Debates of Feb. 1st, 2016

Income Tax Act

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Madam Speaker, across my riding, people are really struggling. We have patchwork employment, families with multiple part-time jobs, and seniors living off small part-time jobs to supplement their tiny pensions. In fact, many seniors are facing challenges of homelessness, which we have never seen before in our area.

The TFSA contribution at $10,000 is not helping these members of my community. In fact, the increase to the maximum would have deprived the treasury of billions of dollars in the coming years. Do the Conservatives still believe that our grandchildren should pay for their bad decisions?

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Madam Speaker, the fact is, the government putting the people of Canada into successive deficits that lead to structural debt, as the Liberals are trying to put into law, will indeed drive our youth, our future generations, into irreparable debt.

Lower taxes, less government interference in the daily lives of people, and encouraging economic development is how we will lift everyone out of poverty.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member opposite for her speech. It was certainly full of a lot of passion and a lot of partisan rhetoric. However, let me state for the record that they had eight straight deficits, two recessions, and an economy that is absolutely in the tank.

I wonder if the member would probably blame the snowstorms in Atlantic Canada this weekend on the Liberals also.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Madam Speaker, with reference to the cold, the increase in costs due to such related weather in the future is what is going to drive Canadians even further into the hole. We have not even had the budget yet, and already the Liberals are increasing taxes. What we know is that with the architect of the greed energy act of Ontario now calling the shots here in Ottawa, every last Canadian is going to have to pay more down the greed energy alley and be at an even higher deficit.

[Michael Levitt, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, before I begin, I would like to mention that I will be splitting my time with the hon. member for Edmonton Centre.

It is my honour to rise in the House today in debate for the first time as the member of Parliament for York Centre. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the residents of my riding for entrusting me with such an important responsibility to speak and vote on their behalf in this chamber. I would also like to thank all the volunteers and supporters, and especially my family, who have been so supportive in sharing the vision that all of us here share for a better, fairer, more prosperous Canada.

I have walked through every neighbourhood and talked to tens of thousands of residents of York Centre. People from all over Canada and around the world call my riding home. What I heard from so many people of all backgrounds was that making ends meet is becoming increasingly difficult. The cost of living is rising faster than incomes. Indeed, middle-class income growth has been and is still stagnant. Middle-class families drive our economy, and right now they are stuck in neutral. That is why I would like to take this time to express my support for the government's middle-class tax cut introduced in December and explain why it would help grow the economy.

As we embark on an agenda of economic growth and long-term prosperity, there is no doubt that we are facing considerable headwinds. Globally, we continue to experience what Christine Lagarde, the International Monetary Fund managing director, famously called the “new mediocre”.

In its latest economic outlook in January, the IMF expected global growth to pick up modestly to 3.4% in 2016 and 3.6% in 2017. This is down 0.2 percentage points from both 2016 and 2017 compared to its October 2015 world economic outlook. Although the recent performance of the U.S. economy is encouraging, the European and Chinese economies are still facing challenges.

Global crude oil prices remain less than half of what they were in mid-2014, reflecting softening demand and a global oil surplus. What is happening beyond our borders has real and tangible consequences for all of us. In Canada, our economic performance in the first half of 2015 was poor, mainly due to the collapse in oil prices in 2014.

Last April the government projected that the price of oil per barrel would reach $71 U.S. by the end of this year. As I speak, oil is trading at less than half that amount. We now know that growth will be lower than was expected in the last budget projections. This, of course, has important implications for our currency and our fiscal situation. The good news is that the IMF, in its latest economic outlook released on January 19, expects growth in Canada to pick up over the next two years relative to 2015. We also maintain an enviable position with a low debt-to-GDP ratio, abundant natural resources, and one of the world's most educated workforces. Keeping our debt-to-GDP ratio on a downward path throughout this government's mandate remains fundamental to our economic vision for Canada, alongside balancing the budget. To achieve this, our policies will strike a balance between fiscal responsibility and controlled investments that result in a smaller debt-to-GDP ratio, which promotes economic growth.

One of the most important components is restoring middle-class economic progress, the backbone of our economy. That is why one of the government's first orders of business was to table a ways and means motion to cut taxes for the middle class. That was the right thing to do and the smart thing to do for our economy.

The proposed middle-class tax cut and accompanying proposals would help make the tax system fairer so that all Canadians would have the opportunity to succeed and prosper.

Specifically, the bill proposes to reduce the second personal income tax rate to 20.5% from 22%, introduce a 33% personal income tax rate on individual taxable income above $200,000, return the tax-free savings account annual contribution limit to $5,500, and reinstate indexation of the TFSA and annual contribution limit.

Let me very quickly expand on these three points.

First, the personal income tax rate changes took effect on January 1. It is expected that about nine million Canadians would benefit from this measure in 2016. Individuals would see an average tax reduction of $330 each year, and couples would see an average tax reduction of $540 each year.

Second, the government is introducing a new personal income tax rate of 33% that would apply to individual taxable incomes above $200,000. This means that only Canada's very top income earners are expected to pay more taxes as a result of the proposed changes. As with other thresholds, the $200,000 tax threshold will be indexed to inflation.

Third, the government will be returning the tax-free savings account annual contribution limit to $5,500, also effective January 1 of this year. Let me reassure all members of the House that the change is not retroactive. The TFSA annual contribution limit for 2015 would remain at $10,000. Returning the TFSA annual contribution limit to $5,500 is consistent with making the tax system fairer and helping those who need it the most. When combined with other registered savings plans, a $5,500 TFSA annual contribution limit gives most individuals the opportunity to meet their ongoing savings needs in a tax-efficient manner. Indexation of the TFSA annual contribution limit would also be reinstated so that the annual limit remains at its real value over time.

Finally, before I conclude, I would like to highlight some of the other measures that are included in today's legislation.

Today's bill proposes to change the current flat top rate taxation rules applicable to trusts to use the new rate of 33%. The bill proposes to set the tax on split income to the new rate of 33%. It would amend the charitable donation tax credit to allow higher income donors to claim a 33% tax credit on the portion of donations made from income that is subject to the new 33% marginal tax rate, and it would increase the special refundable tax and the related refund rate imposed on investment income of private corporations to reflect the new proposed 33% personal income tax rate.

Going forward, the government will introduce proposals in the budget to create a new Canada child benefit payment, which would begin in July of this year. In addition to replacing the universal child care benefit, which is not tied to income, the proposed Canada child tax benefit would simplify and consolidate existing child benefits. It is also targeted to those who need it the most. By simplifying and consolidating these benefits, people will understand how to access and take advantage of them. That is why the tax credit was introduced initially.

All of these initiatives demonstrate that our sights are clearly set on the future. This legislation would strengthen the middle class by putting more money in the pockets of Canadians to save, invest, and grow our economy. More broadly, it would help grow our economy in the context of a difficult global economic climate so that all Canadians can benefit. Therefore, I encourage all members of the House to support this legislation.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Madam Speaker, the increased TFSA amounts that our government introduced encouraged people to save and prepare for their own future and their own retirement. The limits or amounts were realistic for the people who could save. Not everyone is able to save through workplace agreements.

Do the member and his government not realize they can reduce the burden on future governments by providing means and encouragement for savings through the increased TFSAs for those who are able to prepare for their own retirement, or will the government choose to discourage personal savings and make far more people reliant on governments of the future?

[Michael Levitt, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, our government is reducing the TFSA annual contribution limit because we want to make these types of programs more accessible to all Canadians. We believe that as of 2013, only 6.7% of eligible Canadians maximized their TFSA, and that was at the $5,500 limit. Clearly, increasing the limit to $10,000 will not increase the number of those contributing.

We want to make sure that more Canadians are given the advantage of having tax-efficient savings for the future, and we believe this is the best way to achieve that.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Madam Speaker, in my riding, many of my constituents are increasingly frustrated watching logs barged away from our communities. Forestry, a backbone of our riding, has been hit again and again with no commitment to secondary manufacturing. Those good-paying jobs float away and many of my constituents are working more and making less.

The Liberal plan will assure that those making between $89,000 to $200,000 will receive the maximum tax reduction. That will not help most of my constituents. Is this the Liberals' definition of middle class?

[Michael Levitt, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, we have been very clear that this is the first phase of a number of actions that will help those striving to reach the middle class. Our Canada child benefit will help numerous Canadians when it is introduced in July. It will certainly bring over 315,000 children out of poverty.

In addition, with regard to the comment made about jobs, a huge part of our plan is infrastructure spending, which will be happening across Canada and which I am certain will benefit many of those in the hon. member's riding as we seek to bring Canada back to economic stability.

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, I want to commend the hon. member on an excellent and very thorough analysis of the current economic situation.

Could he enlighten the House why he believes the reduction in the TFSA contribution limit is important?

[Michael Levitt, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, when we look at the number of Canadians who were investing in the TFSA and reflect back to 2013, we see that only 6.7% of eligible Canadians maximized their TFSA. We want to ensure that tax-efficient savings programs are available to benefit all Canadians.

Clearly, raising the limit to $10,000 will not make it more accessible to Canadians who are not currently participating, when the maximum is only $5,500. This is something that our government will work on and make sure that all Canadians are getting the benefit of these types of programs.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Madam Speaker, I hear the term “middle class” repeated about 100,000 times a day. It is “middle class, middle class, middle class”. How do the liberals define middle class? Is is $40,000, $50,000, or $60,000 a year?

Would the member tell all Canadians how the Liberals define middle class and who is considered middle class?

[Michael Levitt, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, both during the campaign and even just this past weekend when I was back in my riding, the residents of York Centre expressed to me that they need help, hope, and leadership from this government, to help them get back on a sound financial footing, a footing that was not left so sound by the previous Conservative government. Our government is committed to that, and that is what we are doing for Canadians.

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Madam Speaker, I have the honour of speaking about the tax cut for the middle class, which will help millions of Canadians. We are determined to strengthen the middle class and help it grow because a strong middle class is key to a healthy economy and gives all Canadians a real and fair chance to succeed.

That is exactly what the bill before the House today will do. This bill reduces the tax rate from 22% to 20.5% for Canadians who earn between $45,282 and $90,563 in 2016. What is more, it introduces a new 33% income tax rate on income over $200,000, in other words, the higher income brackets in Canada.

Effective January 1, the government is making it possible for approximately nine million Canadians to keep more of their income each year. This is the smart thing to do and the measure is fair. Members will have the opportunity to hear more about this from other stakeholders in committee.

We already know that the response to the measures announced in December was favourable. We also know that the tax cut for the second personal income tax bracket will not solve all of the problems Canadians are facing today. That is why the government's commitment to be transparent and consult with Canadians will take on increasing importance. The government is taking this approach because it recognizes that it does not have a monopoly on good ideas.

The minister and the parliamentary secretary recently travelled across the country to talk to Canadians directly about what measures the government could take to help the middle class. They met with indigenous, business and cultural leaders to hear what Canadians had to say and initiate discussions to find practical solutions to the problems they are facing.

In my riding, Edmonton Centre, nine consultations were held on various round table topics in order to gain a clear understanding of what the people of Edmonton are concerned about. National consultations continued online and are still taking place today. The response rate and comments received show that Canadians strongly support the government's efforts. Since the online consultation began, the website has received more than 20,000 visits, and more than 2,500 separate observations have been submitted by individuals and focus groups.

The government also reached out to young Canadians by holding three separate live chat sessions with university students. Those sessions gave the government invaluable insight into the concerns of young Canadians all across the country. A total of 8,000 people participated in the live event on Facebook organized by Dalhousie University, and over 1,000 people have replayed it online.

I am encouraged that young Canadians have found new reasons to become engaged with their government. More than 80,000 people have engaged with us through various live events. That is almost the entire population of Prince George. Throughout the consultation process, Canadians confirmed that they want a government that will strengthen the middle class and help those working hard to join it.

I would love to focus only on the positive things we heard, but that would not reflect all the opinions and comments that were provided. For example, the Canadian Taxpayers Federation shared its concerns over what impact returning the tax-free savings account annual contribution limit to $5,500 might have on individuals' future savings. It does not like the new income tax bracket.

The government respects the opinion of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, but does not agree that roughly 18% of the almost 11 million Canadians with a TFSA had made the maximum contribution to their accounts by the end of 2013. What is more, the government is reinstating indexation of the TFSA annual contribution limit so that the annual limit maintains its real value over time.

The measures in this bill will contribute to strengthening the middle class. That is the Government of Canada's priority. It has become increasingly clear through the pre-budget consultations that Canada's economic outlook has changed since the election.

This has only bolstered the government's resolve to accomplish what we were elected to do.

What is even more important is that discussions with fellow Canadians have given us new insights and allowed us to fine-tune measures that will be included in the next federal budget. The government's plan will be realistic, sustainable, prudent and transparent. The plan will also include other information on measures that will steer Canada towards a more prosperous, inclusive and sustainable economic future.

The government's plan includes introducing proposals to create a new Canada child benefit. Our objective is to start benefit payments in July 2016. This proposed benefit will simplify and consolidate current child benefits. It will replace the universal child care benefit, which is not income tested. The new child benefit will better target those who need it the most.

The government's approach to consultation recognizes that co-operation is essential in order to have real change. The government undertook to listen to MPs from all parties, have discussions and collaborate with them, and identify solutions in order to prevent the needless escalation of conflict. It has already shown its willingness to do so.

We have already heard from Canadians and many members of other parties, and therefore I look forward to discussing and debating the best way to serve Canadians.

Before my time runs out, I would like to take a minute to speak to the MPs present and Canadians at home today. This bill's proposed tax cut will help millions of Canadians. This tax cut will give middle class Canadians more income to spend and invest, which will result in economic growth. I am eager to hold discussions with my colleagues from all parties in order to find solutions to the problems Canadians are facing. I very much hope that they will support this initiative.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Madam Speaker, my colleague asked a previous member what he termed a very simple question, and I would like to repeat that question because, to the best of my knowledge, that question was not answered, not even in simple terms.

The previous speaker was asked what amount of salary the average middle-class family earns. My colleague spoke quite eloquently, referring to the middle class many times. I would suggest that he probably has some figure in his mind that he could impart to us on this side of the House to tell us the exact range of numbers. I will even give him a break and ask him to give us a range of numbers that would fit middle-class salaries.

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Madam Speaker, what we are most proud of as a government when it comes to Bill C-2 is the fact that we are giving a break to the middle class across the country and we are going to allow nine million Canadians to have more money in their pockets at the end of the day.

If I may be more precise, we are taking the tax rate for Canadians making between $45,282 and $90,563 from 22% to 20.5%, and we are simply asking Canadians who make more than $200,000 to pay slightly more in tax. That is a progressive way to make sure all Canadians can make ends meet.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Madam Speaker, we seem to have picked up on a bit of a theme here today, when time and time again my friends across the way are asked for a simple definition of the middle class. I do not know if cookies are being handed out in the lobby to Liberals who mention the middle class more than anyone else. They like to mention it quite a bit but seem to have some strange difficulty in defining it.

The Prime Minister was asked this question just outside the chamber by the press at one point, and he gave a bit of a ham-fisted answer. He said the definition is those who are able to live on their investments. It was then pointed out to him that people who are retired live on their investments and that might not make them wealthy, so he struggled to find a definition for the middle class. If the entire Liberal budget and this entire bill is somewhat predicated and focused on serving the middle class, in the spirit of openness and transparency, it would do us well for my colleague across the way to simply define it.

I will ask him this as a subsequent question. Once he has defined what the middle class actually is, can he tell us why people earning between $48,000 a year and $62,000 a year are going to receive $50 as a benefit from this Liberal tax scheme, while those earning as much as $211,000 a year will earn 16 times more from this Liberal tax plan? Is that the middle class that Liberals are aiming it: folks earning north of $200,000 a year?

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Madam Speaker, I am glad the member likes cookies, as do I, although in moderation so I can continue to fit into my suits.

What is important for the debate today is to know that nine million Canadians will benefit more from a Liberal government in office making sure we are helping the middle class make ends meet.

When it comes to our work in December, when it comes to the Canada child benefit, we will help 315,000 children out of poverty through our new child care tax benefit. That is the kind of number and the kind of analysis that warrants the attention of this chamber.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary for Sport and Persons with Disabilities]

Madam Speaker, I thank the member for his speech.

When the bill was introduced, my colleague said that we had been clear. We consider the middle class to be people who earn between $45,000 and $90,000 a year. My colleagues across the way seem to be quite taken by that.

Can my colleague talk to us about what we are doing for the less fortunate, about our action plan and about what we have already started doing for those in need?

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Madam Speaker, I thank my esteemed colleague for his question.

Canadians across the country will see us introduce a wide variety of legislation in the House to help the less fortunate. For example, we will increase the guaranteed income supplement for seniors.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Madam Speaker, I will split my time with the member for Cowichan—Malahat—Langford.

Madam Speaker, I join this debate with some enthusiasm. I think we have struck upon something here today in the Liberals' centrepiece in their tax promises to Canadians. Bill C-2 attempts to do two things. One is to address the TFSA, the tax-free savings accounts, and bring the limit back down to $5,500. Two is somewhat regressive changes to the tax code that the Liberals are bringing in after so much talk and time spent on their efforts to help the middle class. The single-best answer we have had from a Liberal today, in an attempt to define the “middle class” is he said that it was not up to him to define it. Then he went on to repeat how much help the Liberals were giving this class of Canadians that Liberals refuse to define.

If anybody else finds that odd and somewhat worrisome, let us look through the tax plan that the Liberals have put forward. Revenue Canada breaks down those filing taxes into five groups: the bottom 20%; second 20%; third 20%; fourth 20%; and up to the very top tier of 20% income earners.

Let us just take the middle group. That is an odd way to define “middle class”, to use the middle group. That group, under this Liberal tax plan, gets very little. Perhaps that is why Liberals do not want to actually define the middle class. If they just keep referring to it over and over again, Canadians who are in the middle class, in fact, might think that the Liberals are talking about them when looking at this tax plan.

Let us look at those Canadians who are earning what might seem as middle-class money. Let us take one group that can be defined and get specific. Those earning between $48,000 and $62,000 get $50 under this Liberal tax plan. Perhaps Liberals do not think those are middle-class Canadians, but I am going to walk out on a limb and say they are. They might think that is nice. However, one increase in energy bills in northern British Columbia will take care of that $50.

Now, those earning quite a bit more, up in the top 20%, let us say, between $166,000 and $211,000, will get more than $800 back, not $50.

Liberals can stand in the House today and argue that somebody making $200,000 a year needs the 800 bucks. I know some of my Conservative colleagues used to make the same arguments, but at least they had the effrontery to do it.

What worries me is that the Liberals continue to reference a group of Canadians without ever defining it, hoping that Canadians might be tricked into thinking that they might be talking about them. When they get their tax returns back they will look at $50 extra and ask what happened to that big middle-class tax help that was meant to come. What happened to that election that we watched week after week where the Prime Minister, who is now being echoed by his MPs here in the House, talked incessantly about the middle class and yet is unwilling, unable to define it? Then, when the proof comes in the pudding, when it is time to actually see what those in the middle-income brackets get out of this, it is little or nothing.

In fact, for 18 million Canadians who will file taxes next year, do members know what they get out of this Liberal tax plan? Nothing. Not a thing.

Liberals says they are helping out so many people. This is actually a trick.

We have to give credit where credit is due. This is something Conservatives used to do. They would throw out a big number and say “We're helping eight million, nine million people. Aren't we wonderful?” They would pull a muscle patting themselves on the back so often. We would say, let us see how that actually proportions out. Is it an equal amount of help across those eight or nine million people? Well, no, of course not. The help sloshes up toward the upper end. It gets better the more you make. That is the way the Canadian tax system works. If the Liberals make the cut that they are proposing to do in Bill C-2, those earning north of $200,000 would see a benefit of close to $815. Those who are not fortunate, not able to earn that kind of money, would see something in the order of $50 or, if they are really unfortunate, nothing.

We have to place this into some context, as some of my Liberal colleagues speaking today have.

The economy is in significant and serious trouble, I would argue, as many have in part, due to previous policies by Conservative and Liberal governments. Over the past decade, we have lost half a million value-added jobs in factories and plants that were good family-supporting jobs. Half a million jobs disappeared over that time and there was not a whisper of worry from the previous government and not much from the Liberals when they sat in opposition. They said this is transition.

I suppose it looked like a cute turn of phrase for the Prime Minister's speech writers when he was in Davos, suggesting that we are known for our resources, but we will leave that behind and we will be known for our resourcefulness, as if somehow those two things do not go together, that being resourceful with our resources should be the primary role and governing directive of any government in a country as wealthy as Canada with our endowment of such natural resources. Somehow the Prime Minister and his speech writers wanted to contradict those two concepts of our economy, that it is no good to be known for our resources, tut-tut, that is where we get our hands dirty. We will be known for our resourcefulness and our creativity. That is something counterpoised.

I live in a resource-dependent part of this country. I would suggest that the Canadian economy, as is being borne witness every day on the stock exchange, is still somewhat reliant on the natural resource sector. I hope the Prime Minister has walked some of this stuff back. Sometimes these cute phrases work so well in the drafting room, until they are put out and real people actually hear them and say, wait a second, is he talking about me? Is he talking about my job in the forestry sector or the mining sector, in the petroleum and gas sector, in the green energy sector? I am being resourceful with our resources and I would like to continue to be. That was not a lot of help.

Now let us talk about something that is good. It is important to be hopeful and optimistic and see where work hard will get us. The rolling back of the TFSA limit from $10,000 to $5,500 is important simply because this exercise that the Conservatives undertook was incredibly expensive to the treasury in a very short period of time. We know that the people who were able to max out at $5,500 a year and certainly people who had $10,000 extra at the end of the year burning a hole in their pocket were not the middle class, were not certainly the lower end of the economy, they were folks of means.

We also know from the finance department's own research on this that with the introduction of the TFSA in 2009, simply another retirement and savings vehicle, retirement rates did not actually increase. If we bring in a new policy and it does not do what it is meant to do, then it is worth reconsidering. The government should be credited for at least doing that. A price tag of $13 billion to the treasury in 15 short years is expensive. If it is not helping retirement as so many of my Conservative colleagues said it would, then this is a problem.

Picking up from a government, as the Liberals are now doing, that blew $150 billion on top of the national debt, lost half a million manufacturing jobs in the process, and left a very fragile and weakened economy, it is very important to define the middle class if we are going to help it. If a doctor cannot actually name the problem, I would be pretty suspicious of any prescription that I got from that doctor. Here we are with Liberal after Liberal getting the term “middle class” in as often as they can, peppering it through their speeches. Yet in very simple direct questioning one after another, the best answer we have had from a Liberal so far is that “it is not my job to define”. Fascinating. I guess it is just a Liberal job to talk about it.

If we are unwilling to define it, that causes a lot of people consternation and here is why.

When we break down and get into the actual details of what the Liberals are proposing, the vast majority of benefit is going to those who need it the least. A vast majority of Canadians, some 18 million tax filers this year, will get nothing from the Liberal government and are only going to be disappointed. Expectations are high. The red team across the way made a lot of promises, cited time and time again how help is on its way. After the many dark years under the previous government, here was a new government coming in that understood the middle class. While the leader did not come from the middle class, he understood what it was to pay electricity bills and pick up the kids from school. They were going to go ahead and bring something in that would actually help Canadians struggling to make ends meet.

When we look at the actual numbers we realize that those at the very top end will get 16 times more benefit out of this Liberal plan than those in the middle, which is an infinite amount more than those at the very bottom.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, I always appreciate comments from my NDP colleague. Having said that, there is a bit of a stretch in what he is trying to portray here.

Within the throne speech and this legislation, the Government of Canada is setting the stage for what will see the middle class do quite well. My colleague seems to be focusing on one aspect of the plan and then embellishing on it, much like he talked about with respect to the manufacturing industry. Truth be known, during the last 10 years we saw an excess of 300,000 jobs lost in that industry. When we were in opposition we fought hard for those positions.

Would the member acknowledge that this is just one part of the overall plan that would see the middle class in Canada supported by this government?

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Madam Speaker, I do not know if by fighting hard my friend from Winnipeg North means when the Prime Minister, then in opposition, went down to Southwestern Ontario and said these manufacturing jobs are gone and they are not coming back. Is that what he meant by fighting hard? It was closer to half a million jobs that were lost. Math is important when it comes to those value-added sectors that have been so devastated by government policy or lack of enthusiasm.

My friend says I am over-focusing on the centerpiece of the government's bill. If the Liberals did not want a lot of attention on this so-called tax cut for the middle class, then they should not have talked about it so much. If they were going to come out with a plan that would give $800 in tax relief to those earning $200,000 a year and they believe those individuals are the middle class, then they should have said so. If they were going to give $50 to those earning $50,000 a year, then say so.

I am only reading what is in the government's bill. If the member does not like the comments in respect to what is in the bill, then the government should not have written this piece of legislation. It should have brought us a better one, a progressive piece of tax legislation.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Madam Speaker, it is not very often that I agree with the member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley but he did raise some important points in this debate today.

We have talked clearly about how the Liberals promised that this would be a revenue-neutral plan, that the rich would pay more and the middle class would pay less. I am going to use an example. Using the member's numbers, if a husband and wife were both members of Parliament they would get a $1,600 tax break. Not only would they be getting a tax break, but it would be going to the debt of our children and grandchildren.

Does the member have some idea as to who is going to ultimately pay this debt that the Liberals will be creating?

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Madam Speaker, the scenario would greatly benefit those earning quite a bit more. The scenario of a member of Parliament and his or her spouse, a husband and wife, a husband and a husband, a wife and a wife, whatever the scenario might be because it is 2016, is one of our concerns. We raised it around income splitting. When we started to look through the analysis of who would benefit more from this, from the parliamentary budget officer on down, basic flaws were found within the policy design.

Instead of doing nothing for 18 million people, the NDP moved a proposal to what the Liberals have brought forward here. If the Liberals are truly open to helping out Canadians, our single amendment would allow 80% of all Canadians to access some benefit from what the Liberals are proposing. We will see how it works out at committee. Jack Layton used to tell us in this place that it is not just good enough to oppose, we have to propose. The proposal would make what is a bit of a ham-fisted approach of trying to help out middle- and lower-income Canadians into something that would be a lot more equitable. It would help out 80% of all tax filers, particularly those at the lower end. We will see what we get when we get to committee.