House of Commons Hansard #38 of the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was service.

Topics

The House resumed consideration of the motion.

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:10 p.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have an opportunity to rise today to speak to this extremely important motion. It is important because it is sadly necessary for this motion to be brought before the House of Commons. One would think that we would not have to debate a motion such as this in the House of Commons.

For those who are watching and have not had a chance to see it, I will read it. The motion sounds like something that would be taken for granted and reads:

That, in the opinion of the House, the men and women who bravely serve Canada in the armed forces should be able to count on the government for support in their time of need, and that the government should demonstrate this support by (a) immediately addressing the mental health crisis facing Canadian soldiers and veterans by hiring appropriate mental health professionals;

Should that need to be addressed by the House of Commons? It should be taken for granted.

The motion continues:

(b) reversing its decision to close veterans' offices;

We have had a significant debate about that already.

It continues:

and (c) prioritizing and concluding the over 50 outstanding boards of inquiry on military suicides so that grieving families may have answers and closure.

Those are the three matters before the House for debate today.

I should add that one of the extremely important aspects of a board of inquiry is that its purpose is not only to find out the cause of death and what contributed to the death of a soldier in the case of a suicide, but also to examine what preventative measures may be undertaken to ensure that it does not happen again.

We have the shocking situation that in excess of 50 boards of inquiry, whose numbers are going up not down, have been outstanding, some going back as far as 2008.

The minister made an announcement today that some action will be taken. I saw the release. It indicates that a task force will be undertaken to speed up this process. What disturbs me is that in the release these inquiries are called technical efforts. The words used are that there is “a special team to clear the backlog of technical investigations into suicides within the ranks”.

These are not technical investigations. These are military boards of inquiry, headed by a senior military officer, with investigations. It is a formal approach taken under the Department of National Defence Act and a defence administrative order directive as to how these boards are undertaken, because they are or ought to be taken seriously within the military, particularly when determining the cause of, and contributing factors to, the death of a serving Canadian Forces member.

I am glad that the minister has finally taken it seriously. This matter has been raised for almost a year now. In the case of these outstanding boards of inquiry, questions have been raised in the House with not very satisfactory answers.

At long last, it seems that the government is now prepared to speed this up and get them completed. It is shameful that it was not given the priority it deserved. This is something that should have happened. We have no rules within the administration of the Department of National Defence for the timeline as to how soon these things should be done. What is astonishing is that we do not have any guidelines or rules as to when a board of inquiry would be released. It could sit on the Chief of the Defence Staff's desk indefinitely, without a board of inquiry being released. That is important to know for many reasons. The families of anyone who loses his or her life are concerned about the cause of death, no matter what it is.

The contributing factor to that death can be particularly important in the case of a suicide. In fact, the idea that the board of inquiry would potentially come up with some means of preventing such action in the future is something that is very important to a family and to all serving members of the Canadian Forces.

The mental health of Canadian Forces members has received a lot of attention of late, and rightly so. We have soldiers who have served their country in Afghanistan, Bosnia, and other places where they have endured trauma. They have what has been defined as operational stress injuries.

That is the overriding term for trauma that comes about as a result of participating or being engaged in combat or enduring a serious traumatic experience. It happens in wartime; it happens in combat; it happens in other aspects of life. Sexual assault and sexual abuse can cause post traumatic stress disorder. It is a well-known and recognized disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders. It is something that is well researched and well known.

There are a huge number of incidents of post traumatic stress disorder coming out of the Afghanistan situation and previous engagements by Canadian Forces soldiers. There was a warning early in the Afghanistan conflict that this was going to happen and that we should prepare for it. I do not think that was done. In fact, the urgent, continuing and growing need for these services has outpaced the department's response.

A recent report by the Canadian Forces ombudsman mentioned the number of mental health professionals that we have. The numbers in 2008 were approximately the same as they are today, despite the fact that we have members of the Canadian Forces returning from Afghanistan in large numbers since that time. Nearly 25,000 deployments to Afghanistan have taken place. Far too many injuries have occurred as a result of these deployments in the war.

These Canadian Forces members need assistance in an urgent manner. These disorders need to be treated just as seriously and importantly as any physical injuries that our Canadian Forces members have suffered.

A problem that has recently been identified is that the positions available to be filled have not been filled because of bureaucratic decision-making inside the Department of Defence. We had information that 200 people were waiting to fill positions, but the positions could not be filled because there was a hiring freeze within the Department of Defence placed on it by Treasury Board. It was all designed to save money and to cut back on expenditures in the military and all across government, to the detriment of the needs of Canadian Forces members. This has to stop.

Our leader has asked the Prime Minister to take this on as a personal priority. We need urgent recognition that we have a crisis on our hands that must be dealt with to ensure that our Canadian Forces members and veterans have access to the services they need. We say “Canadian Forces members and veterans”. Some of them are actually still serving members but are veterans of combat in Afghanistan. There is an overlap in the terminology. We have people who have left the Canadian Forces who are veterans under the care of Veterans Affairs.

That gets me to the third problem we have on our agenda today, the closure of Veterans Affairs offices. We hear about the 600 points of contact. That is exactly what those are, points of contact. One can call a number and eventually there may be someone to talk to. This is what the veterans were told yesterday, that there is someone there who can help them get to a computer app. One of the veterans asked what an “app” was. They will get the veterans to a computer or to a 1-800 number.

That is the kind of service implied in these points of contact. It is not the kind of service that has been delivered by Veterans Affairs employees in the offices that are being closed tomorrow. Eight more offices are being closed, and one has already been closed.

I would like to have unanimous support for this motion. I think the members opposite ought to change their minds on the veterans' centres closures. The other two matters are matters that ought to be accepted by everyone anyway.

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

Selkirk—Interlake Manitoba

Conservative

James Bezan ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence

Mr. Speaker, I will thank my colleague for his input today and also for the work he is doing on the Standing Committee on National Defence, where we are looking at the care of our ill and injured soldiers. When we talk about ill and injured, we are talking about both the physical and invisible injuries that have occurred because of service as members of the Canadian Armed Forces.

I just to want to make sure that everyone is aware that the number of mental health workers is increasing. I know that since the fall, we have been able to increase that number to 400. That is over 30 new positions filled. The number of mental health workers we have now is more than double what we had just a few years ago.

Also I want to make sure that people are aware that not only do members have access to on-base mental health professionals but through Blue Cross, which is medical insurance, they have access to over 4,000 mental health care providers within the Blue Cross family. That helps to reduce some of these wait times.

The member mentioned the Board of Internal Economy. The minister said earlier today that we have directed National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces, where the Chief of the Defence Staff has taken the lead on this, that this has to be resolved. It is unacceptable that there is a backlog, and it is going to be resolved very quickly and these reports will be filed.

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Mr. Speaker, I, too, would like to acknowledge the parliamentary secretary's work at the defence committee and formerly as chair of the defence committee. He is quite familiar with this ongoing study. We are working together to make, hopefully, very strong recommendations to further improve the care and treatment of ill and injured soldiers.

Unfortunately, it has taken until today to get a commitment from the minister to speed up the process of these military boards of inquiry. I hope it will lead to very quick conclusions and hopefully to some recommendations that can help to prevent further issues of suicide within the Canadian Forces.

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the comments made by the member. I want to talk more about the difference between the service points. The government says that it has a large number of services points. That service point number is based on a telephone number. If people have an issue, they pick up the phone and call the number. The government says it has increased the number of service points in that sense.

On the other hand, we are really talking about the offices in which our vets can meet with an individual as opposed to having to talk on the telephone or go online. In many ways, this is the type of service our vets have grown to depend on and is what I believe Canadians expect the government to provide. It is something that cannot be replaced by a telephone or a computer. That is why the government needs to keep these offices open.

I am wondering if the member would expand on that need.

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately, it is true that the Service Canada centres we are talking about as points of contact are the same organizations that are already overburdened with calls and with layoffs of their own. They have so many calls, for example, in the area of employment insurance, which the service centres also handle, that the wait times for getting access to employment insurance are actually increasing from what is supposed to be a 28-day maximum window to now in excess of 33 or 34 days, and more than that in some places.

People are actually being sent to centres where there are already complaints about how long it takes to get through. We are not satisfied that employees will have the kind of training necessary to ensure that the veterans who do manage to get in contact with them will be able to get the help they need. We understand that it is essentially a referral service to a telephone number or to a website, which people may or may not be able to get access to.

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:25 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Opitz Conservative Etobicoke Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Trade, also a fellow veteran and somebody who was foundational in starting the True Patriot Love organization, the Treble Victor Group, and others.

I am pleased to take part in this debate today on the care of our men and women in uniform, either active or retired. First, I would like to take a few moments to offer my sincere condolences to the families affected by these tragedies.

As a proud Canadian, I have great admiration, as well as profound appreciation, for the important contributions members of the Canadian Armed Forces bring to this country. I served for a number of years myself with an operational tour. I have watched many of my peers who served along with me and have observed some of the problems they have developed through operational tours, whether it be mental challenges or physical injuries. It has always been distressing to watch a comrade suffer after giving tremendous service to this country.

Unfortunately, in the last two months, we have seen the tragic news reports about members of our military forces committing suicide. This has affected me personally. I have known individuals, both military and civilian, including one fairly recently, who have taken their own lives. These incidents are exceptionally troubling.

We have a vested interest in our men and women in uniform, because they are our soldiers. They are our protectors. They not only defend us in places abroad but also protect our people in times of emergency or distress, as we have seen during floods and other emergencies in this country. I salute the courage and strength they demonstrate through all of the ordeals and all the tasks they take on willingly.

Mental health care for military personnel is a priority for the Department of National Defence, the Canadian Armed Forces, and of course, the Government of Canada. Much is being done in this area. There is a lot of research continuing to happen. There is better coordination among all departments. The minister has ordered it. He is working on a review of the system, and in fact, there is ongoing research at DRDC. What a lot of people do not realize is that Canada has world-class medical defence scientists working on the problem. A lot is being researched right now, including hormonal issues and sleep deprivation and some of the issues that increase the stress and damage from mental injuries.

The government has recently increased its annual investment in mental health for our service members, bringing the total to $50 million. These funds are being used to enhance the military's medical health program and to ensure a skilled and sustainable mental health workforce, such as psychiatrists, psychologists, mental health nurses, social workers, addictions councillors, and case managers. To ensure that military members are provided with the best possible care, the Canadian Armed Forces also conducts research in the areas of virtual reality, medication, and brain imagery and has made clinical advancements in the area of mental health treatment.

One of the areas that has done research, as I just mentioned, is DRDC. As the hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence has noted, on the defence committee, the study into the care of the ill and injured is intensive and ongoing, and we look forward to seeing the results of that study at a future time.

Our forces also have a health promotion program called Strengthening the Forces. It offers suicide awareness and education training to promote mental fitness and to mitigate the incidence of mental health injuries. In fact, there have been a lot of aide-mémoires issued by the Canadian Armed Forces, which I think are absolutely brilliant pieces.

As a former commander myself, trying to make my soldiers aware and trying to make them able to self-identify when they are having problems is something that is critical to care. It is a leadership issue to stay on top of that. I did that as a CO, and I know that other COs are hugely concerned about their soldiers. Within unit lines, that communication is going back and forth all the time. Other leaders and peers have been instructed, and now understand, to watch for changes in patterns and for personality changes, not only in their families but at home and on the work site. They try to identify those problems early.

It is not a perfect system, but we attempt to do that, because sometimes the military culture, as it is, prevents self-identification, because a soldier, especially a combat soldier, never wants to be identified as weak. What we need to do is change the culture and the terminology around that, because it is okay to say, “I have a problem”.

A mental injury is the same as a physical injury. It just takes longer to percolate. We are seeing that with our allies abroad. We are working very closely with the Americans, the Brits, and others. They are having the same issues with their soldiers, especially the most recently returned from Afghanistan, because that particular deployment has seen intensive combat. The injuries do not always manifest themselves immediately. They can percolate for years. It is an injury nevertheless. This is something we have to pay very close attention to.

The goal of the Surgeon General's mental health strategy is to help prioritize the efforts of the Canadian Armed Forces. I just outlined some of them.

There is a booklet called Road to Mental Readiness and one called Road to Mental Readiness Aide Memoire, which I think is very well done, by the Canadian Forces.

The forces have received accolades from national and international health bodies for our mental health leadership and for the comprehensiveness of our system.

Is it all perfect? Absolutely not. We are finding out new things all the time, every day. This is something all armies around the world are experiencing, particularly at the end of an operational mission. We have to stay on top of this. We have to try to stay ahead of the curve. I know the minister has done an excellent job of trying to do that. He has demonstrated great leadership, not only in his own department but by reaching out to other departments to try to encourage co-operation and coordination so that everybody is on the same page. That is one of the issues.

Yes, sometimes there are disconnects between departments. Those disconnects are something we are working very hard to address and correct as soon as we find them.

Good health, and equally mental health, is fundamental to the effectiveness of any military force. Since the Canadian Armed Forces is a subset of Canadian society, its members' mental health reflects the status of Canadians in general.

It poses a greater burden on our health care system than all cancers combined. It is estimated that one in five Canadians will develop a mental illness. Every day, half a million Canadians are absent from work due to mental illness. This is something important to know. Yes, we have this going on in the military right now, which we are gravely concerned about. However, this is an issue that is widely felt in the civilian world as well.

I think I need to mention that often, Canadian Armed Forces veterans are hesitant to self-identify, because they do not want to be stigmatized. That is something else we have to address. We have to change the definition and the parameters around that stigmatization, which really does not exist. However, it exists in the minds of soldiers, who do not want to appear in any way, shape, or form, in their terminology, broken.

Tuesday we had Bell Let's Talk Day. If military members do not want to address an issue through the chain of command and need some assistance with advice and guidance, there are a lot of civilian lines they can also call to get some of that advice and guidance if they feel safer doing that.

I would urge all members to find, when they need it, some advice and guidance somewhere. There are a lot of vehicles available to them to do that, and it is critical that they do.

Studies have demonstrated that the overall prevalence of one or more mental illnesses in the Canadian Armed Forces is similar to that of the general population, as I said. I also said that we are working to address the stigma attached, which we hope to eliminate through communication, through information, and through the work of all members of this House.

Quite frankly, every member of this House is very concerned about this, and rightly so. Every member of this House is very concerned about the health and well-being of all of our soldiers, whether they are currently serving or are past their service time. It is important that we all note, and that Canadian armed forces personnel past and present understand, that this House is on their side and we are going to work very closely.

There is a lot to talk about here. We are going to continue to do that. It is crucial that we do, and it is crucial that we put all the moving parts together to ensure that the system that is capable of assisting our soldiers and making sure they achieve their optimal health is put in place. It is our responsibility to do so.

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Rosane Doré Lefebvre NDP Alfred-Pellan, QC

Mr. Speaker, I think it is shameful that the government boasts about being there for members of the Canadian Forces, and then it completely abandons them. It is time for this government to stop shirking its responsibilities and to address the crisis facing soldiers and veterans.

Every year, the Résidence du Patrimoine in Laval invites me to commemorate our veterans on Remembrance Day. Many people shed tears as they shared their experiences in the Second World War. I listened to them with a lot of respect and thank them for sharing.

These men and women, who sacrificed part of their lives for their country, have to continue fighting to assert their most fundamental rights. That is unacceptable. We must help them and work with them.

Why do the Conservatives refuse to treat our veterans with respect?

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Opitz Conservative Etobicoke Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for her question, but I reject it entirely.

First, there are three veterans sitting right here. In fact, the member also mentioned World War II. My father served through World War II from the very first day until the very last, and was incarcerated in the gulag and went through combat all over the place; and my mom was actually taken as forced labour by the Nazis. Both of them, in their own way, still deal with those issues of so long ago. Those of us who are more recent veterans have seen our own comrades go through troubled times, and we are absolutely distressed about it. We have more veterans in this caucus, I think, than there have been at any given time.

I appreciate what the hon. member is saying, but the care, health, and well-being of our Canadian armed forces is a priority for our government. We have demonstrated that and we continue to demonstrate that, and the Canadian armed forces will always have our support.

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, like the member, I too am a veteran of the Canadian Forces.

Having said that, many people in Canada recognize that there is a substantial difference between picking up a telephone and calling a number, where they are receiving some sort of assistance over the telephone, versus being able to go to an office where they walk through a door and meet with someone to discuss their concern. It is the lack of face-to-face contact that is really upsetting a large number of our veterans from coast to coast to coast. This is what we are asking the government to look at.

Why do the Conservatives want to close that face-to-face contact? It is something that our veterans believe, and Canadians as a whole believe, our veterans should be able to have. Is there really the need to close them down? Canadians, members of the Liberal Party, and others are saying, no, keep them open. Why close them?

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Opitz Conservative Etobicoke Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, the face-to-face contact has not been eliminated. It exists. There are multiple ways now that we reach out. I heard one of the members earlier basically mock apps. Well we have a wide gap in the generations of our veterans, going from back in World War II to today.

The younger veterans will be able to deal with those apps quite effectively because that is part of their culture, part of what they have learned and part of what they use in school. Everybody has a smart phone and they can easily access those apps, and it is great for them.

For the Second World War veterans, sure it is a little more traditional, whether they go down to the office themselves, where there is an expansion of over 600 points of contact, or if they cannot go down to the office, somebody is going to go to them. I am sorry but a POTS line, meaning plain old telephone service, is sometimes the most efficient way. Although it is old school, people can pick up the phone and ask for whatever service they need at that time.

It is quite efficient that we have multiple methods for all veterans to be able to reach out and access the services they critically need.

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

Durham Ontario

Conservative

Erin O'Toole ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Trade

Mr. Speaker, it is always a distinct honour for me to rise in this House of Commons, but today I rise with a profound mixture of sadness and disappointment.

As a member of Parliament who has served, I am sad whenever I see veterans who feel their government or indeed their member of Parliament from any side of this place is not here for their best interest. I know I speak for myself and some veterans who are on this side, but I also speak to my friends on the other side, including my friend from Winnipeg Centre who hosted an event for veterans with me last year.

I am disappointed, though, because Ottawa has become a place where we cannot actually have a serious debate about an important public policy area like this. There is someone on that side proving that point right now.

I am also disappointed with the low level of knowledge amongst people in this place and people who gather and speak to us outside this place on how our veterans have been served, historically through to today.

I am also disappointed that just this week, on a panel, when I suggested the Legion plays an important role in the care of our veterans, I was mocked for that position.

I am going to use my time and the privilege I have as a member of Parliament to try to raise the level of debate for one moment and to provide some education. I hope my friends on all sides listen intently.

I joined the Canadian Forces at 18, and when I was released after 12 years of service, I said to my commanding officer, Colonel Al Blair at 423 Squadron in Shearwater, that I would be a committed civilian, supporting our CF and our veterans. I rarely speak about that work, but it has been a critical part of my adult life and a critical reason why I ran for Parliament.

I am actually an average soldier, or airman. I joined because I love this country. My area of Canada, Durham, has had profoundly successful and important soldiers, sailors, and airmen. Our community also lost Trooper Darryl Caswell during the war in Afghanistan. I know his family. I know the people who attended that funeral. Like many, I stood on the Highway of Heroes with my community to show support.

My area has also been represented by parliamentarians. Rev. John Weir Foote, a Victoria Cross winner from Dieppe, served Durham in the provincial parliament. Our only padre to receive the VC when he leapt out of the boats to care for his men and was imprisoned for the rest of the war, he was our local MPP. Another VC winner from Dieppe, Cec Merritt from British Columbia, actually served in this place.

We have had some profoundly important veterans in this place. I would invite the members to look at the statue of Baker out in the hallway. He was a sitting member of Parliament who died in World War I.

A sitting member of Parliament from Uxbridge, in my riding, the MP for Ontario North, served at Vimy during World War I and died, not at Vimy but at the Royal Victoria Hospital in Montreal. He was brought back from the war because of a nervous breakdown. That is what it was called in World War I. He had PTSD. He leapt from a window in Montreal before having to face the families of Uxbridge who lost sons under his command. We are now addressing these real needs.

Just yesterday my friend, the member for Kingston and the Islands spoke about the hon. John Matheson, another MP and one of my personal heroes who served our country with distinction.

We have almost 600,000 veterans in Canada and 80,000-plus members of the Canadian Forces, regular force and reserve, who will be veterans in the future. Of them, 130,000 have a file with Veterans Affairs, and 7,500 have an assigned case manager. A case manager is assigned when there is assessment that the veteran needs additional support based on an assessment of income, health, living arrangements, family support, activity, and addictions.

Veterans Affairs receives 730,000 calls per year. Fifteen thousand veterans have registered for online My VAC accounts, primarily newer Afghanistan veterans. Home visits are not tracked; that is unfortunate. It is something we should work on tracking, because veterans with injuries can be visited at home. There are 68 VAC offices, consisting of stand-alone VACs, 24 integrated personnel support centres, and 17 OSI clinics. Soon services are going to be offered at 600-plus Service Canada offices.

To address the Legion point—my friends opposite did not think it plays an important role—I say that the Legion is the most important supporter of our veterans. It was founded in 1925. In 1926 an act of Parliament was passed in this place. Section 4 of the act empowers it with the purpose to care for the welfare of our veterans. There are 1,461 branches across Canada and 1,400 veteran service officers. John Greenfield, the veteran service officer for branch 178 in Bowmanville, has personally handled 450 cases. He attends their home, or they visit him. He helps them, face-to-face, and gets benefits for those veterans.

In 2012, 12,000 veterans were helped by these visits from veteran service officers, who only have expenses paid and training through the poppy fund. The Legion has also helped with the veterans transition network, out of the University of British Columbia, and in recent years, the Veterans Affairs ministry has empowered the Legion to run the visitation program, where thousands of veterans of Korea and the Cold War have been visited by veteran service officers to assess their health and well-being. The Legion remains the most important direct, face-to-face contact for our veterans. I thank the Legion deeply for that.

The question before us here in the House and in conversations I have had in recent days, including with some veterans who came to the Hill, is the concern about the closure of some offices. We have to talk about assessing the needs of our veterans now and in the future. As my colleague from Etobicoke Centre said, there are our veterans who are in their 20s, from Afghanistan, and our veterans who are in their 80s or 90s.

My area of Ontario, the Durham region, has never had a stand-alone Veterans Affairs office. Have the veterans not been cared for? Yes, they have. There are a range of ways they have been cared for and will continue to be cared for. The important issue we have before us as parliamentarians, as Canadians, is to ask whether it is better to stay put and watch offices have five, six, ten, or twelve visits per day, or is it better to open up two, three, four, or five offices across the country to address mental health? Veterans Affairs offices are administrative points of contact. We have heard that term. They do not deliver benefits for our veterans. They help them access them. I would suggest the top people who help them access benefits are the veteran service officers across the country. They can also access these services through a range of other means. What our government is doing with Service Canada offices is now allowing that direct access point where face-to-face contact could be required to help with forms or other things.

In October, when some of these veterans came to Ottawa, I met with them. I attended the media event. One of them said to us that their issue relates specifically to whether Veterans Affairs training or experienced case officers would be available in Service Canada. We listened. The eight closures will have Veterans Affairs case workers in them as of next week, full stop, permanent. With a caseload of less than ten visits a day, one is appropriate. In most cases, the Service Canada office is in the same building or nearby. In my region of Durham, this will now give four offices in the area for that personal contact if one of our Legion veteran service officers cannot help them. Veterans did not have this before these changes.

I know this is an important debate. I know my friend from Sackville—Eastern Shore is passionate about these issues. I met him as an officer at Shearwater, and I truly believe he has veterans at heart. However, we also have the responsibility to ensure our system addresses the needs now and in the future. We have to make sure we meet the needs of all veterans. We have to meet the growing mental health challenges that our veterans face. These changes are part of our plan to serve our veterans better.

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the comments by my colleague for Durham in this important and very disturbing debate.

One of my constituents is Ms. Sheila Fynes. Her son is Stuart Langridge, who took his own life in 2008, having been told by the military that it was a function of substance abuse rather than the deep-rooted mental health problems he was facing.

My constituent Ms. Fynes talks about an endless array of investigations by a board of inquiry, military ombudsman, and she speaks passionately about the level of frustration that she feels. She claims that the expression, “if you're not deployable, you're not employable”, continues to rule at the military services in Canada. She said, “The military is always looking for ways to distance themselves from any responsibility”.

To my colleague, is her experience unusual or typical?

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for his question, and I would like to offer my condolences to the family of Mr. Langridge.

These changes are so that we can help to treat people like Mr. Langridge. We know there are mental health challenges; I think everyone in this House knows it.

These are the decisions of government. Do we try to hire more mental health workers? Do we open more operational stress injury clinics? Do we fund the veterans transition network, run by a veteran who has overcome PTSD? Or, do we only do things the way they were done in the past?

I would suggest to my hon. colleague that a combination of work with the Canadian Forces while the person is still serving, and with Veterans Affairs after release, has to catch mental health issues quickly. We have to train their unit to recognize these challenges and work with the families as well.

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

Mr. Speaker, in Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, in Corner Brook, Newfoundland and Labrador, there are two very important and productive offices that I would like to highlight. One is a Canadian Armed Forces recruitment centre, which is one of the most successful, efficient and highest-performing recruitment centres in all of Canada. Young people from western and northern Newfoundland are being recruited to the Canadian Armed Forces at a significant and substantial rate. In fact, the Canadian Armed Forces decided that they would expand that office. The other office is a Veterans Affairs service centre. That office is closing as of tomorrow.

I would like to ask the hon. member where exactly he thinks the veterans of tomorrow will come from. Will they come from a place where recruitment to the Canadian Armed Forces is on an upward trend and rising?

The current Canadian Armed Forces contingent is proudly overrepresented by the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. In fact, while Newfoundland and Labrador only represents 1.5% of the Canadian population, the actual contingent of its people within the Canadian Armed Forces represents 8% to 10%.

Where exactly are the future veterans coming from? They are coming from the places where—

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

The hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Trade.

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am glad the hon. member asked his question in the way that he did.

I had the profound honour to serve aboard HMCS St. John's, the proud frigate for the province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Atlantic Canada, Newfoundland and Labrador in particular, has a higher level of enrollment in the Canadian Forces. Within the Canadian Forces and within the navy, all the Newfoundlanders and Labradorians want to get on that ship.

The member is right; we are recruiting from those areas. The issue we have to address is where they are going to settle after service and how they are going to access need. I would ask the member to think about the next 25 years for these people who are signing up now at the recruiting centre. How will they draw services?

Veterans in my area, and I have talked to some, even ones that have been released with service injuries, do not visit the traditional bricks and mortar office. They tend to use the phone. They tend to register for and use a “My VAC Account”.

As I said in my remarks, we need to address the needs now and in the future, and offer flexibility for these veterans who are critical, including our special veterans from Newfoundland and Labrador.

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Rivière-du-Nord. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank my colleague from Châteauguay—Saint-Constant for introducing this very important motion. The men and women who serve our country deserve to be treated with the utmost respect and dignity. Sadly, many retired RCMP and Canadian Forces members are not being given the respect they have earned.

I am most grateful for the opportunity to take part in this important debate concerning some quite remarkable citizens of this country. They are indeed remarkable citizens because collectively they take citizenship very seriously. They prove their commitment to Canada through their service in the Canadian Forces.

When our country was in danger during World War I and World War II, or when our country called upon Canadian Forces members to be peacekeepers in places far from home, such as Somalia, Bosnia, Lebanon, Cyprus, East Timor, and Afghanistan when they were sent to serve in NATO, or when our country asked them to help communities jeopardized by floods, earthquakes, ice storms, forest fires, hurricanes, or tornadoes, they did not hesitate. They did what they were asked to do. They did their duty in the World Wars, in Korea, and in a multitude of deployments since then.

In the course of that duty, our country made a contract with them. Canada made promises that the men and women of the armed forces would not be forgotten or abandoned. The government made, and continues to make, promises assuring these men and women that they would be remembered and honoured by a grateful nation.

That is a wonderful sentiment. I know without a shadow of a doubt that the people of Canada are grateful and that they do remember and honour our servicemen and women in the Canadian Forces and the RCMP. I see it every day from my constituents in London—Fanshawe.

However, sadly what has become painfully obvious is that the government neither honours our veterans, peacekeepers, and those currently serving, nor is it willing to provide the services, pensions, programs, and special care to which these veterans, members of the armed forces, and their families are entitled. It is painfully obvious that the services needed are not there or are not effective.

In the past few months, the number of veteran suicides has been heartbreaking. There have been eight military suicides in the past two months alone. We mourn with those families. Clearly we are not doing our job in ensuring that all of our veterans have access to the help they need. The policies that the Conservative government has put in place are not working. Further cuts and the removal of services is not going to improve the situation. This is an obligation, and it is not going away.

According to Dr. Ruth Stewart at Athabasca University, “A growing number of veterans, as well as serving Canadian military personnel, suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder and other operational stress injuries”. She argues that the ability to deliver effective and relevant psychological intervention is increasingly urgent.

I have a quote from Dr. Pierre Morisset, a retired major-general and the chair of the scientific advisory committee for Veterans Affairs. He was a witness before the Veterans Affairs committee in February of last year. Dr. Morisset said “When a soldier leaves the forces and is officially known as a veteran, then he's treated in the civilian health sector”.

Dr. Morisset then went on to say that the civilian health care system “is not necessarily tuned to the reality of what kind of life the soldier may have had”. Similarly, Dr. Stewart argues that the Canadian Forces represent a distinct culture containing distinct subcultures. They possess unique languages, norms, and customs, and are socially stratified to a degree that is completely foreign to most North American civilians.

Once a soldier leaves the military, he or she is left to the care of civilian doctors who do not have the expertise to deal with the specific issues that veterans face. How can they, when one considers Dr. Morisset's observations?

Veterans are our national heroes. As such, they are a federal responsibility and should be looked after by the federal government. They are not, as the Conservative government believes, a problem to be offloaded onto the provinces.

The decision to close nine veterans offices to save money and make the government appear to be managing the finances of the country seems to be part of a larger picture, one of low priority and the out-of-touch approach the Conservative government shows regarding the care of our veterans.

I have examples. First, according to its report from last year, the Royal Canadian Legion identified 150 homeless veterans in Ontario alone. This is a disgrace.

Second is the cost of funeral and burial services. Some years ago the assets cut-off to provide monetary help through the Last Post Fund was $24,000. That included all the assets of the veterans. That amount was reduced by the Liberals. It is now just over $12,000. In 2014, the cut-off under the Conservatives remains at just over $12,000. This means that 67% of veterans will not qualify for federal help. It seems to me that $12,000 is rather a pittance when we look at the cost of things today.

Third, a veteran can be reimbursed for health-related travel. That is fine. However, what happens if that veteran cannot afford the cost of travel in the first place? It seems to me that there could be, and there are, veterans who need to travel for health care and cannot provide the upfront money.

Fourth, there is a shortfall in the number of mental health workers. The promise to hire them was made in 2003, over 10 years ago, and we are still waiting for all the positions to be filled. A health care provider told me it takes a minimum of six months for CF personnel to access health for post-traumatic stress disorder; that is six months for someone in profound and immediate distress.

Fifth, the closing of Veterans Affairs offices will be effective tomorrow. Service levels will be reduced for veterans because these closures are coupled with staffing cuts at the remaining regional offices. Regina, for example, will be taking on 4,500 files from Saskatoon, doubling its client numbers. The Regina office has seen a reduction in staff from 16 to 11.5 since 2012. My local London office will see its caseload increase by almost half when it takes on files from Windsor. The London office has two fewer staff now than it did in 2012.

Finally, there are the ridiculous lengths that the government is prepared to go to create the illusion that it is providing real help. Why on earth would the government spend money on an app for a smart phone instead of addressing the shortfalls in care for our veterans?

I should not have to remind the members opposite that supporting our troops means that we have to support our veterans too. When will the government stop with the platitudes and start looking at the issues that our veterans face every day? It is the least the government can do, and it is the morally right thing to do.

New Democrats are committed to our veterans and we are calling on the government to make veterans a priority. Specifically, we are asking for immediate hiring of the long-promised mental health professionals to assist soldiers and veterans with their mental health needs. We ask that the government reverse the wrong-headed decision to close regional veterans affairs offices that provide front-line services to veterans. We ask that it prioritize and conclude the over 50 ongoing boards of inquiry on military suicides to give grieving families answers and closure. Care for our veterans is part of the contract, the covenant, that we undertake with the people who voluntarily enlist and protect our country. We asked them to serve; now it is our turn to serve them.

I beseech the government. It is important that we have a decision on this today. We have asked for a vote on this motion tonight and we have asked the government to reverse its decision, to say, “We made a mistake. We are going to allow those offices to remain. We are going to serve the people who served us. We are going to serve our heroes”.

What did the Conservatives do? They said no, we are putting the vote off until Monday. They are putting off their responsibility. They are putting off that vote so they can say there was nothing they could do.

We have known about this plan to reduce offices and staffing for over a year. We have been asking the government about it for over year. We are at the crunch now, Mr. Speaker. I implore you to speak to the members opposite to tell them that our veterans deserve better than what the government is giving.

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague from the NDP in the London area for eloquently stating that when the VAC centre closes in Windsor, a lot of the veterans from Windsor will have to go to London to get service. She pointed out that the London office is being thinned out by caseworkers and case managers.

I wonder if the member has any figures that she can share with us on how many case officers are in London now, the current load, and what the impact would be once the Windsor office is closed and about 1,500 veterans are shifted to the London office. How are they going to cope? Does she have any figures she can share with us? It would be greatly appreciated.

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Mr. Speaker, as I said, and as the member indicated, the caseload for London will double. The number of staff has already been reduced by four and a half. I am not sure of the specific number of persons in the London office, other than it was 16. It is now 11.5. That will create a real problem.

Many of these veterans are in a delicate state. Let us think about the young men or women who are coming back from the travails of Afghanistan, or even from a peacekeeping mission. They need someone who knows and understands what they are talking about. They need that face to face. They need the opportunity to sit quietly. That is being taken away. It is reprehensible.

We owe these men and women something far more than what is being given by the government. It is time that there was recognition of that.

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

The hon. member for Edmonton Centre on a point of order.

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB

Mr. Speaker, I want to hark back to the previous speech by my colleague and some comments that came across the floor.

I am a member of a Legion, as I believe is my colleague. When he made the comments about legions being points of service, with 1,461 offices across the country, the member for Scarborough—Agincourt, said that they are drinking offices. I think that shows a complete disrespect for the legions, the members of legions, the good work that they do, and for the great work that most of us are trying to do for veterans.

Therefore, I think he should apologize.

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

I thank the hon. member for his intervention.

In this particular case, I do not know what the blues demonstrate in terms of the member's comments. However, if it is as he described, I do not know that it would necessarily be in the realm of non-parliamentary language. Therefore, I do not think that in this case we have something that we will want to take any further.

Questions and comments. The hon. member for New Westminster—Coquitlam.

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC

Mr. Speaker, I think all members of this House will agree that we need to support our veterans in this country. They fought for us, to defend the freedoms we enjoy in our country today.

However, not all veterans receive the support they so justly deserve. My mother-in-law served in the air force in the Second World War, but because she did not serve overseas, she does not qualify for support. I have spoken to ministers about this, and I have received the same response. They say that she does not qualify for support.

Now that the government is further eroding these services, closing veterans service centres across the country, I ask this of our hon. member who has spoken today and presented passionately.

Would it not be the right thing to do: to support this motion and reverse the decision to close these service centres, to provide support for our men and women in uniform who have given to this country, so that they can live out their lives with dignity?

Opposition Motion—Canadian ForcesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Mr. Speaker, indeed it would be essential for the government to reverse its decision. It is a bunch of bean-counters at work, talking about how much they can save so they can make themselves look good when it comes to budget time. They are not talking about human beings. They are not talking about our veterans or about the services we should be providing.

There is another point here. The legions have been mentioned. I am a proud member of the Duchess of Kent Legion in London, Ontario. There are all kinds of legions in the area: 427 Wing, Lambeth, Byron, and Victory Branch. All of them have dedicated what little resources they have to serving our veterans who have been abandoned by the government and by Veterans Affairs. They make sure that on Remembrance Day veterans are provided a meal and a trip to the cenotaph. They are taken care of by these legions, which offer the kinds of services or outreach not available anywhere else and that will be lost when these Veterans Affairs offices are closed. These legions cannot continue to do this forever. Their resources are limited. It is up to the people of Canada and the Government of Canada to lead the way, to make sure that our veterans are honoured, by providing the service, support, and dignity they have earned.