Debates of May 9th, 2013

Opposition Motion — 2013 Spring Report of the Auditor General of Canada

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we have been told by the government that the $3.1 billion is not lost, it just is not found, and that is good management on the government's part.

I would like to go back to the issue of third party managers. The Conservatives viciously attacked the impoverished community of Attawapiskat, not saying that the money was misspent but that there were not enough receipts. There was not even an allegation that the money was misspent; it was just that they did not have all the receipts. Meanwhile, they cannot even produce the receipts for misspending $3.1 billion.

Given the sheer magnitude of incompetence that we see over there, has my hon. colleague thought what the costs would be for us to bring in independent third-party managers for each of these departments that are misspending money, losing money, hiding money through secret contracts that they are not coming clean with?

We need some sense of accountability over there.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his point and I have already acknowledged it. I think the Attawapiskat comparison is telling.

I think to bring in third party managers when we are talking about funds on the scale of $3.1 billion would be enormously expensive, so our proposal, I think, is the more practical one. If we move to estimates based upon programs, then we would avert any such problems in the future.

It would be nice if we could solve this $3.1 billion problem, but I am not sure we ever will. I think the Auditor General has done his best, and he simply says the information is not there.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on December 4, 2002, the current Prime Minister, who was the Leader of the Opposition at the time, asked the Liberal government a question about the loss of $1 billion, which he called a boondoggle. It was clearly a scandal. The Prime Minister, who was the opposition leader at the time, shouted from the rooftops about this scandal.

Could my colleague comment on the difference between the Conservatives' attitude during the Liberal scandal and their current attitude, now that they are the ones who have lost $3.1 billion? Why have they changed their attitude towards a scandal that is almost exactly the same? What are my colleague's thoughts on that?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it was not at all the same. Neither my colleague nor I was here at that time.

However, at the end of the day, it was proven that the billion-dollar boondoggle did not exist. That is the difference.

That is the difference. The Liberal scandal was not a scandal. It did not exist. As for the Conservative scandal regarding the $3.1 billion, that is real. No one knows where that money is. This is completely different.

[Jay Aspin, Conservative, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Mr. Speaker, clearly the $3 billion we are talking about is a reporting thing. It is horizontal, and clearly it will come out in due course.

I have a question for the member. If he and his party are so good at finding money, perhaps he can tell us where the $40 million in sponsorship money went?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that the hon. member focus on today's issue, not on something from decades ago.

He says that he thinks the $3.1 billion will be identified in due course. What does that mean? The Auditor General said the information was not available. How can he say that it will be identified in due course when the Auditor General said that the information does not exist?

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I will share my time with the hon. member for Nickel Belt.

We are talking about $3.1 billion in a $12.9 billion budget.

Government representatives are saying that there was an emergency in 2001, that there was a real terrorist threat. It never went away. Canada could be attacked and be unable to respond. That justified allocating a budget. The government decided that Canada needed to spend $12.9 billion to protect itself.

Now $3.1 billion is missing. Where did it go? There is no way of knowing. That is a pretty big deal.

The Auditor General said that there is no explanation for the $3.1 billion difference between the funds allocated to the departments and agencies and the reported expenditures. In other words, nobody knows what happened to that money.

Fortunately, we have been told that the money has not been diverted to a Swiss bank account by a corrupt public servant or minister. We have that assurance, at least. Still, it is not so bad because, given what is going on in the Senate, we could say that it has rubbed off on the ministers.

Needs were identified. What became of them? It is like cyber threats. No one knows what happened to the $750 million.

The problem with the cyber threat file is that, 10 years after the money was spent, we were blatantly told that our computer systems are not protected from a cyber attack. That is fairly serious.

That is the real problem: there is no accountability. The government chooses to spend money or not. Funds get reassigned, but we are never told whether the critical mission was accomplished. That is the whole problem with this government.

If this $3.1 billion was spent so Canada could be protected from an act of terrorism, that is good, because that is what should have been done. However, we do not have that information. We do not have that guarantee. We were quite simply told that $3.1 billion was missing. We demand to know what happened.

How can we right a situation if the extent of the problem or its very nature are being kept from us? To find a solution, we need to know the exact nature of the problem. That is what we are asking. That is exactly what is at the heart of this motion: we want to know. We do not want relevant information kept from us anymore.

The best part is that in 2010, this government decided to abolish the reporting process. The Auditor General clearly states that that is where their audit stopped. The government did not fix the problem. It got rid of the method for finding out about the problem.

Sweeping things under the rug will not make them disappear. Sooner or later, it will start to get cluttered under there.

In theory, it takes $3.1 billion to keep Canada safe. However, this same government introduced Bill S-7, saying that Canada needs to be protected from terrorism.

What will we use to fight terrorism? The Conservatives have cut public safety spending by $687 million. That must make the terrorists happy. I imagine that representatives and lawyers for the mafia and organized crime are thanking their lucky stars and hoping that this government never gets voted out of power. The election of the Conservative Party is the best thing that ever happened to the mafia.

They have slashed $143 million from the border services budget.

Right now, border posts all along Quebec's border are empty. Fraudsters and people smuggling in illegal immigrants are being asked to pick up the telephone and say they are crossing the border. Life is grand. This government is making every effort to be reckless. It says it will protect Canada and then it asks terrorists to turn themselves in. Well done.

In Granby and Bromont, the RCMP is helping people who crossed the border illegally and claim to be political refugees. That is fine. The problem is that there are some people who do not report to the RCMP. There are some who come straight across the border. Who are those people? We do not know and there is no way we can know, because the Conservatives have cut positions: 626 full-time positions, including 325 front-line police officers and 100 positions directly related to the intelligence directorate. They have cut 19 sniffer dog units that searched for drugs and explosives. That means that they have eliminated, from airports and border crossings, our system to protect against bombs and against terrorists who blow up airplanes. In theory, that should make us safer.

Meanwhile, the government does not know where the $3.1 billion that was supposed to be used to combat terrorism has gone. When I say that the work is not being done, I mean it is really not being done. Another very serious issue is the $195 million in cuts to the RCMP. That is the icing on the cake. It is really no longer able to do the job.

What is more, with regard to search and rescue and aviation safety, we are being told that if a plane ever crashes somewhere as a result of an act of terrorism, if a boat is ever in difficulty or there is a highjacking at sea, the Royal Canadian Air Force does not have the planes or helicopters to intervene, to protect and save the victims of an act of terrorism or any other accident. They no longer have the means to do so.

Yet $3.1 billion has gone missing. It would have been useful to look at any threats against Canada and use the money to counter those threats. Yet that was not done. However, we may have an idea of where that $3.1 billion went.

The G8 and G20 summit expenses raised many questions. Today, the same minister is under scrutiny for the disappearance of $3.1 billion. It that money buried under a gazebo in his riding? It might be worthwhile to go and dig there. We might strike it rich.

Let us not forget that the $50 billion he spent on sidewalks, gazebos and public restrooms was supposed to have been spent on securing our borders. That money was allocated to border protection infrastructure. In order to get re-elected, the Conservatives took $50 million to assure the President of the Treasury Board's friends that they would all get small contracts, that they would all get a little treat. It does not make any sense at all.

It was important to point out that, under the Conservative government, that money was used for purposes other than those for which it was intended. That is clearly what happened in the President of the Treasury Board's case.

The President of the Treasury Board obviously has the makings of a future senator. This seems to be a Conservative government trademark.

This motion calls for something to be done about the $3.1 billion. Is Canada safer from terrorism than it was, when only $9.7 billion of the $12.9 billion allocated for this purpose was spent?

The government has not answered this important question. The loss of this $3.1 billion therefore demands some accountability. That is what Canada needs.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Speaker, this problem is not unique to what was in the Auditor General's report, nor is it unique to the period in question. In fact, there is a more recent example in this year's budget.

I am the critic for Veterans Affairs. Within the budget this year, there is an indication that $65 million has been allocated over the next two years for the last post fund. The last post fund spends about $10 million a year, so we know very well that $65 million will not be spent in the next two years. A few years from now, is there going to be another Auditor General's report that says that $40 million cannot be accounted for and that it was not spent when the government said in the budget that it was going to be spent?

Given what is in the Auditor General's report, and this behaviour apparently continuing in this year's budget, how do we stop this from recurring in the future?

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the culture of secrecy must be abandoned and accountability rules must be put in place. It is a common practice to look at a budget over a 10-year period and then, if the amount is too great for the stated objective, to reduce it. That is good management.

Is that what happened in this case? We do not have the slightest idea. That is what we are asking. We are not asking for the moon. All we want is the earth. We are fine with it, but there is no accountability in this matter.

We have no problem with a reassessment of expenditures. However, we need to be informed.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate my colleague on his speech.

If I am not mistaken, I believe that he serves on the Standing Committee on Public Accounts. He is very well positioned to recognize the government's poor management and lack of accountability.

I had the opportunity to talk about this a little earlier in my presentation. I would like to know my colleague's views on this. I talked about the Conservatives' dishonesty, which we see day after day, and their insults to the effect that the NDP cannot do a good job of managing the economy, and so forth. These are myths invented by the Conservative Party.

The reality is that today—and we have heard about it all week—we see that $3.1 billion has been lost and that the Conservatives do not know how to manage the economy and protect taxpayers.

What does my colleague think of this lack of logic?

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that is an excellent question that opens the government up to some scathing criticism.

The Conservatives claim that they are the best at managing the economy and they compare themselves to Greece, Spain and Italy. It would be nice if they would occasionally compare themselves to the best: Sweden, Germany and Australia. No, they compare themselves to mediocre managers and think that this makes them the best. In reality, they are simply less mediocre than other mediocre managers. What a fantastic achievement.

Our country has 1.4 million unemployed workers, and that number is going up by 50,000 a month. We have a trade deficit of $60 billion. Households have a debt-to-income ratio of 163%, and the Conservatives still think they are the best. That is not true.

The best example is that they have lost track of $3.1 billion, at a time when Canada's economy is struggling and Canadians are experiencing serious problems. Food bank use has more than doubled. That is not a sign that things are going well. Here is the problem: the government is hiding the truth and shamelessly lying about economic figures.

Rather, I should say that the economic figures this government uses do not at all reflect the reality in Canada. That is a bit more parliamentary.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to speak today on our official opposition motion on the recent Auditor General's report on the missing $3.1 billion.

I have to say that there are days as an MP on this side of the House when I do not know whether to laugh or cry. On the surface, we can shake our heads and poke fun at the government that cannot find $3.1 billion of taxpayers' money. We know what we do at home when some money goes missing. We look under the bed and in the washing machine. Maybe a few Canadians check socks. Yesterday we asked the government if it checked the banana stand.

All kidding aside, we are not talking about some loonies or toonies or change. We are talking about $3.1 billion. This is the stuff accounting teachers use with their students as prima facie evidence of accounting gone wrong. This is where one wants to cry rather than laugh. This comes from a government that has inflicted on Canadians ad nauseam its economic action plan commercials for itself. It is more wasting of taxpayers' money.

The Conservatives have made outrageous claims about being good managers of the economy, when the evidence, such as the missing $3.1 billion, tells the real story. This is the government that brought Canada the $50-million spending spree of the member for Parry Sound—Muskoka for the G8 summit, with gazebos and the paving of the yellow brick riding that had nothing to do with security. Is this where we should be looking for the $3.1 billion for security measures?

We saw the financial fiasco of the F-35 jets. Are their fumes where we should be looking for the $3.1 billion?

In the past, we have seen economic mis-managers spend money on government programs that did not exist. Coming from Northern Ontario, I know the fiction of FedNor's spending claims from the President of the Treasury Board.

Is it any wonder that when someone with the integrity and independence of Kevin Page, the former Parliamentary Budget Officer, pointed out this incompetence, the government chose to shoot the messenger rather than conduct the business of the government in a proper fashion?

The ridicule of the Conservative government's spending and accountability knows no bounds. Richard Cléroux writes, in his Straight Talk blog, that the President of the Treasury Board is a treasury minister who has lost his treasure. The minister claimed the money was not lost, that it was only an accounting difference between him and Michael Ferguson, the Auditor General. Mr. Cléroux suggests that the treasury board minister might not be wise speculating that the money might have been spent in Afghanistan and on border crossings. Mr. Cléroux reminded Canadians that the minister “spent $50 million on building public toilets in a farmer's field, a gazebo in a town, buying a $2 million cruise boat that wouldn't float, and the killer—paying $1 million to have somebody carve a fake, miniature lighthouse out of an old tree stump...If anybody out there comes across a $3.1 billion bundle somewhere in a government office, you'll know whose it is”. Others are calling the government's explanation a fancy fudging of facts.

The minister acknowledges that the individual reporting by departments is not followed by whole government reporting. If we do the math, it is pretty simple. Add up the different departments and get the bottom-line figure. However, it does not add up. We are out $3.1 billion.

Let us be clear about the importance of security and anti-terrorism initiatives. They are needed to meet the post-9/11 security environment. No one disputes that, but with all the spending cuts happening, we need to be sure we have value for our spending. We need to know where this money is going and whether we are getting the security we are paying for. We have a problem when the Auditor General tells Canadians he does not know and cannot determine how this money was spent. It is a real concern that the government shows such a lack of interest in monitoring overall spending on national security.

The government loves to blame the previous Liberal government for getting us into this mess, and there is some truth to that. However, it is the Conservative government that in 2010 let drop the commitment to strategically monitor overall spending on national security. It was the Conservative government that stopped providing annual reports on where all the money was going.

The Auditor General found that $3.1 billion was missing between 2011 and 2009. What happened in 2010? Both the Auditor General and the Assistant Auditor General had some interesting things to say about that. The Auditor General said:

Our audit only went up to this time period, and at the end of this time period this method of reporting was stopped.

It seems that when the Auditor General found that the Conservatives were not counting money properly, the government's answer was to simply stop counting. That is banana-stand nonsense.

We can do better. We must do better.

I am the mining critic for the official opposition. We have a 20-member mining caucus that met this week to look at what a proper national mining strategy might look like, one that could support the good-paying jobs and the investment the mining industry makes in our economy, which was $35 billion in gross domestic product in 2011. A mining strategy that can pay dividends for Canada when it is done in a sustainable fashion is good management of the economy.

My leader has made it clear that for these natural resources projects, it is not in Canada's best interest, not even for our bottom line, to take as much resources out of the ground in as short a period of time as possible to sell to whomever, usually foreign countries, with foreign companies getting most of the profit. This does not serve Canadian interests now or future generations. We in the party know something about sound economic management. It means paying attention to both the bottom line and the social good. It is not surprising, as a federal government report indicated, that, taking into account all governments and all parties, NDP governments have balanced the books more than any other party. Whether it is mining or national security, we can get it right. That is good fiscal management.

That is not what we are talking about today with this missing $3.1 billion. Where is that money?

During his audit, the Auditor General asked the Treasury Board Secretariat for information to help him explain how the balance of $3.1 billion, allocated between 2001 and 2009, had been used. Although no clear explanation was given, the secretariat worked with the Office of the Auditor General to identify several possible scenarios: the money may have lapsed at the end of the fiscal year for which it was allocated; the money may have been spent on different public security and anti-terrorism activities and reported as part of ongoing program spending; or the money may have been carried over and spent on programs not related to the initiative.

With this motion, we are calling on the Conservatives to make public, by June 17, 2013, a detailed summary of all departmental expenditures specifically related to public security and anti-terrorism initiatives between 2011 and 2009 and to give the Auditor General all the necessary resources to perform an in-depth forensic audit until the missing $3.1 billion is found and accounted for.

Surely it is time to stop politics and actually take the issue of preventing terrorism seriously and account for the money spent on anti-terrorism initiatives. Conservatives are bringing forward initiatives and unnecessary laws that infringe upon our civil liberties without actually being able to explain whether the whopping $3.1 billion allocated for public security and anti-terrorism initiatives was actually spent, and if so, how, and on what programs.

Ordinary Canadians need to know why $3.1 billion of their taxpayer money is missing and why the Conservatives are not doing everything in their power to find where the $3.1 billion went and what it was used for. We will leave no stone unturned to try to get to the bottom of this boondoggle. That is a real economic action plan.

If the Conservatives have nothing to hide, why do they not make it transparent and release all necessary documents to the Auditor General to make sure the $3.1 billion is found and accounted for?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt that $3.1 billion is a huge amount of money. It is ultimately very difficult for many, if not most, to really get an appreciation of just how much money it is.

One of the things we are hoping to see, if this motion were to pass, is a solution and some way to prevent this from occurring in the future.

My question to the member is in regard to the amendment that was brought forward by my colleagues earlier, in essence stating that it is necessary for a transition to program-based appropriations, according to timelines provided by the standing committee, in order to change the way in which we do estimates.

Does the member agree with that? Would he support what the Liberal Party is suggesting?

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Winnipeg North asked me what we expected. We expect the government to supply all the proper information to the Auditor General.

At the end of the day, we want to know where this $3.1 billion is. Where was it spent and how was it spent? We want to know where it is. That is all we want to know. Where is it?

Give us the documentation. Give it to the Auditor General and he can figure out where the money is. If it was misspent, the government should pay it back.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Speaker, during the debate, we heard Conservative members say a number of times that all the information is available in the Public Accounts of Canada. Canadians are not fools and know that what the Conservatives are saying is totally false. Here is a quote from a discussion between the Auditor General and Aaron Wherry from Maclean's:

The information reported annually in the Public Accounts was at an aggregate level and most of the PSAT spending was not separately reported as a distinct (or separate) line item. Furthermore, with over 10 years elapsing since the beginning of the PSAT program, much of that information is now archived and unavailable.

Therefore, what the Conservatives are saying is false. Would my colleague like to comment on that?

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague does indeed have reason to believe that what the Conservatives are saying is entirely false. After hearing this discussion, we must believe what the Auditor General is telling Canadians. We must believe him and not the Conservatives, who are known as a party that hides the truth from Canadians. We should not believe them.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I direct this question to the hon. member for Nickel Belt.

My father was an accountant and I vividly recall, because I was about eight years old, that he was the senior cashier for a large insurance company. During year-end, they could not find $1 million. He came home from work and said they could not find that $1 million. It was a matter of accounting to figure out where it went. I was a very little girl and I remember saying, "Keep looking in all the wastepaper baskets; it has got to be there somewhere".

I find the misapprehension from Conservative members of the House today of what it means to have $3.1 billion missing to be quite like my reaction as a little girl, saying that the money is not really missing. They just cannot figure out where it is; it is not really missing money.

I think we understand that in an audit we have to track where the money is and where it was spent. That is why we have an Auditor General, to figure out that the government is taking good care and can account for every penny spent.

If $3.1 billion cannot be accounted for, will my friend from Nickel Belt agree with me that it means it is missing?

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I completely agree with the member: the money is missing. All the Conservatives have to do is give the Auditor General the proper documentation so he can find where the money is. If he cannot find where the money is, then it is up to the Conservatives to tell us where they spent that money; $3.1 billion is a lot of coins to be missing.

[Jay Aspin, Conservative, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Sault Ste. Marie.

I am pleased to have this opportunity to add to this debate. It gives me an opportunity to talk about our government's strong commitment to protecting the personal safety of our citizens and defending them against threats to our nation. It also gives me a chance to assure Canadians that government spending tagged for security initiatives continues to be used for this purpose. This includes initiatives such as the public security and anti-terrorism, or PSAT, initiative.

As we know, the Auditor General of Canada recently released a chapter of the spring report on the reporting of PSAT funding. Contrary to what some have said and would lead members to believe, the Auditor General did not find that PSAT funds are missing or were misappropriated or misspent. The Auditor General did express some concerns about the clarity and categorization of the reporting between departments between 2001 and 2009. He also made some recommendations to improve the process. I am pleased to say that the Treasury Board Secretariat has accepted these recommendations and is committed to following them.

One of the developments under the PSAT initiative was the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority, or CATSA. I am pleased to take this opportunity to highlight the work done by our government to strengthen the security of the transportation system in Canada. Our safety measures affect all means of transport. However, it is aviation security that I will speak about today.

The tragic events of September 11, 2001, marked a turning point for aviation security, not only in Canada but also globally. In the decade since, many countries have taken significant action to improve the safety and security of their aviation industries and the travelling public. This is certainly the case in Canada, where the government works with international partners and industry to enhance aviation security. Thanks to the significant improvements we have made to the network of Canada's aviation security since September 11, 2001, our transportation system is now one of the safest and most secure in the world.

While time does not permit a comprehensive list of aviation security accomplishments, I will briefly highlight a few: implementing the restricted area identity card in Canadian airports to strengthen airport access control, the first dual-function biometric card, iris and fingerprint; and working with industry to ensure that all air cargo is screened to the highest standards using the most effective technology at a point in the supply chain that makes the most sense to shippers. All this work has contributed to making Canada's civil aviation security program one of the strongest in the world, and we are proud of that.

We know terrorists are constantly adjusting their tactics and trying to exploit what they perceive to be soft spots in our defences, so we must ensure our aviation security system continues to evolve to meet these challenging threats. In part, we do this through effective risk management. One lesson we have learned during this last decade is that, in enforcing prescriptive regulations, the one-size-fits-all approach does not always mean getting the best outcomes. Instead, we recognize that our partners, including airlines, airports and CATSA, the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority, are committed to security and capable of managing risk. Where possible, we believe we should allow industry to pursue innovative ways to meet their obligations while accounting for their local realities.

Fundamentally, this means focusing our efforts on areas of aviation security systems where they have the greatest benefits. Our approach to securing air cargo is a good example of our putting these principles into practice. As we know, cargo is handled at multiple stages from the point at which it is packaged until it is boarded on a plane. This includes shippers, agents, freight forwarders and air carriers. It would be not only inefficient but near impossible to impose one-size-fits-all security rules to each stage of the package's journey from factory to aircraft.

That is why we decided to adopt the security supply chain. This model allows for security checks where industry has determined that it is more economical to do so in the supply chain, while ensuring the cargo remains in control while passengers board the aircraft. This approach is balanced. It maximizes safety and it minimizes cost while maintaining the efficiency of the entire network for travellers and goods.

In addition to managing risks, our government recognizes that having a safe and secure aviation system depends on the strength of the partnerships that support it. First, this means partnerships at home. While the Government of Canada may develop policies, set regulations, oversee those regulations and set technology standards, our industry partners are the ones who must implement them. They may do this by either complying with the regulations or developing the technology that meets our standards.

These are the people who are on the front lines of aviation security, including our industry partners. Our international partnerships are equally important to our shared security. We know terrorists do not respect boundaries. We have also seen how attacks launched from halfway around the world can affect us all.

Cooperation on our shared air border with the United States remains a priority, given the fundamental role it plays in our bilateral economic relationship. We want to make sure this strong relationship continues long into the future. We are confronted with ever-evolving threats. The ability to provide the practical technical solutions to these threats is integral to maintaining aviation specifically and more generally, for all Canadians.

The steps we have taken to ensure the security of Canada's transportation network are good examples of our government's strong commitment to protecting the personal safety of citizens. Indeed, the first job of any government is to keep citizens safe from harm. I believe our government's record speaks for itself. We continue to fund measures to enhance the security of all Canadians.

The Auditor General has provided useful recommendations to improve the reporting around this important initiative. I am pleased to say that we are doing exactly that. For example, we have made significant improvements to reporting the financial and non-financial information on future government-wide initiatives such as PSAT.

To conclude, I cannot support the motion, as I believe it is clear the Auditor General has reviewed all available documents and has reached the conclusion that he did not find anything that would lead him to believe money was used in any way that it should not have been.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, in fact, what the Auditor General said was that it is important that there be a way for people to understand how this money was spent, and that summary reporting was not done. In other words, nobody knows where the money is. If money cannot be accounted for, then it is missing.

What we want to know is where the money is and what the money was spent on. The member across the way can go on and on and drone on and on, and many of the members on the government side have done that all day. They talk about how the opposition is trying to manufacture a scandal. No, we are not trying to manufacture a scandal; Conservatives are doing a fine job on their own manufacturing scandals. Instead of all the torqued rhetoric, why do they not just come clean and tell us where the money is and what it has been spent on?

[Jay Aspin, Conservative, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Mr. Speaker, essentially the hon. members are manufacturing misinformation. There is no money missing. It is clear that these are summary reports. We have adopted the recommendations by the Auditor General, and that information will be coming forth in due course. There is no money missing. The only money missing is the $40 million from the Liberal scandal years ago.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the member really needs to get a little bit more focused in terms of today's reality, which is quite different from what he just finished stating in his answer and his speech on this issue.

I will put it very simply to the member. There is a question about $3.1 billion. We are talking about tax dollars, ultimately. Canadians have a right to know where that money is spent. All we know is that there is $3.1 billion that is not accounted for. So if we ask the government where it spent that money, the government's response would be, “We don't know, but trust us; it hasn't been lost”. Canadians do not trust Conservatives. They do not trust the government.

Can the member provide us today with any tangible, concrete display of where that $3.1 billion is?

[Jay Aspin, Conservative, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. friend should be more focused on what the Auditor General said. He did not say that there was any money missing. The Auditor General wants us to come up with a summary reporting, as per his recommendations. We have agreed with the recommendations and that will be forthcoming.

I repeat that the only money missing is the $40 million his party lost several years ago.

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, once again, the scandal is that it is coming from the Conservatives.

The government lost track of $3.1 billion. The Auditor General himself says that he does not know where or how the money was spent. However, the NDP would like to know where the money went. We are not talking peanuts, here, but $3.1 billion. That is a lot of money.

[Jay Aspin, Conservative, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there is nothing scandalous here. The only thing that is scandalous is the opposition trying to make the public perceive that there is money missing. There is no money missing, as I continue to repeat. It is summary accounting.

If the hon. members do not know what summary accounting is, it is a horizontal accounting system. This goes back to 2001. It involves the Liberals when they were in power. We have to reconstruct a summary accounting system to show the Auditor General where all this money is. That is simply the case.