Debates of March 7th, 2016

Income Tax Act

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, apparently I excited the hon. member with my speech. I do not know how he knows what I do or do not realize, and I will not get into it, but it is a presumptuous argument to take in answer to a question being proposed.

However, I do argue in the House of Commons that when there is an inequity to be faced here and there is a social justice aspect to it, I will raise those issues, and I will be confident in doing so, to bring the truth to Canadians.

The member can cherry-pick who he wants, as I did. I found some examples that got it and some that did not get it. However, the harsh reality at the end of the day is that most Canadians will not benefit, and that is unfair.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am trying to understand the NDP position.

I know that NDP members will be supporting the bill to go to committee so that it can be thoroughly reviewed by the finance committee. However, I want to know if they are against larger tax-free savings accounts and that is why they are in essence for the bill, or is it because they agree that people in those upper incomes, up to $199,000, who will benefit the most from this is the proper plan to go forward.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we do want to work at the committee level to get more information.

However, like a number of organizations, including the parliamentary budget officer, we believe that the current system for the tax-free savings account, which the Conservatives brought in, becomes a drag on everyone else who cannot contribute to it. It is at their expense for those who can afford it. It is a significant tax reduction, but others pay for that tax reduction, especially in deficits when we have to borrow for that money.

It is similar to the Conservatives' economic policies where we have actually had deficits in borrowing for large corporate tax reductions. It is similar to when we brought in the HST in Canada, which cost $6 billion. We actually had to pay interest, and are paying interest, on that $6 billion. The independent commission that studied this showed that with the interest rate, it would probably be up to $8 billion in total cost. We were borrowing money to bring in a tax on Canadians.

Therefore, we support returning the tax-free savings account to its previous level and going from there, and making sure that all Canadians can enjoy it in a tax benefit or tax credit. We are borrowing this money. If we are borrowing this money, then it is unfair that all have to pay for it and only some get the benefit.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I share the member's principle objection to the bill in terms of the lack of genuine progress in the tax changes, but I do want to ask him about corporate taxes. The evidence shows that as business taxes have been reduced, corporate tax revenue has gone up, presumably because of the relative elasticity of business investment.

Could the member comment on how the NDP plan to raise business taxes would actually reduce tax revenue?

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, in watching the decline of the manufacturing industry and the fact that most of the decisions are made for investment outside of our country, in the United States, we have seen a shrinking on the manufacturing sector that has been significant. We have also seen a lot of the corporations that have their head offices here in Canada enjoy some of those tax benefits. I can tell the member that large corporate tax reductions have not resulted in lower unemployment, and we see that in all communities across this country.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, let me draw a picture. A single mother is earning $80,000 and has two kids; one of the kids is in day care, and one of the kids is starting grade 2. She has to afford her mortgage, her grocery bill, her day care bill, and all of these different things in her daily life. This is exactly the type of measure that is designed to help her and nine million other Canadians. This is why I am so proud to rise today to support Bill C-2 in its second reading.

On January 1 of this year, nine million Canadians received a tax break. Our government was elected on a plan to grow the economy, and these changes are an important first step in that plan.

This week, our government reiterated its conviction that when you have an economy that works for the middle class, you have a country that works for everyone. Our government is charting a new course. At the heart of this approach is a commitment to strengthen the middle class and create conditions for economic growth that benefit all Canadians.

The new government will take action to ensure that economic growth is shared equally with the middle class and those working so hard to join it. In challenging economic times, the government has an important role to play. Now, more than ever, is the time to make investments to build a stronger middle class and foster sustainable, clean growth.

The legislative measures set out in Bill C-2 are the first step in the government's plan to create the long-term conditions necessary for economic growth. This will certainly not be the last step since we have a very ambitious agenda that we will fulfill one step at a time, one bill at a time, and one debate at at time.

I want to focus on the bill we are debating today, Bill C-2. This bill makes a meaningful change for the middle class by putting more money in the pockets of Canadian workers. In 2016, this bill will lower the personal tax rate for taxable income by 7% for people earning between $45,282 and $90,563.

On January 1, 2016, the government also reduced the annual contribution limit for the tax-free savings account, or TFSA, from $10,000 to $5,500. I assure the House that this change is not retroactive. The 2015 contribution limit will remain $10,000. We know that just 6.7% of Canadians who are eligible to contribute to a TFSA contributed the maximum amount in 2013. Doubling the contribution limit did nothing for the 93.3% of Canadians who did not contribute the existing maximum. Indexation of the annual contribution limit will be reinstated so that the annual limit maintains its real value over time.

Let me just say that I very strongly support the TFSA. I think it is a very important investment vehicle.

However, given the fact that so few Canadians used the maximum amount—only 6.7% in 2013—the amount of money we are losing in treasury for doubling the amount of TFSA can well be used on better things, such as for example, the Canadian child tax benefit that we intend to introduce.

With this tax cut for the middle class and the associated changes, we are delivering a fairer tax system. It is expected that about nine million Canadians will benefit from this measure in 2016, and this measure represents a real change for many Canadian workers. Not only is this measure fair, but it is also the smart thing to do for our economy. Furthermore, the tax changes proposed in Bill C-2 took effect on January 1, 2016. This means that the Canadians affected by these tax changes are already seeing the impact on their paycheques.

This is a turbulent time for the global economy, a time when the Bank of Japan has adopted a negative interest rate policy, China is facing a slowdown, the collapse of commodity prices is more than just a blip, and mediocre growth is the new norm.

This is a time when Canada needs decisive measures and a firm hand. It requires bold leadership in order to make smart investments and adopt tax measures to put our economy on track for growth.

Our government is ready to rise to the challenge. Our government was elected to implement an ambitious economic agenda that will kick-start our economy. We are taking concrete action to manage the Canadian economy. We are building a more sound economic foundation by providing tax relief to middle-class Canadians and investing in key sectors.

Thanks to our plan to strengthen the middle class and grow the economy, people who work hard can expect a good standard of living, a secure retirement, and better opportunities for their children.

During the election campaign, many of us had the chance to travel around our own ridings; and my riding of Mount Royal is no different from many other ridings. All of us know many people who would benefit from the middle-class tax cut.

It is true that not every Canadian would benefit. Some Canadians who earn more than $200,000 would be taxed a little more. Some Canadians who earn less than $45,000 would not benefit from the middle-class tax cut itself. However, they would benefit from all of the corollary efforts the government would make: to add to the guaranteed income supplement for single seniors, the Canada child tax benefit that would allow those who earn less to have much more to take their children out of poverty, and all of the corollary plans of our agenda, which was the plan Canadians chose in this election. They are ones that we believe are well worthwhile to put through.

I fully understand that some members opposite may disagree. We are all free, in a democracy, to disagree. However, I do think nobody can doubt that this was a proposal we made in the election campaign—a proposal we were elected on—and as such, it is a proposal the government needs to adopt in this Parliament.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Mount Royal started out with the example of a single mother making $80,000, who would benefit from this proposal.

I could provide the example of a single mother making $45,000, or less than that, who would see absolutely no benefit from the so-called middle-class tax cut.

Could the member for Mount Royal explain why it is actually better to cut the tax bracket over $45,000 as opposed to cutting the first tax bracket that everyone pays? It is not good enough to just say that some people will benefit from this, so it is good, or they won the election, so it is good. I want a focused answer on why it makes more sense to give this tax cut only to people making more than $45,000, rather than something that would include all Canadian taxpayers.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, let me note that during the election campaign, the NDP did not propose any tax cuts, either for those earning over $45,000 or for those earning under $45,000. It is mysterious to me why the NDP is now determined to add to the tax cut and say we should be offering it other people, which they did not themselves propose during the election campaign.

Meanwhile, the Canada child tax benefit, which would be aimed squarely at those who earn less money, would be of great benefit to the single mother who earns $45,000. That is a program we intend to introduce this year. That single mother about whom the member is talking would benefit greatly from it, and so would her children.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Mr. Speaker, let us look at the facts on TFSAs.

There are 28 million Canadians eligible; 10 million participated, which is 38%. Of that 38%, 18% maxed the original amount. It is only 18%, yet the party opposite doubled the amount; 93% of Canadians did not benefit from the TFSA.

There was a comment that it could be a dream of future Canadians to participate in a TFSA. Has the party opposite been to a low-income priority neighbourhood? During the election, I went from door to door in these neighbourhoods. Basically next to none of the people in these neighbourhoods participated in the TFSAs.

The doubling of the TFSAs would drain government money, government resources for now and the future, and that money could be used to help low-income families, families in need.

I commend my colleague for his speech. Would the member not agree that the tax cut for the middle class would do the right thing for our economy, and that the Canada child benefit would put money back into families that need it?

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with the conclusion the member reached related to the child tax benefit, and I totally agree that we need to put money back in the pockets of working-class Canadians.

I believe in the TFSA. It is a good vehicle. We should allow Canadians who are in the middle class, and higher-income Canadians, to save. We always need to draw a balance. The previous government had reached a good balance at the $5,500 level. Doubling it, given the how many people were using the maximum, was unnecessary, and I would prefer to redirect that money to working-class Canadians.

I strongly favour the TFSA as a vehicle, and many members in the House would agree with me, even though we believe that lowering the cap from what was promised is a better choice.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for Mount Royal for his excellent speech and defence of Bill C-2; however, I would like to focus on the tax-free savings accounts, TFSAs.

In my riding and right across Canada, the most prolific users of tax-free savings accounts were our seniors. It was an avenue for seniors to take their nest egg, their retirement savings accumulated over a lifetime of working, and put it into a vehicle that did not attract any tax. The government is focused on giving the guaranteed income supplement a boost, but would this not have also been a good measure for our seniors?

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would note that this government is retaining income-splitting for seniors, and while the TFSA is an excellent vehicle for everyone, including seniors, only 6.3% used it up to the cap, and that was the lower cap in 2013. My issue is not with the concept of the TFSA or using the TFSA for all of us, including seniors; the question is whether the cap needed to be doubled when less than 7% used it up to the cap.

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bécancour—Nicolet—Saurel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Bloc Québécois will be supporting this bill so that we can examine it more thoroughly in committee. My colleague, the member for Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, spoke about the Bloc Québécois's position in the speech he gave on February 1. He clearly explained why we will be supporting this bill.

He also pointed out the lack of substance in this ways and means motion, which was moved just before the holidays. In fact, this ways and means motion seemed much more a political exercise to create the impression that the Liberals were keeping their election promise. However, that was just one small part of the picture. The Liberals were not considering the overall picture in terms of the tax reforms that are required.

In its haste, the government introduced an incomplete bill. It is short on measures on income splitting and helping families, which leaves us with an imbalanced tax reform that does very little for most people. People in the very upper middle class, those with a taxable income of nearly $90,000, are the ones who will enjoy the largest tax cuts. There is nothing for middle- or lower-income taxpayers. I am talking about more than two-thirds of Quebeckers, the very people who need a boost the most.

People only start paying more tax if their gross income is higher than roughly $250,000. For example, members of the House of Commons, whose income is at the limit that I mentioned, will not pay more in taxes. It is not right, considering that their income is higher than average. We are quite far from the tax reform promised during the election campaign, which, according to Liberal Party documents, sought to make the tax system fairer, more progressive, and beneficial to most families. This motion does no such thing.

However minor it may be, it is nevertheless an improvement over the status quo, which the Conservatives and New Democrats wanted to perpetuate, in particular by promising a balanced budget. We will give the government a chance and support this initiative, in the hope that new measures will be introduced in the budget on March 22.

Since the government decided before Christmas to rush this ways and means motion, we do not understand why it did not make the UCCB tax-free in this motion. That amount was adopted precipitously by the previous government, just before the election. It was a bit of an election goody for families, but it was taxable; in other words, it had to be declared as taxable income. This tax credit would be added to families' incomes, and families would then have to pay back part of it. There was a lot of talk during the election campaign about making this benefit tax-free.

The same thing could be said about the tax credit for labour-sponsored funds, 80% of which are in Quebec. That tax credit should have been restored in full before the end of 2015, so that the issue could have been resolved before the end of RRSP season, which just ended.

That being said, before we throw any stones, we are waiting for the budget, because we think the government's real intentions will be revealed in this budget. We also believe that the somewhat botched and incomplete notice of motion tabled before Christmas was merely political smoke and mirrors.

In the notice of ways and means motion, right now, the maximum federal income tax rate is 29%. That applies to all income in excess of precisely $138,586 for the year. In the notice of ways and means motion, the government is introducing, effective as of January, some of the measures promised during the election campaign, but not all of them.

As I said earlier, the motion includes a new fifth tax bracket that would raise the tax on income in excess of $200,000 for the year from 29% to 33%. It would also reduce the tax rate on income within the second tax bracket from 22% to 20.5% and lower the TFSA limit.

During the election campaign, the Liberals said that changing income tax rates would cost very little, and they said that the two changes would balance each other out. They also talked about income splitting and reducing the TFSA limit.

The fact is that they overestimated revenue and underestimated the shortfall. The measures in the notice of ways and means motion will cost $1.2 billion. That is what we are talking about today in connection with this bill. Things will not balance out after all.

The other measures in the notice of ways and means motion, such as corporate taxes, taxes on dividend income and investment income, and charitable tax deductions, are essentially technical and are merely there for reasons of consistency.

There are a number of measures missing from this bill. I am talking about the so-called progressive measures from the election campaign. Of course, we heard about income tax on income over $200,000 a year, which I mentioned earlier, income tax for the second tax bracket, and TFSA limits. However, there are no measures to eliminate income splitting and make child benefits tax free, for example. There are two important measures missing from this notice of ways and means motion.

Take, for example, the elimination of income splitting. This provision enables a family member with a higher income to transfer up to $50,000 to their spouse with a lower income, so the couple can save the equivalent of the difference in tax rates.

The rich and members of the upper middle class are the ones who will benefit the most from income splitting. Also, the goal of Quebec's family policy is to help women enter the labour market, and it has been successful in doing so. Income splitting does exactly the opposite. It is particularly beneficial for traditional families where the husband has a good income and the wife stays at home. The government is still favouring this type of family approach.

In a scrum, the Minister of Finance indicated that income splitting will be eliminated for 2016 and that the measure will not be introduced until later. Let us hope that it will be in the coming budget. The same goes for the changes to family benefits. The Liberals promised to make changes to programs to support families. Their plan was to merge all of the programs to create the Canada child benefit. According to their platform, this new benefit will be tax free and tied to income. That means that low-income families will get more, families with higher incomes will get less, and the richest families will not get anything. We agree with that.

However, if these changes do not come into effect until July, there will be six months next year when people have to pay for the income they received under the UCCB, a family program implemented by the previous government.

I would like to close by saying that this bill is a small step forward, but there is really something missing. If we are given the opportunity to speak in committee, we will, of course, be very interested in proposing real ways of improving this bill.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the member has alluded to the fact that this bill is a small step forward. We are talking about one aspect of an overall platform that would give literally millions of Canadians a significant tax break.

The member made reference to the fact that the federal budget will be delivered on March 22. There is great anticipation that we will see a number of initiatives to assist with the implementation of other policy platforms. When we talk about budgetary measures, such as tax relief and program development, we need to take more holistic approach to the legislation and the budget to get a better sense of how the government proposes to deal with the whole issue of income inequality. If we were to combine it as one, we would find that the middle class would be the greatest benefactor. Would the member not agree with that?

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bécancour—Nicolet—Saurel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I believe that the hon. member just summarized what I said in my speech. He referred to an overall, holistic reform and that is exactly what is missing in this bill. It is just one aspect. The notice of the ways and means motion which led to the actual bill was hastily tabled before Christmas. It covered only one aspect of the election promises. It seemed to be an exercise in partisanship to demonstrate that they wanted to act quickly. I believed that it could have been more substantive, especially with regard to the TFSA and income splitting, and could have taken a more holistic and overall approach, as the member said earlier.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague from Bécancour—Nicolet—Saurel for his speech. Bill C-2 will reduce the second personal income tax rate on income exceeding $45,000. My question for my colleague is as follows: would it be better to reduce the first tax bracket, which applies to everyone?

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bécancour—Nicolet—Saurel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I concur with my colleague. People earning less than $45,000 will get absolutely nothing out of these measures. They will not benefit in any way from the measures in this budget. I believe that there should have been an item, as my colleague just said, covering all income, from no income to very high income, to ensure that people making $45,000 or less, who are very close to the middle class, could also benefit. We call them the least advantaged.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his speech. I heard his response to the question from the hon. member for Regina—Lewvan. I would like to know whether the Bloc Québécois campaigned on lowering taxes for those who earn less than $45,000 because, as a candidate in Quebec during the election campaign, I never heard the Bloc Québécois say anything about that.

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bécancour—Nicolet—Saurel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in its extensive platform, the Bloc Québécois proposed tax measures to help the least advantaged and people with low income. For example, we wanted to enhance the guaranteed income supplement for seniors. We also wanted to improve the basic amount up to a maximum. We wanted to do that to raise the maximum income amount for eligibility to the guaranteed income supplement. In that sense we certainly did talk regularly about improving things for the least advantaged, while hoping the middle class could also benefit from a tax cut.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to speak to Bill C-2. I want to focus my discussion today on the tax-free savings account.

I find some of the comments from the other side of the floor about the tax-free savings account, which we initiated, very interesting. We are very proud of this initiative and I think many Canadians appreciate it.

From going around my riding of Foothills in southern Alberta during the campaign and during other times during the year, I know Canadians, especially those in my riding, appreciated the increase in the tax-free savings account. Canadians use this to save for their children's education, or to buy their first home, or maybe to have a comfortable retirement. However, the fact is that the tax-free savings account allows Canadians to save.

Some members opposite claimed that this was just a way for us to pander to our base. If the middle-class Canadians who supported TFSA is our base, I would be more than happy to take them.

Members say that these dollars do no go to the Treasury and that they could be better spent. That is an arrogant statement, especially coming from a government that horribly has gotten the math wrong on its middle-class tax cut, which will now go into $30-billion annual deficits despite having pledged $10-billion deficits. Its financial plan is a mess and yet it is telling Canadians that it does not want them to have the benefits of the tax-free savings account because it feels it could spend those dollars better than them. It is extremely disingenuous to tell Canadians that a government can spend their dollars better than they can.

I want to talk a bit about what the tax-free savings account really means to Canadians.

We heard members opposite say that this was something very few Canadians could use, that it was a tax haven for the wealthy.

It should be noted that 11 million Canadians have tax-free savings accounts. That is certainly more than just wealthy Canadians. Eighty per cent of those are making $80,000 or less. Of those who maxed out their TFSA, 60% are making $60,000 or less annually. These are not wealthy Canadians. These are hard-working Canadians who are making difficult choices for their families, difficult choices that they feel will benefit them in the future, whether that is saving for their first house, or their children's education or for retirement. These are hard-working Canadians making the financial choices that they feel are best for them.

Since when does the government step in and say that it knows better than them when it comes to savings? These Canadians are simply trying to have a sound financial plan. We should be encouraging these things, not eliminating them. The key is that Canadians should have the opportunity to make decisions that are best for them. They are making choices that suit their priorities. Certainly some may have an RRSP, but the TFSA has much more flexibility than an RRSP. What is wrong with giving Canadians another option, another opportunity to save for their futures?

Canadians want to have those choices so they can put money away when times are good. Certainly for Albertans, many of them may be tapping into their tax-free savings account when times are difficult. This is a great chance for them to put funds away when times are good to help them through when times are difficult. When times are tough and they do not have that savings, they will rely on government social programs, whether it is EI or other programs. Any time they can be self-sufficient and rely on their own savings is a benefit for the government.

The new Liberal government's approach to this is misguided. It wants to take away something that has been extremely popular. As I said, 11 million Canadians have a TFSA. The Liberals want to take away something that allows Canadians to make their own choices in whatever their unique savings goals might be. Not only do they want to take away the TFSA, but they will be implementing a mandatory CPP increase. This will not only hurt Canadian taxpayers—an additional $1,000 a year—but it will also impact Canadian business owners because they will have to also match those fees.

Why would the government put in a mandatory savings when it has this great opportunity of which many Canadians can take advantage? They can put as much or as little into it, whatever they feel best benefits them and their families.

What kind of message is this sending to Canadians when the Liberal government is saying that it wants to take away some of their options for savings, but at the same time it will use those dollars to try to mitigate this massive deficit it will pass on to the taxpayers. The government will be taking with one hand and taking with the other. That could be extremely frustrating for Canadians who are trying to save for their future.

The Parliamentary Budget Officer released a report earlier this year that stated household indebtedness and financial vulnerability in Canada was increasing. It showed household debt servicing capacities were continuing to trend upward, while continuing capacity to meet those debt obligations was diminishing. It shows that we should be giving Canadians every opportunity to save when times are good, so when times are tough, like they are right now in Alberta, Atlantic Canada and Saskatchewan, they have an opportunity to have savings they can tap into when they need it.

Reducing the TFSA contribution limits will simply reduce the ability of Canadians to save for retirement and to protect themselves during those economic downturns. TFSAs remove barriers for all Canadians to maximize their financial position. It really is a shame the Liberal government wants to decrease the ability of Canadians to use this tool to save for their future.

The other issue at hand with Bill C-2 is the middle class tax cut. I am sure this vision was burned into the minds of Canadians during the election campaign. The Prime Minister went from coast to coast to coast and said, “A billion dollar tax cut for the middle class, paid for by a $3 billion increase on high income earners”.

However, the Liberals got their numbers completely wrong. This middle class tax cut is anything but revenue neutral. In fact, the Parliamentary Budget Officer has said that this tax reform, and I will not call it a tax cut, will cost Canadians $8.9 billion over the next six years. That is anything but revenue neutral and it shows that the Liberal government will be taking away with one hand and taking away with the other. They say that this is a middle class tax cut, but average Canadians who qualify for this will only get $6 a week. I do not think that will have a profound impact on stimulating our economy or making a big impact for middle-class Canadians. In fact, middle-class Canadians will not benefit from this at all. The group that makes closer to $200,000 will benefit the most.

We will be penalizing those hard-working Canadians, usually those who have started businesses, created jobs, grown our economy and who worked extremely hard to be in that higher tax bracket. We will be taking $3 billion away from them, and it will not be making that big of an impact.

We should be taking a hard look at who actually will be benefiting from this middle tax cut. It is not a tax cut. It will be a $8.9 billion debt for which each and every Canadian taxpayers will have to pay.

We should not be impacting or discouraging Canadians from saving. We should not be discouraging those hard-working Canadians who are job creators, who have started businesses, who have helped grow our economy. What I see in Bill C-2 are miscalculations impacting our business owners and our entrepreneurs. Also it will not have the financial impact the Liberals have said it will have.

I encourage all members of the House to vote against Bill C-2. This will have not have the financial impact the Liberals have said it will, other than increasing our massive and growing debt. It comes down to this. Should Canadians be taking financial advice from a Liberal government that could not get the math right on its middle class tax cut, is arguing with its own financial staff on the amount of the Conservative surplus, and will now have a $30 billion annual debt that it will put on Canadians? I do not think we should be taking financial advice from that party or that government.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the member opposite said that our party would take with one hand and take with the other. That could not be further from the truth. Let us look at the numbers. They show that 6.7% of Canadians max out TFSAs. That is a fact. Why does the party opposite want to double that number? The Conservatives wanted to double the number because it pandered to their base.

The member opposite also said that the government would take that money, and that we were arrogant about how we would spend it. Is it arrogant to come up with a Canada child benefit that would help nine out of ten Canadian families and that would pull 315,000 children out of poverty?

The party opposite's finance minister, who has disappeared off the face of the earth, stated that future generations would pay for this. Our grandkids and great-grandkids would pay for the TFSA doubling. That is not fair to Canadians. It is not fair to Canadian families. What the Liberal Party would do is put money back in the pockets of families and in the pockets of people in the middle class.

If only 6.7% of Canadians maxed TFSAs, what was the rationale behind doubling that amount?

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Mr. Speaker, first, on the child tax credit, the liberals got their math very wrong on the middle-class tax cut. I am really going to be interested to see what your math is like on the child benefit and whether it will indeed benefit nine out of ten Canadian families.

On the TFSA, what is the harm in doubling it? You are so concerned that so few Canadians actually used it? Actually 11 million Canadians have a TFSA account. This is a very profound and significant opportunity for Canadians to save for their future. The key is to save for what they feel is best and their priorities, not the government's.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I want to remind hon. members that they are speaking through the Chair and not directly across.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Regina—Lewvan.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for Foothills for his impassioned defence of tax-free savings accounts. Of course the question before the House is not whether we should have TFSAs; it is whether the contribution limit should be $5,500 or $10,000.

The member for Foothills talked about the large number of Canadians who might use TFSAs to some extent. However, does he acknowledge that fewer than 7% of Canadians actually reached that maximum of $5,500 in contributions, and that therefore it would be a relatively small and relatively affluent group that would gain from increasing that limit to $10,000?

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the key phrase in that question was “affluent Canadians”. With all the stats and facts that are out there, the Liberals still feel that the tax-free savings account is somehow a tax shelter for the wealthy. Sixty per cent of those people who maxed out their TFSA made $60,000 or less. I would like to hear in any community across Canada where people feel that an annual salary of $60,000 somehow makes someone affluent.

This is an opportunity for hard-working Canadians to make difficult choices, which some of them are choosing a savings account as a priority over many material things. However, the key is that it is a choice they themselves make. What is wrong with allowing Canadians to make those choices for themselves, rather than giving those dollars over to government where they have no control over it, to a government that now has $30 billion in annual deficits?