House of Commons Hansard #115 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was pipes.
The House resumed from November 24 consideration of the motion that Bill C-18, An Act to amend the Rouge National Urban Park Act, the Parks Canada Agency Act and the Canada National Parks Act, be read the second time and referred to a committee.
The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton
When the House last took up consideration of the motion, the hon. member for Kitchener—Conestoga had 10 minutes remaining for questions and comments after his remarks. We will go to that now.
Questions and comments, the hon. member for Peace River—Westlock.
Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB
Mr. Speaker, could my hon. colleague from Kitchener—Conestoga re-engage the House on the topic and go over some of the highlights of his speech from yesterday?
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Mr. Speaker, I would like to think that my entire speech was a highlight. I will try to keep my remarks short.
Last term when the Conservatives were in government, we had the honour and the privilege of establishing Rouge National Urban Park. I had the privilege of serving as the chair of the environment committee during that time and heard many witnesses give their presentations and voice their concerns. The groups that spoke most clearly to these issues were the environmental groups that clearly wanted to preserve the Rouge National Urban Park while at the same time combining sustainable farming activities.
The one big issue we are facing with respect to this legislation brought forward by the Liberals is that they want to add the term “ecological integrity” to the definition of this urban national park. It is impossible to have the term “ecological integrity” included in the definition of an urban park. Residences are located right next to this park, farms are in the park, and power lines go through the park.
Ecological integrity would demand that the park rangers and so on let nature take its course. For example, if a forest fire were to break out in the urban park, they would need to let that fire burn. If a flood occurred as a result of beavers damming up a stream or river, they would need to let that flood occur. Those kinds of activities and experiences in a park so close to its urban neighbours would be disastrous for the park.
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Mr. Speaker, could our hon. colleague refresh the House on the history of this legislation, as it was before the House previously and debated then?
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Mr. Speaker, as I began my remarks yesterday, I referred to the fact that the Liberal Party in a previous Parliament was against adopting the legislation on Rouge National Park primarily because the Ontario Liberal government was unwilling to transfer land to the park. In fact, the provincial Liberal government demanded $100 million to append a section of the park to the Rouge National Urban Park. According to the provincial government, this was not its main concern but the fact we had not included ecological integrity in the definition of the park. It seems clear that that was simply a political cover so it would not be embarrassed about not including this section of the park in the boundaries we defined.
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Mr. Speaker, given that I hail from British Columbia, this issue is a bit far and away for me to really comment on it. However, I am shocked to hear there are political issues affecting what should be a straightforward process in working with provincial governments.
Could the member share some insight about what should be avoided when working together with other jurisdictions in this great country to restore or conserve more parkland?
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Mr. Speaker, I do not claim to be an expert on national parks, but we did hear from Alan Latourelle, who was the CEO of Parks Canada for 13 years. Mr. Latourelle was very clear that, yes, for the majority of national parks the term “ecological integrity” is included, but we are not faced with the same set of circumstances in them. We are not faced with urban neighbours or highways and power lines going through those parks.
What is really disappointing to me is to think that here we have the opportunity. The Conservative government took advantage of the opportunity and implemented the Rouge National Urban Park right next door to the GTA. Children might not otherwise ever get the chance to visit a national park. They are basically at the end of the transit line and could visit the park. They could feel and touch and learn.
To think that we would have farmers in the park using sustainable agriculture to provide produce, fresh fruits and vegetables, which in some cases children and families could go there together to pick, what a fantastic opportunity for urban dwellers it would be to be exposed to a rural landscape.
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
Mr. Speaker, I listened closely to my colleague's speech. He always has such interesting and relevant things to say.
A number of his colleagues expressed concerns about Bill C-18. I can understand why many of them would be reluctant to support it, but they often seem to end their speeches with remarks on the amendments needed to make this bill more acceptable, and we seem to be running out of time.
Would the member like to take this opportunity to tell us which amendments would make this bill acceptable to him?
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his work on the environment committee.
At the end of my remarks yesterday, I clearly identified the amendment I would like to see in Bill C-18. It is very simple. It is to remove the concept of ecological integrity from the bill. Our farmers who work in the park and use sustainable agricultural practices are not using till. Their impact on the environment is minimal. In fact, they are a benefit to our urban dwellers. We can think of the ecological goods and services our farmers are producing, including the oxygen from the cover crops they plant and the clean water from the wetlands that are preserved, and all of those things.
As I said in my comments yesterday, our farmers are some of the best environmentalists in the country. This is a way to recognize them, acknowledge the work they do on our behalf, and give urban dwellers in the GTA the opportunity to see a national park right on their doorstep without their having to drive for hours and hours or fly out west.
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Mr. Speaker, I have to admit that I am not as familiar with this bill as I would like to be. Our schedules are fairly hectic and busy. Our hon. colleague, the member for Kitchener—Conestoga just talked about the term “ecological integrity”. Could he go into a little more detail about that term and its implications? If the term is left in the bill and not changed, what would that mean overall, not just for Rouge National Urban Park but potentially also Banff National Park, or Jasper, which is adjacent to my riding and, potentially, parks from coast to coast to coast in Canada? There might be serious implications for those parks.
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Mr. Speaker, as I commented yesterday, the whole term “ecological integrity” includes this supporting processes concept. That concept means that we leave alone the engines that make the ecosystems work, like fire and flooding. If we let fires burn and flooding go unchecked in an urban area, which have the potential to wreak havoc in residential areas and create incredible risks for our urban neighbours, it is clear that we cannot have this term “ecological integrity”.
I want to be clear. All of us in this room, I am sure, are eager to work as closely as we can to that target of ecological integrity. However, if we simply put those words in the bill, with ecological integrity's current definition, they would just be nice sounding words. They would have no impact, as they have no meaning. We will work toward ecological integrity, but to have that wording as a definition in an actual bill this Parliament passes would be disingenuous.
Shaun Chen Liberal Scarborough North, ON
Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to speak to Bill C-18, which will enhance and protect the Rouge National Urban Park, the first of its kind in our great country.
All across Canada, our national parks play an important role in preserving and protecting an abundance of wildlife, native plants, and heritage areas. Whether it is the valleys, mountains, and glaciers of Banff National Park, or the world's highest tides at Fundy National Park, these national treasures offer the most breathtaking outlooks I have ever seen. Anyone who has spent time in our national parks, taking in the perfection of a still lake, breathing in the luscious green of summer, or feeling the calm of snow-covered evergreens in winter can bear witness to the beauty that is found in our national natural landscapes.
The Rouge Park, a small portion of which is located in my riding of Scarborough North, is indeed a national treasure, home to rare Carolinian forests and over 1,700 species of plants, birds, mammals, insects, reptiles, and amphibians. This park is a keeper of human history, including some of the oldest aboriginal sites, villages, and travel routes known in our country. That is why I stand today in support of Bill C-18, which will ensure the protection of this important ecosystem and provide guidance on how the park will be managed. This bill will rightfully extend the area of the Rouge Park so that, once it is fully established, it will be one of the world's largest and most protected parks within an urban setting.
Most importantly, this bill would ensure that the park is managed in a way that achieves ecological integrity so that native plants, wildlife, waterways, and ecological processes remain fully intact. Our government has made environmental protection one of its most important priorities. The enlargement and protection of the Rouge Park is certainly a positive step to improving our environmental stewardship.
In 2009, as the local school board trustee, I started a tree-planting program as part of the Rouge Park's restoration project for students across our riding. Working with the Rouge Valley Conservation Centre and the Rouge Valley Naturalists, this annual tree planting project allowed our children, many of whom live in inner city communities, to experience the beauty of nature and how they can protect it.
The location of the Rouge Park makes it accessible to many Canadian families who may not otherwise have the chance to experience such nature. It is within an hour's travel time for seven million Canadians who live in the region. Many areas of the park are also accessible to wheelchairs, strollers, and mobility aids.
The Rouge Park is a treasure trove of natural parklands, waterways, marshlands, nature trails, and farmland. Its forest and wetlands have sustained groups of nomadic hunters, Iroquois farmers, and early European settlers. A national historic site within the park is named Bead Hill, an archeological site with the remains of a 17th century Seneca village. As well, the Rouge Park is the site of some of the best farmland in the country. Generations of farmers are known to have farmed this rare and fertile land since 1799.
When I think about the expansion and preservation of the Rouge Park, I think about future generations of children and youth. Exposure to a natural environment can have a positive influence on people's moods and general outlook. Spending time in a natural setting can reduce stress and anxiety and can improve a young person's capacity to learn. When people have the opportunity to experience the richness of our natural ecosystems, they will develop a lifelong respect for the health of our planet. That is why this bill is so incredibly important. It will ensure that the protection of nature, culture, and agriculture happens today and continues into the future. With all of its natural wonders, the Rouge Park is a part of our home and our backyard, a legacy that will live on for many generations to come.
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
Mr. Speaker, I have been listening to some of the speeches this morning, including by my colleague from Kitchener—Conestoga.
One of the things I would like to talk to my colleague about is this term “ecological integrity”, because to me it is outrageous that the Liberals would bring this forward. We are talking about lands the Ontario government has mismanaged for years, to a point where there is actually a dump in these parklands. It has 400-series highways, pipelines, and electrical infrastructure. If we are looking at the term “ecological integrity”, all of those things would have to be taken out of the park. As an Ontario MP just down the street from the Rouge, my problem is that the Ontario government wants the federal government to pay for the cleanup of its mismanagement.
Therefore, my question for my colleague is this. Where does he think the money will come from, or will he stand in this House today, be very firm, and say that the federal government will not accept the lands from the Ontario government until it has cleaned them up to the level the federal government desires?
Shaun Chen Liberal Scarborough North, ON
Mr. Speaker, I cannot think of any greater challenge that our generation of youth and children have to face than the protection of our planet. The reason why we have ecological integrity is exactly that, because we have to make sure that this land is preserved. We have to make sure that the ecology of this land is kept intact for many generations to come.
That is why I urge all colleagues in this House to support the bill so that we can make sure that our Rouge Park continues to be a place of hope for many generations for the years to come.
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
Mr. Speaker, I listened closely to my colleague's remarks.
Naturally, I agree with him on the broad principles, because how can one not? I too care deeply about this issue. However, in a debate like the one we are having this morning, we have to take things a little farther.
The Environment Canada framework is very specific. According to How Much Habitat is Enough?, parks must have 30% forest cover and 10% wetlands to ensure the integrity of the ecosystem. In the Rouge Park, forest cover is at 13% and wetlands at 2%.
What will the government do to achieve the Environment Canada objectives?
Shaun Chen Liberal Scarborough North, ON
Mr. Speaker, this park is indeed a unique project. Once fully established, this park will be the largest and best protected urban area in the country. It will be 79 square kilometres big, 19 times larger than Stanley Park in Vancouver, 22 times larger than Central Park in New York, and indeed, 50 times larger than Toronto's High Park.
Ensuring the ecological integrity will be a tremendous task, but I have great confidence that we will work very hard together to ensure that this happens so that our future generations can continue to enjoy this beautiful ecological area.
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to hear that we are concerned about our next generation and the protection of our environment and the opportunity to put forward this park as it was previously suggested by our government.
What concerns me is what the member opposite said in regard to our next generation, how important it is that we do this for their future. At the same time, we also have to be aware that their future is greatly affected by the amount of money we spend right now that we do not have, that they in turn will be responsible for in the future.
When I hear the vision for this park and where the government opposite is going with it, I would ask the Liberals this. Has the government done some research to determine what it will cost us to do this? I did not get a clear answer from the member on the expectations of the provincial Liberal government to do what it should have done in the first place, since it is so environmentally focused, to take care of the needs in that park before it becomes the responsibility of the present government, which has huge debts looming before us for that next generation.
Shaun Chen Liberal Scarborough North, ON
Mr. Speaker, I fully agree with the member opposite. It is so important for our next generation, for our children and youth to have this as a legacy that we leave behind.
I am confident that our government will continue to work closely with our provincial and territorial counterparts across the country on various conversations, and that includes conversations around the Rouge Urban National Park with the Province of Ontario, and indeed, all the stakeholders.
We want to work together with everyone to make sure we do this right and that we preserve these wetlands, this ecological treasure trove for generations to come.
Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON
Mr. Speaker, that was a very passionate speech and eloquently put. The member is obviously a big supporter of that, and I thank the member for that.
I am from Sault Ste. Marie. In my area, we have a number of provincial and national parks that are utilized extensively. As the member mentioned in his speech, he was a school board trustee, as I was, and our schools used to do many things in those parks.
Could the member describe a little about the advantage of Rouge Park for children, for schools, as well as perhaps the health benefits of having the trees and the fauna in the area?
Shaun Chen Liberal Scarborough North, ON
Mr. Speaker, it is absolutely important. I have witnessed first-hand the joy of our children and youth when they go hands-on to plant that tree as part of a restoration project for this important Rouge Park. I have seen them learning, and talking about it in the classroom with their teachers before they go out to understand the importance of greenery in our national landscape, and how carbon emissions can be reduced when we plant more trees.
It is certainly important for children to experience nature and to get out there for an educational hike, which is provided for them with the Rouge Valley Conservation Centre and the Rouge Valley Naturalists. It is an incredible learning experience that indeed all Canadian children should have the benefit of.
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Mr. Speaker, I want to commend my colleague for his initiative in planting trees. I, too, have had the privilege of planting well over 1,700 trees on my property, and I think it is one example that every Canadian could follow. We could each do our little part. We do not have to have government do everything.
As we listened to the witnesses on Bill C-40, the predecessor of the bill before us, it was clear from farmers and experts, and from the CEO of Parks Canada, Alan Latourelle, who clearly said in testimony that we cannot include the concept of ecological integrity in the bill.
Is my colleague suggesting that we cannot trust our Parks Canada experts and officials when they make a very clear, unequivocal recommendation to the committee, or is he simply acknowledging that this is paying back the political loan to the Ontario Liberals?
Shaun Chen Liberal Scarborough North, ON
Mr. Speaker, the amendments that are being proposed to the Rouge National Urban Park Act will in fact provide a greater sense of certainty for the farmers who are in the area.
Indeed, one-year leases will be replaced with leases of up to 30 years. These leases will ensure the long-term stability for the park farmers, many of whom, as I mentioned earlier in my speech, are families who have been farming in the area since 1799. This certainly is important for the agricultural sector. It is important as a local food source for people who live in the region.
Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB
Mr. Speaker, the member, in his speech, addressed the fact that this has been a place of commerce for a long time. He mentioned that there were indigenous trading routes that travelled through this area. I am not very familiar with the area, but as far as I know, currently there are a number of trading routes through the area, a major highway, a pipeline, a power line, and that kind of thing.
I am wondering, when we use the words “ecological integrity”, does that mean we must pull those routes out of this area?
Shaun Chen Liberal Scarborough North, ON
Mr. Speaker, we are making changes here that will indeed be very helpful; for example, establishing the Garden River Indian Reserve. There is a parcel of land, 37 square kilometres, that will be withdrawn from the Wood Buffalo National Park. Our government is honouring this important commitment to the Little Red River Cree Nation.
This type of legislation is important, because it respects the commitments that the government has made to not only preserve ecological integrity, but to ensure that our aboriginal people are respected.