Debates of Nov. 3rd, 2016

Opposition Motion—Preferential access to government

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I must say right up front that I am somewhat disappointed in the Conservative Party. The member made reference to the importance of politics, what an honour and privilege it is to be in this beautiful chamber, and what Canadians have entrusted us to do. Unfortunately, at times—and this could be one of those times—members have chosen to paint an ugly picture, which does not necessarily justify what members actually do.

Let me make a very strong suggestion. It is important that we all recognize this from the beginning. The federal rules are some of the strongest in the country, and donations and contributions are made openly and transparently. My question to the member is this. Have there been any changes to any of the election laws or any other laws since the Conservative government was in power just a year ago? Were there any changes in laws, and did the Conservatives not follow those very same rules?

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Mr. Speaker, there is the “Open and Accountable Government” document that has been published on the Government of Canada's website. This is the change that Conservatives are talking about. This is the document, the ethical standards and bar, that the Prime Minister has set for himself and his ministers. I do not know why the parliamentary secretary is asking me a rhetorical question to which he already knows the answer.

If the parliamentary secretary is convinced that the laws in the Canada Elections Act and all of the other legislation that we follow as politicians was sufficient, why is he not asking his own leader what the heck this is for. Why did the Mr. Prime Minister do it? If he did not intend to honour it, it does not mean anything, and we do not have to follow it, what is it all about? Is it just a show? Is it just an opportunity for Liberals to say one thing and do another? Is that what Canadians expect of us? Is that the standard to which politicians want their integrity and honour held? We should mean what we say and say what we mean.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, what is really important for taxpayers and others watching this to understand is that this is their money. Taxpayers pay virtually all of the rebates on the first $400 of political donations, 75% of it. Taxpayers foot the bill for people to eat shrimp, drink booze, and receive a number of gifts from events. In fact, businesses that do this write off the expenses to go to them.

What is interesting about this situation with the Liberals is they dined off of telling the electorate they would do something different. It is a fraudulent way to go about doing something. What really compounds it is that Apotex is again involved, which has a history with the Liberal Party. To give a quick example, when Joe Volpe was running for the Liberal leadership, Apotex had children donating to the campaign. In fact, five Apotex executives and their children gave around $108,000 to his campaign, and the Liberals defended this.

We know that the current situation has ties back to the Liberal Party. When people are sitting on their sofas watching this debate, they should remember that they will be paying for the booze, the crackers, and the gifts that go to CEOs and executives who can afford $1,500, while they are probably having a hard time paying their heating bills.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure there was a question. I will not doubt the points my colleague has made. I am not aware of the issue with respect to our former colleague Mr. Volpe, but it is very disconcerting. What I think he is getting at is the fact that we as members of Parliament are held to account by the Ethics Commissioner.

I remember receiving a little bag of natural health products a couple of years ago. Members of Parliament get these little things from time to time. There was a letter inside, and that is what the Ethics Commissioner took issue with. There might have been $30, $40, $50 worth of natural health products in the bag, some of which might have been useful and some not. We are talking about a very small sum of money in value for this gift that was given to all parliamentarians in the last Parliament.

However, the letter inside lobbied us and asked us to take a position on legislation or on a government policy. The Ethics Commissioner found out about it and wrote us all a letter telling us to give it back. We might have been swayed by a handful of vitamins to support legislation or a policy. Yet the same Ethics Commissioner cannot even look into a $1,525 cash for access event that is exclusive to Liberal Party donors only, where attendees have access to the Prime Minister and to high-level cabinet ministers who make those policy decisions on a daily basis. That is the inequity and that is what this motion today is all about.

Therefore, I thank my colleague for bringing up this question which allows me to raise the spectre of this inequity and gives the Ethics Commissioner an opportunity to do her job and ensure that all of us in the House are protected.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I have a simple question. When Mr. Harper was the prime minister, did the former Conservative government receive money, or a donation of $120 or any amount, from people to attend a dinner where cabinet ministers or the prime minister were in attendance, yes or no?

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I would not be aware of any because I did not go to any. Therefore, I do not know what the hon. member is trying to articulate.

First, I do know that when events were held by the Conservative Party, members of Parliament attended as members of Parliament. Second, they were all public and wide open to anybody who could buy a ticket and wanted to go. Third, I do remember one time when one of our colleagues, a former minister and former member of Parliament from Winnipeg, Shelly Glover, had her EDA host an event. A number of people, who could have been seen to have been relative to her portfolio when she was a cabinet minister, had purchased tickets and the event was cancelled because it was the right thing to do.

When it comes to these kinds of standards and practices, the Conservative Party's personal bar on this, even though we do not have it in a document, rises well above anything we see over there.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague from Red Deer—Lacombe gave an astonishingly cogent speech. It laid out this issue in clear and uncertain terms.

What bothers me about what we see from the government side and the cash for access antics is this. What kind of corrosive effect does it have on the decision-making process in government, and in turn on the trust that people have in government? Not everyone is an elitist who can attend cash for access fundraisers.

Regular citizens deal with their government all the time. Small business people get licences, small companies go through environmental assessment processes, and so on. They expect the decisions to be fair, open and honest. What we now see is a slippery slope toward, and I use this word deliberately, corruption. In many of the dysfunctional countries around the world, especially in some of the poorer parts of the world, people are poor because of corruption, and for no other reason than corruption.

Could my hon. friend comment on the slippery slope we may be on now?

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my eloquent, articulate, and intelligent friend for the question. The folks across the floor think I am attacking them. I am not. I truly am trying to protect everyone in the House with the motion.

We can look at an organization called GOPAC. The Global Organization of Parliamentarians Against Corruption was started by former parliamentarian, and a good friend of mine, John Williams, back in Alberta. The association and correlation between corruption and poverty is astonishing. When corruption goes up, so does poverty and despair. It is a direct correlation. That is why conducting ourselves with integrity, being open, accountable and transparent is so vitally important.

My hon. colleague's question is the best one I have had yet today.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, it is always a pleasure to rise to speak inside this wonderful chamber. I truly thank the constituents of Winnipeg North who have allowed me to be here to respond issues, whether it be this issue or what we witnessed earlier with the special tribute for Remembrance Day, for members both past and present of our Canadian Forces, and for the sacrifices they have made.

I would like to echo the many remarks toward our vets that have been put on the record today and, as a government member, express our best wishes in going forward and encouraging people to participate in Remembrance Day on November 11.

I will be very specific on a few points. When we talk about democracy and, in this case, what the Conservative Party has raised over a number of days, it is important for Canadians not to be deceived by the misinformation of the Conservative Party. Therefore, I will hit on some very specific points that need to be reinforced.

First, the federal rules are some of the strongest in the country, and donations and contributions are made in an open and transparent fashion. In fact, in some provinces, individuals can donate in the tens of thousands of dollars, and others do not have any limits on contributions. In addition, some provinces accept donations from unions, trade associations, and corporations. This is not the case in the federal system. We follow all the rules and the laws around fundraising. We are proud that we have one of the strictest regimes around fundraising for political parties.

Our government spends a tremendous amount of time working hard for Canadians across the country, whether it is meeting with crowds, individuals, or listening to consumer groups, small businesses, and the like. We are engaged so we can deliver for Canadians, and Canadians know that.

Our government has embarked on unprecedented levels of public consultations to ensure we respond to the very real challenges that Canadians face. This is why we did things like raise taxes on the wealthiest 1% and lowered them for the middle class. Canadians wanted these things.

There is no preferential access to this government. This government is demonstrating the most open and transparent approach, not just in following the rules but in being more engaged with Canadians than any previous government. We are consulting and we are engaged. The fact is that listening to Canadians is what is allowing us to deliver for Canadians, as we have been doing for the past year and as we will continue to be doing.

For over a year now, the members opposite have been criticizing this government regularly for engaging Canadians too much, for being too open and accessible, for consulting regularly with Canadians and demonstrating the most open and accessible government our country has ever seen. The Conservatives have been critical of that.

We, of course, follow all the rules and ensure we engage with Canadians. We are listening to them in the most positive and respectful way possible. All members of Parliament and all parties fundraise, and we all abide by the exact same rules, rules that were put in place by the previous government. When the rules are followed, no conflicts of interest can exist. We will continue to follow all of the rules.

There are a number of things I would like to share with the House.

Before he became Prime Minister and was the leader of the Liberal Party, the issue of proactive disclosure came up. A number of my colleagues from all parties will recall that particular initiative. The Liberal Party had third-party status and a relatively small caucus. Our leader stood up and asked for the unanimous consent of the House to bring in proactive disclosure. No matter how often he attempted to do it, we could not get unanimous support to make it happen. However, the leader of the Liberal Party did not stop there. He then indicated that if the House were not prepared to go there, the Liberal Party was, and all members of the Liberal caucus were obligated to abide by proactive disclosure. Even at the expense of the party, we went for proactive disclosure. To the credit of the Harper government, the Conservative Party did likewise months after we made that commitment. That party followed the leadership of the Liberal Party. Months afterward and following a Liberal opposition motion, we were able to garner unanimous support for proactive disclosure. New Democrats finally joined with us.

I say this because we do not have to play second fiddle to other parties in the chamber when it comes to public accountability and transparency and making sure that we are doing things right. The leader of the third party at that time clearly demonstrated that, and is clearly demonstrating that as the Prime Minister of Canada now.

No laws have been broken. The Conservatives can try to conspire and make all sorts of accusations, but the bottom line is that Canada has some of the most stringent laws in place to ensure that there is no conflict of interest. Members of the Liberal cabinet and this government are following the laws of our land so that there cannot be any conflict of interest. The members across the way know that. They are just being mischievous and trying to create something that is not there.

I am a strong democrat who believes in the parliamentary system. I am not going to be intimidated by someone who gives me a $1,500 donation, a $1,000 donation, or a $500 donation. I am accessible to my constituents. I am going to advertise what I do at this point. Every Saturday from 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock, I am at the local McDonald's, meeting with constituents. I have been doing this for over 20 years. What influences me personally is when I hear a good case from my constituents. I take that to my caucus colleagues and to the floor of the House. A good example of that is the reunification of families, because that is an area of huge interest to my constituents. Virtually every other week, whether at the local restaurant or by email or phone calls, my constituents get in touch with me or my office. That influences me personally.

Democracy is an important aspect to who we are individually and who we are as a society. I have had donations in excess of $1,000 and I could not tell anyone the names of all of those individuals. I might be able to list one or two. Do I appreciate these donations? Absolutely. I also appreciate the individuals who volunteer for my campaign. Some people are not in a position to give a cash donation but are more than happy to donate their labour or their time, and they do that in a multitude of ways. Some will assist me and the Liberal Party by knocking on doors and putting up signs. I do not feel indebted to them. I do not feel like I have to bring up every one of their issues on the floor of the House of Commons, unless, of course, it is an issue that I concur with. These individuals are just as important as those who donate to my campaign.

What are we going to see next? Are the opposition benches going to say that so-and-so volunteered a lot on a member's campaign and that it is a conflict of interest because he is influencing the member? It would be bizarre to think so. I have dinners in riding on many occasions and people often have to pay for them. Sometimes I will have a social activity and get hundreds of constituents attending at $10 a pop to participate. Other times I will get a $1,000 donation, and other times I will have a $100 dinner and they will participate. It is all about democracy.

Whether people are putting up signs, making telephone calls, going door to door, delivering brochures, or donating because they do not have the time to work directly on a campaign, I respect all of it. I do not give them preferential treatment. As for accessibility, come to my local McDonald's any Saturday and I am there. I might miss one or two Saturdays a year, but I like to think that I am accessible. I am no different from many, if not most, of the members in the chamber. I believe we all appreciate it.

Does the Conservative Party not have fundraisers in which they charge money? Of course they do. Even the New Democrats do. If we want to change or improve some of the laws, let us propose a study in committee and have a debate on how we might want to look at making some changes to the election laws to enhance them. That is something all members are entitled to do. It could also be done in private members' bills, but do not try to give the impression that laws have been broken when they have not been. I have seen election laws broken in the past and seen the party across the way violate those laws. The members sitting on the other side of the House should not point and throw stones at a glass house when they have been in violation of election laws.

What we have witnessed here is a government that is truly open and transparent on a wide variety of issues. If the members opposite want to talk about accessibility and the Minister of Finance having dinners, tell me about any other minister of finance who has been as accessible to input on budgetary matters as the current minister has been? Let me save the work for them, because they will not find another minister of finance who has been so aggressive in wanting to hear what Canadians have to say about the budget and the next budget. Even Mr. Flaherty was nowhere near to being as close to the public as this government has been in its consultations. I can assure members of that.

We are not always talking about thousands, but about tens of thousands, and we are talking about many different ways, not just through the Internet. In fact, we have a Minister of Finance and a parliamentary secretary who go into many different regions of our country to listen to what Canadians have to say.

[Some hon. members]

Sunny ways for a price.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Yes, sunny ways, you're right. We are for sunny ways.

What we are doing is that we are moving—

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Order. There is still six minutes remaining in the hon. member's time and I am sure he will want to use that. It is awfully loud in here. It is very difficult for the Speaker to hear what has been said and I am sure that other hon. members may wish to hear what the hon. parliamentary secretary wishes to say as well. We will carry on. The hon. parliamentary secretary.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, for the member who heckled, he is going to put it on his Facebook page. Make sure I am linked to it. I do not know exactly how Facebook works, but I would be happy to be linked.

Let me comment on sunny ways. There is a great deal of merit in recognizing, as the Prime Minister has consistently challenged us to do, that there is always a better way of doing things and that we do not have to settle. We have seen the Minister of Finance take that advice to heart. He has indicated very clearly that he wants to listen to Canadians.

Look at the value and the return we have witnessed from that in the last year. I had someone come to the local McDonald's not that long ago who said to me that this government had achieved more in the first year than the previous Harper government did in the last 10 years. That is not the first time I have heard that particular comment. Where do members think these ideas and suggestions are coming from?

These suggestions are coming through the consultations by, and the accessibility of, the many ministers who are going out and doing what this Prime Minister has asked them to do, to consult and work with Canadians. It goes beyond that, because members of Parliament are also being asked to do this in an apolitical fashion. We say not only to Liberal members of Parliament but to all members of Parliament that they should do what is ultimately in the best interests of Canadian society, and to get out and listen to what Canadians are saying.

I do it every week. I would like to think that we all want to play a very strong role. We can learn a lot from this, when we take a look at the budget, for example. I have had the good fortune of talking about the economic update and the budget twice this week. In those two documents, there was talk about seniors. If members consult, as we have with seniors, they will find that there is wide support for increasing the guaranteed income supplement, helping tens of thousands of seniors to get out poverty. Canadians want that.

Members will also find that there is wide support for the Canada child benefit, which is going to lift tens of thousands of children out of poverty. Again, Canadians want that. Moreover, members will find that Canadians wanted us to reduce the age of eligibility for OAS from 67 to 65. This is something the out-of-touch Conservatives increased from 65 to 67, when they said no to the OAS and increased the age of retirement. We reversed that because we were listening to what Canadians were saying, not only to the Minister of Finance but to many others as well.

I think we should all be very cognizant of the fact that democracy means that there has to be some form of finances. If other members have ideas on how to deal with it, they should bring those up at one of the committees or have some off-line discussions, but they should not try to give an impression of something that is just not true.

There are no laws being broken on this side of the House in regard to financial matters. To try to suggest otherwise is just wrong. To the member who moved this particular motion and started his speech by saying that sometimes people do not think nicely about us as politicians and so forth, that member and the Conservative have a choice. They are choosing to try to give an impression that is absolutely false.

Nothing has gone wrong on this front. I do not know about other members across the way, but I assure the hon. member that I, as a politician, am not going to be bought off by a $1,500 donation. I appreciate individuals who donate to my campaigns and to my political party, or to any political party. It is hard for democracy to work if there is no money. People should not kid themselves, because that is only one aspect of democracy.

When members talk about a slippery slope, let me suggest the real slippery slope here is that if they continue to exaggerate something that is just not valid, it will then become a slippery slope in terms of democracy.

I look forward to seeing how the New Democrats are going to be voting on the motion. My recommendation to them is to reflect on the laws, which they have followed, and I will reserve my thoughts more specific to the New Democrats after I have heard their position. However, I trust they will support democracy, the laws that are here. The fact is, no laws have been broken. Therefore, there can be no conflict.

Mr. Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to share a few thoughts on the record. It is always a privilege to stand in this place.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

There is a lot of interest in participating in the questions and comments portion of the debate today, so I would ask all members and those responding to keep their interventions to no more than a minute.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Huron—Bruce.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Mr. Speaker, a member in his riding donated close to $1,500, and lo and behold, ended up on the Prime Minister's delegation to Ukraine. Let us get the facts. It is on Elections Canada's website and on Facebook. They went together.

He said he could not be bought. I wonder if he would table any and all information he has about trying to push for this member to attend a delegation with the Prime Minister to Ukraine. Perhaps he could comment on that and the donations that are on the Elections Canada website in his Winnipeg North riding. Once again, it is pay to play, and it is unacceptable.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I would appreciate if the member could share with me the name of the individual he is referring to. I might be able to speculate. The member says it is online. I am glad it is online. I do not know the last time I actually looked. I could not tell you the last time I even saw those individuals that donated.

The point is that I appreciate everyone who donates to my campaign. I appreciate all individuals who donate, whether to the Liberal Party, the Conservative Party, and even the NDP. I appreciate them all because donations are a part of democracy.

For the member to try to give the impression that I went to bat for someone is just wrong. I did not go to bat for someone to go to Ukraine because someone gave a $1,500 donation. Number one, I am just not aware of it.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am very troubled by the parliamentary secretary's comments on the motion. The issue before this place is the issue of preferential access to ministers of the government. We are not debating the fact that all political candidates, all political parties, and elected officials go out from time to time to meet with constituents and also from time to time attend fundraisers. We are talking about preferential access to ministers of the crown.

Also, the response over and over by the House leader to questions put to her on this matter has been troubling. What she has said over and over is that her government has adopted among the strictest rules in Canada. Therefore, I would like the member to inform us today, which are the jurisdictions that have stricter rules and why they are not following those.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I am a little disappointed in the lead-up to the question. It somewhat implies that the New Democrats might actually be working with the Conservatives and voting for the motion. I hope that is not the case, because at the end of the day, it is important for us to recognize that no laws have in fact been broken. If no laws have been broken, I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, there is no conflict of interest.

At the end of the day, I sure hope that the New Democrats will side with democracy as opposed to playing the politics the Conservatives have chosen to play on this issue.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Mr. Speaker, all I can say is “Wow”.

Since the hon. member likes hanging out at McDonald's, I am sure he has heard about the new Liberal happy meal, where one can order anything at all on the menu and the kids behind will pay for it.

With all due respect to the parliamentary secretary, he is not a minister. Ministers have wide-ranging powers and influence on money and decisions. They influence massive budgets. This is not about hanging out at McDonald's on a Saturday. This is about preferential access to ministers for a price, and in secrecy.

Surely, the Prime Minister must have known this when he wrote in this appendix to his ministers that there should be no preferential access to government, nor appearance of preferential access. Is this document worthless, or is it relevant?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, thank goodness I was not part of the Harper Conservative caucus. I do not know how the Conservatives treated their members. I can assure the House that all Liberal caucus members are treated equally and their input is critical to the decisions being made by the government. I very much appreciate that attitude, whether it comes from the Prime Minister, the cabinet ministers, the parliamentary secretaries, or the chairs of the many standing committees.

All I can really do is assure the member that accessibility, accountability, and transparency are of the highest priority for the government and we will continue to deliver on all three.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs (Consular Affairs)]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague spent a lot of time talking about the importance of democracy and how citizens who want to be engaged in democracy can express themselves through volunteerism or donations. It is really important to empower citizens who want a voice in their government to support the parties they agree with and volunteer in campaigns.

Let me talk about the difference between the previous government and the current government. The previous government would not even allow citizens to attend open rallies. Citizens who came to attend free rallies were sent away. The Conservative prime minister and ministers also held fundraisers. Let us have a discussion about fundraisers. The previous government ended public subsidies. Why did it end public subsidies?

I am asking my colleague to talk about this. Let us have a conversation about fundraising rules, but can we stop maligning Canadians who want to participate in the political process?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, let me emphasize one aspect of my colleague's question. That is that when we talk about democracy, which we talk a lot about in this chamber, as well we should, we need to recognize there are many different components to it, pillars of our democracy. What is so critically important is not only having those most loved and cherished volunteers but also having finances.

It is important to recognize today, at the very least, and reinforce that no laws have been broken, and therefore, there is no conflict of interest.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad we have a democracy in which we can raise these issues. I am going to ask the hon. member a quick question.

He contends that the government has broken absolutely no rules, that it is following all ethical practices, and that everything is fine. He then says that Conservatives are in error because we are raising concerns about the lack of verification, because this is ultimately an issue of agency. Right now, it is the Privy Council Office, which is accountable to the Prime Minister and his government, that is the arbiter of these rules. It is not a transparent process by which we can say whether those rules are being followed, and ultimately, that group is accountable to the Prime Minister.

If Liberals are doing nothing wrong, what is wrong with giving this to an independent authority at arm's length, such as the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, to examine it and let Canadians know what the truth is?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it was interesting when the mover of the motion talked about the commissioner. He made reference to the fact that there were all these other issues being raised that the commissioner was talking about, trying to give a false impression, trying to give the impression that the Liberal government is doing all of these things that the commissioner is looking at. What the member did not say is that the commissioner likely spends a good percentage of her time dealing with Conservative and NDP issues as well. The office of the commissioner does not serve only the cabinet; it serves everyone.

Just to reinforce what I have always said, at the end of the day, democracy is a great thing.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Mr. Speaker, when I was listening to the member's comments, it did not seem at all as though he was speaking to the motion today. He was talking about other issues. He talked a bit about the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, but he also talked about volunteers and what they do on the campaign trail. Of course, we know that one of the volunteers hired a limousine service and ended up having to pay it back.

I am wondering where exactly the ethical bar is for Liberals.