Debates of Feb. 14th, 2013

Opposition Motion--Missing Aboriginal Women

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, Service Canada; the hon. member for Malpeque, Employment Insurance.

Questions and comments, the hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I note that my colleague from the Liberal Party and I knew one another way back when all of this happened in this case. In fact, I was policing in Manitoba at the time and he was a politician.

I would ask the member to please help me understand this, and I think all Canadians want to understand it. The member has gone back to the 1970s and 1980s when all of this started, when there were already committees looking at this in the province of Manitoba. However, the Liberal Party was in power for 13 years. In the six years we have been here, the Conservative government has been able to put forward an RCMP National Centre for Missing Persons and Unidentified Remains, improved law enforcement databases, provided money to Sisters in Spirit, et cetera. Why on earth did the Liberal government do nothing? If it did do something, what was it?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, as one of my colleagues suggested, we had the Kelowna accord, which was a fairly significant achievement.

My speech focused a lot on the independent aboriginal inquiry in the province of Manitoba. I referenced when the incident occurred, which was 1971, yet the inquiry did not happen until 1987. During 12 of those years, the New Democrats were in government and 4 of those years, the Progressive Conservatives were in government.

At the end of the day, when we talk about the national perspective in Canada, we need to put it in the perspective that justice has been denied for many years, as with the province of Manitoba. Today we are seeing a much higher demand for a public inquiry.

If the member wants to illustrate that I am wrong on this, she could go back to 1990s and tell me how many questions on this issue were raised by the Reform Party or the New Democratic Party compared to the number of questions that have been raised on the issue in the last six or seven years. Things are at a point where there is a much higher expectation. We saw that at the provincial level and we see it at a national level.

The issue is whether we prepared to put partisan politics aside in order to finally bring justice to the issue.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I have a very simple question for my colleague for Winnipeg North. How confident is he in this process through the motion before us?

This special committee would be in a setting where Conservative colleagues have a majority. This is a government that is literally dismantling the country in terms of the environment, natural resources, institutions of human rights and so on.

What is the member's response to the families of the victims that do not trust the institutions and the police anymore?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, that is why I said so much would depend on the House leaders of each respective political party and the leadership of each party. That group, with support from the appropriate ministers and critics, will provide the guidance going forward into this committee.

We know for sure that the government is going to be voting for the motion, meaning that there will a parliamentary group will be established and there will be a committee, if the government holds true on its statements and votes in favour of the motion. A lot will depend on the personalities who sit on the committee in the first number of days as they try to build those relationships.

My colleague, the critic for the environment from the Liberal Party, was talking about trying to build relationships before things got under way. That she experienced first hand in working on a special project within the aboriginal community, which I thought was wonderful.

The building of these relationships going into the committee are going to be very important. If it is too political and too partisan, then I suspect we will not necessarily get the type of results we hope to get.

[Raymond Côté, NDP, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, can we trust the member for Winnipeg North's party on this issue?

I would like to share something that happened during the 2006 campaign in Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière. At the time, I met with a couple of public servants at the employment insurance office who described their working conditions to me. They worked six days a week, plus three nights, to deal with the backlog of applications. This is not a new problem. When the Liberal Party was in power, it could have looked into the issue and done something about it.

How can we trust the Liberal Party members who raised this issue?

That is a legitimate question. It is a very good initiative, but still, it comes a little late.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, again, it is all in the attitude. We need to recognize that the federal NDP has never been a national government. As a result, all we really can do to try to get a sense of where it is at is look at where it has been in government.

If you believe you are clean on that issue, you are wrong. It is not. The NDP has made a mess of things on different issues. This is one of the files which it was sloppy on in the province of Manitoba.

I do not believe the NDP is any cleaner than any other party. I am prepared to have faith that the NDP will be approaching this in an apolitical fashion and I would hope the NDP will have faith knowing the Liberal party will do likewise. After all, Liberals are the ones who brought the motion forward. We have made the first gesture that it has to be done, but we appreciate what appears to be unanimous support.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

I want to remind all hon. members to direct their comments to the Chair. References to “you” are to the Chair, not to their colleagues.

The hon. member for Davenport.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, thank you for that timely reminder.

I want to underline the word that my hon. colleague from Winnipeg used, which was “gesture”. That party over in the corner is very good with gestures. One of the reason it is not in government anymore is because all it gave Canadians were gestures. It never backed those gestures up with actual action on the file.

Therefore, I want to ask the member how he squares the circle. Here we have a motion that falls short of calling for a full public inquiry, which all the speeches we hear from the corner suggest they also believe is necessary. However, that is not what the motion is about. Why are the Liberals calling for a committee to be struck and not a full public inquiry?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know if the member is in the NDP loop. My understanding is that the NDP is going to be supporting the motion. My understanding is that, like the Liberals, the NDP also wants to see a national independent public inquiry. I could be wrong but that is what I understood. I know the Liberals want that.

We want a national independent public inquiry. Other members have implied that this is what they want. I am also assuming the member is going to be voting for the Liberal motion at the same time. Therefore, if the members vote for the same motion and they want the same thing that we want in terms of a national independent public inquiry, he might be best to ask himself the very same question he asked me.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I am not exactly pleased to be speaking to this issue, but it is an honour to speak to it because I know many of the families who have lost these young girls, and my heart absolutely breaks for them. I just hope that all members of Parliament will continue this fight toward justice for these families. I know our government is committed to it, and I will be voting to support the motion to have a special committee in the House look at it.

However, when it comes right down to brass tacks, what is required is to find these girls. We need to find the perpetrators of these crimes, and our best shot at that is to empower police officers, investigators and analysts to do the work they do so well.

If members would allow, I will speak a bit about those officers and the work they are doing. Some of them are working today on these very cases. They take this work home with them. Their hearts are in this work. They want to find solutions for these families, and some of them have a very tough time dealing with the graphic images and stories. They do it because they love what they do, and they have dedicated their lives to serving their communities and these families in an attempt to get justice.

Having said that, I will talk about the task forces that presently exist across this country, something we have not heard much about. I commend the officers and civilian analysts who are involved. I will talk about Project Devote in Manitoba, which is of course where I spent eighteen and a half years policing. The Manitoba Integrated Task Force for Missing and Murdered Women is what I am talking about. It is located in the RCMP D Division headquarters, and Project Devote consists of RCMP, Winnipeg Police Service officers and RCMP civilian analysts, who have brought together a team of approximately 24 individuals who have the necessary knowledge, skills and abilities for these types of investigations. The focus of Project Devote is investigative, based on the review and recommendations made by the task force. In addition to these investigations, a proactive team was established to further enhance the ongoing efforts of dealing with exploited and at-risk persons.

We have heard some quotes from commissioners. Assistant Commissioner Bill Robinson, for example, from the RCMP, made a tremendous plea to ensure our officers have the tools. He said:

The team's efforts will focus on the investigation and prosecution of the person or persons responsible for these crimes. We are fully committed to providing answers to families and loved ones.

The Winnipeg police chief at the time, Keith McCaskill, said:

Members of the Task Force have worked diligently in reviewing files and their efforts are to be applauded.

I do not want members of this House to forget that, although we are talking about what we as parliamentarians can do, the hard work is being done right now by police officers across this country and civilians in the RCMP, who will continue this fight. I applaud their efforts. I commend them and I wish them all of the success in the world.

When I was policing, I was involved in some of these cases, and I think today about Felicia Solomon's case and a media release I had to put out about finding her body parts. I think about Sunshine Wood today, a young girl who went missing under our watch, and yet we have found no answers. I think about Nicolle Hands who was a single mother, and when I did that media release I thought, long and hard, about her children.

So I want Canadians to know that this government is very much committed to finding answers for those families, and I would implore Canadians who are watching today to please review the media releases and the articles that are out on the web. If anyone has any information that would lead to the successful resolution of these families' disappeared or murdered loved ones, they could contact the police tip line. In Manitoba specifically, it is 1-888-673-3316. Again, there are projects like this across the country, in Alberta, B.C. and Ontario, and they all have these task forces. I did not want to make this speech today without acknowledging all the hard work they do.

My colleagues from the NDP have repeatedly said today that no one trusts the police. I disagree with that wholeheartedly. I think that is disrespectful and they ought to be ashamed of themselves because 99% of police officers do a very good job. Not only do they do a very good job but they take their jobs to heart. They dismiss them in that way for political reasons, and I just do not think we are here for that. Let us talk about what the government is doing and has done and how we can work together to resolve this.

It is a serious issue, and the government has worked hard to make sure our streets are safer. That is why when this issue first arose, $5 million was provided to Sisters in Spirit, through the Native Women's Association of Canada, for its original research that showed the disturbingly high number of missing and murdered aboriginal women across Canada. That is when the government committed $25 million in 2010 to take some immediate action.

Before this commitment, the government had already been engaged in a series of specific initiatives to address the broader underlying causes that contribute to the greater vulnerability to violence of aboriginal women and girls in areas such as family violence prevention, economic security and prosperity, on-reserve housing, education, health and policing. As the reasons for the higher levels of vulnerability and violence are long standing, varied and interrelated, so must be the initiatives designed to address these very important issues.

The October 2010 announcement of $25 million over five years was for a seven-step strategy to improve the law enforcement and justice system responses to this criminal justice priority. All Canadians deserve to be safe in their communities and homes. The seven-step strategy complemented other major initiatives by the government to improve community safety for aboriginal women and girls, including through prevention efforts and significant investments in improving the socio-economic conditions of aboriginal people.

Two of the October 2010 initiatives fall within the mandate of Public Safety Canada. A new National Centre for Missing Persons and Unidentified Remains has been set up and will ultimately support and improve the investigation of missing persons cases across Canada. People listening should go to that website. I would encourage them to do what they can to review what is on that website. If anyone has information, I encourage them to contact their local authorities.

The centre's work will apply to all Canadian missing persons cases, but it includes a post for a dedicated, experienced aboriginal police officer from the National Aboriginal Policing Services to ensure a continuing focus on the specific issue of missing aboriginal women and girls. I hope the NDP member is not suggesting that aboriginal police officer is also not to be trusted, because I can assure everyone this aboriginal officer is working very diligently in his capacity on this issue.

The second initiative is supporting the development of community safety plans by aboriginal communities to reduce violence and improve the safety of aboriginal women within their communities.

Justice Canada is responsible for the remaining initiatives. A substantial amount of funding was provided directly to community organizations as part of their efforts to reduce violence and improve safety for aboriginal women and girls. Approximately $2 million, in fact, has gone directly to about 30 organizations for activities aimed at reducing violence against aboriginal women. For example, Justice Canada provided approximately $232,000 in funding to the Girls Action Foundation to support an aboriginal young women's leadership project aimed at increasing the confidence, skills and knowledge of young aboriginal women nationally so they are better equipped to implement community action plans that address violence and victimization.

Funding was also provided to the Canadian Red Cross to revise its highly regarded abuse prevention program directed specifically at aboriginal communities in Canada, which was entitled Walking the Prevention Circle, to adapt it into an online course and translate it into French. That program was developed by the Canadian Red Cross, as I said, over many years to raise awareness about the importance of breaking intergenerational cycles of violence and abuse. This tool is an important one in facilitating lasting change in aboriginal communities and has been used in a large number of aboriginal communities all across Canada.

Justice Canada also worked with the Aboriginal Research Institute and some 12 individual contractors across Canada to gather together best practices in the areas of violence reduction, aboriginal community development, victim services and law enforcement. The online national compendium produced from this work is designed to help aboriginal communities and groups improve the safety of aboriginal women within their own communities by building on what others have tried and found helpful.

The 2010 initiatives also included an additional $1 million annually to the victims fund, to help the provinces and territories adapt or develop culturally appropriate victim services for aboriginal victims of crime and enhance support for families of missing or murdered aboriginal women.

Victim services across the country have received funding to deliver culturally appropriate services to aboriginal victims of crime, and in particular aboriginal women who have experienced violence. Several of these provinces are developing and delivering specific services to support family members of missing and murdered aboriginal women and girls.

The Canadian Centre for Child Protection Inc. is working in collaboration with the Assembly of First Nations and the RCMP to raise awareness about programs available for first nations and aboriginal families in their search for missing children. MissingKids.ca, which is the Canadian Centre for Child Protection's missing children resource and response centre, is a central place for critical tools for parents and communities, as well as resources to prevent children from going missing. More projects are in development.

As I said, these new initiatives are in addition to existing programs, such as the National Crime Prevention Centre, the aboriginal justice strategy and programs funded by Status of Women Canada and Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada. Again, let us not forget all I said about those hard-working police officers who are working on these projects to address these cases.

This government has acknowledged the seriousness of this issue and moved to action. All members would agree that we can continue to do more, and we welcome the contribution of a special committee of the House on what else should be done to end the violence and prevent future generations of aboriginal women and girls from experiencing this violence. No woman or child in Canada should have to face violence.

We encourage all parties, all governments and all Canadians to work toward a violence-free Canada. If I might finish on this, when I asked the Liberal member about what had been done during the 13 years of Liberal government reign here in this House, I was very disturbed to hear that member say it all depends on how many questions are asked; that is when they act.

It is not about questions being asked, it is about finding these girls. It is about helping these families. It is about doing our duty as Canadians to make sure that happens. The best way to do that is to make sure the police have the tools they need, make sure these communities have the tools they need to prevent further disappearances, and make sure we work together and leave aside all the political rhetoric. Right now it does not matter.

What matters are these victims and these victims' families.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I will take my hon. colleague at her word and will leave some of the rhetoric aside.

It is a simple question that I have for her. Do the Conservatives believe that the high numbers of missing and murdered women in Canada constitute a public safety emergency? If not, why not?

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Mr. Speaker, our government has shown that this is a serious issue, and that is why we put $25 million toward a number of initiatives to prevent further exposure and to try to solve these missing cases.

It is imperative that all members here support initiatives that actually might lead to resolution. It is important that all members here proceed in a manner that actually helps the victims and their families.

I am assured today by some of the members from the NDP and some of the members from the Liberal Party, and I am sure that the Green Party member who is listening intently would probably agree as well, that this is a serious issue. The government has taken action, and we intend to listen to the special committee in the House to see what more we can do. However, we are going to support the police officers who are busy doing the investigative part, which is the best solution.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, one of the things I acknowledged shortly after standing up and addressing the issue is the fact that I was really quite encouraged to hear the government was going to be supporting the motion.

I made it clear that we still want to see that full public national inquiry. We see the merit in that. At the very least, there is some movement forward and we do appreciate that.

The question I have for the member is: Can she provide some of her thoughts as to when she would like to see this committee up and running? Does she envision the committee up and running in the month of April, or May? Can the member give some sort of indication as to what her personal preference would be in terms of when the committee should be up and running?

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Mr. Speaker, as has been stated here, it sounds as if we have unanimous support from all parties with regard to setting up this special committee of the House. I am not an expert on how long that takes. That is something that I would leave to the whips and the House leaders to discuss between them, but I am encouraged by the support that I hear here today.

I would ask that when the members have an opportunity to stand following my brief intervention, if they could take a moment to thank the police officers for their work because there has been a lot of police bashing here in the last few days and they need our support. They are doing a heck of a job and I would encourage everyone here to take the time to thank them for their service.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for her great remarks and for her service as a police officer and all the other police officers who I know, particularly on these files. It is pretty heartbreaking at times. I really want to salute her for that. She has more knowledge of these matters than probably anyone in the House and certainly more than I would ever want to have. I sincerely thank her for her service.

The parliamentary secretary talked about a long list of things that were being done, a lot of programs and so on. We have heard many good comments in the House. I would ask her what is missing? Is it attitude? Is it public awareness? Everyone says they care and I do not think there is any question about that, but what is missing?

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for his kind comments. It was an absolute pleasure and an honour for me to serve the city of Winnipeg during my time as a police officer and I intend to go back there when I am done here. The member too has served his country proudly in the Canadian armed forces, so I know that he has had some difficult times throughout his career that I am sure have weighed heavily on his heart. I think him for his service as well.

While we are talking about my opinion about where we might find some advancement, one of the things that we need to do is to build relationships. It is through building relationships that people share secrets. I find we lack the building of relationships even in the House as we have political parties that try to jockey for one position or another and sometimes that is unfortunate. However, if we could come together and build relationships so that we can work toward the resolution together without pointing fingers, et cetera, that is something I think is missing. That applies also to our aboriginal communities. To build relations with them and thank them for what they do because they do a lot to solve these things as well and celebrate their successes because we have some tremendously successful aboriginal people who do not get recognition. I would like to see that happen.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

It being 5:15 p.m., pursuant to an order made earlier today, all questions necessary to dispose of the opposition motion are deemed put and a recorded division deemed requested and deferred until Tuesday, February 26, 2013, at the expiry of the time provided for government orders.

I see the chief government whip is rising on a point of order.

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I ask that you see the clock at 5:30 p.m.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Is it agreed to see the clock at 5:30 p.m.?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

The House resumed from January 30 consideration of the motion that Bill C-444, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (personating peace officer or public officer), be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Criminal Code

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

When we last had this question for debate in the House, the hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice had six minutes remaining for her remarks.

The hon. parliamentary secretary.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice]

Mr. Speaker, when I was speaking to this before, I commented on the problems that could arise with police personation because it offends a natural trust, which we would like to think is ordinarily well-founded, that could be exploited and abused by criminals for their own purposes. Every time someone pretends to be a peace officer or a public officer with the intent of deceiving the public or a particular person, damage is indeed done to society's overall ability to trust in the uniform and the other identifiable tools and equipment that such officers would normally carry.

This leads to the second conclusion about this offence. No matter what the purpose of the personation is, or even if there is no purpose at all, it is dangerous and criminal conduct. Public trust in the police and other public institutions is critical to public order and stability.

Returning to Bill C-444, the legislation addresses the most serious forms of the offence of personating a peace officer or a public officer. I would pause to note that the offence under section 130 applies to personation of both peace officers and public officers, both of which are defined in the Criminal Code.

Bill C-444 proposes an aggravating factor that also addresses the personation of a peace officer and a public officer. This is a reasonable approach when one takes into account the definitions of those terms. “Peace officer” is defined in section 2 of the Criminal Code and includes holders of particular offices, most important, police officers and corrections officers. The term “public officer” is also defined in section 2 of our Criminal Code and includes, for instance, customs officers and officers in the Canadian Forces. There is some overlap between the terms and therefore it is sensible to include both.

The personation of a peace officer or a public officer, and most especially the police, is the most troubling circumstance. Pretending to be a peace officer or a public officer is serious, regardless of the purpose for which it is done, as I said, or even if there is no purpose at all. However, when a person's trust in the police is exploited in order to make it easier to commit another crime, and in particular, a crime against the person who was made to believe they were dealing with a police officer in the first place, that is extremely blameworthy conduct. Bill C-444 aims to ensure that individuals who would do exactly this are punished accordingly.

We are fortunate in Canada to have a society in which citizens, on the whole, trust their law enforcement. This trust leads citizens to want to accept the authority of anyone who appears to be a police officer. A police personator can exploit this trust and use it to more easily approach, interact with and assert physical authority over others.

Peace officer or public officer personation is, in general, quite rare, and thankfully, this more blameworthy form of it is even rarer. Unfortunately, however, it does still take place. Bill C-444 aims to identify this situation as one that aggravates the crime and should lead to a harsher sentence than that which would otherwise be imposed on the offender.

I would like to thank the hon. member for Red Deer for introducing Bill C-444, and allowing us, as parliamentarians, to discuss this serious problem, and in doing so, educate Canadians on these very real risks.

[Pierre Jacob, NDP, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to speak to Bill C-444, introduced by the hon. member for Red Deer.

This bill would amend the Criminal Code to establish that personating a peace officer or public officer for the purpose of committing an offence must be considered by a judge to be an aggravating circumstance for sentencing purposes.

This bill is a good, balanced response to this real problem, and I support it at second reading.

It reproduces what was in Bill C-576, which died on the order paper during the 40th Parliament, and it adds the notion of personating a public officer.

The purpose of this bill is to sanction such actions. I commend my hon. colleague from Red Deer who worked on this issue. During previous debates, he mentioned a number of sad stories from across the country in which criminals have used this scheme to commit offences ranging from theft to forcible confinement.

The hon. member for Red Deer also mentioned the fact that Canadians' trust in peace and public officers must be protected. He said in the House:

By supporting the bill, we are also helping to preserve the trust and respect that citizens have for real, bona fide police officers. When citizens see a police uniform, they naturally trust and respect the authority that comes with it. Our laws must reflect this reality.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice clearly explained the importance of this relationship of trust, and the bill seeks to strengthen that relationship between citizens and police officers.

I would also like to comment briefly on the reservations the hon. member for Mount Royal has about this bill.

Although he agrees with the objective and supports the bill, the hon. member doubts that the bill will have the desired effect, namely, of making it possible to impose longer prison sentences. He also mentioned the efficacy of the deterrent effect of longer prison terms. This is a very interesting debate, and I will have the pleasure of talking to him more about it when this bill is sent to committee.

We must recognize that, for once, a bill that amends the Criminal Code is a good thing.

There is no reference to minimum sentences, the independence of the justice system is not being challenged and respect for victims is being made a priority. These things do not happen often enough in this Parliament, and it is important to point it out.

Too often, the Conservatives do not take a logical approach to justice, and I always criticize bills that are sent to the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights that either seriously undermine judicial independence or add standards to the Criminal Code that weaken its legal logic.

I would like to commend the hon. member who worked long and hard on this issue and introduced this bill on September 27. I will vote in favour of it.

I would like to come back to the valid statements made by the hon. member for Mount Royal, who brought up some things to think about as we work to solve this rather uncommon problem of personating a peace officer or public officer.

The hon. member brought up the problem of access to police uniforms and equipment. It is true that that is a concern. Restricting access to this sort of clothing and other equipment could be worth looking into.

My hon. colleague also suggested that there be a campaign to raise awareness about police identity cards. These are two interesting possibilities that in no way diminish the merits of the bill. I would like to talk about another point that the bill sheds light on, the fact that people have lost trust in our police institutions.

The member for Red Deer insisted that this was something he thought about when drafting his bill. Therefore, it is essential that people who are approached by police officers for whatever reason know who they are dealing with.

I will come back to my colleague's comments, which echo the member for Mount Royal's suggestion concerning badges, which could be explored:

This is an opportunity to encourage people to think about why they are being stopped, to make sure they ask to see a badge and look for the number. The police are prepared to do that. When I spoke with police officers they said it was common practice. I know a lot of times we think that if we ask for the number, it will cause more concern, but that certainly was not an issue in my discussions with the members I spoke with.

This quote shows that some people are intimidated by the police and do not dare make this legitimate request. The bill brings this out into the open.

I would also like to congratulate my colleague from Gatineau, who provided a good explanation of how the judge and crown prosecutor determine the sentence when the offence is punishable by indictment or by summary conviction.

In closing, I would like to recognize the work of the member for Red Deer and give him my full support for his bill, because it respects the victim and also the independence of the judiciary, and provides appropriate punishment for the offender. This is a well thought out and balanced approach. If a similar approach is taken again, I would be happy to collaborate.