Debates of Feb. 24th, 2015

Opposition Motion—Special committee on the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Carter v. Canada

[Steven Fletcher, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for Vancouver East for her thoughtfulness in this debate, and my previous colleague, the member for Kildonan—St. Paul, for her eloquent words as well.

To the question, the motion today is one way to proceed; however, it will only be a small step, because we do not have time, which is really the enemy of the process. We have 12 weeks before the end of the session. We have a budget to debate and legislation that is already underway. We then have the summer break. Also, I suspect, although I do not know and have no inside knowledge of this, that there might be an election in the fall. All of this will eat up a lot of time.

There is the possible alternative of going through the Senate. That could be done if we could get agreement among the senators.

There are alternatives, but I think the bulk of this will be done after the election.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for the hard work he has done and the legislative work he did. I mentioned it in my speech, and it would have been a mistake not to do so. I want to tell the member that there is a lot of appreciation for what he is proposing.

I am sure that if this special committee is decided upon by the House, the member would see a lot of support from members wanting him to be on the committee. It would put his hard work and legislative proposal at the core of the discussion. However, if we do not start now, he is right that we will not have time.

I understand that, to the member, the special committee may not be enough in itself, but at least, as he said, it would be a step.

Will the member support this motion and convince his Conservative colleagues to do so?

[Steven Fletcher, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I have about as much luck of convincing my colleagues as I have of convincing the member on anything. We are all of our own making, and this is a very sensitive issue.

This is not a partisan issue, but it goes to the core of what it means to be Canadian. What we decide will affect all the Canadians who are alive today and every Canadian who will live in the future. Moreover, whatever Canada does, it will be a model for the rest of the developed world.

In short, I think we should look to what Quebec did. It took four and a half years. I thought Quebec did an excellent job, and it would be very wise to look at its process.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am thankful to the member for highlighting the poll with respect to physician-assisted death. I agree with the poll because there was only one question. However, there are a lot of questions that come out of this, such as whether the individual would have to choose or whether someone else would choose for them.

Based on your knowledge of the subject area, are there certain questions you would like the public to answer before you make a decision on where this Parliament goes?

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

I know the hon. member for Burlington was directing his comments to the member for Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia, so I will have the member for Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia answer rather than give my own views on it.

[Steven Fletcher, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia, MB]

To the member, the Speaker is a Saskatchewan Roughriders fan and could not possibly give an opinion on this issue.

Mr. Speaker, I would say that the only person who can make this decision is a competent adult. It could be no one else, not a family member and not someone who holds a power of attorney. To me, it needs to be the individual and only the individual.

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

The hon. member seemed to make some kind of insinuation there about being a Saskatchewan Roughriders fan. I can assume that as a Winnipeg Blue Bombers fan, he knows a great deal about suffering.

We will move on now to the hon. member for Winnipeg North.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I am a Bomber fan myself and I am an optimist. I believe we are going to go to the Grey Cup this year. I really believe it.

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure for me to address this very important issue. If we look at the broader issue anywhere in Canada, we would find that there is a great deal of interest in the issue because at some point in time we all have to make some very important decisions. I suspect there is a great deal of interest in what is happening today in this debate.

The Supreme Court set the stage in a clear fashion. It was not a split decision. The unanimous decision of the Supreme Court was that we need to change the law. With that decision, it compelled Parliament to come up with something to replace it. We have a responsibility to demonstrate leadership on an issue that is very important to all Canadians.

That is the essence of what we are suggesting today in the opposition motion. We are asking the government and all parliamentarians to look at what we have before us, to understand the importance of the issue, as I believe most of us do, and to start participating in the debate. It is perhaps most important to recognize the need to have this special committee that we are calling for.

The leader of the Liberal Party said it well earlier today in his opening comments on the motion. He said:

Physician-assisted dying is a complex and deeply personal issue, and Canadians are looking for real conversations about strengthening end-of-life care and support, including palliative care.

I believe the leader of the Liberal Party is reflecting on the importance of the issue and why Canadians are so interested in seeing leadership from the House of Commons. I believe we have approached the debate in a very apolitical fashion and in an open way.

I will get a chance to go over the motion, but most of us were here when the motion was first brought in, and we indicated very clearly that if people have ideas about how we might make some changes to the motion, we are open to amendments. If they have ideas about ways we could make sure consultations are more comprehensive, we are open to those ideas.

The party's decision to put forward the motion today is in recognition that the clock is ticking, because the Supreme Court has said we have until mid-February of 2016 to come up with the changes required in order to have a standard that would apply coast to coast to coast. We want to ensure that the issue is dealt with by the House of Commons. We do not want the law to lapse. If we were to venture in that direction, we would end up having different approaches to the issue that would depend on which province or territory someone happened to live in.

I do not believe, as we heard earlier in comments, that we have to reinvent the wheel, per se. As a number of my colleagues have already mentioned, the Province of Quebec has already made some significant advancements on this very issue. If we look at the length of time it took for the Province of Quebec as a legislature to try to come up with that consensus, it took a great deal of time. It did not occur overnight. That is, in part, why it is important for us to get started.

I listened to a lot of the answers to questions and to comments, particularly from government members. Their primary concern seems to be that they want something comprehensive. They want some sort of alternative to what the Liberal Party is suggesting that would allow for more input, whether from the average citizen, a stakeholder group, or a professional.

There is absolutely nothing that has been raised today that could not be addressed in a special committee of the House. Members know that. We all know that. A standing committee of the House has the ability to compel, to travel, to set its own hours, and to extend. The abilities of a special committee would be no different, because what we are suggesting would be modelled on a standing committee.

So that members will be as clear as possible about what the Liberal Party is suggesting, I would like to go over the motion. It might take a few minutes to do that, but it is important that people understand what the Liberal Party is proposing. As I go through the motion, I want to highlight the fact that the leader of the Liberal Party has clearly indicated that we want this initiative to be supported by all political parties by recognizing the importance of the issue and trying to address it in an apolitical fashion. I say that so that if members hear something that they might not necessarily like, we can talk about it and make changes. The principle is still there.

Here is what is being suggested:

That (a) the House recognize that (i) the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that the prohibition on physician-assisted dying violates Section 7 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms which states that “Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice”, (ii) the Supreme Court has suspended the implementation of its ruling for 12 months, (iii) the expected federal election and summer recess limit the remaining sitting days in 2015, (iv) Canadians expect Parliamentarians to take a leadership role on this issue and engage with it in an informed and respectful way, (v) a non-partisan, deliberate and effective discussion took place on this issue in the Quebec National Assembly, (vi) Parliament has a responsibility to respond to the Supreme Court ruling...

The motion goes on to say:

That (a) the House recognize that (i) the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that the prohibition on physician-assisted dying violates Section 7 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms which states that “Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice”, (ii) the Supreme Court has suspended the implementation of its ruling for 12 months, (iii) the expected federal election and summer recess limit the remaining sitting days in 2015, (iv) Canadians expect Parliamentarians to take a leadership role on this issue and engage with it in an informed and respectful way, (v) a non-partisan, deliberate and effective discussion took place on this issue in the Quebec National Assembly, (vi) Parliament has a responsibility to respond to the Supreme Court ruling...

It goes on further to explain the composition of the standing committee. The party was not trying to do a one-up. We based it upon current numbers of standing committees. I heard some individuals, from their seats, indicate that we should have more representation from the Liberals. That was actually coming from the other side. We did not make that recommendation in the motion, but if some members feel we should change the composition, again, it is something to which we are open, but at least we are modelling it off a standing committee, including that there be, obviously, a chair and two vice-chairs, one from each party:

...that the committee have all of the powers of a standing committee as provided in the Standing Orders, as well as the power to travel, accompanied by the necessary staff, inside and outside of Canada, subject to the usual authorization from the House; that the members to serve on the said committee be appointed...

Again, it goes through the process of a whip and says that in fact members of the committee, no later than March 11, put together a list with respect to the committee that would be put together.

...the quorum of the committee be seven members for any proceedings, provided that at least a member of the opposition and of the government party be present; that membership substitutions be permitted to be made from time to time, if required, in the manner provided for in [a] Standing Order....

I really do think that is a very important rule that we actually have for standing committees because, at different levels, possibly in different regions, there might be different members of Parliament who want to be able to get engaged on the issue at that committee level:

...and that the committee report no later than July 31, 2015, provided that, if the committee has ready its report at any time the House stands adjourned, when that report is deposited with the Clerk of the House, it shall be deemed to have been duly presented to the House.

In reading the motion, I believe it would reinforce many points that I started off my speech by talking about—the ability of this special committee to do the things that are important to Canadians and, ultimately, respond appropriately to what the Supreme Court has challenged us to do by having that unanimous ruling.

Time does matter. We do have a limited amount of time to deal with this issue. If we want to do a thorough job, we are not in a position to do nothing or to wait until after the federal election, as some might want to suggest. We are talking about a federal election that, according to our election laws, would be on October 19. If we are going to be doing the type of consultation that is important and that Canadians deserve, I believe that is just not enough time. In terms of parliamentary days, I believe there are actually less than 50 sitting days left before the House will adjourn for the summer.

However, I know that when members of Parliament from all sides of the House collectively come together and their intentions are good and they want to build a consensus and are prepared to make the sacrifices that are necessary—and I have seen many members of Parliament do yeomen's work in terms of getting a job done when it needs to get done—we do have enough time to be thorough and get that report.

We need to start the process. That is really what the motion we are discussing today is about. If members feel this is an issue that has to be addressed and is important to Canadians, then there is no fear in terms of having this special committee struck, or there should be no fear.

When I was listening to members, Conservative, New Democratic, and members from my own caucus of the Liberal Party, everyone seemed to recognize the importance of the issue. If there is unanimous opinion that the issue is of grave concern and that our constituents would see it that way, then I suggest that we have a responsibility to do what we can in a timely fashion to deal with it.

We have put something forward that is tangible, on which we can actually vote and act. If members do not believe this is the way we should be going, at the very least they should provide an alternative and tell us what we will be doing. They should tell us how that way being suggested would be all encompassing, and how it would address the issues that members on all sides have already expressed in their comments when making the statement that they wanted to consult broadly, have far and wide consultations, as well as many other statements.

In terms of the consultation being asked for, this motion deals with every aspect of that consultation, without exception. If need be, it would even allow for the committee to travel outside Canada if, through consensus, the committee felt that would be necessary. I suspect there would be the unanimous support of the House if it were deemed necessary for the committee to visit every region and possibly every province in Canada on the issue.

I know, as other members know, that there is no shortage of opinion on this particular issue. Time and time again, in listening to the debate today, I heard members give specific examples. I, too, sat at the passing of my father, who had cancer and was in a tertiary hospital, a health science centre, and then ultimately went to his apartment. This is all within a couple of months. Then from the apartment, where there was incredible discomfort, we were able to get him into Riverview Health Centre and a phenomenal palliative care program. I applaud those health care professionals for everything they did.

We all have the understanding and the experiences we could share, not only inside the House but with our constituents.

I want to give a final appeal and say that this special committee we are talking about can do the job. I know parliamentarians can respond in an apolitical fashion, and we would be able to make a difference and do what Canadians want us to do. Let us fill that gap, that vacuum. Let us do what the Supreme Court of Canada has challenged us to do, unanimously. All nine judges have come forward. We can do it. I know we can do it.

If we put our collective minds together, we can come up with a consensus, just as the province of Quebec was able to do. I believe the will would be here if in fact we could get the support necessary for this particular motion.

I am thankful for this opportunity to share a few thoughts.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I listened with great interest to my hon. colleague. I certainly believe that in the House we have the ability to work together on something so important.

I listened to the member read through the motion, which identifies how many people would sit and where they would sit and what they would do. I did not see the phrase “palliative care” anywhere in that motion. This motion is to deal with the fact, as it says, “...that the prohibition on physician-assisted dying violates Section 7 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms...”. That is the mandate being set up by the Liberal Party for this.

I heard my colleague talk about how we could work in an apolitical fashion: let us talk, let us make changes. He said we could amend the motion. He is not really speaking truth to power, is he? When attempts were made to work with this motion, to ensure we have a comprehensive view of end of life, the Liberals insisted that this motion was going to stay focused on assisted suicide. That is the problem, because we have to look at the full slate of issues with end-of-life health care. That is what is incumbent upon us. Harvey Max Chochinov, who is the distinguished professor of psychiatry at the University of Manitoba, has recently stated that under the situation we are faced with now we have the right to die but not the right to quality palliative care.

I would like to ask my hon. colleague why the Liberals have been standing up in the House all day saying we can talk about palliative care if people want to bring in palliative care. However, they cut it out of the motion so that it is only focused on assisted suicide, and we are not responding to the larger issue of end-of-life care that we need.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the comments.

The focus of the motion is on the Supreme Court of Canada decision. I would be absolutely shocked, as I am sure every member of this chamber would be, if palliative care were not incorporated into the discussions and presentations at every single level. I would be absolutely shocked if that were not the case.

The purpose of the motion is to establish the committee that would deal specifically with the Supreme Court of Canada decision. If the member can build that consensus, and if the Conservatives are prepared to say they will have the standing committee and tag on another component to it, I suspect we would be more than happy to oblige that. However, I do not know if the members actually had that discussion. If that is the only barrier from having the motion passed, I suspect we could even do something of that nature, in fact, if that were to occur.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I and others in this room are co-chairs of the Parliamentary Committee on Palliative and Compassionate Care, and we understand the absolute value of palliative care.

I come from a community in Guelph where we have one of the best hospices in Canada. The problem is that there is no consistent palliative care across Canada, and not everyone has access to palliative care. I frankly agree with the previous speaker that it is important that we address palliative care. The notions we speak of are not mutually exclusive.

This is a divisive issue. There are people who agree with the Supreme Court decision and people who disagree with the Supreme Court decision. However, physician-assisted death is now upon us as of February 6 of next year. We have to, as a Parliament, get on with implementing what we have been charged with by the Supreme Court.

My concern is that February 6 will be upon us quickly but there will be no law at all, nothing consistent across Canada, and we will have 13 different jurisdictions across Canada dealing with it in different and inconsistent ways, having some people go from one province or jurisdiction to another seeking a physician's assistance in death. I wonder if my colleague from Winnipeg North has the same concern and if that is one of the motives for encouraging this Parliament to get on with the discussion.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I know that my colleague was here when our leader spoke on the issue. I will quote what he said: “It now falls on us, as legislators, to act, and that means leading a broad and inclusive discussion with all Canadians”.

I believe that the leader of the Liberal Party has it right. We do have a responsibility as parliamentarians. It would be highly irresponsible if we did not do a thorough job on such an important issue. All of our constituents would understand the need for us to not only demonstrate interest but to show action, because if the Parliament of Canada fails to address this issue in a timely fashion, we will have a piecemeal approach across this country. I would suggest that no one wins in that situation.

We need to see leadership come from within the House of Commons to fill that vacuum and to address the very serious issue the Supreme Court of Canada made a unanimous decision on. I believe that is what we are here for.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Mr. Speaker, a lot of the objections on the government side with respect to this motion have to do with not having enough time. As the member for Guelph rightly said, there is a looming deadline, and that is February next year. We do not have that much time to do it.

The argument then becomes that we may have to go to the Supreme Court to ask for an extension. The parliamentary secretary suggested that. The member for Kildonan—St. Paul suggested that.

Is it the member's opinion that our position to seek an extension, if in fact that was appropriate, would be much more enhanced if Parliament had engaged, started the process, and actually started to hear witnesses?

I point to the chair of the finance committee. It is not unusual for the finance committee to hear 300 or 400 witnesses in the course of a three- or four-month hearing process on pre-budget consultations. It is doable. I would be interested in the member's opinion as to whether our position before the Supreme Court would actually be enhanced by the commencement of a process.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is a good point. If we collectively come to the conclusion that there is a need for an extension and looked at it from the perspective of having a consensus in the House of Commons, I suspect it would give a great deal more weight to it.

I would also make reference to having a special committee as opposed to any of our current standing committees. It is important to recognize that it is not just the Department of Justice or the Department of Health or the Department of Finance. There are a number of standing committees that might have some interest in the issue. The bottom line is that it is important to have a special committee of the House with the same powers a standing committee has. If we agree to that, we will be on the right track in terms of being able to deliver what Canadians really want to see, and that is some parliamentary leadership on this very important issue.

Time matters. If we do not address this in adequate time, tell us what the alternative is. If Conservatives do not support the motion, they should explain what the government is prepared to do to deal with this very important issue, which Canadians are obviously very much concerned about.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would ask my colleague to try to explain why our Conservative colleagues are so reluctant to vote for this motion. They said that there is no time, but the more we wait, the less time we will have. That is the reason to start now. They said that it is not enough to have a committee. That may be so, but they could just say that the committee is something else, whatever they have in mind. Is it not—

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

We are out of time. I will give the member for Winnipeg North an opportunity to address what he thinks the question might be.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my understanding is that the issue is the committee not having enough time. I would emphasize the fact that the Supreme Court has put a deadline on it.

We have 12 weeks. This parliamentary session has enough time to act on this motion and to provide a report, and all of Canada would benefit from the hard-working—

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Vancouver East.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Timmins—James Bay.

I am very pleased to participate in this debate today. I want to begin my remarks by reflecting on the importance of this issue and on it really being a non-partisan issue.

I want to thank the member for Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia for the bills he has presented in the House. I know that there are also two members in the Senate, from two different parties, a former Liberal and a Conservative, who have presented a bill. I think it reflects the deep feeling that individual members of Parliament have on the issue of medically assisted dying.

In fact, the member for Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia and I attended a forum in Calgary in August of last year. We did a forum together with Dying with Dignity Canada and other organizations. People were a bit taken aback that a Conservative member and an NDP member would be at the same meeting talking about the same issue. Yet I think it was a good discussion, and we shared very similar viewpoints on what needed to be done.

I also want to remember the incredible work that was done by a former member of Parliament, who is well known to us, Svend Robinson. He rose on many occasions in this House and spoke about medically assisted dying. In fact, he was one of the key people who worked with and helped Sue Rodriguez in her battle, both legal and medical. She had tremendous courage. Svend was someone who was by her side to support and assist her. He never gave up on that issue.

I also remember Francine Lalonde, who was a wonderful member of Parliament from the Bloc Québécois. She brought forward a private member's bill in the House on medically assisted dying. I voted for the bill. In fact, I voted twice for it, because she brought it back again. Ms. Lalonde has since passed away, but she was a tremendous advocate on this issue. We again thank her for her work.

Right there, members can see that this is a very non-partisan issue. I think it reflects the feelings on this issue in Canadian society.

I also want to pay tribute to my colleague from Timmins—James Bay for the hard work he has done on palliative care, because it is part of the debate in terms of ensuring that there is a continuum of care. To me, the issue of palliative care and medically assisted dying are not things that are mutually exclusive, where it is either/or. It is something that is part of a process and a choice people need to have. We need to have much better access to palliative care in this country.

Even with the passage of Motion No. 456 by the member for Timmins—James Bay and the debate that took place in this House, the fact is that we have made very little progress. I think there are some very serious questions as to why we have not seen the follow-through from the government, whose members actually voted for the motion.

I also want to point out the organizations in this country, such as Dying with Dignity Canada, and others. They have done incredible work, not just on the legal front but also in education and working with local communities and people who are interested in this issue.

I did a forum in Vancouver with Dying with Dignity Canada about six weeks ago. It was a very interesting meeting. There was a diversity of people who came to the meeting. We had presentations. This was before the Supreme Court of Canada decision. It was a serious discussion that reflected the seriousness with which people look at this issue. What really stood out for me was that people were very clear that this is an issue about consent and choice and that the state, and I think it is very well reflected in the Supreme Court decision, should not be in the position of making a decision for adults in terms of what they decide to do about the end of their lives, the care they have, or when they need to end their lives based on their unique and particular circumstances.

I passionately believe that members of Parliament can be opposed to medically assisted dying, but can still support the decision by the Supreme Court of Canada and the premise that this is about an individual's decision. That is not something that I or anyone else in this place should be able to pass judgement on.

I do believe that we have an incredible responsibility to follow up the decision by the Supreme Court, which was unanimous, to make sure that we do not drop the ball and we do not somehow push this somewhere to the back, because we consider it to be controversial, or for some other reason. This is an issue about here and now. This is about people now who are suffering and who have very compelling situations where they need to be able to make a decision about their own life and what happens. For that reason, I thank the Liberal members who brought the motion forward today.

I agree with the last person who intervened. If we do not start now, then when will we? I have heard arguments that there will not be enough time and that an election is forthcoming. We can always come up with 1,001 reasons why this is not the appropriate time or why we should not begin our work now. I can think of one compelling reason why we should start now, which is that for some people time is running out. Unless we do our job, we are completely abdicating the responsibility that has been given to us by the Supreme Court of Canada.

Like my colleague from Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia, I wish that we were not following on the heels of the Supreme Court of Canada. I wish that we, as Parliament, had been able to arrive at this in our own way and through our own process, as happened in Quebec. The process there was really quite incredible. They went through the proper consultations and eventually came forward with their legislation.

There is a vacuum now. Unless we begin today or next week, we are letting down an awful lot of people. We are copping out, and we cannot afford to cop out on this issue.

Maybe this special committee is not perfect. Maybe someone thinks that it should be slightly different. I certainly agree with my colleague from Timmins—James Bay that we wish it included the issue of palliative care in a more formal way. Should this motion pass, we will do our best to ensure that these issues are also covered.

However, the fact is that this is the motion before us today and that we will be voting on today. I cannot see any reason why we would not support it, because it is about a process. It is about us as parliamentarians doing our job to uphold this very historic landmark decision made by the Supreme Court of Canada.

In the name of Sue Rodriguez and all the people who have suffered and brought forward the current legal action and sacrificed so much, I really feel that we are compelled to take action here. It will be very disappointing if we do not meet that goal and if we do not meet that responsibility and we somehow just slough it off and say there is this excuse and that excuse. There are no more excuses.

This is a day for us to recognize what we are here to do as members of Parliament for our constituents. It is a day for us to get above partisan politics. In that way, I find the decision by the Supreme Court of Canada very affirming. It affirms what we need to do. Let us make sure that we take it up and affirm our responsibility to work with each other and set up a process to ensure that this consultation does take place, so that within a year, we can do the job that has been set out for us.

[Steven Fletcher, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for Vancouver East for her comments. I thank her for bringing up that forum that we did together. I do recall it. It was actually in July. I remember it because it was during Stampede week and there was a glorious blue sky that evening. It was hot, and the venue was in an obscure building with no air conditioning and only one fan. There was little notice for the forum, yet we had a fantastic turnout. Even some media turned out.

I would like to give the member for Vancouver East the opportunity to relay to the House some of the comments and feelings of the people who attended that day.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad that the member's memory is better than mine. I now remember that it was a hot day and that it was during the Calgary Stampede. What I remember most about that meeting is that people were so surprised that we were there, that a member from the government side and a member from the official opposition could be at the same meeting and have a respectful discussion. It spoke clearly to me as to how people in this country are so cynical about politics. They see us in question period and that is the view they have of us and they do not know that there are many instances where MPs do work together.

The motion by my colleague from Timmins—James Bay on palliative care is another very fine example of how the House can come together on the wording and approve a motion on the importance of palliative care and the need for a federal strategy.

Therefore, I would like to see us go further, to take that up and say that we are willing to work together on this issue and are willing to make sure that there is a genuine, meaningful, democratic consultation that will lead to the necessary legislative framework.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank colleagues for what I regard as a largely respectful debate throughout the day and minimal partisanship. I want to address the one specific issue that seems to be of most concern, because once people work through the issues around physician-assisted suicide, it comes down to giving an appropriate, respectful length of time to what should be the legislative response. Therefore, I would be interested in the hon. member's views with respect to the compressed 12-month timeline that the Supreme Court has given in deference to Parliament, whether she has any thoughts as to whether that is sufficient and, if it is sufficient, if this is the appropriate motion to get it going.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know all of the reasons that the Supreme Court of Canada justices laid down one year. I could possibly speculate that they felt this was such a compelling issue affecting the dignity of people, their right to life, and their own decision-making process that they really wanted to make sure that Parliament did not just wander off and do nothing, or do whatever over whatever period of time. Therefore, the specific timeframe of a year, which I do not think is too short, is very important because it is now moving us to do something. It has been somewhat disconcerting that we have not seen anything proactive from the government on what it wants to do. If it has ideas, then let it bring them forward. Right now we have this motion that lays out a particular cause.

I would point out that if a special committee gets going relatively quickly, there is nothing to prevent it from meeting during the summer. We have committees that meet throughout the summer all the time. Therefore, from a logistical point of view, this is very doable. If we do not start now, then we are just delaying it further.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as always it is a great honour to rise in the House and represent the people of Timmins—James Bay. I am honoured to rise following my colleague from Vancouver East who has done so much work on health care and end-of-life issues.

I have been meeting across the country with people who are very concerned about the need for a national palliative care strategy. I just met with medical doctors, nurses, and people involved in the palliative care movement in Toronto, and there is a real deep concern following the Supreme Court decision and what it will mean for families and medical practitioners. These are very deep issues that we need to deal with. I think the concern is about a vacuum, a lack of leadership by Parliament to define these issues, that will very much put the medical community in a compromised position that it does not want to be in. Therefore, it is incumbent upon us to address this.

First, I would like to thank the province of Quebec for its fair and balanced consultation process.

The government of the day held a fair consultation process with the various interested parties, and it led to a plan regarding the standards for end-of-life care everywhere in the province and a definition of the process surrounding the issue of euthanasia.

Therefore, it is possible to find a solution to this issue, and Quebec is a model.

What concerns me is that the government knew that the Carter decision was coming. The people in the end-of-life care movement knew that something was happening. I heard all the time, “What is the government going to do?”

In court, one has to mitigate one's damages. One has to be able to show the court that action is being taken. If one does not take action, the court will.

What has come out of the unanimous Carter decision is that the court, rather than defining the issue, has opened it up in a way that will probably make it much broader, probably broader than Quebec has gone, and probably much broader than Parliament would have gone. If we do not act in response, the courts will be expected to intervene again. There will be other challenges and we as a society will be put in a position of dealing with it, and who knows where we will end up in the process. Therefore, it is incumbent upon us to deal with this.

The frustration is also that Parliament had a chance to act. We established in the House a commitment to a national palliative care and end-of-life strategy to work in consultation with the provinces and territories, recognizing their jurisdictions, and to work with the medical community, because there are models of good, quality palliative care out there. When Canadians know what is available, many of these fears about end of life become very different. However, the reality is that across the country there is a patchwork of services. Seventy per cent of Canadians do not have access to quality palliative care. Therefore, the other issue, the issue of assisted suicide and euthanasia, draws a lot of attention in the media.

My concern about my Conservative colleagues is that if they do not act within this year, this issue could become much broader and much more difficult for parliamentarians to respond to. We have an opportunity.

I listened to the hon. members from the Liberal Party. I agree with them: Parliament can act and should act. We have a year. We knew this was coming. We can do this. My concern with the Liberal motion is that it is focused strictly on the Supreme Court ruling and not on the larger end-of-life issues that have to be part of the package.

Harvey Max Chochinov just wrote an excellent op-ed on this. He is an expert on palliative care. He is concerned that they will define through this, through Parliament, or through the courts the right to die but not the right to have access to quality palliative care. It would be a very unjust situation if we simply respond to the court ruling, which might affect 0.2% of the population. I am not diminishing those people, but 70% of the population does not have access to quality end-of-life care.

We have an opportunity right now. The Supreme Court has ruled that this has to be dealt with.

Let us put aside the usual bickering that goes on. We have a period where we can sit down, look at how to do this in a way that is just, that works with the provinces, and realizes that with the vast majority of our population aging, the issue of palliative, home care and hospice care is vitally important.

From a jurisdictional issue and from a planning issue, it is very important as 1% of Canadians use 30% of the health care budget. Many of those in that 1% are people in their final months of life. We are spending enormous amounts of money on end-of-life care, but it is being delivered in a patchwork of services. The stress on patients is enormous, the stress on families can be traumatic and there is the stress on the medical system.

If we talk to people involved in quality palliative care, they will say that once a person is identified in a palliative program, there are no more midnight trips to the emergency ward with a loved one, trying to find a bed, not knowing what to do. It is an incredible stress on families. We have seen really good models in Brantford, Sudbury and Saskatoon. Those models can be replicated in other parts of the country.

I am very concerned that we are standing between a political vacuum on one hand and a committee motion on the other. Again, I commend my colleagues for bringing it forward, but if the motion does not address the issue of palliative care, then I have a problem. I have a problem saying that we are simply going to address the Supreme Court decision and we are walking away on the rest of it. That is problematic for Canadian society.

Some of my colleagues from other parties have said that Canadians are out on this issue. They expect us to show leadership on it. They expect us to show a level of maturity in recognizing that as parliamentarians we are entrusted with certain things. If we do not live up to that standard, the Supreme Court will act for us. I believe the Supreme Court has a fundamental role to play.

The Supreme Court has told Parliament to get its act together, to do it within the course of this year or it will be devolved either to the provinces or we will see further court challenges. Once the courts recognize that Parliament is not willing to act, I think they will start to interpret this ruling in a much broader fashion. I am not sure that is where the Canadian public wants us to go with this.

We have an opportunity right now, and it is an important opportunity, on the issue of end-of-life care. We stood in the House just five months ago, talked about palliative care and we committed to it. Since then, there has been zero action from the federal government. How does that look when the Supreme Court sees that the federal government has done nothing on this?

We have an opportunity. The federal government is mandated by Parliament to start that process with the provinces and territories to establish quality palliative care. The federal government also has a massive role to play in the delivery of health care in first nation communities, which have very little access to quality palliative care, in the military with our veterans, and in the prisons.

The federal government also has a national role to play in health care, to say that we can establish funding that the provinces can access for training. One of the big concerns that has been raised in the palliative care community is that if this moves within a year, the decisions on life and death will be handed over general practitioners who do not have the expertise in palliative and end-of-life issues. We will have to deal with very complex issues in a vacuum, without the support.

The federal government could work with the provinces and establish those norms, those standards and establish training so we could do this in a just and fair way. We could do this in a way that all Canadians would recognize, regardless of their beliefs on this issue. We all share very complicated beliefs. The quality of the lives of citizens, regardless of their station in life and as they face their final few months, has to be considered, a total value that we as Canadians and parliamentarians are willing to embrace.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for his work on bringing the issue of palliative care in front of Parliament.

I had the privilege of being part of an all-party committee that discussed and studied palliative care for many months. We wrote a report called “Not to be Forgotten: Care of Vulnerable Canadians”. We toured a number of facilities in Canada and saw the great work that many of these heroes who worked in palliative care did. I want to commend them for that great work.

One of the aspects that I think is missing in the subject matter today is this five-month period of up to the end of July to come up with some credible solutions. My feeling is that we need more time to do that kind of work. Maybe we could have done it sooner. We could all take the blame for that.

However, we are here now. My colleague used the phrase many times during his speech “we have an opportunity now”. I could not agree more, but to take advantage of that opportunity, I feel we need more than five months to do that. Would my colleague agree that it would be better for us to take more time, study it more deeply, come up with some possible solutions, even to the palliative care patchwork that currently exists in Canada?