House of Commons Hansard #25 of the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was cyberbullying.
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, this is addressed in the very document that the member cites, and I would refer him to that document.
Mr. Wright was very clear that Mr. Duffy was going to repay his own expenses. He never suggested at any time that he was going to pay those expenses, quite the contrary. For that reason, Mr. Wright no longer works for me and Mr. Duffy is no longer a member of the Conservative caucus.
Thomas Mulcair NDPLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Prime Minister said that he had learned on May 15 that the Conservative Party would be paying Mike Duffy's legal fees.
Why did the Prime Minister continue to say for months afterwards that Nigel Wright had acted on his own?
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, Mr. Duffy said that he had repaid taxpayers for his inappropriate expenses. However, that was not the case at all. It was Mr. Wright who did so. When I learned this, we took action. That is why Mr. Wright no longer works for me and Mr. Duffy is no longer a member of the Conservative caucus.
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
Mr. Speaker, the RCMP said Irving Gerstein called Deloitte twice to interfere with its audit of Mike Duffy's expenses. He tried to back channel audit information and then pressed on hoping that Nigel Wright's $90,000 payment would make that audit go away.
Will the Prime Minister please explain to Canadians why Senator Gerstein still enjoys his complete confidence?
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, once again, what is at issue here is that Mr. Duffy made claims to repay inappropriate expenses when he in fact had not done that. That was actually done by Mr. Wright. Obviously, that information was not properly disclosed to me or to others. For that reason, those two individuals are under investigation and we have taken action against the appropriate individuals.
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
Mr. Speaker, the RCMP said that on February 22, Irving Gerstein offered to “assist”, telling Nigel Wright that Conservative donor money could be used to repay Mike Duffy's housing expenses. He is still in the Conservative caucus. He is still the chair of the Senate banking committee. He is still in charge of their donors' money.
Why does Senator Gerstein still have the Prime Minister's complete confidence?
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, once again the member cites the RCMP. The RCMP is clear that there are two individuals who are under investigation, Mr. Duffy and Mr. Wright.
The issue at hand here is the fact Mr. Duffy made claims to repay inappropriate expenses when he had not done so. Mr. Wright had done that on his behalf. He had not sought authority to do that. He had no approval to do that. That fact was misrepresented to me and to others. For that reason, we have taken action against the appropriate individuals.
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
Mr. Speaker, we know that Senator Gerstein said he would help Nigel Wright by providing Conservative donor money to repay Mike Duffy's debts, which, by the way, would have violated three sections of the Criminal Code.
Why is the Prime Minister still defending Senator Gerstein, and how can he still have confidence in him?
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, it is clear that two individuals are under investigation in relation to the fact that Mr. Duffy claimed that he repaid expenses, but did not. On the contrary, Mr. Wright did. Mr. Wright did not provide this information. He was not authorized to do it and he did not give me or anyone else that information. For that reason, we took action against the individuals concerned.
Thomas Mulcair NDPLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, is that the Prime Minister's code of ethics, the Criminal Code? In other words, if one is not under criminal investigation by the RCMP, no matter how reprehensible, it is not really wrong. Is that the standard that he is holding the government to?
What is the ethical difference between a $90,000 cheque from Nigel Wright and a $32,000 cheque from the Conservative Party? Here is a hint. The answer is not $58,000.
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, there are two individuals who are responsible for the payment in question, a payment that was made without authority and that was not properly reported or disclosed.
In this party, we hold those who undertake actions responsible for their own actions. Unlike the leader of the NDP, we do not slander a whole bunch of other people, and we do not forget for 17 years—
The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer
Order. The Prime Minister still has the floor. We need a bit of order.
The right hon. Prime Minister.
Stephen Harper Conservative Calgary Southwest, AB
Mr. Speaker, as soon as I became aware of this information I revealed it publicly and gave all of the information to investigators.
We do not do what the leader of the NDP does, forget for 17 years to provide this information to the—
Thomas Mulcair NDPLeader of the Opposition
Good to go, Mr. Speaker.
Mike Duffy did not have a health card from P.E.I. Mike Duffy did not pay his taxes in P.E.I. However, Mike Duffy wanted a guarantee from the PMO that he would keep his $1.3 million P.E.I. Senate seat. The Prime Minister's own staff agreed in writing that the Prime Minister himself would publicly state that Mike Duffy met the residency requirements to sit as a senator from P.E.I.
Again, did the Prime Minister know his office agreed in writing he would probably vouch for Mike Duffy as part of their cover-up deal? That is in fact what he did. Is he going to try to pretend he did not know?
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, once again, my position on this matter has been known for a very long time.
I listened to the comments from the leader of the NDP. He should once again read what the RCMP said. The RCMP interviewed everybody involved. The RCMP looked at thousands of emails. The RCMP said clearly that the Prime Minister had no knowledge of any such payment to Mr. Duffy. They are absolutely clear.
If the leader of the NDP had any honesty, he would accept that judgment.
Thomas Mulcair NDPLeader of the Opposition
In fact, Mr. Speaker, the RCMP documents show that Senator Irving Gerstein approved a plan to pay off Mike Duffy's expenses using party money. The documents also prove that Mr. Gerstein used his contacts at Deloitte to try to interfere in the Mike Duffy audit. That is what the documents show.
The Prime Minister now claims that he is all so terribly shocked by that behaviour. The only question is this: why is Senator Gerstein still sitting beside him in the Conservative caucus?
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, once again, there are two individuals under investigation, and of course it is not that individual. There was no payment of Mr. Duffy's inappropriate expenses by the party, but the leader of the NDP would be an expert in that, having received six figures worth of payments from his political party.
Thomas Mulcair NDPLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, the only reason there was no payment from the Conservative Party was because the price was too high. Are we talking principle or price?
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, what was inappropriate here was that Mr. Duffy claimed to have repaid inappropriate expenses when he had not done so.
On the contrary, it was Mr. Wright who paid those expenses, and those two individuals had not sought authority and had not properly disclosed that information. That is why, when we learned of that, we took the appropriate action.
Thomas Mulcair NDPLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, this story was fabricated in his office by people still working for the Conservatives. Where is the ethical principle? Why are they still there? Why have only two people been fired?
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Once again, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Wright was responsible for this. He is no longer in our employment. Mr. Duffy and other senators who broke rules have been dealt with harshly by the Senate, not simply exiting from the Conservative caucus but are under suspension without pay.
When presented with the facts, we have taken the appropriate action.
Thomas Mulcair NDPLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, let us look at those documents again. On page 45 of the RCMP document, Nigel Wright confirmed in an email that the Prime Minister knew that Mr. Wright had “personally assisted” Mike Duffy.
What did the Prime Minister know about the personal assistance that Mr. Wright gave Mr. Duffy, one clear answer for once.
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Once again, Mr. Speaker, I have addressed that issue on many occasions, but let me say that RCMP investigators concluded, after spending months looking at this, that they are not aware of any evidence that the Prime Minister was involved in the repayment or reimbursement of money to Senator Duffy or his lawyer. It could not be clearer than that.