Debates of Feb. 16th, 2016

Canada Labour Code

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Madam Speaker, oftentimes in this place we refer to industry or we refer to the labour movement or organized labour when we are discussing policy. Certainly industry is an important terminology. We across the aisle come up with policy or try to come up with policy that encourages industry to develop, because industry creates jobs for Canadians, and oftentimes when we refer to organized labour or unions, we have to acknowledge that there has been a significant impact of organized labour in the western world over time in ensuring fairness and equality for workers' treatment. However, with respect to this bill here, I would like to pause and not talk about industry and not talk about organized labour, but actually talk about workers. I think we have to do that because of where we are in Canada right now.

I cannot get up in this place and talk about any sort of policy related to workers or the economy without bringing it back to my riding. I cannot stress enough how important it is for everyone in this House to understand that there are more than 100,000 people who have been laid off in the energy sector in Alberta and what that means to the Canadian economy. These are not just numbers. They are not just statistics on unemployment. They are people in my riding. They are our brothers and our sisters. They are family members. They are our neighbours. They are people's husbands and wives. They are accountants. They are administrative professional. They are rig hands. They are every single part of the economy, and they pay taxes. They try to make ends meet for their kids.

If we are going to talk about organizations that help create jobs or help support workers, we first have to focus on workers themselves. I think it is important to do that to reframe this debate today, because this is the first piece of legislation that the government has put out in the House with regard to supporting workers.

My colleague who just gave a speech talked about how unions were the voice of the regular working family. I would like to think that we here are also the voice of regular working families.

Therefore, if we look at the first piece of legislation that the government has put in place to support workers, what would it do?

We have 100,000-plus people in Alberta whose severance pay is running out. This does not even take into consideration the contractors who have been laid off, the ripple effects down through the service industry. There are a lot of people out of work in my riding, and the first piece of legislation that the Government of Canada puts forward with regard to workers would do the following: it would remove transparency measures for union leaders to report how they are spending their members' union dues; and it would remove the secret ballot provision for union formation.

I could spend the duration of my time talking about that particular issue and its merits. I know that has been debated over and over again.

However, I have to tell members that it does not cut it for me to go back to my riding and report in a householder or in a town hall meeting what the government is doing, what the government's priority is for those who are out of work and for those who know they are going to be in the next round layoffs, that the priority is those two things. Is the government kidding me? That is not going to get somebody's job back.

This is the government's first piece of legislation. There are so many things it could have done for workers, for people, not for industry, not for big labour, but for workers, the people who are actually out of work in my province.

It could ensure that we keep taxes low. We know that, when we have a low-tax system, we see the economy grow because people have more in their wallets to spend, to make ends meet. We know that companies have more flexibility and freedom to be able to make investments, which create jobs. We could keep taxes low.

Are we doing that? No, we are not. We are hearing signals that the government wants to increase taxes on job-creating companies while people are out of work and cannot make ends meet. We know that the government has signalled that it wants to increase CPP premiums. I do not know about other members, but I can certainly tell them right now that it does not help somebody who is out of work or who is looking for a job. The last thing people need is more money coming off their paycheques every week. I certainly am not comfortable telling people in my riding that is what the government is doing and it is a fantastic thing that is going to create jobs.

The government has also signalled that it is going to increase EI premiums. What would that do and why is that important for workers? Once again, it will be more money off their paycheques. Anyone running a small business or looking to create jobs in the economy right now will have to pay more premiums. Does anyone think that will facilitate more job creation? No. It is crazy. Anyone who has looked at those types of programs in this economy has said that it will put a further chill on the economy.

These are the government's actual priorities for people who are out of work in my riding right now, and it is worth getting mad about. Furthermore, to rub salt into this wound, the government has added a layer of regulatory uncertainty. That is a very unsexy way of saying that it has made it more difficult for the energy sector to do business.

The government has signalled in recent weeks that rather than having a clearly defined arm's-length process in which it will rely on a third party and scientific evidence to make an assessment of a major energy project, which would create jobs, the government has said that it is going to rely on a political process. Again, this is not about driving just to a yes, but to a yes or a no under set parameters, where industry knows what is happening in a scientific review process, so that investments can be made with some level of certainty.

The government is not sure what is going to happen. If it goes through with this new process it is putting in place, it may or may not accept that recommendation.

What do members think that would do for the average worker, since we are talking about workers here? It means that we do not know if these projects are going to start one way or another, even if they meet the parameters that have been laid out by the government. It is like holding your finger in the wind and seeing which way the popular winds are blowing. That is not a way to create jobs. That is not a way to stand up for workers. That is the government's priority.

The Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Labour, who tabled this as her first bill and priority to “protect workers”, has said nothing about attracting or retaining skilled labour in my province as it goes through a major period of unemployment. She has not talked about the fact that when skilled labourers have to leave because they cannot make ends meet in my province, it will affect future increases in investment and job creation down the road. No, she tabled this bill to take away secret ballots. That is the priority. That is crazy. I cannot understand this.

I am standing in this place and making this speech. My stepfather is an electrician and a long-time union member. My brother-in-law is an electrician and a union member. I was a union member. One of my first jobs was in a union. I have managed in a union situation. I understand what it is like to be a unionized worker and to have family members who are in a unionized environment. At the end of the day, what is important is people having jobs, and I have heard absolutely nothing from the government in the past weeks in Parliament showing how the government is going to help grow the economy. In fact, it has been quite the opposite.

What I find very interesting in my personal journey here is that the minister who tabled this piece of legislation as the government's top priority for workers was the NDP provincial minister of industry when I was 19 years old in Manitoba and looking at where I would start my career. That was the beginning of an interesting period for Manitoba.

It is amazing how history repeats itself. If we are talking about who is the voice for the regular working family and workers in Canada, I hope we can send a message to Canadians that the government putting this forward as its top priority, when there are so many other things that need to be done in this country and in my riding for the people who are out of work, is absolutely ridiculous. It is crazy.

I will not stand by. I will certainly be a strong voice for my constituents in saying that what the Liberals have done here is wrong.

[Kim Rudd, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Natural Resources]

Madam Speaker, there are people out of work across this country and our hearts go out to them, their families, and their communities, which are also suffering because people do not have jobs. One of the things Liberals recognize is that the labour movement in this country has been critical to our getting to the point we are at as employees, as employers, and as companies. It is about protection, it is about safety, it is about a number of things.

My question is this. At what point does my hon. colleague think this is important?

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Madam Speaker, it is not enough to say that her party's heart goes out to the people in my riding. Every time the government stands up and puts more regulatory uncertainties into the energy industry, raises CPP premiums, raises EI premiums, raises taxes on businesses, their heart does not go out to them. Liberals are doing them a disservice.

At what point do we stand up for workers? It is when we think strongly about how economic policy is actually affecting the growth of business. This is not an academic exercise; these are people's lives and people's jobs.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Madam Speaker, one of the things that businesses greatly dislike when looking for investment or for continuing to invest is uncertainty and conflict. One of the things that we have known increasingly as the participation rate falls in the labour markets over a number of years—less in the public sector, but certainly dramatically in the private sector—is that it has led to more unrest and uncertainty as collective agreements are no longer the norm in the private sector and businesses do not have that ability to go out and make those investments knowing what their labour costs would be.

I would also suggest, and perhaps the member would like to comment on this, is that the amount of uncertainty and conflict created around the energy and resource sectors by the previous government increased companies' inability to invest. There was so much strife and the degrading of our environmental laws. There was so much conflict between the previous governments and organized labour right across the country, both public and private, that the very low to terrible growth rates this country had during the member's government's time in office is a direct reflection of policies made in part at the cabinet level by the previous government.

We all look for certainty. We all look to support those working families. One of those ways is to have good collective agreements between workers and the employers who employ them.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Madam Speaker, to the people listening at home, my colleague opposite would have them believe his rhetoric, but here are the facts. Canada had one of the highest GDP growth rates over recessionary levels. People can look at the budget we tabled last year and see those figures, compared to our peer G7 countries. When we talk about regulatory certainty, the member makes it seem like Canada is somehow North Korea in terms of environmental assessment. The fact remains that Canada has one of the most stringent, robust, and arm's-length environmental assessment processes for major natural resource projects.

The New Democrats cannot quantify that degradation of the environment. They cannot quantify that because it is not fair. We actually have one of the strongest assessment frameworks here, but the key thing they do not like is the certainty of it. They want to be able to politically interfere in that process, and that is not right. One way or the other, yes or no, what we need is a process that is stable and certain and we need government policy that supports workers. That means lower taxes and ensuring that families are thought of rather than just special interest groups, major union bosses, and even big CEOs. This is about Canadian families and I hope that we can come together on that policy somehow, in some way, in this Parliament.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to join the debate. It also happens to be my first appropriate opportunity to make a few acknowledgements. I hope, Madam Speaker, you will allow me that latitude.

First, congratulations, Madam Speaker, on your re-election to this great place and on your ascension to being one of our deputy Speakers. You are already doing a fantastic job and I know you will be dispatching fairness and justice on a regular basis for all of us.

Most important, and probably the most important words I will utter in this whole term, is to thank my constituents of Hamilton Centre for the honour of being returned to this place. This is my fifth term here, and after having been around for a while, I begin to think that at some point they will get tired of me. That day is coming. It may not be here yet. I am looking over and I see my friend from Flamborough—Glanbrook laughing, and he knows there is still a good chunk of people who wish I were not here. Nonetheless, I got enough to garner them together to get here. In all sincerity, though, there is no greater honour, as everyone knows, whether brand new here or having served here longer than I, than that feeling we have every time we walk in here and take our place in the House. It is such an honour and I thank my constituents of Hamilton Centre for that honour. I will do my best to make them feel proud of that decision.

To the matter at hand, I found the last speech quite interesting. It was quite the dance. There was no music, but a lot of dancing going on. It started in one place, moved to another place, and had the discussion go over here. When they are in opposition it is always said that, “It is not that we do not like unions, it is not that we are opposed to working people. We just have this particular problem here, here and here”. The next thing we know, they are bridging over and talking about some other darn thing.

I remember when these bills were brought in and how proud the now official opposition members were to go after the labour movement. At best, they believe that the labour movement has had its purpose, but that its purpose has now gone by and unions are no longer needed.

I would like to place on the record a 2002 study that was done of a thousand other studies on the effect of unions on national economies. In that report, it said that “high levels of unionization lead to higher income equality, lower unemployment and inflation, higher productivity and speedier adjustments to economic shocks.” One can only begin to imagine what kind of raving lefty would have come out with such socialistic discussions about the impact of unions on our society, and yet the author was the World Bank.

I heard the previous speaker talk about her concerns with unions. However, from my constituents in Hamilton, I know who was in the forefront of universal health care in Hamilton and Canada. It was the labour movement. I know who was in the forefront of fighting for CPP and who is in the forefront today fighting for CPP for people who do not have pensions, who do not have collective agreements. That is what the labour movement is doing. Who else is standing up for the poor in this country? Who else is standing up for the unemployed? Who else is on the front line of ensuring that we have decent minimum wage protection in this country? What about environmental protection? If members look at any demonstration, or any submission to a legislative body, they will always find the Canadian labour movement at the forefront of all the things that make this the greatest country in the world.

We are not the greatest country in the world because we have the lowest tax rate or because we have the weakest environmental protection. We are the greatest country in the world for the antithesis of that, which is that we have those protections. These do not just come about by themselves, no matter how good a government is. I will say that about NDP, Liberal, or Conservative governments, because it does not matter. There is only so much that they are going to get done, it will still require the labour movement to be there at the forefront fighting, first of all, for the rights of workers and then spending generations after that fighting to defend those rights.

However, with the last government, we saw an outright attack on the labour movement. It is interesting that the Conservatives were telling the labour movement that the unions forced dues and that their members got tax credits for their dues, therefore the public had the right to all this information. I remember the debate, and that was part of what they talked about.

It is interesting that the Conservatives said that was what they wanted to bring about, but in reality, they led an attack on the labour movement for the reasons I just said. However, interestingly, that same application could be made to the Canadian Medical Association, or the law societies, but the Conservatives did not include them.

It was supposedly about fairness for the average Canadian, the taxpayer. It was supposed to be about transparency and all this was the rightful demand of the public, so the former government said, because of tax implications. People were getting benefits from this. The unions were charging dues and members were allowed to have a tax deduction for those dues. For both of those reasons, the Conservatives said that there should be accountability. However, the legal and medical professions, although they may not call themselves unions, they de facto are. In fact, we have seen doctors go on strike in our country on quite a few occasions.

Therefore, the myth the previous government was putting forward was that this was all about the taxpayer, just like when the previous speaker said it was all about working people. All of that is a camouflage. The fact is that with Bill C-525, the Conservatives brought in the changes for certification.

By the way, I would mention the similarities between former Prime Minister Harper and former Ontario Premier Mike Harris. In addition to starting with the letter “H” and both having six letters, they even had the same chief of staff for a while—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I want to remind the member that he cannot indirectly or directly talk about someone who is elected in the House.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, you are right. I was assuming the former primer minister had stepped down from this place, but he did not, and I apologize. However, I can say Harris because he is not a member here and never was.

However, if we take a look at the studies that have been done, guess what happened? Fewer unions were organizing and fewer organizing drives were successful. Right now the Conservatives would be saying “yes” that this was the whole idea.

Therefore, we are pleased to stand in repealing this legislation. We would have a bill in front of this place too if we had won the election, because the current legislation is wrong.

Promises were made to the labour movement to give them back their rights, and the government of the day right now is honouring that commitment. We are proud to support the bill and to hold the Liberals to account for the promises they have made. When they do honour them, we will say so. When it is time to give them their due credit, we will do that. This is the right thing to do. It was a promise made, and it is important to get this done and cleaned out of the way.

It is high time we had a government in Canada and a House of Commons that actually saw the labour movement as the positive contribution to our nation that it is, rather than always assuming that when we hear “union” we hear a negative and anti-democratic, which is what the Conservative government tried to say all the time. It is not true. It will never be true. As someone who is a proud product of the Canadian labour movement, I am proud to stand here and list and enunciate the great things the labour movement has done to make Canada the greatest country in the world.

This is the right legislation, and we are pleased and proud to stand and support it.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Madam Speaker, as the member would know, when I was a mayor in Hamilton and whenever there was an event where we were all to speak, we all wanted to know the list of speakers because nobody wanted to come after the member across the way because of his remarkable and formidable speech-making ability.

In view of some of the situations that are arising with regard to organized labour, would the member commit to doing his best to work with the government in order to ensure positive results for the working people of Hamilton and the working people of Canada? He could do this as he did in the past in a team Hamilton capacity. Would he commit to trying to work with the government in these terms?

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague from Hamilton East—Stoney Creek for his kind words and I congratulate him on his election to this place. I recognize the hon. member's role. We may have disagreements from time to time on different details of the labour movement, things that are important and the order of things, but any question of the major contribution that the labour movement makes to Canada I know my friend from Hamilton East shares that. I thank him for his voice over the years and for his continuing voice.

On that last point, team Hamilton was started by Mayor Fred Eisenberger. The whole idea of team Hamilton was wherever possible, MPs and MPPs from all parties would get together, not to fight or to put government members on the spot, to agree on common issues that were in the best interests of home town Hamilton. We would all agree to move forward. In my case, being in opposition, the most I could usually offer was a willingness to shut up and not stand in this place and make a big deal out of something when quietly we were trying to get something done. That can only be done with co-operation, respect, and leadership.

I look forward to continuing that, because I know one thing for sure, and that is that nobody else but a Hamiltonian would get up and ask “What can I do for Hamilton?” It has to be Hamiltonians. We need to stick together, so I am in.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Madam Speaker, I want to pay my respects to my hon. colleague. His style is very strong, and I like that, even if I disagree.

I want to remind the member that I was once a union member and I was proud of my union and my union representatives, because they worked hard for the well-being of the workers. The difference is the bosses. My union was affiliated with the FTQ. When I heard about all the misconduct of the FTQ exposed at the Charbonneau commission, I was outraged. That is the point.

How can that gentleman, who has been elected five times under a secret ballot vote, disagree on having a secret ballot to create a union?

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. friend for his compliments. I appreciate that. If that is his style, I look forward to more of this back and forth.

I would remind the member that there are problems in democratic unions just like there are problems in Canada, in our own democracy. We even had an inquiry led by Judge Gomery which looked into people accused of stealing tens of millions of dollars. Did that mean that we said to heck with Canadian democracy and threw it out the window? No. We say we have a problem, but we have systems and checks and balances to take care of that problem and we will do it in an open and transparent way. That is exactly what the labour movement does with those sorts of things. The members are in charge, they pay the freight, and they are the ones calling the shots.

That was what was so obscene about the legislation. It left the impression that unions were full of big union bosses and the goons and the guns and the stealing and all the other nonsense. That was the impression my colleague's party left and it was the impression it wanted to leave. That was the impression the legislation left. It had the desired effect. That secret ballot lessened the number of successes that were there because of intimidation. Anyone who has studied this issue knows that this is a fact. This hiding behind the secret ballot as the only way to do it is not the issue at hand. What matters is fairness and equity, and the workplace is not a fair and equitable place. Different rules are needed for that kind of circumstance.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Madam Speaker, this House is quite different than it was in the previous Parliament. For nearly 10 years, a bitter tone pervaded everything that had to do with social justice. Everyone could see it and read it. In contrast, this government's gesture, its repealing of the legislation that came out of Bill C-377 and Bill C-525, is a sign of its openness towards the driving forces of Quebec's economy.

This is what was missing during the previous government's reign. It did not really respect those who are working hard to build our economy, namely, the workers.

We wanted to believe that the vitriolic rhetoric of the Tea Party in the United States was centred around what is known as the deep south and the Republican Party. Unfortunately, the Conservatives proved to us that they were but a northern branch of the Republican Party of the Bushes, Trump, Romney, and other right-wing politicians.

Those are the people my colleague from Louis-Saint-Laurent is defending so blithely. I remember the day when he brandished his membership card from the old Progressive Conservative Party of Canada in front of the media. He did so proudly, but I think he was mistaken. He did not join the conservative party of former prime minister Brian Mulroney. He joined a party that wears a blue mask to hide its true roots, those of the defunct Canadian Alliance, a party that respects only the rich and powerful of this world and that despises the less fortunate and the working men and women of this country.

Those two bills were false fronts for hatred of social justice, for a desire to reduce workers to tools of production rather than regard them as human beings worthy of respect, for a neo-liberal ideology with the singular political goal of destroying those who would make our society more egalitarian.

Even Senator Segal, a Conservative, condemned those bills. All through those years of anti-union and anti-progressive governance, we saw special bills to force striking workers back to work, military policies that supplanted international politics, and economic policies that gave more money to the rich and took it away from our society's middle class and the poor.

Even though they are no longer in power, the Conservatives continue to cause damage that we will no longer have to bear once our nation becomes independent and free from the threat of their return to power. When they introduced their bills that were harmful to the common good, we listened to them speak about their good intentions to defend workers from the evil unions that represent them.

These same members defended policies that would reduce wages. These same members who claim to be the strongest supporters of pay equity also support policies on temporary workers, economic treaties with countries that support the exploitation of workers, policies on military contracts with countries that have no respect for human rights, especially the rights of women, and economic policies against labour-sponsored funds such as the Fonds de solidarité FTQ.

The time had come to move on to other things and have substantive debates in the House of Commons. I am proud to be a union activist, not because my approach is based on ideology, but because I believe in having a level playing field in our society. It would be a lie to say that we currently have a level playing field. I know that my right-wing colleagues will certainly disagree. That is to be expected.

When we turn ideology and rhetoric into the dogma of governance, we end up forgetting the facts, evidence, and scientific data that should be the driving forces of our actions in government. It is not surprising that the same government that passed its ideological bills also muzzled federal government scientists at the same time. When the data contradict our beliefs, then it is best to prevent people from reading them, right?

I am a unionist because unions are useful in our society. That is something that even old-school Conservatives acknowledge. Unions here are not ideological, they are pragmatic. They adopt constructive approaches. They are able to partner with businesses and employers for the economy and for the common good. Attacking and berating them, which became commonplace under the former government, was mean-spirited and vicious. The previous government was part of the global phenomenon of violating union rights. The rich and powerful of this world want to squeeze the middle class by taking away some of the leverage it needs for success.

It was nothing short of a concerted strategy by the former prime minister and his friends in the financial community to remove workers' last defences. Without our unions, it would certainly be easier for the government to lower the minimum wage, do away with our public heath care system, and butcher the welfare state that our parents and unions fought so hard to build in the 1960s and 1970s.

Regardless of what the big guns on the right, such as the Duhaimes and the Donald Trumps of this world, may say, Quebeckers and Canadians agreed on some things. The economic ultra-liberalism that contributed to the worldwide poverty of the 1930s was not the way to go in the 21st century.

Once again, I would like to commend the government on the gesture of openness it made by introducing Bill C-4. We are far from the promised land. There are still many inequalities. However, this is a step in the right direction, and it at least shows us the direction that we should take. We have not finished talking about inequalities in the House. There are still far too many.

For nearly 40 years now, workers' purchasing power has been decreasing, while executives' salaries have been increasing. The grand scheme to tear down the welfare state across the western world has been under way for too long.

Whether we are talking about Reagan, Thatcher, whom my colleague from Outremont so admired, Bush, or our former Canadian prime minister, too many politicians deliberately lie to voters. They claim to want what is good for them, yet all the while adopt policies that favour the rich and powerful. As the saying goes, “I want what is good for you and I want your goods as well.”

The time has come to reverse the trend. The time has come to think about the group instead of the individual, and that is why we have unions. In unity there is strength, as we know, and unions help bring strength to workers around the world.

Long live Michel Chartrand, Thérèse Casgrain, Marcel Pépin, Lorraine Pagé, and my friend Réjean Parent. Long live all those who fight for social justice.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Madam Speaker, I congratulate the hon. member on her very intelligent and passionate speech.

It is obvious to me that Bill C-377 and Bill C-525 were direct attacks on unions, in the same way that the former government liked to attack environmental groups and indigenous peoples.

Where does the hon. member think this philosophy of always attacking and dividing people came from? What does she think about that?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Madam Speaker, all the groups fighting for social justice are being attacked all over the world.

This neo-liberal trend has us up against a wall, since there are more and more inequalities, in fact. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Madam Speaker, earlier the member mentioned my membership card, which I actually have with me. Unfortunately, the standing orders prevent me from displaying it. However, I definitely have it with me, and I can assure the House that I am very proud of it. Why?

Back in 1981, when I was a member of the Progressive Conservative Party, we believed in democracy, transparency, and accountability, and those exact issues are in play with Bill C-4 because it is an attack on those three pillars of our democratic system.

While those statements were not uninteresting, they were a little too exaggerated. It is an exaggeration to talk about hatred for social justice and the dogma of governance and to say that we cared only for the rich.

Since we are on the subject of history and the Conservatives of the 1980s, may I remind my hon. colleague that her party was founded by the hon. Lucien Bouchard? Does she remember that in 1982 and 1983, he was the chief negotiator for the government that took a very hard line against unions? That is a useful reminder.

Here is my question: how can a member of Parliament oppose secret ballot voting? Does my colleague disagree with Robyn Benson, who said:

PSAC has no issue with voting by secret ballot. We do it regularly to elect our officers, ratify collective agreements, and vote for strike action.

Robyn Benson is a member of the Public Service Alliance of Canada. She is not a big, bad Conservative. She is a union leader.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Madam Speaker, regarding the history lesson, I want to reassure my colleague that as a teacher, I am very familiar with the events of 1982-83.

To answer his question on secret ballots, I want to point out what happened in the United States, where similar legislation was passed and the rate of unionization dropped from about 30% to 11% in less than 30 years. That is what happens with secret ballots. The Conservative Party's decision to bring in secret ballots has nothing to do with democracy. It is an attack on the union movement.

[Tracey Ramsey, NDP, Essex, ON]

Madam Speaker, it was estimated that Bill C-377 would cost the Canada Revenue Agency approximately $21 million to establish the electronic database over the first two years and approximately $2.1 million per year for subsequent years. Our cost estimates were much higher on the cost of implementing these new requirements, not to mention the astronomical number of hours that would be wasted by each labour organization in order to comply with these regulations.

The member mentioned that she was a former union member. We all know that money from many labour organizations goes into our communities to fund wonderful things that fill in the gaps where money does not exist from the government or other levels. Could the member please highlight some of the differences that union contributions have made in her community?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Madam Speaker, I cannot thank the member enough for raising this issue.

I was a member of a union of teachers and educational support staff. In 1989, we established a network to protect the environment and help create environmentally friendly schools that worked on ecology, pacifism and solidarity. That is an example of what unions do.

Also, in unionized companies affiliated with the FTQ, committees promoting French are created to help workers. My colleague is quite correct. Unions promote greater respect for workers and greater social justice.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

It is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Drummond, Official Languages; the hon. member for Jonquière, Human Trafficking.

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Madam Speaker, there has been a lot of talk about support for unions and so forth. I grew up in a union town, Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario. My dad was a union executive, and I was very proud of him, and I was a union member myself. I find it rather offensive that just because I am a Conservative and particularly a fiscal Conservative that somehow I am anti-union or we are all anti-union. We have to realize that is just a red herring.

I am pleased to rise in this House today to stand up for good hard-working Canadians, including union members, and speak against Bill C-4. I believe, as do my Conservative colleagues, that transparency and accountability are the pillars of our policies. In fact, it was our former Conservative government that created the Federal Accountability Act, and we did not stop there. As well, we created and passed legislation to ensure unions were accountable to their members and to all Canadians. Bill C-4 would threaten accountability and transparency in labour negotiations and labour relations. All Canadians should know where their money goes and be entitled to accountability.

The member for Kildonan—St. Paul told the House the legislation reflects the Liberal government's “commitment to restore a fair and balanced approach to labour relations in this country”. However, in fact this bill would remove the balance struck between big union bosses and Canadians. Bill C-4 perhaps would better reflect the uncomfortably close relationship between the Liberal government and union bosses.

I would like to review the content of both bills that would be repealed by Bill C-4.

We are looking at Bill C-525. Bill C-525 addressed the concerns the union members themselves had with the previous card check system. The card check system allows for a workplace to be unionized without allowing all employees to express their opinion. In fact, the unionization of a workplace could occur without a significant proportion of the bargaining unit having been made aware. That is just wrong. In the current system, if a certification drive were to be conducted for a bargaining unit of 100 employers and the union were able to obtain the signatures of 51 members, the bargaining unit would be certified. There is not a requirement for the remaining 49% of members to be notified that a unionization drive is even taking place or to be given the opportunity to express their opinions or opposition. That is just wrong. The card check system is susceptible to abuse wherein workers could be pressured by unions and/or their their colleagues into signing a union card. A secret ballot vote allows employees to provide an honest and accurate indication of support, free from the threat of pressure or intimidation from both unions and employers.

Now let us look at Bill C-377. It also took steps to improve transparency with union funds. Previously, labour organizations that enjoyed substantial public benefits were not required to publicly disclose their financial activity. Labour organizations operate tax free, and their members receive full income tax deductibility for their dues and payments, and receive their strike pay tax free. Dues deductibility alone costs the federal treasury in the range of half a billion dollars a year. That is a staggering amount of money. Financial transparency occurs in institutions receiving substantial public benefit. This is not a new concept. Bill C-377 addressed this gap in financial accountability, extending transparency to unions. In short, the bill required that every labour organization in Canada file a standard set of financials each year, which are posted on the CRA website, much like Canadian charities already do. It was not radical legislation.

It is a fact. Canadians, union members, stakeholders, and at least members on this side of the House, support transparency and accountability.

Let me share some of the widespread support that these bills have received.

With regard to Bill C-525, in a news release from April 2014, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business welcomed its passage, stating, “secret ballot votes are a cornerstone of our democracy..”. I think virtually anybody in Canada has to agree with that statement.

A poll commissioned by the Canadian LabourWatch Association found that 86% of unionized or formerly unionized workers supported secret ballot voting for union accreditation. Canada is the only country in the industrialized world that forces union dues upon workers.

Further, in his testimony before the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs, John Mortimer, president of the Canadian LabourWatch Association, expressed support for Bill C-525, making the following points:

Since 1977, six provinces, including Nova Scotia, British Columbia, Alberta, Ontario, Saskatchewan, Newfoundland and Labrador, have established laws guaranteeing secret ballots for union certification. The secret ballot is statutorily guaranteed for the majority of Canadians. This type of secret ballot has not caused unions to disappear, not even in Nova Scotia, where it has been in place since 1977. The rate of new unionizations is lower than before and reflects what informed employees are making as a private choice. That is what they want.

Sometimes employees are victims of inappropriate tactics and given wrong information to get them to sign a membership card. That is just wrong. For example, we know that some employees sign their card without knowing the true result, which is the unionization of their workplace. With regard to timelines for holding secret ballots, seven Canadian jurisdictions do not set timelines for votes.

Now, Bill C-377 also received significant support. I will highlight a few of them.

During his testimony before the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs, in 2015, Aaron Wudrick, federal director, indicated that the Canadian Taxpayers Federation supported the bill for the following reasons. He said that given that unions enjoy a wide range of tax benefits and special tax treatment, it would be appropriate to require them to disclose their financial information, as is the case with charities.

It is a no-brainer. Transparency is very important because it acts as a deterrent and allows a broader class of people to uncover any transgressions.

In testimony before the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance and the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce, Terrance Oakey, president of Merit Canada, was in favour of Bill C-377. He said that the bill would enable Canada to catch up with other advanced economies when it comes to financial disclosure. That has to be a good thing.

The bill would not change the mandatory payment of dues by unionized workers, nor the manner in which that money is used. The bill only deals with the transparency requirements that should be imposed on labour organizations. Workers paying dues deserve to know how that money will be spent—it is the least that should happen—and Canadians have a right to know how their taxes are being used to influence public policy.

A 2011 poll by Nanos found that 86% of unionized Canadians supported greater union transparency. That is an opinion shared by 83% of the general public.

With this support, why does the Liberal government want to repeal these important pieces of legislation? I must ask the government where the fairness is for hard-working Canadians. It is just wrong-headed, and we cannot stand for this.

[Arnold Chan, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Madam Speaker, I listened at some length to the member's rationale for why he opposes the government's initiatives with respect to Bill C-4, and I will reference specific comments that he made with respect to Bill C-377. In the previous Parliament, the first time that the matter was referred to the Senate, the bill was amended significantly by the Senate Tory majority, which seemed to have been opposed by the member's government at that time.

Does my friend have a comment as to why, at a time when Conservatives could not get support from their own Senate Tory colleagues, they felt the need to gut the attempts made by that caucus to make improvements to the bill?

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Madam Speaker, I have to confess, as my colleague probably knows, that I was not around for that.

It comes down to transparency. It is a no-brainer. It was good legislation. Union members supported it. It is not all about union leaders. Union members are quite often not informed by their own leadership, so we have to stand up for hard-working union members. We are not here to support the union bosses; we are here to support the hard-working union members.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Madam Speaker, the Conservatives cannot simply claim to be in favour of transparency and equity, even if every Conservative member tells me that he or she supports workers and unions. In my opinion, when a government interferes in an organization's business and tries to pit its members and leaders against each other, that government cannot then turn around and say that it wants to help the organization. The truth is that the useless bill that the Conservatives introduced was designed to give unfair advantage to anti-union employers. That is what it boils down to.

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Madam Speaker, I am not sure that there is a question there.

I have to reiterate that this bill is all about fairness. The member talked about organizations' leaders, and that seems to be what that party talks about. It gets its campaign workers and others from major union bosses and so forth. As Canadians, as Conservatives, and as someone who is a fiscal conservative, we care about the average worker.

Sometimes the party that appears to have tight focus with others in the labour movement throws the average worker under the bus. This is an exact example of it. Union members, the rank and file, want more transparency, and they certainly want secret ballots because the intimidation factor is too strong. I have seen it first-hand. People are afraid. I have heard members from the other side ask how many cases have come up where they are not complaining. They are afraid to complain.