House of Commons Hansard #263 of the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was senators.
Thomas Mulcair NDPLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, on May 17, long after the Prime Minister knew about the cheque, his director of communications said, “The prime minister has full confidence in Mr. Wright and Mr. Wright is staying on”. Yes or no, did the Prime Minister authorize that statement by Andrew MacDougall?
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, as I have indicated, Mr. Wright informed me of his personal cheque on May 15. This was an error in judgment. He indicated he did this because he believed that taxpayers should be reimbursed and he was prepared to ensure that happened, as in fact it did happen. However, obviously this was an error in judgment for many reasons that have already been outlined and for that reason, I accepted his resignation.
This is a couple of days we are talking about. The leader of the NDP withheld information from the public about envelopes from the mayor of Laval for 17 years. He can explain that.
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
Mr. Speaker, if the Prime Minister's Office wanted to save the taxpayers $90,000 from Mike Duffy's expenses, it could have docked his Senate pay until it was paid back. The Prime Minister said that his chief of staff thought, ethics rules and criminal law aside, that writing a big cheque was the best plan. I presume the Prime Minister would not buy that flimsy excuse any more than Canadians do.
What real reason did Nigel Wright give for writing that $90,000 cheque?
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, once again, Mr. Wright has been clear about why he did what he did and the effect of what he did. He has also accepted responsibility for that. He has been very clear that he is prepared to be accountable and answer all questions from the Ethics Commissioner and all authorities, and he is doing that.
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
If the Prime Minister's Office really wanted to reimburse taxpayers for Mike Duffy's $90,000 in expenses, it could have deducted the money from his pay.
The Prime Minister claims that despite the ethics rules and the Criminal Code, his chief of staff thought that the best solution was to write a big cheque.
If I can be so bold as to assume that the Prime Minister did not buy this excuse any more than Canadians do, what real reasons did Nigel Wright give for writing that $90,000 cheque?
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, Mr. Wright said he wrote cheques to ensure that the taxpayers would be reimbursed, and he actually repaid taxpayers out of his own pocket.
He admitted that this was an error in judgment and he is prepared to be accountable to the authorities, including the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner.
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
Mr. Speaker, we still have not heard why. Perhaps the real reason is linked to the fact that Nigel Wright was a director, for seven years, of the Conservative Fund, the fundraising arm of the Conservative Party, including in 2008, when Mike Duffy was appointed to the Senate and became active as an important fundraiser.
I will ask the Prime Minister again: Why did he appoint Mike Duffy to the Senate?
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, once again, we need to be absolutely clear here. Mr. Wright paid these monies from his own personal funds. That was his decision, for which he takes full responsibility.
We appoint a range of Canadians from different backgrounds to the Senate, and we expect all of these senators to, obviously, uphold higher standards of ethics in the use of taxpayers' money. If they do not, we expect there to be accountability.
On this side of the House, unlike the Liberal Party, we think the Senate needs to be reformed or abolished. We do not defend the status quo.
Thomas Mulcair NDPLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, something does not add up. The Prime Minister just said that Nigel Wright's motive in cutting the $90,000 cheque was to protect the taxpayers. Mike Duffy is a wealthy man. He owns two houses, and he is earning a six-figure salary. The Senate could have obliged him to reimburse. There is no way the taxpayer could have been on the hook for that money.
How can he believe that that is the motive? It does not even make sense.
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is this: Mr. Wright spent his own money. He assured that that money went back to the Receiver General of Canada, to the taxpayers of Canada. He wanted the taxpayers reimbursed, and he is prepared to be accountable before the Ethics Commissioner and others for his decision in that matter, which he admits was an error in judgment.
Thomas Mulcair NDPLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, it is clear that the Senate could have forced Mike Duffy to pay. Is it not also clear that Nigel Wright's real motive was to get this problem out of the Prime Minister's Office, as he had ordered during the meeting of his caucus where Nigel Wright was present?
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, I have been very clear. I never gave any such order, any suggestion nor had any idea that Mr. Wright was using his personal money to make sure the taxpayers were reimbursed. That is a decision he took on his own that he chose not to inform me about. He admits that was an error in judgment, and he will be accountable to the Ethics Commissioner for that decision.
Thomas Mulcair NDPLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, since February, how many times has the Prime Minister spoken to Senator Marjory LeBreton about the Senate expense scandal?
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, obviously, I speak to the senators regularly, and I encourage the Senate to take measures to ensure that senators treat taxpayers' money with respect and uphold the highest standards of behaviour.
That is what we expect from all of the senators.
Thomas Mulcair NDPLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, the results of the Pamela Wallin audit are expected in the coming days. Has the Prime Minister been briefed in any way, shape or form concerning the preliminary results of the audit of Pamela Wallin, Yes or no?
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of the results of the audit. I am aware that the audit has taken considerable time, and considerable issues remain unresolved. Beyond that, I am not aware of any particulars. Obviously, Senator Wallin has stepped outside the Conservative caucus and understands she must resolve these matters.
Thomas Mulcair NDPLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, was Pamela Wallin offered the same deal by the Prime Minister's chief of staff that was offered to Mike Duffy, Yes or no?
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, Mr. Wright informed me of his payment to Senator Duffy on May 15. I immediately required that matter to be disclosed, both to the Ethics Commissioner and to the public. At the same time, I did ask Mr. Wright whether he had any similar arrangements or had discussed any similar arrangements or had any similar arrangements with other senators, and he said no.
Thomas Mulcair NDP Outremont, QC
Mr. Speaker, Benjamin Perrin has said that he was not involved in the “decision” to pay Mike Duffy $90,000. He has not said if he was involved in the transaction in other ways.
Can the Prime Minister tell us if his lawyer, Ben Perrin, was involved in any way, shape or form in this transaction with Mike Duffy?
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, Mr. Perrin, who is now a private citizen, speaks for himself on these matters. I believe, in fact, he has answered these questions and obviously would be prepared to answer the questions from anybody else, just as I have done here.
While we are answering questions, exactly how many stuffed envelopes over his career in Quebec provincial politics was the leader of the NDP offered?
Thomas Mulcair NDPLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Prime Minister refused to say whether Ray Novak was involved in any of these discussions concerning Mike Duffy. I would like to ask the Prime Minister clearly now: Was Ray Novak involved in any way, shape or form in these discussions concerning Mike Duffy, yes or no?
Stephen Harper ConservativePrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, once again, the facts here are very clear. Mr. Wright decided to take an action on his own initiative, using his own funds. These actions are his sole responsibility. I have no information before me to suggest they are anyone else's responsibility. Mr. Wright is obviously answering for those actions, which he admits were a mistake, to the appropriate authorities.
