Debates of Nov. 5th, 2013

Conservative Party of Canada

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Speaker, given the mess they are in, the Conservatives could have hung their heads in shame on the weekend. Instead, they acted like the people on the Titanic who celebrated as it was sinking.

They spent a weekend in Calgary with their heads in the sand, working harder on their regressive measures, such as measures to limit women's right to choose freely, and regressive taxes. They still have their reform policies—yes, indeed—but they have adopted Liberal reflexes to get out of their scandal. Where was the Senate in all this? Not a single word about it.

The Prime Minister is so desperate that he tried to put the blame on us, the Supreme Court, old Mother Hubbard, basically everyone except for the people truly responsible: his employees, the people working in his office, the people advising him, the people who signed cheques, the people who orchestrated a cover-up, the people he himself chose.

Canadians deserve better. They deserve the truth, and the NDP will do everything to get it.

White Poppy Campaign

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I call upon my colleagues in the Liberal Party and in the NDP to join with me in denouncing the ideological extremists who, this Remembrance Day, are defacing the poppy, and in doing so, disrespecting the courage, sacrifice and honour that generations of Canadian veterans have made for our freedom and for theirs.

The so-called white poppy campaign is an outrage. It dishonours our veterans.

I ask all parliamentarians to support my call to lay politics aside this Remembrance Day, leave the poppy in its glorious red and stand to remember the sacrifices of our veterans, and to not play crass political games this week and on November 11.

Ethics

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are disappointed in the Prime Minister.

He missed a golden opportunity this weekend to come clean about his role in the Senate expense scandal. No contrition; no apology.

Why will the Prime Minister not own up to his responsibility instead of telling Canadians that he could not care less?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it is, of course, an honour to serve in any chamber of the Parliament of Canada. When people are elected or named to the Senate, they should treat it as a great honour.

Obviously when we name people, we name people of high standing in Canadian society. We expect them to be able to follow the rules and conduct themselves in a way that shows integrity.

When that is not done, we take our responsibilities. I obviously urge the Senate to take its responsibilities and apply proper sanction to senators who have not respected the rules.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, let us talk about following rules and let us talk about assuming responsibilities.

The Prime Minister's own office is under criminal investigation by the RCMP. Now the Prime Minister wants others held responsible, as he just said, but this is his staff and these are his senators.

How long will Canadians have to wait before the Prime Minister accepts his own responsibility? Why is he the only one who is never accountable?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, of course that statement is not true.

As we know, certain individuals and some senators are under investigation. When we learned that they had not conducted themselves in a proper manner, they left the Conservative caucus. They remain under investigation.

I think the facts are absolutely clear. They have not acted in a way that respects taxpayers' dollars and have done so on a very large scale. The consequence for that in our judgment should be that they be removed from the public payroll. We urge the Senate to do that immediately.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, can the Prime Minister confirm that the RCMP has requested documents from his office?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, on the contrary, I think that the NDP leader is talking about a letter that the RCMP wrote, I presume, to Mr. Duffy's lawyer.

I think what the Leader of the Opposition is referring to is a letter the RCMP has written, I gather, to the lawyer for Mr. Duffy, urging him to co-operate with the RCMP investigation. Of course, we would all urge that.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Okay then, Mr. Speaker, let us talk about his co-operation with the RCMP.

Can he be perfectly clear, yes or no? Will he turn over all of the documents to the RCMP, yes or no?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as we have said since the beginning, we are helping the RCMP by turning over all of the documents.

We have been very clear from the beginning. This office will give the RCMP any and all assistance it requires. It is important that those who committed the acts in question be held accountable and that they be held accountable in the Senate. Of course if there is anything beyond that that investigators think they should be charged with, they will get full assistance from our office in doing so, because we demand that kind of accountability.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, that works out well because Canadians also demand that kind of accountability.

One simple question, and can the Prime Minister be crystal clear, will he table all of those documents in the House of Commons so that all Canadians can see them? Yes or no.

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the responsibility of this government is to make sure all accountability is followed. We are obviously making sure authorities are assisted with their look into the various individuals, as is their responsibility.

Let me be clear once again, because the leader of the NDP keeps trying to insinuate some role on my part. I have been very clear. I did not know about any payment from Mr. Wright to Mr. Duffy, or about the story to deceive Canadians about that. I do not approve that. Had my authorization been sought, it would not have been granted.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in the “latest version of events”, Irving Gerstein, the head of the Conservative fund, admitted over the weekend to being aware of the plan to repay Mike Duffy's expenses.

Between February and May, did the Prime Minister's chief fundraiser ever tell the Prime Minister about his chief of staff's scheme to pay Mike Duffy's expenses?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

No, Mr. Speaker. As I have said repeatedly, I did not know anything about that until May 15. That is, of course, the reason why Mr. Wright is no longer on the public payroll and also why we believe that Mr. Duffy should also no longer be on the public payroll.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if the Prime Minister's chief fundraiser knew about the scheme and kept it a secret, why is he still the Prime Minister's chief fundraiser? If Nigel Wright deceived the Prime Minister, so did Senator Gerstein. Why is he still on the public payroll? Why is he still a senator?

Everyone's story keeps changing, including the Prime Minister's. Canadians deserve straight answers. Will the Prime Minister set an example for everyone involved and testify under oath?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the actions in question here are the actions of Mr. Wright and Mr. Duffy. Mr. Wright is no longer on the public payroll as a consequence of his actions, and Mr. Duffy should no longer be on the public payroll.

While we are talking about changing stories, it is interesting to hear the Liberal Party demanding some kind of sanction when, in fact, for the past two weeks Liberals have been doing everything in their power to protect the club over there in the Senate and make sure nobody is ever held accountable for anything. It is time that the Liberal senators supported some serious sanction for senators who have violated public trust.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, last weekend, another fact in this sordid saga emerged. Senator Gerstein admitted that he was aware of the arrangement between Nigel Wright and Mike Duffy. The Prime Minister fired Nigel Wright because of his cheque and his silence. He admitted that Senator Gerstein did not tell him anything either, yet Senator Gerstein still has his job. This double standard is deeply worrisome.

Will the Prime Minister testify under oath?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we are talking about the actions and responsibility of Mr. Wright and Mr. Duffy. Mr. Wright is no longer on the public payroll, and Mr. Duffy should not be either.

Talk about hypocrisy. Over the past two weeks, the Liberal Party has done everything in its power to protect senators who broke the rules. It is time the Liberals stepped up to support harsh sanctions against senators who betrayed the public trust.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, we remind the Prime Minister that 59 members of that club were named by him. Of course, he is the same person who once swore up and down that he would never name an unelected senator. He has broken Brian Mulroney's record.

When the Prime Minister met with Nigel Wright and Mike Duffy about repaying the illegal expenses, did he say “Nigel would make the arrangements”, yes or no?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

No, Mr. Speaker. It is interesting to hear this from the leader of the NDP. The senators, the vast majority of them, support taking strong action in this measure, as they should.

Of course, I would just point out for the record that I only appointed senators after the NDP and the others tried to fill the vacancies themselves in the Senate.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

There he goes again, Mr. Speaker. He has a slight tendency to forget that people can actually fact check after question period.

Just to be clear, the Prime Minister, therefore, does admit that Nigel Wright was, indeed, present when he met with Mike Duffy, just the three of them.

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have already been clear about the facts around that.

I indicated to Mr. Duffy and I indicated to all members of our caucus that I thought it was not right for him to claim expenses that he had not incurred. That view was communicated directly and personally to Mr. Duffy.

Afterwards, obviously, my wishes on that were not carried out. The public was deceived on that. For that reason, Mr. Wright is no longer on the payroll and Mr. Duffy should not be either.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, now the Prime Minister is asking Canadians to believe that Nigel Wright was present but that he gave him no instructions. That is just not credible.

Was the original plan from the PMO to have the Conservative Party pay off Mike Duffy's expenses when the bill was just $32,000, yes or no?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, once again, my view from the beginning, conveyed to Mr. Duffy, was that he had no right to claim expenses from the Senate that he had not actually incurred out of his pocket. I expected that Mr. Duffy would be the one to repay those expenses. That is what I was told had been done. That is what the Canadian people were told was done. That was not true. For that reason, Mr. Wright is no longer on the payroll of my office, no longer on the public payroll, and Mr. Duffy should not be so either.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I remind the Prime Minister that these actions took place in what is known as the “Prime Minister's Office”—so, he wants to be in charge; he just does not want to be responsible.

I would remind him that Senator Gerstein was handing out the money of the Conservative Party.

Last time I checked, for the time being, he is still the leader of the Conservative Party. He is responsible. Why will he not own up to that?