House of Commons Hansard #63 of the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was workers.

Topics

Questions Passed as Orders for ReturnsRoutine Proceedings

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Is that agreed?

Questions Passed as Orders for ReturnsRoutine Proceedings

10:15 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Question No. 192Questions Passed as Orders for ReturnsRoutine Proceedings

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

With regard to outside legal counsel, legal advice, or any other form of legal assistance provided to government by non-government lawyers, and broken down by year since 2006: (a) what is the amount spent by department; (b) what program activities across government account for the top twenty expenditures used for non-government legal services; (c) what are the names of law firms used; (d) what is the breakdown of expenditure wherein the government was the defendant, by department and by cause of action; and (e) what is the breakdown of expenditure where the government was the plaintiff, by department and by cause of action?

(Return tabled)

Questions Passed as Orders for ReturnsRoutine Proceedings

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

Mr. Speaker, I ask that the remaining questions be allowed to stand.

Questions Passed as Orders for ReturnsRoutine Proceedings

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Is that agreed?

Questions Passed as Orders for ReturnsRoutine Proceedings

10:15 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Response to Question No. 176PrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

The Chair has notice of several questions of privilege, and I will take them in the order in which I received the notices.

The hon. member for Avalon.

Response to Question No. 176PrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a question of privilege under the provisions of Standing Order 48, alleging obstruction by the Minister of State for Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, ACOA, as per the notice that I provided to you. I will be asking you to make a prima facie case, finding that a breach of privilege has occurred concerning a response to an order paper question which was tabled in the House. Specifically, the minister has changed the process and now intentionally interfered to obstruct from releasing information pertinent to my riding, therefore impeding my ability to perform my duties.

Some other questions of privilege raised in the House concerning order paper questions have been deemed to be a question of the accuracy of the answer to the question.

Mr. Speaker, I agree that you are not able to determine the accuracy of the answers to order paper questions, and I would not raise a question of privilege to do so. I understand that these historical cases did not constitute a prima facie case breach of privilege.

However, the breach of privilege that I am rising on today does not question the accuracy of the answer provided by the minister of ACOA, as I did not receive an answer that provided the requested information. Unfortunately, I have to rise with a question of willingness by the minister to provide important information from his department.

All members know that, as outlined in the House of Commons Procedure and Practice, a question may be placed on the order paper by a member to seek answers from a department pertaining to public affairs. The context of my question was to see what projects ACOA had approved in the riding of Avalon.

It is important that I briefly present the facts that led to this breach of privilege, as it is important to understand that this is not a question of accuracy; it is a question of why the minister was willing to provide answers to the questions in the past but now refuses to provide answers to the same questions. Again, this is not a question of accuracy, but concerns the willingness of the minister to co-operate and provide an answer.

I have placed a past order paper question concerning projects funded in part or in full for my riding through ACOA. On each occasion, the minister has provided a detailed list of all approved projects within the riding. The information provided had detailed lists, including project descriptions, locations, applicants, approval dates, and funding levels. The information was provided as such.

This brings me to the question of privilege concerning a response to the most recent order paper question, No. 176, where I asked for a list of projects that ACOA has funded in my riding during a more recent time period. Unfortunately, the answer did not provide the information that was previously provided, by simply stating, “ACOA does not track projects by riding”.

This is a definite change in the direction of the department, and I feel it is wrong that the minister has provided this answer to the House. In the past I have obtained the requested information from the department, and now the minister has become secretive and refuses to provide information.

It is relevant to understand that order paper questions have always been accepted parliamentary privilege in order for all members of the House to receive answers to important questions on public affairs. The minister for ACOA has unfortunately obstructed this long-standing privilege to receive such answers, and my work as a parliamentarian has been infringed upon.

The question I asked, in 2010, was answered and the information was provided. Unfortunately, we now have a minister that has intentionally interfered with my ability to obtain the same information for a later period. It is wrong and we need to ensure that parliamentary rights are protected. I ask you to review these facts and ensure we are not heading down a path whereby ministers get to decide when they will provide answers to these important questions.

I would conclude and quote Maingot's Parliamentary Privilege in Canada, page 239:

Untruthful, equivocating, prevaricating, insulting, and trifling actions have been held in the U.K. to be contemptuous, as has the refusal to answer to questions.

Mr. Speaker, if you do find a prima facie case of privilege, I am prepared to move the appropriate motion.

Response to Question No. 176PrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

10:20 a.m.

York—Simcoe Ontario

Conservative

Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I want to acquaint myself further with the facts and have a further response to you.

However, I do want to point out that although the member protests greatly that there was no response, in fact there was a response to his question. He is unhappy that the response is not in the detail, and does not provide the information, that he would like.

I would point out that chapter 11, page 522, of the big green book, reads as follows:

There are no provisions in the rules for the Speaker to review government responses to questions. Nonetheless, on several occasions, Members have raised questions of privilege...regarding the accuracy of information contained in responses to written questions; in none of these cases was the matter found to be a prima facie breach of privilege. The Speaker has ruled that it is not the role of the Chair to determine whether or not the contents of documents tabled in the House are accurate nor to “assess the likelihood of an Hon. Member knowing whether the facts contained in the document are correct”.

Again, he did receive a response. His problem is that the response is not as detailed as he might have received on another occasion or that the information is not what he would have liked to have received. However, that is really a debate over the adequacy of the response, not the fact of whether or not there was a response.

We will respond after we have a few more details, as well.

Response to Question No. 176PrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

10:20 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Mr. Speaker, we know that you have ruled on this issue in the past. Responses are often lacking in quality. However, you are not necessarily able to rule on the quality of the government's responses.

We will likely have more to add later. I simply wanted to reserve the right to revisit the issue.

Response to Question No. 176PrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

I look forward to further submissions on this question.

The hon. member for Charlottetown has also advised me of a question of privilege, and I will hear him now.

Oral QuestionsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a question of privilege pursuant to Standing Order 48, to allege that the Attorney General of Canada and justice minister misled the House yesterday during question period. We cannot accept a situation where the chief legal officer, the Attorney General of Canada, would rise in this place and, in response to a direct question put to the minister, mislead the House by making statements that are demonstrably untrue.

These are the facts. In January of this year, I submitted, pursuant to the Standing Orders, a written question that read as follows:

With regard to Section 33 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms: (a) what is the current policy of the government, particularly the Department of Justice, about the use or invocation of Section 33; and (b) since 2006, how many times has the government directed, suggested, contemplated or requested an analysis, examination or consideration from departmental officials within the Department of Justice, the Privy Council Office, or any government department, about the possible use of Section 33?

The written response, signed by the Attorney General himself, stated:

(a) The Department of Justice has no policy on the use or invocation of section 33 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms commonly referred to as the “notwithstanding clause”. To date, Parliament has never made a legislative declaration pursuant to section 33, although certain provincial legislatures have done so.

That was the full response. There was no response to the (b) part of the question.

That was the response that the Attorney General provided to the House of Commons on Monday, March 24, 2014, just three days ago.

Yesterday, Wednesday, March 26, there was a question and answer exchange between the Attorney General and I during question period. I posed the following question:

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Justice has refused to answer my written question about whether he or any of his political staff have ordered Justice officials to review the use of the notwithstanding clause to overrule Supreme Court decisions.

The courts have slapped down the Conservative legislation on sentencing, fine surcharges, prostitution, their unconstitutional judicial appointment—and lest we forget, this minister fought veterans in court and lost.

Will the minister tell the House, when did he or his staff first order departmental officials to assess the use of the notwithstanding clause?

This is the relevant portion of his response. It states:

Mr. Speaker, I have no idea why [this] member is insisting on the government examining the use of the notwithstanding clause, unless it is based on the fact that it was his government, his party, that [were the] only [ones] who ever used it. Maybe the member has a propensity for the use of the notwithstanding clause.

The answer went on to describe the situation with regard to veterans, which is not particularly pertinent to the point that I seek to make.

The House relies on members and ministers of the Crown to speak the truth. Arguably, this burden rests in a heavier way upon the Attorney General of Canada, the chief legal officer for the country and an officer of the court. It cannot be tolerated by this House to have the Attorney General state, without equivocation, on Monday, “To date, Parliament has never made a legislative declaration pursuant to section 33...”. and then, for what must be assumed to be partisan purposes, directly contradict himself, by stating the following, two days later, in response to a question about the notwithstanding clause:

....I have no idea why [this] member is insisting on the government examining the use of the notwithstanding clause, unless it is based on the fact that it was his government, his party, that [were the] only [ones] who ever used it. Maybe the member has a propensity for the use of the notwithstanding clause.

We have before the House two statements made by the same minister that are directly in conflict with each other. It cannot be said that this was an error because one statement had been made some time ago, thus attributing it to poor memory. I sincerely hope that this is not a situation where the minister does not know the facts regarding the history of the use of the notwithstanding clause.

Two directly contradictory statements were made in the House within a period of 48 hours, and this is not inconsequential. To make matters worse, the Attorney General of Canada rose some time later on an attempted point of order in order to clarify his conflicting statement. He apparently sought to clarify his statement in response to a previous point of order from the hon. member for Mount Royal, who I should note, clearly and factually indicated that a Liberal government had never invoked the notwithstanding clause nor had there been any evidentiary basis to suggest that there was a threat to do so.

Here is what the Attorney General of Canada stated as he attempted to clarify his remarks:

For clarity, I wish to ensure that my answer did not imply that the Liberal government of the day “invoked”, which is the word that the member used, the notwithstanding clause, but threatened to use it.

The Attorney General, in attempting to clarify his remarks, further misled the House. He effectively doubled down by suggesting that his answer to me during question period did not imply something that we know from the record, he had stated clearly, as a point of fact.

Again, the record will show that the Attorney General of Canada told the House one thing on Monday, something entirely different on Wednesday in response to a question during question period, and then further misled by suggesting that he did not say what he said.

This is no minor matter, and this is not the first time that this House has been confronted with conflicting statements from a minister of the Crown.

Members will recall former Conservative minister of international cooperation, Bev Oda, who repeatedly told the House of Commons that she knew nothing about the matter of who had inserted the now infamous “not” in a cabinet document that was meant to approve funding for KAIROS. The infamous “not” had the effect of killing funding for KAIROS. That minister then repeatedly told the House that she had no knowledge as to who inserted the “not”, only to disclose sometime later, when confronted with evidence pointing to the fact, that she not only had knowledge of the infamous “not”, but she in fact had ordered its insertion.

On a point of privilege raised by my colleague the hon. member for Scarborough—Guildwood, Speaker Milliken determined that indeed there was a prima facie case to suggest that the then-minister of international cooperation had misled the House.

More recently, we had the situation of the member for Mississauga—Streetsville, who stood accused of knowingly misleading the House with a statement in relation to the so-called fair elections act. In that instance, the member for Mississauga—Streetsville told this House that he had witnessed voter fraud during the 2011 election. The member made that false claim as a way to provide some credibility to the so-called fair elections act. He retracted that statement after a significant period of time had elapsed, and only when his claim was proven to be false.

In your ruling, Mr. Speaker, you quoted a previous decision rendered on May 7, 2012, in which you outlined the test to be applied that would give rise to a prima facie point to a member’s misleading the House. You said:

One, it must be proven that the statement was misleading; two, it must be established that the member making the statement knew at the time that the statement was incorrect; and three, that in making the statement, the member intended to mislead the House.

On point number one, to prove that the statement is misleading in the case before you, Mr. Speaker, one need only examine the legislative record. The legislative record is very clear. The answer that the minister gave to the written question on Monday is accurate. No Liberal government, no Conservative government, no Government of Canada has ever invoked the notwithstanding clause. That can be discerned from the legislative record.

Point two, it must be established that the member making the statement knew at the time that the statement was incorrect. Well, he certainly knew on Monday when he signed the document that was tabled in the House that indicated the correct state of affairs.

Point three, in making the statement, the member intended to mislead the House.

There are only two explanations for his intentions. Number one, he did not know, or number two, he did know but attempted to mislead. I find it difficult to imagine that a parliamentarian of his experience, someone who sits in the cabinet, did not know the true state of affairs. There is only one possible explanation left.

Mr. Speaker, I will be asking you to review the record and to review the statements made by the Attorney General. I submit that the statements made by the Attorney General contain all the elements that you outlined in your previous ruling. I believe that upon review, you will find it is a clear case that the Attorney General deliberately attempted to mislead the House by way of his statement or, in this case, a series of statements to the House, that he knew or ought to have known were either false or an attempt to mislead.

We expect people to speak the truth, not to play loose with statements purporting to be statements of fact. Indeed, to deliberately mislead the House is a clear contempt of Parliament and must be addressed. This is particularly problematic in that these misleading statements were made by the Attorney General of Canada.

Mr. Speaker, if you find that there is a prima facie breach of privilege in this case, I am prepared to move the appropriate motion.

Oral QuestionsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

10:35 a.m.

Central Nova Nova Scotia

Conservative

Peter MacKay ConservativeMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, I would certainly rebut the presumption that the hon. member for Charlottetown is presenting to the House, that I have deliberately misled the House in any way.

In fact, as he himself in his presentation has reminded the House, I rose at the first opportunity to clarify what was said, as is clearly reflected in Hansard, that “…I wish to ensure that my answer did not imply that the Liberal government of the day...” used the word 'invoked', repeating the words that were put on the record by the member for Mount Royal who rose on the initial point of order yesterday and was ruled out of order by the Speaker.

My answer goes on to say with respect to “invoked”, “…which is the word that the member used, the notwithstanding clause, but threatened to use it. Members may recall that former prime minister Paul Martin, and certainly the member for Mount Royal—”. At that time I was interrupted by the Speaker, not yourself, another Speaker in the chair, and reminded that I was not, in his view, permitted to continue with my response. I then again tried to complete my statement on the record and was prevented from doing so by the chair.

What I was referring to obviously in that clarification was the use of the notwithstanding clause at that time, the threatened use, the political use, which was clearly the case in 2004. I am quoting now from a CBC report that says, Prime Minister Paul Martin says he would use the Constitution's notwithstanding clause if the Supreme Court rules that churches must perform gay marriages.” It was in that context.

He went on to say when asked by a reporter whether he would use the notwithstanding clause, “Oh, yes I would”.

That was the reference that I sought to clarify when I rose in this Chamber yesterday. That clause is in the Constitution by virtue of the Liberal government of the day. The member's question to the department was answered as he mentioned. He referenced the fact that he had sought information from the Department of Justice with respect to section 33 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms: “…what is the current policy of the government, particularly the Department of Justice, about the use or invocation of Section 33…?”

The answer that he received is quite clear: “The Department of Justice has no policy on the use or invocation of section 33 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms commonly referred to as the “notwithstanding clause…”.

The member then opines and complains that there was no answer to the second part of his question, which goes on, “…how many times has the government directed, suggested, complained, contemplated or requested an analysis, examination or consideration...”. If there is no policy, why would the government or the Department of Justice then respond to the second part about how many times it was used or contemplated to be used?

The member for Charlottetown cannot have it both ways. He cannot ask how many times the government has contemplated using it. He has been told that there is no policy in this regard. Now he is suggesting that there was an incomplete answer given to him by the department.

The clarification that I sought yesterday and the clarification today is the political use, the threatened use, of the notwithstanding clause by the Liberal government of the day. It was not the current government. It was not this minister. It was the government of the party of which the member opposite is a member.

I would suggest that my clarification was provided in earnest yesterday. It was in response to the attempted question of privilege raised by the member's colleague, the member for Mount Royal. I rose at the earliest possible opportunity to provide clarification. There was no deliberate use. I specifically said that I did not use the word “invoked”, and that is the key word that the member for Mount Royal tried to attribute to me in his attempted point of order yesterday.

I hope that provides the necessary explanation for you, Mr. Speaker, to make the proper ruling, which is to find against the member for Charlottetown.

Oral QuestionsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

10:40 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Mr. Speaker, we find this government's lack of transparency very problematic, and we have repeatedly said as much. This issue is of interest to us as well, so we will come back to it later. We reserve the right to speak to it.

Oral QuestionsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Mr. Speaker, I just want to come back to the specific answer given in question period yesterday and this further attempt at clarification.

The minister yesterday stated as a fact, and he used that word “fact”, that it was, he said, “his government”, meaning a Liberal government, that was the only party that ever used it. He stated that as a fact. This is not an implication. With the greatest of respect, this is an attempt to obfuscate or confuse. He stated as a fact something that he has, even in his response today, indicated that he knows not to be true.

Oral QuestionsPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

I thank the hon. members for raising this matter. As the Minister of Justice pointed out, this was deemed to be a dispute as to the facts yesterday by the chair occupant. After listening to the debate over the definition of the word “use” or how it would be applied, it seems to me that this is a dispute as to the facts and one member's interpretation of the word over another, not something that would rise to the threshold of a question of privilege. Therefore, I am going to make that determination at this point, after listening to and examining the transcripts of yesterday.

The Chair also has notice from the member for Winnipeg North on a question of privilege.

Statements by the Member for Edmonton CentrePrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, I, too, rise this morning because I am concerned about the statements made by the member for Edmonton Centre on March 24, earlier this week.

That day we were debating Bill C-23, the fair elections act, which is the government's term, when the member for Edmonton Centre, I believe, deliberately intended to mislead the House. I do not say that lightly, because that is a form of contempt of the House.

I would like to refer to a ruling you recently made, Mr. Speaker, dealing with another statement, made by the member for Mississauga—Streetsville.

I will first go to what the member for Mississauga—Streetsville stated and then to your comments, Mr. Speaker, as to why it is important that we be very careful in what we say.

I am going to refer to your ruling from just the other day, if I may, Mr. Speaker. You will recall that on February 6, the member for Mississauga—Streetsville stated:

I have actually witnessed other people picking up the voter cards, going to campaign office of whatever candidate they support and handing out these voter cards to other individuals, who then walk into voting stations with friends who vouch for them with no ID.

Mr. Speaker, you articulated a ruling that many of us in the chamber actually supported, because we believe that you were right in your assessment. This is, in essence, what you stated, Mr. Speaker:

This incident highlights the...importance of accuracy and truthfulness in our deliberations. All members bear a responsibility, individually and collectively, to select the words they use very carefully and to be ever mindful of the serious consequences that can result when this responsibility is forgotten. In calling on the Chair to arrive at the finding of prime facie in this case, the hon. House Leader of the Official Opposition cited my ruling of May 7, 2012, where at page 7650 of the Debates, I reminded the House that, before finding that a member had deliberately misled the House, three conditions had to be met:

Then you stated those three conditions, Mr. Speaker:

...one, it must be proven that the statement was misleading; two, it must be established that the member making the statement knew at the time that the statement was incorrect; and three, that making the statement, the member intended to mislead the House.

I really want to emphasize what we were debating at the time. It was, once again, much like your ruling, on Bill C-23. It is an extremely important piece of legislation, and as you know, Mr. Speaker, it is exceptionally controversial. We have had emotional debates on both sides of the House. However, it is expected that when members participate in a debate, they are not going to try, in any way, to intentionally or deliberately mislead. This is what I believe has happened here.

Let me quote what the member for Edmonton Centre actually stated. Please keep in mind that the debate on that day was all about vouching. The government's position on vouching is that we should not allow vouching. That is what the Conservatives were trying to espouse throughout that day.

Here is what the member stated, and this can be found on page 3778, March 24:

In the 2006 election, I was called personally and offered hundreds of voter cards that had been left in apartment buildings and so on. Like an idiot, I said, “No, we don't do that sort of thing”. I should have said, “Yes, come on down”, and had the police waiting.

It is obvious that the member for Edmonton Centre instantly recognized that something was wrong with that phone call. In hindsight, he felt that it was illegal, because he believed that the police should have been contacted on the matter. To the best of my knowledge, I do not believe that the police were contacted. I hope that the member will address that issue.

More importantly, since this statement, we have found out that the voter cards we are debating today were not being used back in 2006. This comes from Elections Canada. The reason the member was focused on the voter cards was that he was trying to discredit the idea of Canadians being able to be vouched for. That is of critical importance.

On page 65 of Erskine May's Parliamentary Practice, “parliamentary privilege” is defined as:

...the sum of the peculiar rights enjoyed by each House collectively [...] and by Members of each House individually, without which they could not discharge their functions...

I was here on Monday when I heard the member make the statement. There is no doubt in my mind that in making that statement, his intent was to try to give the House the impression that illegal activities were taking place and that vouching was wrong.

If we review some of the statements put forward by the member at the time, they were contradicted by media reports by, for example, the CBC, The Hill Times, and others. They seem to contradict what the member for Edmonton Centre was trying to lead members of the House to believe on March 25. I would suggest that such a review would be appropriate.

I look forward to the member for Edmonton Centre's contribution on this issue. Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I would ask that you find that there are grounds that this is a prima facie contempt of Parliament, at which point I would be prepared to move a motion to have the matter referred to the appropriate committee for further study.

Statements by the Member for Edmonton CentrePrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB

Mr. Speaker, I listened with obvious interest. My hon. friend gives me far too much credit for Machiavellian intrigue. It had nothing to do with trying to mislead anybody. I was simply stating a fact.

I do not recall him being in my office that day during the campaign in 2006 nor having him listening in on phone calls. He can choose to believe that the phone call happened or not. That is up to him. It does not constitute a case of trying to mislead anyone about anything. It was simply stating a fact.

With respect to the voter identification cards, they did indeed exist in 2006. They were used, but they were not authorized to be used as a primary or sole form of identification. They were certainly there. What Elections Canada allows, whether it is voter ID cards, vouching, or whatever, and whether they are not allowed to be used or whether vouching is only supposed to be one for one, does not mean that people are not trying to get around those regulations. Human nature being what it is, people will always try to get around a system, and they will always try to do that for an advantage.

It was in the heat of an election, as the member well knows. I got the phone call. Yes, in retrospect I should have invited him down. I should have had the police investigating, and so on. In the heat of an election, quite frankly, there is not the time to deal with that kind of nonsense. We just put it aside and moved on to the election.

There was no attempt to mislead. I was simply stating a fact. I got a phone call. That was the request. Voter cards did exist in that election, but they were not to be used as primary ID. I was not misleading anyone about anything.

I appreciate the member thinking that I am smart enough to be that Machiavellian, but it is simply nonsense.

Statements by the Member for Edmonton CentrePrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

10:50 a.m.

York—Simcoe Ontario

Conservative

Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I would like to elaborate a little further, because what we essentially have here, raised under the point of order, is actually a debate as to the issue that is in the legislation.

There are some very important facts, though, that have been omitted from the submission. The first fact that was omitted from the submission, and the wording was used very carefully, was that cards like this were not used by Elections Canada for identification at the time, the implication being that there were no such cards. However, there were voter information cards sent out by Elections Canada to electors at that time. They did receive them. Hence the phone call that the hon. member received.

Having been Minister for Democratic Reform in the period after 2006, I can say that the reason Elections Canada can say with certainty that they were not authorized for use as identification is that we had not yet passed into law the requirement for people to show identification when they voted, so of course they were not used for a provision that did not yet exist in the law.

The fact that they were not used for that purpose is a red herring. It is entirely irrelevant. Everybody knows what the practice was in those days. There was no requirement to show identification. What most people did was walk in, take the card they had received at their home, present it, and say that they were there to vote. There was no inquiry into whether that was who they were or not. Elections officials simply accepted the card, and people voted on that basis.

That is why the action to which the hon. member for Edmonton Centre was referring was one whereby somebody was saying that they knew a way that they could probably achieve fraud. The reason they knew this was that anybody who lived in an apartment and who threw away their card was unlikely to bother showing up to vote, so there was a good chance someone else could show up in their name, present their card, and vote.

When we look at all those facts, it is quite clear that nothing the hon. member for Edmonton Centre said was incorrect or misleading in any way. In fact, if someone is misleading right now, it is the individual who is trying to raise the question of privilege. He is the one who is misleading the House, because he is implying there were voter identification provisions that did not exist in the law at the time and he is implying that Elections Canada did not send out such cards, which at that time they did.

I would say that this is an open-and-shut case. There is no question of privilege here to be presented. This is a very different matter from what was raised earlier in the House.

Statements by the Member for Edmonton CentrePrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

10:55 a.m.

NDP

Robert Chisholm NDP Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Mr. Speaker, I listened with great interest to the point being raised by the member for Winnipeg North.

While there may be some merit to it, on behalf of the official opposition I would like to indicate that we reserve the opportunity to comment at a later point in time. We just have not had the opportunity to consider the merits in detail.

Statements by the Member for Edmonton CentrePrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

10:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

I do understand the hon. member's desire to weigh in on this matter, but allow me to save him the trouble.

After listening to the statements by the member for Winnipeg North and the response from the member for Edmonton Centre, there certainly is not anything before the Chair as to any kind of evidence that the member knowingly said anything that he knew at the time not to be true.

This seems to be a dispute as to what may or may not have happened in the 2006 election, but there is certainly nothing that would indicate to the Chair that the member has knowingly misled the House. Members are free to have this kind of debate when the bill is back in the House and at committee. I do not think it should be brought to the floor as debate continued under the guise of a question of privilege, because there is not anything that I have heard that would raise it to that level.

Offshore Health and Safety ActGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

There being no motions at report stage on this bill, the House will now proceed, without debate, to the putting of the question of the motion to concur in the bill at report stage.

Offshore Health and Safety ActGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Conservative

Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON

moved that the bill be concurred in.

(Motion agreed to)