minister's response that the Government of Canada has no document which requires that Canada have first strike capability? Is that the answer the hon. minister is giving?

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

Madam Chair, the requirements are of a high level. They are dealing with a multi-role capability, not a strike capability per se.

The hon. member opposite may recall that we have tendered stacks and stacks of documents for the committee to review, among which would be some of these answers that he is seeking.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Madam Chair, I just make note that we had to actually cite the government for contempt before it produced what it produced.

What the minister seems to be saying at this point is that the government, since 2006, has not had a document that requires that Canada have first strike capability. Is that correct, minister?