House of Commons Hansard #232 of the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was victims.

Topics

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

(Motion agreed to)

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to this bill. The Liberal Party will be voting in favour of it. We have some problems with it, which I will describe, but on balance, we believe that the positive features of the bill are more important than the negative ones and that is why we will support it.

Our biggest problem is with the short title, “zero tolerance for barbaric cultural practices act”. We moved an amendment to remove the word “cultural” and the government refused. The contents of the bill are not affected by the title, so this is not sufficient for us to vote against the contents, but we are strongly of the view that the word “cultural” is inappropriate.

Part of the reason is that if we look at the commission of such acts of polygamy, forced marriage, things that we all oppose, these are not limited to a single culture. There is the Christian group out in British Columbia in the news, the Jewish group in Quebec, and Muslim groups as well. It is all over the map. It is also of different cultures. When one inserts the word “cultural” into the bill, it creates unnecessary offence felt by certain communities.

The essence of our argument is that the use of the word “cultural” does not do anything at all to affect the content of the bill. It is not really doing anything good, but it is certainly doing something bad as it is causing unnecessary offence to communities that, rightly or wrongly, feel that the government is singling them out. For that reason, there is something to be gained and nothing to be lost by removing that word.

I have heard the minister on more than one occasion give some convoluted defence of the idea of why “cultural” should be in there. I have never understood his argument and I still do not. My argument is a very simple one. If the word does not do any good, but it does harm in offending communities, then it should be removed.

It is particularly the Muslim community that has taken offence to this. People in the Muslim community feel that they are being targeted. I think it is fair to say as a serious understatement that the government has not exactly reached out to the Muslim community in a positive way, so it is perhaps not surprising that they feel offended.

I remember that within days of 9/11, then prime minister Jean Chrétien went to a mosque to underline his support and the government's support for the Muslim community. Again, to put it very mildly, the leaders of the Conservative government have done nothing remotely resembling that, and instead, they include this word which is offensive to a major Canadian community. The fact that they are unwilling to remove that word simply adds to a long list of things that they have already done which have proved offensive to that particular community.

For all of those reasons, we are strongly opposed to the inclusion of the word “cultural”, but we do think the contents of the bill are such as to deserve support notwithstanding its bad short title. I will mention briefly what the positive features are.

First, the law now prescribes a minimum age for marriage. We think it is positive and good to have a minimum age for marriage across the country. That is a significant contribution of this bill, which goes beyond the distastefulness of the title. That is the first reason we support the bill.

The second thing that we like about this bill is that it would criminalize participation in forced marriages. I think everyone in the chamber is opposed to forced marriages, so it is good that we would make it a criminal offence to participate in such a marriage. That is another thing that the bill would do which we in the Liberal Party support.

It has been argued by the NDP and others that there should be an exemption for young people in this provision of criminalizing participation in forced marriages. My answer to that is that our justice system is flexible. Prosecutors have a lot of flexibility in whether they prosecute somebody or they do not.

There are some cases where, for example, if a 17-year-old brother has participated actively in the forced marriage of his younger sister, it might be appropriate for that person to be charged. Whereas in many cases, the individual young people will be innocent bystanders, not knowing what is going on or for whatever reason do not deserve to be prosecuted.

Our system is flexible enough. The prosecutors have been around for a while. They would not want to go after people in a way that was inappropriate. Preserving some flexibility in the administration of justice may be a positive thing to do.

We will therefore vote in favour of this bill because we agree with some of its measures, such as establishing a minimum age of marriage and criminalizing participation in a forced marriage. For those reasons, despite the bill's title, which we do not like, we will support this bill.

There are a couple of other areas where we are less than totally satisfied with the bill. One of those is the provisions regarding inadmissibility for those practising polygamy. It might be helpful if we had a definition of what polygamy is, because I know there are different definitions. When one gives immigration officers substantial power to bar someone from entering Canada, or even conceivably to expel somebody from Canada, it is a good idea to have a precise definition of the action for which that person will be barred or expelled.

I understand this is an issue of some debate in the legal community. I do not think there is a general consensus on what the definition ought to be. Therefore, it is a problem.

I would think that if we are to give immigration officers significant powers to remove people or bar people from entering our country, it would be a good idea to define more clearly what the offence is for which they can take these actions.

Finally, there was some confusion on the definition of the defence of provocation. I seem to recall the minister did not really know what it was in committee and had to be corrected by his officials. There is room for improvement in that area.

I do have objections to the bill and positive points about the bill, but primarily for the two reasons I gave, the definition of age of marriage and the criminalization of participation in forced marriages, the Liberal Party will vote in favour of the bill.

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

11:30 a.m.

Richmond Hill Ontario

Conservative

Costas Menegakis ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for his and his party's support for the legislation.

Once again, the member made reference to the exception that he and his party were taking to the use of the word “cultural”. The fact is that in some families, and I need to point that it is not specific to one culture because it is many cultures that this can happen in, it is a tradition to force marriage on their children.

I know of one family in one particular community, and this was 25 years ago, that took its teenage daughters out of high school because it had found husbands for the daughters. They were two years apart. This took place over a two-year period. The girls were left with no high school education and were not happy with the fact that their parents were doing this. It was one of those stigma situations. They did not want to go against their parents or their family.

These kinds of practices that are rooted in culture in some families are not conducive with Canadian values. Could the member perhaps rethink the way he is interpreting the word “cultural” in the title of the bill?

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his reasonably positive comments at the start, but he has not really addressed my point at all. He has just acknowledged that there are all sorts of different, what he calls cultures, or we could call them communities, groups or whatever word we want to use, in Canada that do these practices.

To give one example is fine, but we all agree that this is a bad practice, so that is not at all the point. However, he has not given any reason for using the word “cultural”. He just said, “All people, all cultures, all communities do it”. Therefore, why put the word “cultural” in the bill when it offends a particular community and does nothing to achieve the objectives of the bill. He has not addressed my question at all, so we remain opposed to the title.

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his remarks.

I believe my colleague who spoke before him expressed the scope of the issue and all the finesse required to address these issues. Concern about the protection of these women's rights is shared by both sides of this House.

My colleague pointed out that the member opposite tried to evade a question. I would like to say that it appears as though the government has decided to make this bill law without listening to anyone. No amendments were considered and no comments by witnesses were heard or, I should say, listened to because there were no changes or amendments.

If the section on polygamy is such a concern for people, how does he explain the fact that his party did not present any amendments on this matter, which is nearly as startling as the title?

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his question.

We did propose amendments and it is true that the government did not accept any amendments. The situation is even worse than he suggested. The government not only failed to accept any amendments and listen to witnesses, but it also excluded from its report any evidence presented by the witnesses that it did not like.

As the leader of the Liberal Party said earlier today, Ottawa is broken, and the problem the member has raised about the committee system that does not work is a good example.

I agree with him on that. However, all the bills the Conservatives have introduced pose the same problem, and all we can do is vote for or against them, each time. If we vote against a bill simply because the committee system does not work, that would mean automatically voting against every bill.

Thus we must consider the details of the bill. In this case, as I explained, we will be voting in favour.

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Costas Menegakis Conservative Richmond Hill, ON

Mr. Speaker, notwithstanding the nonsense in the question from the member of the NDP, this is what we did at committee. The member would do well to listen and perhaps take note so he does not make similar mistakes again in the future.

We listened to victims. Victim after victim who came before the committee told us of the damaging and lasting effects on their lives of having been forced into a marriage, into a life of abuse, victims who had the courage to stand up and make a difference in their lives, some after decades of having been subjected to nothing but abuse. They had the courage to get out of that and to come and speak in favour of the legislation and of the key components of it, including the title of the legislation. Those are the people to whom we listened.

As we know, in committees the opposition likes to parade in its set of witnesses, and we heard nothing new. Certainly we did not hear anything from the members of the NDP on the committee and we heard nothing of the impact on victims themselves.

The member of the Liberal Party spoke about something his leader announced today was broken. Certainly the Liberal Party knows a lot about being broken. Without being too sarcastic about their situation, the Liberals have to try to change the channel somehow because Canadians have seen right through that party and their rhetoric.

However, I would like to hear from the hon. member what impact the victims who spoke at the committee had on him personally.

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON

Mr. Speaker, like the member opposite, I am not necessarily a huge fan of the NDP, but I still object to his patronizing tone in referring to the question from the NDP. I thought it was a perfectly reasonable question.

What is broken is not the NDP's question but the committee system under the government, of which the Conservatives should be ashamed.

I was in Parliament when we had committees under Liberal governments, and a lot of the members on committees who objected most to government policies were members of the government party. Now we have a system of trained seals where the parliamentary secretary tells everybody what to do, and his little assistant tells him what to do. There is no independent voice on the committee to the point where the Conservatives wipe out testimony they do not like, and none of the members have any independent voice whatsoever.

This is one of the things my leader is addressing. We will, for example, make parliamentary secretaries ineligible to sit on committees. Therefore, that gentleman not only would not be there to boss everybody around, and himself be bossed around by a guy or girl from the PMO, but he would not even be there.

The way committees are supposed to work is that they are to be committees of Parliament, and not run by the executive branch of government.

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

11:40 a.m.

Richmond Hill Ontario

Conservative

Costas Menegakis ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration

Mr. Speaker, thank you once again for permitting me to take part in this important debate on Bill S-7, the zero tolerance for barbaric cultural practices act.

The most recent Speech from the Throne referenced the millions of women and girls worldwide who continue to suffer from abuse and violence, including forced and early marriage, polygamy, and so-called honour-based violence. Since the throne speech, we have repeatedly affirmed the government's commitment to ensuring that barbaric cultural practices do not take place on Canadian soil.

Bill S-7 would amend the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, the Civil Marriage Act, and the Criminal Code to provide more protection and support for vulnerable individuals, primarily women and children. Its measures would render permanent and temporary residents inadmissible if they practise polygamy in Canada. It would strengthen Canadian marriage laws by establishing a new national minimum age for marriage of 16 and by codifying the existing legal requirements for free and enlightened consent for marriage and for ending an existing marriage prior to entering another one. It would criminalize certain conduct related to underage and forced marriage ceremonies, including the act of removing a child from Canada for the purpose of such marriages. It would help protect potential victims of underage or forced marriages by creating a new specific court-ordered peace bond where there are grounds to fear that someone would commit an offence in this area. It would ensure that the defence of provocation would not apply to so-called honour killings and many spousal homicides.

Together, these measures would help immigrant women and girls exercise their own free will and seek the opportunities and success in Canada they deserve.

It is essential to our democracy and our society that all women and girls be allowed to participate to the fullest extent. To help them do so, our government wants to ensure that immigrant women and girls are protected and are no longer subjected to abuse and violence. The bill sets out a multi-pronged approach to do just that.

Women who seek a better life for themselves and their families in Canada should never be subject to constant fear and the threat of violence or death. They need to feel safe, welcome, and protected.

The fact is that barbaric cultural practices are occurring on Canadian soil, with the potential for severe and sometimes fatal consequences for the victims of these very violent acts.

In the words of Salma Siddiqui, the president of the Coalition of Progressive Canadian Muslim Organizations, during a recent appearance before the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration:

Who in their right mind can support coercion and honour killings? Bill S-7 does contain a number of sensible elements that all Canadians should embrace. The explicit outlawing of forced marriages and bringing precision to the general provincial practice that 16 is a minimum age for marriage is very reasonable. The provisions that will make it illegal to transport a child under 16 abroad for the purpose of marriage will certainly go a long way in preventing the trafficking of helpless young women.

In a November op-ed, in the National Post, this is what Aruna Papp stated:

Over the last 30 years, I have founded agencies in Toronto that assist immigrant women; I have met hundreds of women who are victims of forced marriages and domestic violence. The government's “Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices Act” recognizes the plight of these women. In presenting this bill, the government of Canada has said, in effect, “As a Canadian citizen, you, too, deserve to live a life free of violence and coercion”. For this I am grateful.

That is exactly what the bill would do. It would acknowledge and address the plight of women facing abuse and violence in the very communities in which we live. It would create an environment in which they can feel safe to seek help and protection and where they can thrive, making their own choices for their futures. As Ms. Papp expressed so well, all Canadians deserve to live a life free of violence and coercion.

As well, we know that immigrant and newcomer women and girls face additional barriers in protecting themselves and in seeking assistance compared to women born in Canada. The Government of Canada is committed to helping break down these additional barriers. For example, these newcomers may not be familiar with our laws, or they may not know that certain harmful practices are illegal, inappropriate, or indeed a form of violence. These practices also have a negative and lasting impact on the families and on society in general. We all suffer as long as we allow these practices to continue unchecked.

Our government is working on a number of ways, with concrete steps, to support these women in every way we can. Both the Canada citizenship study guide “Discover Canada” and the “Welcome to Canada” orientation guide were recently updated to reflect the fact that Canada's openness and generosity do not extend to harmful practices such as forced marriage or other forms of gender-based family violence.

Since its introduction, the guide has proven to be popular not only with newcomers to Canada but indeed with many Canadians interested in learning about the rights and responsibilities that come with being a citizen of our great country. One of the points made explicit to all readers of “Discover Canada” is that men and women are equal under Canadian law. The guide states:

Canada’s openness and generosity do not extend to barbaric cultural practices that tolerate spousal abuse, “honour killings,” female genital mutilation, forced marriage or other gender-based violence

Who can argue with that? Certainly no reasonably minded Canadian living in this wonderful multicultural mosaic of tolerance, acceptance, love, and respect for one another would argue with that comment. While the equality of men and women under the law is a fundamental Canadian value, barbaric cultural practices still exist as a reality for many Canadian women and girls.

Another measure we have taken is Status of Women Canada's investment of $2.8 million for community-based projects that address harmful cultural practices, such as so-called honour-based violence and forced marriage. Further, since 2009, Justice Canada has held six sector-specific workshops on forced marriage and so-called honour-based violence with police, crowns, victims services, child protection officials, and shelter workers to assist in their front-line capacity building. As well, Justice Canada and Status of Women Canada co-chair an interdepartmental working group on early and forced marriage, so-called honour-based violence, and female genital mutilation.

Our government also created regulations that make it much harder for people convicted of crimes that result in bodily harm against members of their family, or other particularly violent offences, to sponsor any family class member to come to Canada. Family violence is not tolerated in Canada under any circumstances, and individuals who do not respect Canadian law and commit serious crimes, regardless of the victim, should not benefit from the privilege of sponsorship. The regulatory changes now in force fixed a pre-existing gap and helped in the protection of sponsored individuals from family violence.

Our government has also brought in new measures in recent years to deter foreign nationals from entering into marriages of convenience to gain permanent resident status in Canada. This includes two-year conditional permanent resident status for certain sponsored spouses. However, because of concerns that conditional status could increase the vulnerability of sponsored spouses who are in abusive relationships, who may be reluctant to seek help out of fear that it will negatively impact their status in Canada, the government put in an exception to this measure in instances where there is evidence of any abuse of a physical, sexual, psychological, or financial nature. This exception would include those who are victims of forced marriage. The exception also applies to situations where there is neglect, such as a failure to provide the necessities of life. This protects Canadians from marriages of convenience while ensuring that women are never put in unsafe situations because of regulations laid out in their own immigration system.

We have also put in place training and better resources to help front-line officers in processing requests for exceptions based on abuse or neglect and in handling sensitive information related to abusive situations.

Citizenship and Immigration Canada's settlement program provides funding to a variety of organizations offering programs and services that respond to the specific needs of permanent residents, including immigrant women and their families, who may find themselves in vulnerable situations. These settlement services are flexible and are designed to meet the diverse needs of newcomers, including women, by providing them with a range of practical supports, such as language training and child care, to help them integrate successfully in Canada.

While overseas, newcomers can access programs that help them understand their rights and responsibilities in Canada and that provide detailed labour market information so they can make informed decisions prior to their arrival.

Once in Canada, women also have access to a range of employment-related supports to help them build their skills to enter the workforce and/or to advance their careers. These are resources and supports that are critical in helping them reach their full potential in Canada.

While the government has done much so far, we know that even more needs to be done to protect these women in our immigration system. That is why it is critical that the measures in Bill S-7 are enacted expeditiously.

Over the past year, government officials, including the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration and I, met with victims and advocates across the country to get insight into how to stop violence and abuse from occurring in our communities.

Before Bill S-7 was introduced, the minister spent a considerable amount of time meeting with representatives of organizations that provide services to immigrant women and with victims of abuse at a number of round table discussions across our great nation. These important discussions focused on domestic violence, polygamy, forced marriage, the immigration process, and how we can strengthen the protection of vulnerable women and girls. Through these discussions, the government learned many ways it can help address the problems stemming from barbaric cultural practices.

These discussions led to the introduction of Bill S-7, which we are debating today. If passed, its measures would strengthen our laws to protect Canadians and newcomers to Canada from barbaric cultural practices. The bill sends a clear message to anyone coming to Canada that such practices are unacceptable. Canada will promote the equality of men and women and will afford them equal protection and opportunity.

In the words of Tahir Gora, director general of the Canadian Thinkers' Forum:

Critics criticized the name of the bill, calling it a pretty loaded one.

However, our group believes in calling a spade a spade. Violence against women is an absolutely barbaric act. It must be addressed strongly. Forced marriages, polygamy, and honour killings happen every day around the globe under the guise of cultural practices. Should those cultural practices not be condemned? Calling a spade a spade should not be a political issue in a country like Canada where human rights guarantee equal rights to men and women.

Bill S-7 says, in no uncertain terms, to those in this country and those who wish to come here that we will not tolerate cultural traditions in Canada that deprive individuals of their human rights. Through the bill, we are standing up for immigrant women and girls who have come to Canada for a better life and are reinforcing Canada's values of human rights, democracy, justice, and the rule of law.

In Canada, all individuals, all women and girls, should be able to live a life free from intimidation, abuse, and violence. There is absolutely no circumstance that justifies abuse and violence against women and children.

The bill makes clear to anyone who may doubt how seriously Canada takes this issue that Canadians do not, under any circumstance, accept or allow the propagation, support, or enactment of barbaric cultural practices on Canadian soil.

As legislators, we must stand up for all victims of violence and abuse and take necessary action to prevent these practices from happening on Canadian soil. By ensuring the passage into law of the zero tolerance for barbaric cultural practices act, we will be fulfilling this obligation. I strongly encourage all my hon. colleagues on all sides of the House to join me in enthusiastically supporting Bill S-7.

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

11:55 a.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Chambly—Borduas, QC

Mr. Speaker, the member gets up on a white horse and tells us we are opposed to women’s rights and opposed to this or opposed to that. The government’s argument is a bit simplistic.

The fact that we have often heard the minister talk about honour crimes and murders and all the rest is a fine example of this. What does the member think about the fact that this is already illegal? In addition, the courts have very recently held that the fact that an offence is an honour crime is not a valid defence under the Criminal Code, and that it is a cultural practice. The government wants to scare us with these headline cases, for example. Does it not realize that in some of these cases, the people involved have been convicted and are in prison? Is it not being simplistic, given that most of these things are already illegal?

Also, in the case of acts that are not already illegal, such as polygamy, does he not agree with my colleague from Pierrefonds—Dollard that we sometimes have to consider the issues more thoroughly to avoid penalizing these women even more?

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

Noon

Conservative

Costas Menegakis Conservative Richmond Hill, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that the member have a very good second read of the legislation, because what it seeks to do is hold to account those who would knowingly participate in activities that are abusive of women and girls in Canada under the guise of acceptance because of a family tradition or cultural practice. These are barbaric cultural practices.

I will give a clear example. We could very conceivably have a case of a Canadian-born young girl who is taken back to the home country of her parents for a summer vacation, only to find out when she arrives there that a wedding has been pre-arranged for her and that in some cases she is actually not to return to Canada but must live there.

These practices happen. This particular legislation would hold to account those people who knowingly participate in such activities.

Of course there is legislation in place today for any kind of killing, including honour killings, but it is very important that with this legislation we give a very strong message to the victims that they are empowered to speak out and speak up and seek help and support when they find themselves in these very difficult situations, which so many times are imposed on them by family members or through family traditions.

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

Noon

Conservative

Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for his very informed speech.

This spring I had the privilege of travelling to Malawi and Zambia and observing some of the projects our government is funding there in relation to maternal and newborn child health initiatives as well as the issue of early and forced marriage.

We were able to visit with a young lady who had received help to escape from an early forced marriage. We were able to hear her story and hear some of the devastatingly negative impacts that the marriage had on her. We saw funds being used by the YWCA in Zambia to address an issue that the Zambian government wants to address, and it is actually welcoming the help that we can give in that regard.

Early and forced marriage is an issue that we might not be that familiar with here in Canada, because it is often hidden. I wonder if my colleague could highlight some examples and explain the importance of addressing that issue with this legislation.

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

Noon

Conservative

Costas Menegakis Conservative Richmond Hill, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the hon. member for that question. I also want to thank him for all of the hard work that he has done over the years. He is certainly recognized as a leader in his community and in our party on this side of the House, if not throughout the entire House, for his dedication and support on issues that bring families comfort not only here in Canada but around the world.

Hearing the story that he heard when he was overseas is yet another example of the importance of legislation such as this. One of the things that I have been saying this morning is how important this legislation is for victims. When we sit on committee, our studies generally do not evoke the kind of emotion that a study like this one does. We can appreciate very well the importance of this legislation to those who have been victims of honour-based violence in their own families.

I referred earlier to a lady who had to have her jaw reconstructed. After many years in a very abusive marriage, she was empowered to speak out, and there she was, sitting in front of a parliamentary committee in the Parliament of Canada, relating in a very passionate way her support for the bill and the importance of it, because it would give a voice to the victims.

As a government, we have a responsibility to protect Canadians and all of those who come to our beautiful country.

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Rosane Doré Lefebvre NDP Alfred-Pellan, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague from the other side of the House for his speech. I think it is important to note that the bill the House is considering today comes to us from the Senate. It has a number of flaws and problems that we have pointed out.

I want to note that my colleague from Pierrefonds—Dollard is our immigration critic. She has worked very hard on this bill. The numerous experts who appeared at committee identified the very serious flaws in this bill. Unfortunately, once again, as is so often the case with the Conservatives, they are playing politics with an issue as important as the one before us today.

My question to my colleague is this. Why did they not listen to the numerous experts who appeared at committee and said there were flaws in this bill? On this side of the House, we do agree with the principle of the bill, but it has fundamental flaws. Why did they not listen to the experts who appeared at committee? Why did they not amend this bill to make it a piece of legislation that would be acceptable to everyone?

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

12:05 p.m.

Conservative

Costas Menegakis Conservative Richmond Hill, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for the question because it allows me an opportunity to point out the experts that we did listen to. We have a definition of “experts” on this side of the House that is different from the NDP's definition. For us, the experts are the people who have lived this problem. They are the victims themselves.

Here is what I would say to the member. Perhaps she could take some notes.

Aruna Papp was a victim. This is what she said on May 7:

I commend the government for its leadership in taking a stand on a very difficult issue and for defending the human rights of vulnerable women who are unable to speak for themselves. I'm thrilled to support this bill. In many ways, it is a result of my work with new immigrants and a response to the voices unheard in the past.

There is an expert.

Here is another expert. Raheel Raza, from Muslims Facing Tomorrow, said:

I am very glad that our government is taking such a keen interest in this. There are thousands of young women and children out there who would otherwise not be protected.

Richard Kurland is another expert. He is a lawyer working with immigrants every single day in Vancouver. He has appeared many times before our committee on a variety of issues. This is what Mr. Kurland had to say:

It's the right thing at the right time. It addresses directly a practical problem, so I come back to a more global view. Why aren't other countries adopting this? Canada's the model. I think you've nailed it, quite frankly, squarely on the head, or to put it differently, yes, it's the right legislative effort, which will take away a possible defence from individuals who ought to be incarcerated for a substantial period of time for their act.

These are the experts. I wish that the member opposite and her colleagues would listen to the real experts on this issue.

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Chambly—Borduas.

I truly regret that the time for this debate has been limited by the current government. This Parliament has been stifled in its ability to enter into full debate on issues crucial to the well-being of Canadians, people who depend on conscientious, considered legislation from their government. In fact, the government has limited debate 100 times in an effort to push through an agenda that has nothing to do with democracy and everything to do with heavy-handed agendas that quite deliberately ignore the advice of any expert counsel who do not share the government's ideology.

This bill is part of the Conservative government's pattern of introducing politicized measures that can actually cause harm. At the very least, we in the NDP caucus are very concerned about the unintended consequences of Bill S-7, and we are certainly not alone in our opposition to those consequences.

I want to be very clear that we do not support forced or underage marriages. However, we are convinced that this bill does not constitute an appropriate response to the significant problem of gender-based violence by treating it as a cultural problem. In fact, Bill S-7 could very well aggravate existing problems.

We need to be concerned about violence against all people, but most certainly against all women. That said, I want to emphasize some of the testimony heard in the citizenship and immigration committee.

According to the Canadian Women's Foundation, half of all women in Canada have experienced at least one incident of physical or sexual violence by age 16, and 67% of Canadians say they personally know at least one woman who has been sexually or physically assaulted.

A woman in Canada is killed by her intimate partner every six days on average.

On any given day in Canada, more than 3,300 women, along with 3,000 children, are forced to sleep in an emergency shelter to escape domestic violence.

In a 2009 national survey, Canadian women reported 460,000 incidents of sexual assault in one year alone. Only about 10% of all sexual assaults are reported to police.

When it comes to sexual assault, women are frequently not believed. They are blamed for being assaulted or subjected to callous or insensitive treatment when police fail to take evidence, when friends fail to believe them, or when their cases are arbitrarily dropped.

More than one in ten Canadian women say they have been stalked by someone in a way that made them fear for their lives.

In short, violence affects all women in Canada, whether they were born here or elsewhere. Women victims of domestic violence are citizens, immigrants, and refugees. Some have been sponsored to Canada, while others have sponsored their own spouses. Regardless of status or religion, no woman should be subjected to gender-based violence, including the practices of forced or underage marriage.

As I indicated previously, this bill may also have serious and unintended consequences, including criminalization of the victims of polygamy, criminalization and deportation of children, and separation of families.

Instead of presenting a sensationalized bill that does not get to the root of the problem, the minister should commit to widespread and meaningful consultations with community groups and experts so that the real issue of gender-based violence is addressed in a meaningful and effective manner. The Conservatives conducted a sham of a consultation.

The government must also increase investments to organizations that provide such services as safe and affordable housing, counselling, and assistance in navigating the very complicated and often traumatizing family, criminal, and immigration legal systems. Clearly this approach is of very little interest to the government, which has no interest in actively promoting the kinds of programs and policies that would truly support women and their children.

We do not have a national program for safe, affordable housing. We did at one time, but it was de-funded by the Conservatives in 1993 and ended by the Liberals in 1996. This is a national shame that an NDP government will most certainly correct.

It was also made clear by witnesses at the citizenship and immigration committee that affordable, regulated child care would also help women facing violence. Despite decades of promises, Canada is still without a national child care program. Fortunately, the NDP has, with the support of our leader, created a plan for $15-a-day child care accessible to all Canadian families. Our plan would be implemented in partnership with the provinces and would fund 370,000 child care spaces. We are only one election away from safe, regulated, and affordable child care. Every child deserves to be cared for and every family, every woman, needs to know that our children are safe.

None of that vision is apparent is Bill S-7. Stakeholders and expert witnesses testified before the Senate committee on human rights that this legislation makes no provisions to allow women who are conditional permanent residents to remain in Canada if their polygamous partner is deported. This legislation would not allow for the reunification of families in instances where a man immigrates with one of his wives and all of his children, leaving other wives behind, effectively separating mothers from their children, from their own offspring.

UNICEF has also expressed concerns that the bill would impose criminal sanctions against minors who attend, celebrate, or help organize a forced marriage, effectively impacting their future with a criminal record. Because the penalties include criminalization, some women and children will not want to come forward to report forced marriages and risk seeing their parents or spouse end up with a criminal record.

There are other measures in the bill that would not achieve anything. They simply duplicate existing laws. Changing the Civil Marriage Act to make free and enlightened consent a legal requirement for a marriage is already part of the civil code of Quebec and common law in other provinces. Canadian criminal law already provides recourse relevant in most cases involving forced marriage prior to and after the marriage, as well as in the case of travelling with a minor with the intent to force that minor into marriage, including uttering threats, assault causing bodily harm, assault with a weapon, aggravated sexual assault, kidnapping, forcible confinement, abduction of a young person, procuring feigned marriage, removal of a child from Canada with intent to commit acts outside Canada that would be offences if committed here, sexual offences against children and youth, failure to provide the necessities of life, and abandoning a child.

As I said, there have been many critics of this legislation. The Canadian Bar Association was unequivocal. The bar's advice was simple and succinct: scrap the bill.

It is clear that we have to stand back from the government's rhetoric to get some perspective on what actually makes sense. If we are truly concerned with the welfare of those who have come to make Canada their home, then we must. There are positive measures that we should enact.

The conditional permanent residence or CPR introduced by the Conservatives in 2012 made permanent residency for sponsored spouses conditional on living together and maintaining a conjugal relationship for two years in cases where the couple has been together for less than two years and does not have children. At a number of committee hearings, witness after witness stressed how this increases the vulnerability of women in our immigration system. It was noted that the obligation to cohabit with a sponsor in order to avoid deportation exposes women to all kinds of abuse, such as isolation, manipulation, and threats. There are remedies. The wives of that individual who is deported should be allowed to stay and become part of Canadian society

In terms of forced marriages and underage marriages, we need to consult with the stakeholders, front-line workers, and experts about what the best programs and measures are for preventing and responding to gender-based violence and how to best implement them and how to commit to implementing our proposed national action plan addressing violence against women. These are important. Above all, let us have full and honest debate so that the best of ideas and policies can become part of Canadian law.

It is time to end the Conservative three-ring circus of division, fearmongering, and scapegoating. It is time to restore sensibility to this House. It is time to stop hiding in camera. Let us throw open the doors and truly listen to Canadians, to the experts, and make good and careful legislation.

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12:15 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Mr. Speaker, I listened with great interest to my hon. colleague. The issue of protecting immigrant women from forced marriage and family violence is very important, but I would like to ask my hon. colleague what she thinks about the intent of this legislation, whether it is actually focused on achieving that end or is focused on stirring up the Conservative base.

We have seen a very disturbing trend lately, which I think is unprecedented, of attacks on the immigrant community. The Minister of Citizenship and Immigration has talked about devout Muslim women in Canada being potential terrorists. Conservatives have talked about “brown people” and “whities”. The member for Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound talked about telling foreigners to go back where they came from.

This kind of race-baiting is very disturbing in a country as multicultural as Canada. I would like to ask my hon. colleague if she thinks that this so-called attack on barbaric practices is another way of race-baiting particular groups in this country.

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

12:15 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Mr. Speaker, the member for Timmins—James Bay is exactly right. This is race-baiting.

The government has spent an inordinate amount of time and energy on stirring up the people of Canada to make them think there is an enemy in every corner and that women and children are somehow the enemy.

This bill, quite simply, perpetuates that. It targets and does great harm to immigrant women. It would prevent them from being able to go to authorities if they are, in fact, in danger. It would prevent their children from being able to speak out if they see violence in their home. It would not protect anyone from harm.

We already have laws that prevent forced marriage and polygamy, all kinds of legislation on the books that addresses those issues.

What we do not have in this country is a serious government that truly wants to look at the issue of violence against women in an entire way. We have seen 1,200 missing and murdered aboriginal women ignored by the government. I would call that barbaric. I would call that very barbaric.

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

June 16th, 2015 / 12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for her comments on this very important bill, the barbaric cultural practices bill.

My understanding is that the member is actually a member of the committee that heard testimony. I believe most of the testimony it heard had a lot to do with victims, including Aruna Papp and Lee Marsh, who commented on the importance of this bill and, as victims themselves, why it is important to pass this legislation.

What would the member say to those people, who actually have been victims and who are supportive of the bill, about why the New Democratic Party is not supporting it going forward?

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

12:20 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Mr. Speaker, as a New Democrat, I am very empathetic to victims of violence. That is something we have stood for on this side of the House, over and over, for decades.

There is a big difference between those who understand the law and those who do not understand the law. In fact, the Canadian Bar Association was very clear. It would seem to me that it does indeed understand the law. It said this is a harmful bill and we should strike it, because there is too much wrong with it. We should get rid of it.

The minister's response to that was that the Canadian Bar Association is filled with Liberals and card-carrying New Democrats. He did not take seriously, at all, the fact that this was a body of legal experts who were warning him, advising him, and telling Parliament that this is a dangerous piece of legislation.

The government should be very careful when it is impacting the lives of women and children and those who are depending on this Parliament to make good and wise decisions. I am still waiting to see those good and wise decisions.

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12:20 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Chambly—Borduas, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to speak today to Bill S-7. Indeed, there are a number of problems with this bill. We can start with the easiest and most obvious point: the title. We rarely want to spend time talking about the title of a bill, but it must be said that a number of witnesses, stakeholders and elected members talked about this at committee. Criticism was voiced about the fact that the title refers to barbaric cultural practices. The reason for raising this point is that since it was elected, this government has used short titles, which simplify what are sometimes overly long titles, as political tools to pander to a particular base, and sometimes even to sow division. An example is the omnibus crime bill entitled safe streets and communities act. By using titles like these, the government is able to pursue its demagoguery, the aim being to portray the opposition as opposed to putting a halt to these practices, or opposed to safe and protected communities. I think this is a problem in the bill, but it is also a way of dividing people and playing them off against one another. This bill talks about barbaric cultural practices; it associates cultural practices with barbaric acts. That is problematic.

With this in mind, it is important to point out, as several of my colleagues have done, including the member for Pierrefonds—Dollard, our critic in this area who made an excellent speech earlier today, that no one in the House, including the NDP, is in favour of violence against women. On the contrary, we denounce these horrifying acts. We ourselves are making proposals to put an end to these acts. For example, we have proposed that there be an inquiry into missing and murdered aboriginal women. My colleague from Churchill moved a motion to adopt a strategy to end violence against women, one of many other measures we have proposed. All of this demonstrates that everyone in the House agrees that these horrible acts should be stopped. The problem is the approach taken, the tool used to achieve that objective. The title of the bill is a very bad start, because it is divisive. The consultation process was also problematic.

These are obviously very complex issues. Why? I have listened to several members talk about stories they have heard from people in other countries. The various things we hear about polygamy and forced marriages sometimes sound strange to people in Quebec and Canada. They are things we are less familiar with. As a result, it is difficult for us, as legislators, to enact good legislation on this subject when we have no experience with it. It is therefore important that we listen to the testimony in committee. With that in mind, and given the complexity and the unfamiliarity to some members in the House, we really need to stress the importance of consultation.

From the outset, even before the bill was introduced, there were flaws in the consultation carried out both before and during the drafting of the bill. Of course we are talking about consultations held behind closed doors, only by invitation of the minister. As a result, some people who would have wanted to participate and voice an opinion may not have been invited. That would have meant that all the different voices and views on this issue could have been heard. When a consultation is by invitation of the minister, it may fall into the trap of partisanship, of wanting to pander to a particular clientele and engaging in vote buying, and even of playing politics.

I believe that is not the only problem with the process. Not only did the committee not adopt any amendments, but the minister rejected the idea of the committee making any amendments, right from the start, before we even had a chance to debate this bill. That is a serious problem, because we all agree that we must find ways to end violence against women, especially since we want all cultural communities and people we have accepted into Canada to feel safe and welcome here and know that we will protect their rights.

From that perspective, it is a serious problem to see such closed-mindedness on the part of the minister and the Conservative government, because we simply want to try to find constructive solutions.

We should agree to work on all the issues on which we can all agree. There are always certain issues, however, that stand out in the crowd. Those would be, for example, matters of security such as Bill C-51, and the issue of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

One would think that we could reach unanimous agreement on these issues, just once. We want to see certain concerns rise above partisanship, and I think those include the issue of violence against women. The fact that the minister had such a closed mind even before we had a chance to debate this issue is very disturbing. It should also worry the Canadians we are trying to protect.

The government is always saying it wants to protect victims. However, it does not want to listen to them. That is a problem and we wonder how good the protective measures can be when it will not listen to the people it is trying to protect.

While we are talking about closed minds, let us also mention time allocation motions, sometimes known as closure. Right now we are trying to debate a bill but are subject to time allocation.

Last week the government set a regrettable record, when it imposed time allocation for the one-hundredth time, reaching 100 motions of closure. This record shows that the government, unfortunately, seeks neither consensus nor productive and constructive ways to serve the community, Canadians, or our constituents who sent us here to Ottawa. The government is only interested in playing politics and this bill is yet another example.

Another point is that this bill originated in the Senate. Even though the minister is the bill's sponsor here in the House, he did not have the courage to introduce it here himself. He made an announcement a very long way from Ottawa, rather than coming into the House and announcing his intention to introduce such a bill. It was done at an event that resembled an election campaign, in the greater Toronto area.

That is another indication that this bill was introduced with partisan and political motives, rather than with a constructive desire to protect the victims of these horrible acts of violence, primarily women and children, of course.

Therefore, we say that the process has a number of shortcomings, which is sufficient reason to oppose the bill, even though we support its intent, as both the hon. member for Pierrefonds—Dollard and I have said.

Let us consider the bill's substance. The government is trying to frighten us by talking about the violence that is committed, including murders and so-called “honour crimes”. We should note, however, that the courts have already determined that cultural practices do not constitute an adequate or sufficient defence under the Criminal Code.

In other words, if someone appears in court charged with murder, he will not have an adequate defence if his only defence is that he committed a crime of honour because of cultural practices. Such a person must face the existing laws, which already protect people from such crimes.

We also want to end polygamy and forced marriage. The government is right to urge action on these matters. The problem is that it is making the wrong moves.

The government stubbornly insists that it simply wants to deport all these people. However, forced marriages take place in secrecy. We are taking a risk that they will become an even deeper secret. If people are afraid to expose such marriages, it is because we are not providing them with the tools to do so, especially since in exposing such situations they might cause their whole family to be deported.

As my colleague from Pierrefonds—Dollard put it so well, polygamy is not just a case of a man imposing his will on several women. The women are victims, and deporting the women is not a solution to polygamy. Clearly, we are going to punish them further and put them in an even more vulnerable situation.

Although we are opposed to violence against women and want to do everything possible to end this scourge, this bill is not the answer. It does not provide the right tools to do so. We therefore must oppose it.

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his very detailed speech, which addressed this broad issue from several angles. I appreciate his hope to see Parliament address these very important questions with as little partisanship as possible. He is right to raise a number of points that are of concern to many experts.

I would like to mention the legislation in Denmark that reinforced a culture of secrecy, since no acts were reported. On that point, I would like to say clearly that I am very surprised, because my colleague just said that this bill was introduced with great fanfare almost suitable for an election campaign.

I would therefore like to draw my colleague’s attention to this. It is very distressing to see the extent to which this government has used legislative issues for partisan purposes and in such an abhorrent way. It simply went ahead with this bill with no amendments, in spite of the extensive testimony from victims and experts, which was ignored by the government, as if it had all the answers.

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Chambly—Borduas, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.

On the issue of partisanship, we need only recall the sad spectacle we witnessed last week during question period. The Conservatives and the Liberals accused each other of having the worst record when it came to immigration and being the most so-called racist party, and here I am using their words, not my own.

In view of that sad spectacle, we must not forget that we are talking about the lives of people and victims. This is not the time to be engaging in vote buying and trying to divide people. That is why we are speaking out against the title of the bill.

In addition, as my colleague said and as I said in my speech, the fact that a bill like this was announced at a campaign-style event in the greater Toronto area reveals a purely vote-seeking and partisan intent. It shows a lack of any desire to solve the problem and a lack of consideration for the victims of horrible acts.

The same thing is happening in relation to a number of issues. We need only think of Bill C-51. When it comes to security and fundamental freedoms, the government can only hurl insults, divide people and make announcements at campaign-style events. That is not the way to govern or the kind of leadership the public is looking for. Most importantly, it is not the way to deal with horrors like these.