House of Commons Hansard #120 of the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was chair.
Matthew Kellway NDP Beaches—East York, ON
Madam Chair, we are really down the rabbit hole on this one because all of that has no credibility whatsoever.
That is three times we are all aware that the government made a decision to buy this fighter jet. Then it even named the very secretariat the associate minister has been referring to as the F-35 secretariat.
I will start on a new line of questioning.
How many DND and Canadian Forces staff have been assigned to the joint strike fighter office in Washington, D.C.?
Julian Fantino Conservative Vaughan, ON
Madam Chair, I do not have that answer available immediately, but we will undertake to provide it to the member opposite.
Matthew Kellway NDP Beaches—East York, ON
Madam Chair, the associate minister has ample resources with him tonight to answer that very simple question, and I expect an answer this evening forthwith. I will give the associate minister another opportunity.
National Defence--Main Estimates, 2012-13Business of SupplyGovernment Orders
Conservative
Julian Fantino Conservative Vaughan, ON
Madam Chair, it appears we have five staff members assigned.
Matthew Kellway NDP Beaches—East York, ON
Madam Chair, it seems one just has to push a little bit.
Could the associate minister or anybody from the other side please describe for us the assignments of these five staff persons? What exactly do they do there in the JSF office?
Julian Fantino Conservative Vaughan, ON
Madam Chair, they are basically working alongside our partner nations' personnel. There are eight other countries involved in the development of the joint strike fighter program. Our people are working in those particular areas. I do not know what more I can answer.
Matthew Kellway NDP Beaches—East York, ON
Madam Chair, every year the joint strike fighter office in Washington, D.C., provides Canada with what are termed bilateral cost breakdowns for the F-35. It provides those to the Department of National Defence. They are based on the selected acquisition reports, which I have here, from December 31, 2001. It is a very comprehensive, lengthy, detailed document.
Is our staff involved in the preparation of this Canadianized costing data?
Matthew Kellway NDP Beaches—East York, ON
Madam Chair, how many years have we been receiving these bilateral cost breakdowns from the joint strike fighter office?
Julian Fantino Conservative Vaughan, ON
Madam Chair, to the member opposite, Canada has been a partner in the development of the joint strike fighter program for the last 15 years, dating back to 1997, when the Liberal government of the day engaged Canada in this particular project, which we are continuing today.
Matthew Kellway NDP Beaches—East York, ON
Madam Chair, is that to say we have been receiving bilateral cost breakdowns from that joint strike fighter office for 15 years?
Julian Fantino Conservative Vaughan, ON
Madam Chair, apparently the reports have been coming in since about 2001.
Matthew Kellway NDP Beaches—East York, ON
Madam Chair, that is interesting. We have over a decade's worth of Canadianized costing data coming right out of the Department of Defense in the United States.
Could the associate minister please let me know whether these bilateral cost breakdowns include life cycle costs?
Julian Fantino Conservative Vaughan, ON
Madam Chair, the program is led by the Americans.
The definitive Canadian costing is really what the Auditor General has recommended. We are following through on his recommendation. This is why we have put in place the independent secretariat, which will assist us with those answers. There is a seven-step action plan in place. All of these things are part of what was recommended by the Auditor General, with respect to Canadian figures.
Matthew Kellway NDP Beaches—East York, ON
Madam Chair, I can confirm that the Auditor General has identified the existence of these bilateral cost breakdowns. It is in paragraph 2.67 of his report, page 26.
However, my question is whether those bilateral cost breakdowns, which come out of the joint strike fighter office to the Department of National Defence, include life cycle costs?
Julian Fantino Conservative Vaughan, ON
Madam Chair, as we know from the Auditor General's findings and report, these are issues that he wished to be determined. He made a recommendation to that effect.
We are diligently working to comply. To that end, the hon. member should be respectful of this process, as we certainly are.
Matthew Kellway NDP Beaches—East York, ON
Madam Chair, we have had 11 years of bilateral cost breakdowns by the testimony provided by the Associate Minister of National Defence tonight. I have a very simple question. In those 11 years of bilateral cost breakdowns, are there or are there not life cycle costs? Or is the minister refusing to answer that question?
Julian Fantino Conservative Vaughan, ON
Madam Chair, the hon. member opposite needs to again reflect on the Auditor General's findings and his report. In his recommendation there are issues with respect to how figures have been compiled and reported. There are some discrepancies as he identified. We are endeavouring, in a responsible, systematic way, to make determinations which will help us make decisions.
Matthew Kellway NDP Beaches—East York, ON
Madam Chair, no kidding. That is exactly why we are here tonight, that is exactly why I am asking that question and that is exactly why I expect a forthright response from the Associate Minister of National Defence. The time is over for hiding those costs.
The Auditor General has identified for all of us the fact that there are bilateral cost breakdowns that are put together, now we know, with the help of DND staff who come to DND every year and have been doing so for 11 years. I want to know this evening from the Associate Minister of National Defence whether they do or do not include life cycle costs.
Julian Fantino Conservative Vaughan, ON
Madam Chair, I would suggest that the hon. member not get too excited because he is liable to get the same answers to the truthful requirement of being respectful of the Auditor General.
The budget for the F-35 acquisition and sustainment is based on actual detailed estimates, calculations of which have been in dispute. There is no order and no decision made to acquire the F-35. We are working diligently, as was recommended, to determine those figures so as we can make informed decisions.
Matthew Kellway NDP Beaches—East York, ON
Madam Chair, if that associate minister had half the respect for this House that I have for the Auditor General, then he would be answering this question tonight forthrightly. It is a very simple question. There is lots of help sitting around the table here tonight and any one of them can answer. Do those documents that we have received for 11 years include life cycle costs, yes or no?
Julian Fantino Conservative Vaughan, ON
Madam Chair, in my earlier life I felt that citizens were respectful of due process and others. I would suggest to the member opposite that maybe he should exercise some of that.
In any event, the same recommendation also asked the department to start full life cycle planning for the preferred option in the definition phase of its project management process. Again, a lot of these things are in the works as per the recommendation of the Auditor General.
Matthew Kellway NDP Beaches—East York, ON
Madam Chair, these things have been in the works for 11 years with costing data, Canadianized costing data, put together with the help of Department of National Defence officials. I have a very simple question and perhaps this member who is speaking out now has an answer but we also, I would note, have the Chief of Defence Staff around the table, we have the Deputy Minister for National Defence around the table. Surely someone on that side of the aisle will answer this very simple question for us tonight. Or are they all refusing?
Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS
Madam Chair, I know the hon. member is having a Matlock moment and thinks he is in a court of law.
I want to clarify that these costs have been available to our department since 2006. They do not include, and this is the important nuance here, Canadian, life cycle costs.
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake, MB
Madam Chair, it is great that we are able to get together tonight to discuss the estimates for national defence. It is vital for us to remember how these funds are put to use and impact upon the safety of our country.
Over the past few years the Canadian Forces have been extremely busy and Canadians have taken notice. They have seen and heard reports of the work that has been done by our troops in places like Haiti, Afghanistan and Libya. I welcome the well-deserved attention and credit it gives to our men and women in uniform. However, in many ways, it does not give a complete picture of the work they have done and what they continue to do day in and day out on our behalf and for our benefit. The primary duty of our armed forces is to protect and defend Canadians right here at home.
This sense of priority is reflected in the very title of the guiding document of the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces called the Canada first defence strategy. The Canada first defence strategy lays out six core missions that the Canadian Forces members are expected to be able to perform to keep Canada and Canadians safe. Four of them relate directly to what our friends in uniform call the home game. I would like to go over each of these briefly to underscore just how much our men and women in uniform are doing for us domestically and all too often out of sight.
The Canadian Forces members stand ready and able to respond to a major terrorist attack because of their elite counterterrorism unit, the Joint Task Force Two. The unit is ready to respond at a moment's notice because of its healthy partnerships with law enforcement and intelligence agencies.
These relationships also have been extremely valuable in assisting the Canadian Forces members in another of their assigned missions: supporting a major event here in Canada. The Canadian Forces have gained experience in this over the last few years. They supported the RCMP and local law enforcement in providing security for the Vancouver Olympics. Using everything from fighter jets to skis, they monitored and helped secure 10,000 square kilometres of some of the most challenging geography in Canada. The good work helped ensure that the focus of the games stayed where it belonged: on the athletes, not on the security.
A few months later, more than 2,800 Canadian Forces personnel successfully performed a similar task when Canada welcomed world leaders to the G8 and G20 meetings.
Another core mission that the Canadian Forces have undertaken time and again is to support civilian authorities during a crisis right here in Canada. The Canadian Forces have a long tradition in this area, particularly when the crisis in question is a natural disaster. Over the last year or so, our men and women in uniform have been called upon repeatedly to help local authorities with such challenges. In May of last year, the forces responded with roughly 800 personnel to the worst flooding the Richelieu Valley and Montérégie region had seen in over a century.
Simultaneously, nearly 2,000 troops and several aircraft were dispatched to help deal with the flooding along the Assiniboine River right in Manitoba, where they helped coordinate and carry out a broad effort in sand-bagging, evacuation, infrastructure protection and logistical assistance. On behalf of my constituents of Selkirk—Interlake, I want to thank the Canadian Forces again for the work they did along Lake Manitoba.
Later that summer, just under 400 soldiers were deployed to Souris, Manitoba, again to help reinforce dikes near the town in the face of yet more flooding. Members of the Canadian Forces spent much of July working to evacuate over 3,600 residents from several of Ontario's northern and first nation communities that were threatened by forest fires. I want to thank the members of the Canadian Forces for their heroic work right across Canada, giving us peace of mind knowing they are always standing by and ready to serve during times of need.
Regardless of which contingency missions the Canadian Forces may be undertaking at any given time, they are also responsible 24/7 and 365 days a year for the fourth mission laid out in the Canada first defence strategy: the conduct of daily domestic and continental operations. The activities carried out under this umbrella are as diverse as they are important. They are the ones the forces plan for in advance or that they carry out routinely. To call them routine does them no justice because they involve challenging and often dangerous tasks, such as search and rescue or sovereignty patrols in the Arctic. They include other less visible operations, such as Op Palaci, which sees regular forces and reserve soldiers provide avalanche control assistance to Parks Canada by firing artillery in and around Rogers Pass, or Operation Sabot, where military helicopters and their crews have supported the RCMP in its marijuana surveillance and eradication program. In 2011 alone, this cooperation led to the seizure of over 63,000 marijuana plants.
This fourth category of domestic mission also includes ongoing air defence patrols under Norad. This was another routine task that became a part of life and death on the morning of September 11, 2001. Since that day, the service performed by our fighter pilots has flown below the radar, even though Canada and U.S. fighter aircraft conduct around 200 precautionary intercepts of civilian and military aircraft every year under the direction of Norad. This close co-operation with the U.S. highlights our government's long-standing recognition that Canadian security is intrinsically linked to that of the entire continent, something that is acknowledged in the Canada first defence strategy.
In addition to their purely domestic activities, the Canadian Forces continue to work hand in hand with our single closest ally, the United States.
The defence team does this in a number of ways.
One is through Norad itself, which after more than 50 years is still the world's only binational command structure responsible to both the Governments of Canada and of the United States. It monitors and defends our aerospace and has taken on new responsibilities in keeping watch over our Maritime operations.
Another is through the Permanent Joint Board on Defense, which for over 70 years has acted as a forum for political and military engagement on a wide range of defence issues.
In today's increasingly globalized world, both Canada and the United States understand that we need to look beyond our bilateral relationship to secure a respective domestic security. That is why we are working together to build deeper partnerships in the Americas as a whole through the Inter-American Defense Board, the Conference of Defence Ministers of the Americas and a trilateral meeting of Canadian, U.S. and Mexican defence ministers. We are backing up our participation in these fora with concrete co-operation in the region, like bilateral training initiatives, disaster assistance, most notably after the earthquake in Haiti, and counter-narcotic operations in the Caribbean and eastern Pacific. All this activity contributes to a safe neighbourhood for Canada, which translates into safety for Canadians.
Our government has given careful thought to what our forces need to do to keep Canada and Canadians safe. These are clearly laid out in the Canada first defence strategy and our men and women in uniform have worked here at home to fulfill them. Time and again they have responded when our constituents have been in danger or need. The defence team has also gone beyond our borders to work alongside our neighbours and our regional partners, all in the interests of protecting Canadians. All of this hard work, long-standing co-operation and forward thinking has kept, and will continue to keep, our country safe. For this we owe the Canadian Forces our gratitude and the means to successfully continue their important work.
I have a couple of questions I would like to ask the Minister of National Defence.
Our men and women in uniform have established themselves as leaders in the world for their professionalism and dedication. They are respected among our allies and, in my opinion, they are second to none. Yet as proud as they are, there is no doubting that a lengthy mission, such as what we have experienced in Afghanistan, can indeed take its toll and they need us now to support them.
As chair of the Standing Committee on National Defence, I am glad to advise the House that our committee will be undertaking a study on the care of our ill and injured, both the visible and invisible injuries that plague many of our Canadian Forces members.
Last summer, the minister announced military health care infrastructure improvements in 17 Wing in Winnipeg, in my home province. Could the minister inform us as to how this initiative will ensure that our Canadian Forces personnel will continue to receive the full spectrum of first-class health care they so rightly deserve?