House of Commons Hansard #86 of the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was chair.

Topics

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:45 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Chair, I rise on a point of order. You raised this issue earlier with the minister.

There is meant to be some level of equivalency. That is how committee of the whole is guided. We have had some latitude from the opposition in not interrupting the minister prior, but we are going to be here for some time. When the questions are put, there is meant to be some equivalency from the minister in terms of the answers that are given. Simply ragging the puck through the process does not help anybody. It certainly does not help us in getting the answers that we seek.

I would remind you, Mr. Chair, and I would remind the minister through you, that equivalency is an important guide for committee of the whole. It allows some fairness in the debate so that members can get through a series of questions.

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Chair Conservative Barry Devolin

The Chair certainly appreciates the reminder from the hon. member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley in terms of how to manage this process. I looked at the clock for the past several questions. The hon. member's question took 30 seconds and the answer was 46 seconds. The question was 26 seconds and the answer again was 46 seconds. The next question was 15 seconds followed by an answer of 40 seconds.

If the member thinks that the Chair should take a strict legalistic approach to this, very often a question can be asked in 10 or 15 seconds. I think all hon. members would agree that it is difficult to give an answer to that question in that period of time. Certainly the Chair has on many occasions reminded members when they are giving very lengthy answers and appear to be just trying to use up the clock that it is inappropriate to do that, but when a question is 20 or 30 seconds and the answer is 30 or 40 seconds, that certainly is within acceptable limits.

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:45 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Chair, the Canadian Real Estate Association reported that the national average price for a home in March was $401,000, an increase of 6% since March 2013. It doubts that the housing market has reached equilibrium or is cooling. Are we in a bubble right now? It is hard to know.

According to CIBC deputy chief economist Benjamin Tal:

The gap between the importance of the real-estate market to the economy and the lack of publicly available information on it is mind-boggling.

Will the minister work to increase the quality of the available data to allow Canadians to properly assess current risks in the market?

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:45 p.m.

Conservative

Joe Oliver Conservative Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Mr. Chair, the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions is working on this issue to obtain all the information it needs. There is a great deal of information out there, and we will continue to monitor the market.

As the International Monetary Fund recently noted,

The macro-prudential measures introduced over the past few years have been effective in moderating the pace of household debt accumulation and cooling off the housing market.

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Chair Conservative Barry Devolin

The hon. member for Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques for one final question.

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:45 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Chair, I would like to know whether the government is planning to privatize the CMHC.

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:45 p.m.

Conservative

Joe Oliver Conservative Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

No, Mr. Chair.

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:45 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Chair, Professor Ian Lee believes that the government has “a plan for CMHC which it has not disclosed yet”.

The Financial Post says:

Rob McLister, editor of Canadian Mortgage Trends, agrees the latest moves are likely part of a larger government plan to slowly privatize the mortgage default insurance business.

Sources at Industry Canada told the Financial Post that the Department of Finance spearheaded CMHC's move to tighten mortgage insurance rules for that purpose.

I am asking the minister again: is the government preparing right now to privatize CMHC?

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

Conservative

Joe Oliver Conservative Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Mr. Chair, I answered the question before. The hon. member cited rumours and now wants to be reassured that I meant what I said, and I do.

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

Cypress Hills—Grasslands Saskatchewan

Conservative

David Anderson ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs

Mr. Chair, it is good to be here tonight and to be able to discuss some of these issues. I have been sitting here for quite some time listening to the debate.

I guess I am surprised. I thought that the NDP would have come with some positive suggestions, but again tonight it accuses us of ragging the puck. However, what we have seen is the NDP ragging the puck. It basically has no positive contribution to present at all. It is just criticism, as usual. It is always critical, never constructive. Those of us who have had to sit through NDP regimes know how damaging and destructive it is whenever it gets a chance to put any of its policies into place. It is because of the NDP's failed policies that some of us have seen our province fall decades behind others, so I understand why it would not want to present them here tonight.

I am grateful for the opportunity to appear before this committee. In my time today, I would like to focus on the important contribution that natural resources, forestry, and agriculture make to the Canadian economy.

They are a pillar of our Conservative government's action plan. These sectors create jobs and prosperity, particularly in rural communities across the country.

Consider, for example, Canada's natural resource sector. The sector represents 18% of the economy and over half of our exports. It supports 1.8 million jobs directly and indirectly. Furthermore, it generates about $30 billion annually in revenue to governments, equal to approximately half of all spending, for example, on hospitals in Canada in 2013.

There are hundreds of natural resource projects under way or planned in Canada over the next 10 years, representing a total potential investment of $650 billion. A significant element of this economic boost is represented by Canada's unique oil sands industry, and this sector is an asset that will increasingly contribute to the prosperity of all Canadians.

The oil sands are among the world's largest technology projects, contributing about 275,000 jobs across Canada and $48 billion in GDP, numbers that could grow to an average of 630,000 jobs and a contribution of $113 billion in GDP per year up to 2035. This is owing to an increase in global demand for resources, particularly from emerging economies.

Increasing global demand for resources such as oil, particularly from those economies, will create new economic and job opportunities from which all Canadians will ultimately benefit. However, Canadians will only reap the benefits that come from our natural resources once investments are made by the private sector to bring those much-needed resources to market. Approval processes can often be long and unpredictable. Delays and red tape often plague projects that pose few environmental risks. That is why our government has worked hard since 2006 to streamline and improve the regulatory process at the same time as it is safeguarding our environment.

A modern regulatory system should support progress on economically viable major projects and sustain Canada's reputation as an attractive place to invest. That is why, as part of Canada's economic action plan, we are modernizing the federal regulatory system. We would establish clear timelines, reduce duplication and regulatory burdens, and focus resources on large projects with the greatest potential environmental impacts. For example, we would implement system-wide improvements to achieve that goal of one project, one review within clearly defined time periods.

We have invested $54 million over two years to support more effective project approvals through the major project management office initiative.

In the most recent budget, we supported the National Energy Board by announcing $28 million over two years for the comprehensive and timely reviews of applications and to support participant funding programs, and we would eliminate tariffs on mobile offshore drilling units used in offshore oil and gas exploration and development.

We also announced an extension of the mineral exploration tax credit until March 31, 2015. This credit helps junior exploration companies raise capital by providing an incentive to individuals who invest in flow-through shares issued to finance mineral exploration. The credit is in addition to the regular deduction provided for the exploration expenses flowed through from the issuing company. Since 2006, this measure has helped junior mining companies raise over $5 billion for exploration.

Our Conservative government has also amended the Coasting Trade Act to improve access to modern, reliable seismic data for offshore resource development. Offshore oil and gas developments create jobs and support economic growth in Canada's communities. Continued exploration activity is required to bring new projects to communities and sustain these economic benefits over the long term.

However, it depends on modern, reliable seismic technology and data, which is why amending the act would ensure companies have the information they would need to identify potential resource development opportunities.

In addition to supporting responsible resource development, we must not forget the important contribution our forestry sector makes to our country as well. Canada's forestry sector directly employs over 200,000 workers in all regions of the country, including in 200 communities that rely on the sector for at least 50% of their economic base. Our government has helped this vital industry stay strong. The investments in the forest industry transformation program introduced in budget 2010 have been very successful in enabling Canadian forest companies to lead the world in developing and demonstrating the viability of innovative technologies that improve efficiency, that reduce environmental impacts and that create high-value products from Canada's world-class forest resources.

Through programs like IFIT, we have seen an over 1,000% increase in exports to China, which has helped this sector weather the economic downturn in the United States. For example, IFIT provided support to the Tolko Industries mill in Meadow Lake, Saskatchewan to develop the first facility in North America to use innovative technology to boost productivity by enabling the production of different types of oriented strand board on one single production line. Economic action plan 2014 will provide $90.4 million over four years, starting in 2014-15 to renew the IFIT program. Our government will continue to work with the forestry sector as it invests in innovative new products and pursues new markets for Canadian forest products.

Finally, the last topic I would like to highlight is our support for the agriculture and agri-food sector. This sector accounts for $100 billion in economic activity and provides employment to over 2.1 million Canadians. It is a sector that we continue to support. Since 2007, we have partnered with federal, provincial and territorial governments. We have partnered with producers through a suite of business risk management programs, including agri-stability, agri-insurance, agri-invest and agri-recovery to provide assistance to producers in cases of severe market volatility and disasters. In addition, federal, provincial and territorial governments invested substantial amounts, actually over $2 billion during the first growing forward agricultural policy framework, to promote competitiveness and innovation, to promote food safety and environmentally responsible farming practices.

In April 2013, working with the provinces, we introduced the new growing forward 2 policy framework, which will provide more than $3 billion over the next five years for investments, innovation, competitiveness and market development.

In February, through economic action plan 2014, we announced the expansion of the types of farming livestock that qualified for tax deferral on sale by farmers dealing with drought or with excess moisture conditions.

Since 2006, our government has continued to create the right conditions to enable Canadians and Canadian businesses to feel confident to invest, to create jobs, to participate in the global marketplace and to grow our economy. The role of government is to put in place the right balance of policies and initiatives to support growth and to unleash potential. That is exactly what we are doing. We believe it is the ingenuity and creativity of individual Canadians that will create lasting economic growth in jobs in their communities and across the country.

Considering the importance of this sector, I would like to ask the minister a question. What recent measures has the government introduced to support the mining, forestry and agriculture sectors in Canada?

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:55 p.m.

Conservative

Joe Oliver Conservative Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for Cypress Hills—Grasslands for his excellent question, his penetrating remarks and his very interesting introduction.

Supporting mining, forestry and agriculture in Canada helps create jobs and economic development right across the country.

Economic action plan 2014 is proposing measures to support these important sectors, including extending the mineral tax credit for investors in flow-through shares an additional year until March 31, 2015; $18 million over four years, starting in 2014-15 for early intervention to prevent the spread of spruce budworm in Atlantic Canada and Quebec; and expanding the types of farming livestock that qualifies for tax deferral on sale by farmers during a drought or excessive moisture conditions.

First, let me expand on the first point, the extension of the mineral exploration tax credit.

According to the Mining Association of Canada, over 90,000 Canadians are employed in mineral extraction and mining support activity in communities right across the country. Promoting the exploration of Canada's mineral resources by junior exploration companies helps create jobs and economic development. By extending the mineral exploration tax credit, it will help junior exploration companies raise capital by providing an incentive to individuals who invest in flow-through shares issued to finance mineral exploration.

Since 2006, the mineral exploration tax credit has helped junior mining companies raise over $5 billion for exploration. In 2012, over 350 companies issued flow-through shares with a benefit of the credit to more than 30,000 individual investors.

Second, as the 2013 Speech from the Throne highlighted, Canada's forestry sector remains essential to Canada's rural economy. The government will continue to support innovation and pursue new export opportunities for the sector.

Economic action plan 2014 will provide $18 million over four years, starting in 2014-15 to support early intervention measures to stop the spread of the spruce budworm in Atlantic Canada and Quebec, including $2 million through Natural Resources Canada.

The spruce budworm is one of the most damaging insects to spruce trees in Canada, causing defoliation and tree mortality. Early intervention to prevent the spread of spruce budworm in Atlantic Canada and Quebec will protect the region from losing valuable forest resources to the severe defoliation that would be caused by a major outbreak.

Finally, our government will help ensure the agriculture and agri-food sector plays a significant role in the Canadian economy, accounting for over $100 billion in economic activity and providing employment for over 2.1 million Canadians in 2011.

Economic action plan 2014 highlights measures that will expand the types of farming livestock that qualify for tax deferral on sale by farmers dealing with drought or excess moisture conditions.

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Mr. Chair, I appreciate that I had the chance to work with the minister in Natural Resources. Once again tonight I hear him coming back to some of the things for which he was responsible, looking after the forestry across the country.

We know there have been global economic challenges, and Canada has faced them head on. We have been a leader over the last several years. I am often surprised. Opposition members probably should be praising us for what we have done. Too often they fail to do that or they are too embarrassed to do that.

Could the minister to tell us a bit about how Canada's economy is leading the way, leading the economic recovery, and how it is putting us in an enviable position?

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Conservative

Joe Oliver Conservative Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Mr. Chair, our economic action plan has resulted, after a robust stimulus program during the depths of the recession, in the creation of one million jobs, and in a debt level, which is one-half of that of the G7. We are expanding our trade with the world, most recently with Korea, the first Asian country with which we have entered into a free trade agreement. Then there is the landmark agreement in principle with the European Union, which will bring in half a million new consumers, a $17-trillion economy.

Through our responsible natural resource development program, we will capitalize on the opportunities that $650 billion of projects over the next 10 years will present. We will only go ahead with projects that are safe for Canadians and safe for the environment, but we believe we can do both. We can develop our resources and do it in a way which is safe environmentally.

Through a whole host of measures, including the reduction of taxes to a lower level than they have been in 50 years, our government is working for Canadians to build a prosperous future for all Canadians from coast to coast to coast.

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Chair, I have seen the minister's version of sustainability when it comes to natural resources. I hope he does not apply that same distorted view when it comes to fiscal sustainability.

Could the minister tell us what projections his department has made to the debt-to-GDP ratio, including the provinces, between now and 2050?

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Joe Oliver Conservative Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Mr. Chair, we are anticipating a reduction in the debt-to-GDP ratio to 25% by 2022. I do not have the numbers for the next 50 years.

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Chair, does that estimation include the provinces?

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Joe Oliver Conservative Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Mr. Chair, this is for the federal government. The current net debt ratio according to international calculation is 38.5%.

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Chair, it may be convenient to exclude the provinces, but there is only one taxpayer, so let us talk about that.

The PBO tells us that the combined debt-to-GDP ratios for the federal and provincial governments will be around 100% by 2050. Could the minister give us the number projected by his department?

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Joe Oliver Conservative Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Mr. Chair, I am not sure what the hon. member is really getting at. I told him what the number was today. For the federal government, it is about 33%, including all the provinces. It is a slightly different calculation but the international calculation is 38.5%. Our number is going down to 25% and one would expect it would continue to decrease from there.

Therefore, I can only assume that the hon. member has in mind vast increases in provincial debt. We know that some provinces are not doing very well at all, but that is outside federal jurisdiction.

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Chair, federal jurisdiction, but affected by the federal choices made by the minister and his government.

The PBO estimates that the current fiscal gap for the provinces is currently 1.9% of GDP. It will get larger each year at current levels of projected spending, including Ontario, as my friend from Ontario would point out.

What is the minister doing to alleviate the gap in future budgets?

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Joe Oliver Conservative Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Mr. Chair, the first point to make is that federal support has reached historic levels, nearly $65 billion, and will continue to grow every year. Federal support for health, education and social services has increased 56% since we formed government. We have also made changes to ensure transfers grow in line with the economy, allowing the program to remain affordable and sustainable. We are protecting transfers to provinces. Health and social transfers will, as I said, continue to grow.

Perhaps the member opposite is thinking about the former government, the Liberal government, which shamefully slashed transfer payments to the provinces and the territories.

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Chair, yes or no, does the minister plan to honour the Conservative 2011 commitment to introduce income splitting in the next budget?

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Joe Oliver Conservative Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Mr. Chair, I am not sure whether the member opposite is in favour or not of this policy, but as I have said, and as the Prime Minister has said, income splitting is a policy that is good for seniors and we will devote our attention to reducing the tax rate for Canadian families next year.

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:10 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Chair, is the minister in favour of income splitting in the next federal budget?

Finance—Main Estimates 2014-15Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:10 p.m.

Conservative

Joe Oliver Conservative Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Mr. Chair, again, I guess the member opposite likes our current budget so much that he cannot wait for the next one. However, good things are worth waiting for, and at the appropriate time we will reveal it in this House.