House of Commons Hansard #125 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was german.

Topics

The House resumed from November 25 consideration of the motion that Bill C-25, An Act to amend the Canada Business Corporations Act, the Canada Cooperatives Act, the Canada Not-for-profit Corporations Act, and the Competition Act, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

When the House last took up debate on the question, the hon. member for Regina—Lewvan had seven minutes remaining in his remarks.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Regina—Lewvan.

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:05 a.m.

NDP

Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK

Mr. Speaker, we are nearing the end of 2016. New Year's Day 2017 falls on a Sunday. The first payday of the new year will be January 2. By around noon on January 3, Canada's top 100 CEOs will, on average, have made as much money as the average full-time employee will earn over the entire year. In 2013, and again in 2014, Canada's top CEOs made an average of $9 million each. That means that the top CEOs made 184 times as much as the average Canadian worker.

This inequality is not only large, but it is growing. Figures on the top 100 CEOs only go back to 2008 on a comparable basis, but if we look at the top 50 CEOs, an even more elite group, in 1995 they made only 85 times as much as the average worker, so there has been an explosion of executive compensation over the past two decades.

Why should we care if private companies choose to pay their CEOs a lot of money? If we take the 100 top CEOs, each making an average of $9 million, that is nearly $1 billion that is not being used to hire other employees, not being invested in machinery and equipment, and not being used for needed research and development. Corporate Canada as a whole would be better off if it could pay CEOs less. However, individual corporate boards feel pressure to keep up with what CEOs of other companies are paid. This leads to a circular logic that justifies ever higher executive compensation.

Even the CEOs themselves do not really benefit from this trend. An extra million dollars does not make a material difference in their standard of living. Really, they are concerned about their relative position compared to other CEOs, so if a CEO gets paid more it increases his or her position on the league tables only by reducing the position of other CEOs. Our economy would be stronger, and even corporate Canada itself would be better off with government regulation to limit CEO compensation.

Bill C-25 includes some minor improvements to corporate governance, but what is missing is the mandatory and binding say on pay provisions that we find in other advanced economies. Currently, Canadian companies can consult shareholders on executive compensation, but they are not bound by the results of those votes. The NDP is going to propose amendments to Bill C-25 to include mandatory and binding say on pay provisions to limit executive compensation.

Beyond the scope of Bill C-25, the federal government can and should also address out-of-control executive compensation through the tax system. I believe in giving credit where it is due, so I want to recognize that this government did modestly increase the top personal income tax rate. However, the government failed to close the loophole that allows half of stock options to be exempt from personal income tax. This stock option loophole delivers the largest benefit to highly paid CEOs and corporate executives, so we need to close that loophole to address executive compensation.

Something else that the federal government could do is to limit the amount of executive compensation that a corporation can deduct in calculating its corporate taxes.

The United States currently limits the amount of CEO compensation that can be deducted in calculating corporate taxes to $1 million. Unfortunately, this limit is not very effective in the United States because it does not apply to performance-based compensation, such as stock options. However, we could easily apply a limit to all forms of executive compensation and ensure that they cannot be deducted in calculating corporate income taxes.

In conclusion, out-of-control executive compensation is a significant source of worsening inequality, and is a substantial drain on our economy. The Government of Canada can and should address this problem by strengthening corporate governance through Bill C-25, and also by implementing progressive tax reforms.

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Regina—Lewvan for his excellent speech.

I would like him to comment further on what he said at the beginning of his speech about how long it takes for a CEO to earn as much money as an average employee in the same company.

We hear a lot about the day when Canadians have earned enough to cover their taxes. If I remember correctly, that is usually in July or August. Too little is being said about this other extremely important indicator. I think it has gotten worse over the years. In the 1970s, the gap between CEO pay and worker pay was much smaller.

I would like to give my colleague an opportunity to talk more about something that I think is important, even though most Canadians are unaware of it.

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his excellent question.

He is right: we make a big deal out of tax freedom day, a day mid-year by which, according to the Fraser Institute, the average Canadian has paid all of his or her taxes. There are a lot of problems with the way this indicator is calculated.

It is important to consider the value of another method, one developed by the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, which looks at how long it takes corporate executives to earn more than the average worker. It happens very early in the year, around noon on January 3, 2017.

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:10 a.m.

Bloc

Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank and congratulate my colleague from Regina—Lewvan for his excellent speech.

Income inequality is at the root of our economic problems in society, in my opinion. When the gap between the rich and everyone else becomes that wide, we end up with economic crises and all sorts of social problems. Addressing income inequality should be one of the top priorities of this House.

My colleague talked about a more technical aspect that the public does not seem so familiar with. In the case of capital gains, only half of net gains are taxable, but when it comes to work-related income, one's entire salary is taxable.

Can my colleague put a simple and concrete figure to this? For example, how much does a person earning $50,000 a year pay in tax? If that amount were a capital gain, how much would the person pay in tax?

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Joliette for his excellent question.

It is true that inequality is a major problem in our society and it spills over into health and crime. Many social problems stem from inequality.

He also mentioned a problem with our tax system, where, unlike other sources of income, only half of capital gains are taxed. This problem is more apparent when we look at how corporate executives are compensated. Often their capital gains are not really investments, but compensation. That money should be taxed in the same way that their employment income is taxed.

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the interesting statements that the member has made about this particular issue. I wonder if he might want to respond to a different group of working people who I know he cheers for, like the Regina, Saskatchewan football team, and many hockey players in the National Hockey League, who are paid more than CEOs. What does he think of those people who make a considerable amount of money more than the CEOs, in their profession?

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

NDP

Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK

Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned in my speech, the average of these top 100 CEOs makes $9 million a year, which is vastly more than the average player for the Saskatchewan Roughriders or in the Canadian Football League generally, so I do not necessarily accept the premise of the question, but I believe that there is a very similar problem with high pay for professional athletes. Part of the solution certainly is to increase the top personal income tax rate as the government has done.

The problem derives from the fact that people are being paid so much they do not really benefit from the additional money, it is all about relative position. We have to pay a hockey player a lot because other hockey players earn a lot, and certainly there are more equitable ways of distributing that money in our society.

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

NDP

François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise in the House today to take part in the debate on Bill C-25, an act to amend the Canada Business Corporations Act, the Canada Cooperatives Act, the Canada Not-for-profit Corporations Act, and the Competition Act.

It is always very important to review our laws in order to improve them, and to ensure that we make them even more fair and that they will foster gender parity. This bill is a first step in the right direction.

The NDP will support enhancing the diversity of boards of directors and democracy for shareholders.

However, once again the Liberals are not walking the talk. Bill C-25 is an attempt to solve the problems of gender parity. That will not happen if we only do what is being proposed. We are going to have to do more, and I know that the NDP member who sits on this committee will make the amendments needed to improve gender-parity in this area. That is what we are proposing.

This is only the second time in 40 years that the Canadian government has looked at corporate governance issues. As I said, this is no small matter, and it is good to review these things once in a while, so this is a step in the right direction.

The government's stated objective in introducing this legislation was this: the bill proposes changes meant to increase shareholder democracy and participation, support efforts to increase women's participation on corporate boards and senior management, and improve corporate transparency and business certainty while reducing the regulatory burden.

As I was saying, generally speaking, in its current form, the bill will increase shareholders' democratic participation in order to ensure greater understanding and, for instance, require annual elections for corporate directors, ensure that shareholders can vote for individual candidates, and require a majority voting standard, which are all interesting reforms. This is all through the lens of increasing representation of women on corporate boards and in senior management.

This might improve because businesses will have to explain why they do not have any female representation on their boards. That is a step in the right direction. However, everyone will agree that it is just a small step in improving gender equality.

Hundreds of people from Drummond have come to see me to request federal pay equity legislation. Unfortunately, as we know, the Liberal government said that it might wait until 2018 before implementing such a law, when pay equity should already be a fait accompli in Canada.

However, that is not yet the case, and unfortunately, the Liberals have put off their commitment to gender equality. That is coming from a government whose Prime Minister claims to be a feminist. It is not enough for the Prime Minister to claim to be a feminist. He and his government also need to take action to show that they are actually committed to gender equality. People have been disappointed in that regard.

This issue is so important that the NPD introduced Bill C-220, an act to amend the Financial Administration Act (balanced representation). The bill's sponsor is the member for Nanaimo—Ladysmith, who is doing an excellent job of promoting gender equality.

Feminism does not only involve women. All men and women must work together to achieve parity.

As I mentioned earlier, hundreds of citizens in my riding have come to see me to talk about this. They have come to demand more action from the government. I have tabled petitions on their behalf. We are looking for more concrete measures from the government on this issue.

I have spoken about Bill C-220 from my colleague from Nanaimo—Ladysmith. This was tabled in various forms by the NDP in the past, notably by former MP Anne-Marie Day. It is clearly a long-standing commitment on our part. Everyone voted in favour of the bill except the Conservatives. I don’t know why, but they were not in agreement.

That bill was aiming for balanced gender representation on the boards of directors of crown corporations. This is an area where the government can take direct action. Unfortunately this has yet to be done. However we continue to move ahead and we will not give up. We hope that this time, in this Parliament, members from all parties in the House will be able to put partisanship aside so that progress can be made on the issue of gender parity.

The member who spoke before me mentioned another very important issue, that of executive compensation. This bill calls for the introduction of a consultative vote on executive compensation, something the investor and shareholder community has been calling for.

Bill C-25 improves the election process for board of director positions by eliminating the list system and requiring that directors be elected on a majority. Indeed, many stakeholders have asked for more of a say on the compensation for executives. The NDP was very active on CEO compensation. Unfortunately, the government did not consider any of that when drafting this bill, which is very disappointing.

Given the situation of Canada’s citizens, the deduction for stock options is a horrible fiscal loophole which must absolutely be eliminated. It serves to give an unfairly high salary to the biggest CEOs, the richest people in our society. These people are taxed on only 50% of these earnings, which is totally unfair, since Canadian citizens doing normal work are taxed on 100% of their wages. This tax loophole exists only for the benefit of CEOs, the richest people in our society. We have to tackle this injustice.

That is why the NDP called for the elimination of the deduction for stock options in its electoral platform. This loophole allows the senior officers of corporations to pay only half the income tax on their compensation paid as stock options, or 50% of the prescribed rate. If a citizen from Drummond were to do that, the Canada Revenue Agency would call him right away and order him to pay his full income tax. Yet for executives this is a legal loophole that exists.

There are certain loopholes that are legal, but are totally unacceptable in our modern society. They are totally unfair, bordering on unethical. Unfortunately, they exist, and they are legal. The government is doing very little, if anything at all, about these tax loopholes. Since it was elected, we have not really seen any strong commitment from this government on closing these unfair loopholes. This is one of the worst examples of what is lacking in this bill.

This is a truly regressive loophole. Over 90% of the benefit goes to 1% of taxpayers, those who earn over $250,000 a year. Truly, it is a minority of the Canadian population that benefits from this. This deduction is bad for the economy, since it encourages CEOs to inflate stock prices in the short term through buybacks instead of investing in the economy. The government is losing close to $750 million a year as a result. Stock option deductions are totally unfair and unacceptable.

I have spoken of my fellow citizens who continue to be very active in Drummond. Hundreds have signed a petition to put an end to tax havens. Somewhat like tax loopholes, there are also tax havens the government needs to address. As the House knows, there are many ways to either facilitate the use of tax havens or curb it. Unfortunately, the steps recently taken only serve to facilitate it.

This situation is depriving the state of the funds it needs to carry out its social mission. According to Statistics Canada, tax avoidance is costing the government from $5 billion to $8 billion every year.

Fortunately, this phenomenon is now leading to some collective soul-searching. As I was saying, hundreds of my fellow citizens have signed a petition demanding that we take more action in this area. I have joined in by tabling that petition here in the House of Commons to signal the importance of combatting tax havens and tax loopholes.

It is extremely important to do this, because the public purse is being denied hundreds of millions of dollars by tax loopholes and billions of dollars by tax havens. Public services suffer as a result.

One need only consider health. In the next 10 years, there will be $36 billion in cuts. The cuts were started by the Conservatives; the Liberals had promised to abolish these unfair cuts affecting the most vulnerable in our society, those who have health problems. Unfortunately, the Liberals want to continue on this unfair path. It is totally unacceptable to continue these sorts of cuts.

It is a way of not investing in health, for the funds diverted from the public purse cannot be used for the well-being of the Canadian population.

In the end, the NDP wants the government to take concrete steps to bring about gender parity on Canadian boards of directors. Many researchers interested in gender equality in companies and in politics feel that the “comply or explain” model of disclosure that is found in Bill C-25 in its current form does not appropriately address the issue of gender parity. Therefore, as I was saying earlier, we are going to do everything we can to ensure that amendments are made to improve this situation.

Furthermore, New Democrats want the government to take advantage of the opportunity presented by Bill C-25 to resolve the issue of executive salaries by assigning shareholders a bigger role in the establishment of compensation. That would be a start.

I will conclude by saying that the bill is a step in the right direction. We are going to make amendments to it in committee. I hope that the Liberal and Conservative members of that committee will work in a collegial fashion to improve this bill for the well-being of our citizens. That is very important, and that is why we were elected.

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

December 9th, 2016 / 10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Mr. Speaker, that was an excellent speech, and I, in my collegial way, will ask my question.

I am very passionate, as well, about increasing the number of women in corporate positions and on boards, though my party is not in favour of quotas. Having worked in affirmative action in the U.S. when there were quotas, that is not really the right way to put women in those positions. It is more important to make sure that competency is part of that, and to have aggressive targets moving forward.

I wonder if the member could expand on how he would like to see us take that initiative forward to get more women on corporate boards.

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:30 a.m.

NDP

François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for her comment. Indeed, it is very important to work in a collegial fashion, and sometimes to put partisanship aside.

To that end, first of all, our Prime Minister, self-proclaimed feminist, needs to face up to his responsibilities. It is good that he should call himself a feminist, as should all men. They all have a responsibility to help bring about gender equality. However, when the time comes to enforce pay equity legislation, the Prime Minister shirks his responsibilities. That is why I say he should start by facing up to his responsibilities.

There is probably a way to make very reasonable amendments to this pay equity legislation, and I hope that we find a way to work together to that end in committee.

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:35 a.m.

Bloc

Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate my colleague from Drummond on his very fine speech.

He spoke of inequalities and of the tax system that favours the wealthy. He spoke of the completely legal use of tax havens by companies, as well as of the compensation of CEOs via stock options.

In the member’s opinion, why is nothing being done to resolve this persistent problem? Why are the elected members of the government party not working to change this situation? In his view, is it because the citizens of their ridings are in favour of the status quo?

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:35 a.m.

NDP

François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my hon. colleague. I know he works very hard on the issue of the injustice that results from tax havens.

Legislation to put an end to tax havens has been introduced in the House in the past. My constituents have signed hundreds of petitions calling on the government to do whatever it takes to limit the use of tax havens as much as possible, rather than facilitate it.

We saw who voted in the House in favour of a bill to reduce the number of tax havens. Unfortunately, the Liberals are the ones who want this to continue. It is really disappointing. We need to close the stock option loophole. I hope we can amend this bill to do just that.

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:35 a.m.

NDP

Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Drummond for his speech.

I want to come back to the issue of gender equality. Clearly, we could never disagree with that as a fundamentally good principle. In this case, however, it is time to move beyond the principle and actually do something about it.

When the Liberals were elected in October 2015, after we accepted defeat, I still remained hopeful. The Liberals promised a gender-balanced cabinet, and they kept that promise. However, if you look a little closer, all the major portfolios were given to men. That was an early example of their doublespeak.

One of our NDP colleagues introduced a private member's bill in the House meant to encourage the participation of women in politics and increase the number of women elected to the House of Commons. That bill was rejected.

We talked about tax fairness, but that was pushed back to 2018. Now the Liberals are talking about women's participation in corporate boards. A few years ago, I read a study that showed beyond any doubt that the more women a corporation had on its board, the more successful it was likely to be. There was a direct correlation.

This bill seems to be a step in the right direction, but it offers no guarantee that the government will finally stop talking about all the great things it is going to do and actually do those things. I would hope there is no room for partisanship on this issue, but is it not the opposition parties' role to propose amendments to make sure the Liberals walk the talk?

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:35 a.m.

NDP

François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague from Trois-Rivières for his question and his valuable comments.

This bill is a first attempt and a good start. It has some good stuff in it. We need to talk about gender equality. As I said earlier, feminism is not just for women. It is for everyone. There is no point calling oneself a feminist if one does not act accordingly.

I often joke with my wife about how I am a feminist. When she replies that I have a lot of room for improvement, I tell her, “My darling, you are right. I do need to become a better person”. The point is that there must be action, not just talk. As my colleague from Trois-Rivières said, pay equity is a good example of that. Why wait until 2018? There is no excuse, just a reason: lack of will.

This bill has room for improvement, and the NDP will be first in line to propose the amendments it needs.

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:35 a.m.

NDP

Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet NDP Hochelaga, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to come back to the topic of pay equity. I was working on this file a few years ago before I came to the House of Commons. Quebec has had pay equity legislation for a very long time, and it is enforcing it more and more, even though it took time to get to that point. However, there is no federal legislation in this regard. A committee examined the issue of pay equity and decided to once again postpone dealing with this issue.

I would like my colleague to elaborate on what impact this will have on Canada's working women. What message does this send about the Liberal government's position on Canada's working women?

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:40 a.m.

NDP

François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Hochelaga for her question. The work that she is doing on gender equality is very important, just as the work she is doing on social housing is essential to ensuring that everyone has fair access to housing.

Getting back to pay equity, sometimes I tell my constituents that the federal government still does not have any pay equity legislation. People are surprised. They do not think that makes any sense. The people of my riding have signed a number of petitions for me to present in the House of Commons. They believe that we need a law now, not 10 years from now. We are supposed to be more proactive than that. We were elected to take action.

I would like to again mention my colleague from Nanaimo—Ladysmith. She introduced Bill C-220, which seeks to amend the Financial Administration Act. The purpose of the bill is to achieve balanced representation in the number of women and men serving as directors on boards of crown corporations. The goal is to proceed gradually but quickly. It is not right that the number of women on these boards is still so low in a society where the percentage of women is higher than that of men.

I would like to again thank the member for Hochelaga for her question. We have to do more to achieve gender equality. We cannot wait until 2018. That is unacceptable.

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:40 a.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure that I will require the full 20 minutes at my disposal, but I did want to comment before the House on some aspects of Bill C-25, which we are discussing.

The first comes up often in conversations, and that is gender parity. We know that there is presently a marked imbalance on corporate boards, in both the private and public sectors. We also know that efforts are being made by the House to try to correct this situation.

We discussed, among other things, Bill C-220 sponsored by my colleague from Nanaimo—Ladysmith, who is building on another bill introduced by my former colleague, Anne-Marie Day, who represented the riding of Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles. I believe that this type of bill is necessary as it puts the spotlight on this imbalance, this inequality that can exist.

We are often asked why we are calling for a quota system, a gender parity system. I understand why the question is asked, but it needs to be reworded. It is not about setting aside competency. On the contrary, when we say that competency trumps diversity, we are saying that there are not enough women who have the necessary skills for these positions.

That is not the problem. The problem has more to do with lack of understanding and systemic discrimination against women regarding their ability to manage organizations.

Why do we need a gender parity system and why should we even try to enforce it, while still acknowledging the importance of competency? It is these prejudices and biases that blind us and prevent us from selecting skilled women to fill this type of position.

This morning I was listening to the radio on my way to Parliament. On Radio-Canada, they were talking about how gender parity was imposed on the improv world in Quebec. That might seem like a stretch from what we are talking about, but there is a direct correlation. The Ligue nationale d'improvisation in Quebec had a gender parity system that forced every troupe to have an equal number of women and men.

That measure gave female comedians' amazing but hitherto overlooked talent a platform. In the 1970s and 1980s, there were very few women in the comedy business, and the Ligue nationale d'improvisation played a critical role in raising the profile of female comedians. This morning's guest, Christian Vanasse, shared a list of 15 female comedians who made a name for themselves thanks to the Ligue nationale d'improvisation.

Still, the problem persists. Women are never selected to host galas. Even though they are on the scene and they have star power, gala organizers do not even consider them and always opt for male comedians to host these events.

Even the gender parity system designed to put women's talent in the spotlight in the comedy world will not fix anything without a shift in people's mentality. The same holds true for the field of administration.

Getting back to administration, Bill C-25 falls short because all it does is make companies talk to shareholders about diversity. That is completely out of touch with reality and what public and private administration need right now.

The aspects of Bill C-25 on governance are quite good. The move to eliminate directors being elected as a group is quite positive, as is holding annual elections. Ensuring that directors are elected to boards of directors by majority voting is another positive aspect.

There is another interesting aspect that has not really been debated in the House and that is the elimination of what are called bearer shares. These are shares where the shareholder is not identified on the share certificate. The shares and the vote belong to the stock certificate holder. The share is not necessarily registered in the name of the shareholder, the owner of the stock.

This measure, which is being somewhat overlooked in our debates, will allow for greater transparency with regard to governance and administration.

Aside from gender parity on boards of directors and within company management, the bill falls short in other aspects. Let us not forget that the changes we have before us come out of a three-year consultation that began in 2013. One aspect that has been discussed many times is not only the gap in compensation between shareholders and corporate executives, but also the fact that shareholders still cannot vote on and approve executive compensation at shareholder meetings. This is important because compensation is taken from the company's revenue and profits and therefore the returns that the shareholders can expect.

I think that is a major shortfall of this bill. That is why we are voting in favour of the bill at second reading but proposing amendments. If the bill is not improved, then voting in favour of it at second reading does not guarantee that we will be voting in favour of it at third reading.

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech.

I listened with care when the member talked about trying to get more women on boards. I was on the pay equity committee, and we talked about how there was already legislation in place in some provinces. It would be so easy to take a look at that. I do not understand why it takes so long to get legislation in place at the federal level.

Similarly, we had an initiative in status of women, and had a list of women who would be suitable for corporate boards, so nobody could ever say they could not find them. I am not sure why it is taking so long. Could the member comment on that?

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:50 a.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for that very relevant question. The governments have been very slow. I do not want to point fingers at either the current government, the previous Conservative government, or even the Liberal government before that. Ever since the struggle for pay equity began, successive governments have stood in the way.

I remember very well when Nycole Turmel, the former member for Hull-Aylmer, even had to go court over this when she headed the Public Service Alliance of Canada. That is what it took. She had to take the matter to court and jump through all the legal hoops just to get the government to accept a principle as basic as pay equity, in other words, women's right to earn the same as men for the same work. Not only did she have to go to court, but the government challenged it every step of the way. This was about the Public Service Alliance of Canada, but there was also of the issue of male and female postal workers and the Canadian Union of Postal Workers.

We now have a government that promised to respect pay equity, although it is putting it off as long as possible, until two or three years from now. If the government really took this issue seriously, it could be resolved, just as it has been in several provinces. This government could definitely be taking this matter a little more seriously.

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:50 a.m.

NDP

Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK

Mr. Speaker, we have talked a fair bit about inequality between men and women in the workplace and on corporate boards, but I wonder if my colleague from Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques could also speak a bit about another aspect of Bill C-25, which is inequality between CEOs and their employees. What type of negative consequences does that growing inequality have for our society and what kinds of policies could the government implement to address it?

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:50 a.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question, which certainly gets people talking.

During his speech, he mentioned the annual study conducted by the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, which determines at what point corporate CEOs have earned the annual income or average annual salary of one of their employees. The Fraser Institute likes to talk about tax freedom, which generally occurs in July or August. However, it does not take into account all of the benefits people get in return for paying taxes, because there are benefits. Such organizations often ignore that fact.

When CEOs are able to earn an average employee's salary by January 3 at noon, that is a problem not only in terms of equity but also in terms of respect for the labour force, which is extremely important to a company's profitability. Profitability is what leads to increased earnings for CEOs. However, it is also important for our society as a whole because people who earn the average salary in a company will spend a greater share of their income than the CEO. They will be able to save less because they need more of their income for everyday living expenses. They therefore contribute a lot of money to the economy.

Meanwhile, CEOs either save their money, spend it on luxury goods, or invest it abroad, which is much less beneficial to the economy. We are talking about huge amounts of money that are being invested this way.

I therefore believe that there is work to be done to close the gap between the salaries of CEOs and employees and bring it down to a more reasonable level.

Canada Business Corporations ActGovernment Orders

10:50 a.m.

NDP

Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague, who is our finance critic, for his very enlightening comments. The question I would like to ask him concerns an example from Quebec, but one that could probably occur in many provinces.

What are the reasons for Quebec's success in this equity process? The Liberal government has 40 MPs from Quebec, and some have important portfolios in cabinet. Why has Quebec's success or that of other provinces not served as a catalyst to make this government take action more quickly than what it is proposing?

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10:55 a.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Trois-Rivières for his question, to which I do not have an answer right now. I would like to hear what government members have to say.

It is not as though this were a partisan issue. Pay equity is a straightforward issue. A woman must earn the same as a man for work of equal value, which is currently not the case. By refusing to acknowledge pay equity for at least another two or even three years, especially in the public service, they are perpetuating an illegitimate, unethical, and unfair situation. Everyone in the House recognizes that.

In light of the number of statements and motions in the House denouncing pay equity, it makes no sense that we must wait two to three years to correct this situation, which everyone recognizes as illegitimate and unfair. This majority government had promised to fix this problem.