House of Commons Hansard #135 of the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was businesses.

Topics

Bill C-43—Time Allocation MotionEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

10:45 a.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Mr. Speaker, the minister said a few moments ago that omnibus bills were common. They have been common since the current government started putting 600-, 700-, and 800-page bills together and forcing them on the House through time allocation, which is also becoming common. It is 80 times that the current government has used either closure or time allocation to limit debate on measures before this House.

I want to ask the minister of state this. Canadians are not clamouring, to my mind, for rules that would allow provincial governments to cut off refugees from social assistance and welfare, even though they are not allowed to work in this country while they are refugees. Is that something the minister of state thinks people are clamouring for that must be put into a bill? It has nothing to do with the budget itself.

Bill C-43—Time Allocation MotionEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

Kevin Sorenson Conservative Crowfoot, AB

Certainly, Mr. Speaker, I think Canadians understand that this government is committed to helping all newcomers, including genuine refugees, integrate into Canadian society and fully contribute to our economy and our communities.

Canada has one of the fairest immigration systems in the world. However, we also have, in this parliamentary system and in this country of Canada, a federal government. We have provincial governments, we have municipal governments, and we have territorial governments. Each of those governments has jurisdiction for certain responsibilities. The provinces and territories are close to those taxpayers who believe that refugees need to have the proper social programs. As we all know, we transfer monies from the health and social transfer fund to the provinces so that they can administer social programs.

This is not about cuts for refugees. This is something that would allow the provinces to help those refugees in their--

Bill C-43—Time Allocation MotionEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

10:45 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

Order, please. The hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands.

Bill C-43—Time Allocation MotionEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

10:45 a.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, I just heard the hon. minister revive the assurance that every member in this place will be allowed to stand to debate this omnibus budget bill. Could we take this as an undertaking?

There are now 12 members of Parliament who represent ridings equal in importance to the ridings of any other members of Parliament. In doing our due diligence as members in this place, we have the right to participate in examining legislation. There are now 12 members of Parliament who are not members of the Conservative, Liberal, or New Democratic parties. Does the minister give us assurance that each one of us will have a 10-minute speaking slot on the bill?

Bill C-43—Time Allocation MotionEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

Kevin Sorenson Conservative Crowfoot, AB

Mr. Speaker, again, we are moving this motion today so that we can get into the debate on the budget implementation bill and have four days of debate and see it move from here. I mentioned earlier 10-minute allocations. I do not know how many speeches that would be. For four days members can stand and speak for 10 minutes in debate.

There are other opportunities. The member is not from one of what we would call the recognized parties in this House, but she certainly has the rights of every member of this House. There are times for questions, when the member can stand and question anyone who is speaking. She can make a point. It is not that she would have to try to stump one of her New Democratic friends or her Liberal friends or her Conservative friends. She may want to make a point on this budget--

Bill C-43—Time Allocation MotionEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

10:45 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

Order, please.

Is the member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley rising on a point of order?

Bill C-43—Time Allocation MotionEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

10:45 a.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

No, Mr. Speaker. I wondered if we were drawing near to the end of the time for this.

Bill C-43—Time Allocation MotionEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

10:45 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

We are drawing near to the end of the time.

The hon. minister of state may complete his statement. He only has about 30 seconds.

Bill C-43—Time Allocation MotionEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

Kevin Sorenson Conservative Crowfoot, AB

Mr. Speaker, I will defer my time to the opposition so that it can ask more questions.

Bill C-43—Time Allocation MotionEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

10:45 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

Since we are down to less than 20 seconds, it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings at this time and put forthwith the question on the motion now before the House.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion ?

Bill C-43—Time Allocation MotionEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

10:45 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Bill C-43—Time Allocation MotionEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

10:45 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Bill C-43—Time Allocation MotionEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

10:45 a.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Bill C-43—Time Allocation MotionEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

10:45 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

All those opposed will please say nay.

Bill C-43—Time Allocation MotionEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

10:45 a.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Bill C-43—Time Allocation MotionEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

10:45 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #266

Economic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

11:30 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

I declare the motion carried.

I wish to inform the House that because of the proceedings on the time allocation motion, government orders will be extended by 30 minutes.

The House resumed from October 29 consideration of the motion that Bill C-43, A second Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 11, 2014 and other measures, be read the second time and referred to a committee, and of the amendment.

Second readingEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

11:30 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

The hon. member for Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques has 10 minutes to finish his speech.

Second readingEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

11:30 a.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, my speech was split into two parts because of last night's votes. I will quickly come back to what I talked about yesterday to complete and conclude my remarks this morning. Yesterday, I mentioned that the Conservative government seems to use eight criteria when introducing a budget bill. We have seen these eight criteria in all of the budget bills that this Conservative government has introduced to date, at least since the last election, in this Parliament.

I would like to quickly list those eight criteria. First, the bill must be big. This one is 460 pages long. In fact, it is 78 pages longer than the last one, which was the first budget bill for 2014. The bill must amend at least a dozen laws. In this case, there are about 40 laws that are being created, eliminated or amended. The bill must deal with many subjects that have absolutely nothing to do with the budget, including some subjects that may appear to be related to the budget—such as the amendment to the fiscal arrangements between Canada and the provinces—but that, in the end, have no impact on federal finances. The bill must create a number of non-budgetary laws that should be examined outside the Standing Committee on Finance as stand-alone bills.

A perfect example of that is the creation of a DNA data bank to facilitate the search for victims or missing persons. That has no place in the budget. It should be studied thoroughly, on its own. I will come back to that.

The fifth criterion is that this type of bill must concentrate powers in the hands of the ministers. We have seen that with every budget bill, and we are seeing it again, particularly in the changes being made to the Aeronautics Act and the provisions of the new Extractive Sector Transparency Measures Act and the Canadian Payments Act. More discretionary power is being given to ministers when it should be here, in Parliament.

The final three criteria focus on including legislative amendments to restrict the rights of workers and immigrants, as well as a law and order measure. All of these measures, these eight criteria, can again be found in this bill.

I want to come back to the question of law and order because we are once again talking about a proposal, found in a division of part IV, that would create a DNA data bank. We are in favour of the measure from a philosophical point of view, and we proposed this same tool in the past.

However, creating this type of data bank raises some major ethical issues. That is why a committee such as the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security or the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights should have the opportunity to closely examine the consequences of creating a data bank like this. Right now, it is buried in part IV, where there are 31 divisions and this one, with respect to creating a data bank, is only one of those 31 divisions. I am not even talking about all of the tax measures in the first three parts.

We are MPs in the House of Commons. We represent our constituents and all Canadians. Despite the fact that most of the parties in the House cannot oppose these things as a matter of principle, we could strongly oppose them if the consequences of including these things presented a major ethical problem regarding the privacy of Canadians and the security of their person. Why, then, include such a measure? I can already hear some Conservative members telling us it will be referred to the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security. It will not be referred. The committee might discuss it quickly at one meeting, or two at the most, given that the time allocated to the minister in question already takes up much of the meeting. This usually comes back to us without amendment and without any opportunity for the members of the Standing Committee on Finance to really understand the nature of the committee's deliberations.

Contrary to what the member for Vancouver South said yesterday evening, these measures were not included innocently and without consequences; quite the contrary. This is not the usual practice. Before the Conservatives came to power, omnibus bills were about 100 pages in length, at most. Now we are routinely asked to study bills that are between 400 and 800 pages long and sometimes up to 950 pages.

It is impossible to govern or demonstrate good governance by taking an attitude like that and introducing bills that ultimately form the cornerstone of how the federal government operates. Debating such bills is something that not only the opposition, but also the Conservative Party members who are not cabinet ministers should be able to do; however, they refuse to engage in real debate. In the end, they simply repeat the talking points given to them and support the bill without even reading it. I can guarantee that out of the 160 or so Conservative Party members, only about 15 really understand the contents of this bill. They will not gain a better understanding through debates in this House, either, because they do not listen to the debates. Nor do they read the committee evidence to find out about the main issues discussed.

This government tends to view this side of the chamber as a non-essential part of House operations. It does not see the opposition as being able to assist in better governance. As the official opposition, quite often our role is to oppose, but we diligently fulfill another more fundamental role, and that is to point out to the government flaws in its regulatory or legislative proposals.

To the government, any proposal from the opposition is an obstacle, even if after multiple warnings, the details we submit to them or the flaws that we point out in the bills end up being authentic and valid.

In those cases, the government makes the necessary changes itself, or has them made by the other place, or uses subsequent budget bills to correct the mistakes that it made and we pointed out.

We see very little that is positive, despite what most Conservative MPs will say. Very little has anything to do with job creation. Very little has anything to do with economic growth. There certainly is not much that has anything to do with Canada's long-term prosperity. The only measure they can debate is the small business tax credit, and even then they are wrong about it, since it targets only those employers that pay less than $15,000 in employment insurance premiums. As government officials and the government itself have confirmed, this measure will cost at minimum more than half a billion dollars in lost revenue for the federal government.

What will we get in return for this lost revenue? According to the Parliamentary Budget Officer, this measure will create 800 jobs, at a cost of $700,000 per job.

The government says that the Canadian Federation of Independent Business is very much in favour of this measure. Naturally it did a study and found that this measure will create 25,000 jobs. The Parliamentary Budget Officer says it is more like 800 jobs. The government's only argument is the consent or approval of the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, which, at the end of the day, represents the people who are going to benefit from the half a billion dollars.

What we want, in the House, is an independent study to prove that this is an appropriate and effective job creation measure. The people in this chamber know very well that this measure will not achieve the objectives set by the government. Therefore, we are rejecting the only measure that even comes close to being a job creation measure or an economic measure.

We will have no choice but to oppose this budget bill at second reading. Given that the government has a majority, the bill will be passed and go to committee with the same shortcomings and the same mistakes.

We, the opposition, will continue to work diligently. We will point out the shortcomings and the main problems in this bill.

We hope that as the election approaches, MPs, especially the Conservatives who are not in the cabinet, will realize that this is not a good budget bill and that at least the shortcomings must be addressed.

Second readingEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

Mr. Speaker, my colleague indicated that on this side of the House we have not taken time to look through the bill. I wonder if my colleague understands that Bill C-43 has a very technical amendment in it that would extend the capital gains exemption for farm property.

In my riding, my farmers are a part of the prosperity of my area; not only the primary producers but the food processing that goes on in Waterloo county is very important. This measure would make it easier for family farms to be passed on to the next generation. This is an important aspect of our food security in Canada.

It is too bad that the NDP in the past has not stood up for the protection of family farms. This time, NDP members have chance to stand up for the protection of family farms and to ensure the good produce that our farmers produce year to year by passing this measure in the bill.

Second readingEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, my colleague's argument is the perfect argument against omnibus bills.

There are some things that we could agree to in the 460 pages and 401 clauses. However, just because we support two, three or four measures does not mean that we could vote for a budget bill that we reject for the most part. How can we agree to spend more than half a billion dollars with no guarantee that even one job will be created?

Just like the member who asked the question, I represent an agricultural riding. I recognize that there is a problem with passing on family farms. I am quite willing to discuss the possibility of facilitating the transfer of family farms, but not if this measure is buried among 400 other items. We cannot support most of those items because they have nothing to do with the budget or with prosperity, growth and job creation.

Second readingEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, I do have a question, but prior to that, I have a point of order that I would like to raise.

I would ask for unanimous consent to move the following motion: that the 18th report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs presented on Tuesday, September 30, be concurred in.

Second readingEconomic Action Plan 2014 Act, No. 2Government Orders

11:45 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

Does the member for Winnipeg North have unanimous consent to move his motion?