Mr. Speaker, I would like to share my time with the sometimes dishevelled but always chivalrous member for Winnipeg North.
If we could get to the heart of this particular issue, the House of Commons has spent nearly a day talking about a particular topic, a high-end and sensitive subject about jets and a privileged and executive class that gets to access the jets.
A Canadian, on a normal day in a normal lifetime, will never set foot on an executive private jet to go from one point to another within our country or to another country. It is a privileged notion, but it is also part of doing business in a country as affluent, as vast, and as broad as Canada.
We are talking about this issue because it is a touchstone. It is an example of whether we are stewards of the public trust and stewards of the tax dollar and understand that our roles and responsibilities go beyond the norm in making sure that not only are we ensuring the integrity of the public purse but are seen to be ensuring it.
We are talking access by the ruling party, the front bench, and occasionally guests on board private jet aircraft going to different events. I think we all recognize that a prime minister of Canada has unique responsibilities and circumstances that require his or her access to these types of travel services.
What I note about the debate is that we have not necessarily done a very good job of isolating the issues, proposing and formulating solutions, and seeking consensus on solutions. I suggest we have not used this debate very wisely because I really have not heard a concrete agenda come forward as to how we can move the goalposts and actually increase the level of accountability, create a consensus as to what that accountability should be, and then enact it.
I have heard a lot of talk during the course of the morning and afternoon about “That crowd did it, so do not expect us to do anything different” or “We never had a chance to do it, so we can say whatever we want.” It is not really so simple or trite as just that. Canadians who are listening to this debate carefully are asking for a little higher discussion and resolution to evolve.
If we simply say the goalpost is what was done in the past and anyone who did anything that may bear criticism in the past is no longer competent to participate in the debate, the debate shuts down pretty quickly. In fact, just about every debate that will ever occur in the House will shut down very quickly if that is the standard we use. One of our objectives, responsibilities, and requirements as parliamentarians is to move the debate and the standard forward. We have not done that today.
For example, if we were to simply say there is a vacant seat on an aircraft and that it is therefore not only reasonable but responsible for a civilian non-government employee, someone outside the government's normal business, to occupy that seat on a private executive jet to travel with a formal government party to another location, I am not so sure that would bear scrutiny if we were to apply the same principle to a military aircraft going between Trenton and Halifax. If I wanted my son's hockey team to go on it because it was empty and had some space in it, and my son's hockey team was going to Halifax for a tournament, why could the whole hockey team not be put on that military plane to go to Halifax?
It does not seem that this is a sensible option, administratively, from the point of view of ensuring that taxpayers' assets are protected and that stewardship of those assets is ensured. The military would probably be the first to say that it is not a responsible use of defence assets. Why is it then okay for a civilian, a friend of someone, a business partner, or a friend of a political party to accompany the Prime Minister on that jet if there is an empty seat on it? Why would someone not do that? It is because there is a protocol.
Perhaps it is not the right standard to use to simply say that if there is a seat vacant, it is open for the next occupant who might want to use it. How would we price that seat if indeed we were to use it? Perhaps I might be able to bid on a plane ticket at a charity auction. If the plane ticket came in at $50 to go between Halifax and Ottawa, maybe that would be the market value of the seat. That is what I saw here today. There was a little bit of trying to determine the lowest value of a seat. We would establish that by getting the lowest fare one could possibly find and using it as the benchmark. There might be a lot of $50 seats in private executive jets in the very near future.
I am not so sure this is the right standard to use for pricing this particular service and for making sure that the taxpayers' investment is protected.
What the jet should be used for is also relevant and important. It would have been good if we could have come to a consensus within the House as to whether it is right for the Prime Minister to use a Department of National Defence Challenger jet aircraft to go to political events. The answer could be yes if we were to determine that the Prime Minister has certain responsibilities and has to travel on this aircraft, based on RCMP security advice. The question then becomes whether it is something that should occur on a weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly basis. We did not establish that.
The other thing we need to establish is whether it is fair for the Prime Minister, who has to use these jets, to expect the taxpayers to transport his family to different events. Again, the argument comes back to the Prime Minister having to travel by this aircraft to go to other locations in the country. The question then becomes not whether it is responsible but how often it is responsible for the Prime Minister to use this jet.
If we establish a credible standard of accountability, give people confidence that we understand that the stewardship of taxpayers' dollars is our primary objective, and at the same time take complicated matters, assimilate a variety of issues, and come forward with a credible plan that meets a 21st century standard, we will have done our jobs. I cannot see how we have done that here today, because we are really no further ahead in establishing a reasonable, responsible standard for an executive of the Prime Minister's Office or a minister of national defence to use when allocating or accounting for these resources and reporting the use of these resources to the public. Maybe at another time we might be in a position to do so.