Debates of May 27th, 2013

Ethics

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Mr. Speaker, as my colleague should know, the Prime Minister learned of this situation when it was reported in the media. After that, the Prime Minister asked us to take proactive steps to ensure that we are being diligent with taxpayers' money. Nigel Wright resigned. The Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner and the Senate committee are currently investigating the matter. I hope that my colleague will respect these institutions and their ability to find answers to her questions.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is almost impossible to believe that the Senate spending scandal was the work of just one man.

The chief of staff reports to the Prime Minister and works very closely with his principal secretary. The principal secretary at the time, who has since become the new chief of staff, is none other than Ray Novak, whom the Prime Minister has entrusted with a number of hot issues, including the Helena Guergis matter.

Was Ray Novak aware of the discussions going on between Nigel Wright and Mike Duffy regarding the $90,000 payment?

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Mr. Speaker, Nigel Wright said himself that he acted alone.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Speakers, Conservatives just do not seem to understand it is their leader's actions being called into question. The Prime Minister's actions show his inability to manage the PMO. His judgment is on trial and Conservatives are losing their cases.

My question is simple. Before promoting Ray Novak, did the Prime Minister ask if he was aware of or involved with any aspects of the Wright-Duffy matter?

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Mr. Speaker, as has been made clear in Nigel Wright's statement when he resigned as chief of staff to the Prime Minister, he acted alone.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is a little rich to hear Marjory LeBreton, an artifact of the golden era of Gucci shoes mandarins--

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Order, please. The hon. member for Winnipeg Centre has the floor.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is a little rich to hear Marjory Lebreton, herself warming a seat in the Senate for over 20 years, to now declare that the ethical rules around the Senate are unacceptable. The solution she is proposing is tantamount to calling for a smoke detector to be put into the charred-out shell of a building that has already burnt down. It is far too little and far too late.

Why will the Conservatives not simply admit that the Senate is beyond redemption and begin the process to pull the plug on this--

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Order. The hon. Minister of Canadian Heritage.

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Mr. Speaker, Senator LeBreton put forward reforms that we think are in the interests of taxpayers. We do, as I said, want to go further, which is why we have legislation for both term limits and elections. With regard to respecting democracy and respecting institutions, I do believe in that and I believe in the words of the member for Winnipeg Centre, however, I do not believe in his actions. If he believes in actually improving the quality of this place and improving these institutions, perhaps he should walk his talk and avoid as many lawsuits as he has seen over the past few years.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a question of the minister who is answering today. Both Senator Stewart Olsen and Senator Tkachuk were members of the committee that changed the wording of the report with respect to Senator Duffy. They changed it somewhere between May 7, May 8 and May 9 when the final draft was put out, which was a Conservative draft and not a draft adopted by the whole committee.

I would like to ask the minister under what rules of natural justice are the people who actually changed the report on Senator Duffy now allowed to stand and judge their own behaviour with respect to what they did?

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Mr. Speaker, as I understand, again, the opposition parties agreed with the government that there should be an independent outside auditor brought in to look at this matter. As I understand it, the report of the Senate reflected that auditor's report and the committee that did that report has Liberal members on that committee. Of course, new questions have been raised. The committee will take another look at it. If Liberal members want to ask whatever questions they want of that committee, they are free to do so. The Liberal member opposite should have some confidence in his colleagues, even if we do not.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the minister just gave a profoundly incorrect answer. The report was drafted, the report was accepted in principle on May 7. The report was changed by the Conservative majority on the steering committee on May 8 and those changes were then added to on May 9 when it went to the full committee. It was said clearly on the floor of the Senate that the Liberals did not accept the report as it was then put forward by the Conservative majority. Those are the facts. Why are the same people who cooked up the report now standing in judgment on themselves? It is absolutely preposterous.

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Mr. Speaker, quite frankly, we do not agree. We do not agree that the Senate report does not reflect that auditor's findings. As I said, the Senate committee will take another look at it. If the member opposite does not like that, then he can look to the Ethics Commissioner who is also examining this as well as the Senate ethics office, who are looking at this matter to answer these questions. I think that is the action that Canadians are looking for, to get to the answers of the questions that have been raised. We are showing the leadership that Canadians have come to expect.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, will the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Ms. Dawson, have the authority to investigate the conduct of Senator Tkachuk and Senator Stewart Olsen, and the orders they received from the Prime Minister's Office? Is that the case? This is ridiculous.

We have an ethics committee that is accepting an investigation from Ms. Dawson. It makes absolutely no sense from a natural justice perspective. It makes no sense at all.

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Mr. Speaker, if it against natural justice, where was the Liberal senators' dissenting report? There was not one. They did not put one forward. They did not say anything publicly. So again--

[Some Hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Order, please. The hon. minister has the floor now. Members need to listen to the answer.

The hon. minister.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

The Ethics Commissioner has new powers that our government put in place as part of the Federal Accountability Act, powers to investigate when necessary in a way that we think will satisfy the interests of taxpayers. That is who we are here to serve, the interests of all Canadian taxpayers.

National Defence

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, let us go back to the Delisle case where the Minister of Public Safety says everybody else has it wrong but him. It is clear to everyone who is paying attention that CSIS knew Jeffrey Delisle was selling military secrets to Russia for months, but failed to inform the RCMP. For months, Delisle continued to sell secrets while under CSIS surveillance, yet the RCMP was only tipped off later by the FBI.

There is only one person responsible to make sure these kinds of breaches do not happen again. Would the minister explain why security agencies reporting to him did not share information in a timely fashion and would he tell us what he is doing to fix this security breach problem?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot comment on operational matters of national security. However, what I can say is not only are the conclusions drawn in the newspaper article profoundly incorrect, the additional allegations made by the member just now are incorrect as well.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, at the time, the Minister of National Defence downplayed the consequences, but these breaches had been going on for four years.

Now we find out that Mr. Delisle could have been arrested sooner had CSIS shared the information with the RCMP. The fact is that the Canadian Security Intelligence Service allowed Canadian intelligence to be stolen for months, and it was the FBI that tipped off the RCMP.

What is the minister going to do to prevent such an abysmal lack of communication in the future?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, all I can say is that the various conclusions drawn in the stories are totally incorrect.

Information is shared between law enforcement agencies in accordance with Canadian law. I do not involve myself in operational matters of national security.

41st General Election

[Alexandrine Latendresse, NDP, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in his May 2011 ruling on electoral fraud, Justice Mosley was very clear: the Conservatives did everything they could to slow down his investigation.

They slowed down his investigation and exhausted every legal avenue they could come up with. People who have nothing to hide do not go to such lengths.

In the meantime, the Conservatives are wasting precious time when they could be introducing a bill that would give Elections Canada more power, even though they promised to do so when they voted in favour the NDP's motion to that effect last year. Delaying introduction of the bill only encourages fraud.

When will the government finally reform the Canada Elections Act?