Debates of May 18th, 2016

Alleged Actions of Prime Minister in Chamber

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if one wants to exaggerate the situation and to make this into something that it was not, or make it reminiscent of a dive in the 2006 World Cup, perhaps we can go on.

What happened was exactly as the Prime Minister had described it. It was certainly not a purposeful, intentional movement. The person was out of sight and behind the Prime Minister. It was only that.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order. We will hear a little more.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on the same and a related question of privilege. In the House, one of the privileges that we observe is to accept the word of other hon. members.

The member who just spoke questioned the word, given in good faith, of two members who just spoke. I will add my testimony. I saw the Prime Minister, I would use the word, charge across the floor, with intent, and shove people with the intent of moving the whip down the aisle, an intentional action by the Prime Minister, which is unacceptable in the House of Commons, the use of physical force.

As part of doing that, he knocked one of my colleagues into the desk. She was physically shoved into the desk. I witnessed this. Then she was unable to continue in the House. Her privileges were breached by the physical actions of the Prime Minister.

I would ask the Speaker to rule, both, on the question of the violation of privilege by the Prime Minister, and also on the question of whether we accept hon. members' words in the House or not.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would just like to say I was the member in question. I was standing in the centre, talking to some colleagues. I was elbowed in the chest by the Prime Minister, and then I had to leave. It was very overwhelming, so I left the chamber to go and sit in the lobby. I missed the vote because of this.

I just wanted to clarify and make sure it is clear to all members in the House that it did happen.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

I want to make it clear that we do accept the word of other colleagues in the House.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I want to take the opportunity, now that the member is able to return to the House, to express directly to her my apologies for my behaviour and my actions, unreservedly.

The fact is that in this situation I noticed that the opposite member whip was being impeded in his progress. I took it upon myself to go and assist him forward, which I now see was unadvisable as a course of action, and it resulted in physical contact in this House that we can all accept was unacceptable.

I apologize for that unreservedly. I look for opportunities to make amends directly to the member and to any members who feel negatively impacted by this exchange and intervention because I take responsibility.

Speaker's Ruling

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

I appreciate the comments of all the members who have spoken, and I appreciate the Prime Minister's apology.

Having said that, I cannot help but find a prima facie case of question of privilege and I call upon the hon. member for York—Simcoe to move the appropriate motion.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that finding. I will be brief and simple. I move:

That the matter of the physical molestation of the hon. member for Berthier—Maskinongé be referred to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

He said: Mr. Speaker, I believe we have seen and heard evidence from everybody here that makes it apparent that such an occurrence took place and that the member's privileges were violated, as you found, Mr. Speaker, in your preliminary finding.

This is a very serious matter. It is not something that can be cured by a simple apology. We have seen that the member's privileges were offended to such a degree that her vote was lost, the most fundamental and basic right of representation in our Westminster parliamentary system.

Even the most heartfelt apology, and I am not sure we had that, is not sufficient to compensate for such a violation of one's privileges. When one combines it with the physical nature of the violation that took place, this is a very significant matter. I have read about this stuff in history books from the 19th century. I have never seen such a thing in my lifetime.

As a result, it is very clear that the House should move quickly to vote on that matter and have the matter referred to the committee for the appropriate study, appropriate recommendations, and to examine how we can avoid such an unfortunate occurrence in the future.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, it is actually my hope not to debate this further. We are about to go, I hope, to a serious debate on very important legislation, medical assistance in dying.

I would hope, Mr. Speaker, that if you would seek it, you might find the consent of the House to send this to the procedures and House affairs committee. We are comfortable with the committee looking at this matter. That is the place where this issue should be dealt with. Then the House could get on with this important issue of discussing medical assistance in dying.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

First, it being after 6 p.m., the House, if it were to proceed now, would be proceeding to private members' business. Second, is the hon. government House leader asking unanimous consent to adopt the motion? Is that what he is saying?

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

It seems the debate will be continuing in that case. The hon. member for Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—Charlevoix.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister of Canada must represent Canada. The gesture was inappropriate and proves beyond a doubt that he is incapable of conducting himself like a prime minister of Canada.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this is a very serious matter. I would hope that the Prime Minister would be here to listen to the words of opposition members.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order, please. The member knows that we do not call attention to the presence or absence of any member in the House.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, there is another element, which is this. Most members of the opposition and I are still quite shocked by what we saw on the floor of the House of Commons. There is no parallel that I can think of, certainly in contemporary Canadian history. We sometimes hear of members becoming physical in other legislatures in other countries, but that is not Canada and that is not our democratic tradition.

In this place we respect all democratic values. In this place we sometimes do not agree with one another, but we listen. That is what is supposed to happen. However, for the past few weeks, we have seen things go downhill. The government does not seem to want to respect opposition members. That is becoming increasingly obvious. A few minutes ago, I rose to speak to Motion No. 6, which is another way of suppressing democracy in Canada. A few hours after moving a motion unlike any other in Canadian history, we see the Prime Minister, who seems to think he has the right to shove and push certain opposition members and come into physical contact with them, namely the chief whip of the official opposition and member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes and the member for Berthier—Maskinongé. That is unacceptable. That is completely unacceptable.

The saddest part is that the Liberals are laughing and comparing this situation to a soccer match. Some Liberal members do not seem to understand that what the Prime Minister did is completely unacceptable.

We have had Liberals laugh at this, make jokes, and compare it to a soccer match. I can speak for all four of the opposition parties that, regardless of who pushed another member, if it were a member of the opposition, I have no doubt that he or she would be the first to stand and apologize unreservedly to that member. In the case of the government, we did not see that apology. Rather, an apology came in a very roundabout and mitigated way.

We have an opportunity in this debate, and I hope other members will rise to speak to this, for all members to say very clearly for the Prime Minister, or anyone else who would cause a physical altercation on the floor of the House of Commons, that in our Canadian democracy we listen, but we do not hit, push or manhandle. We respect each other despite our differences. This should be the message that comes from all members today.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order, please. My apologies to members. We should be going to questions and comments, which I will do now.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for King—Vaughan.

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have a comment and then a question. My comment is from my perspective, having witnessed the whole episode, and I will come to my question.

Having witnessed the whole episode, I would like to ask my colleague who brought this forward whether it is important to understand the intent. There is no way—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order, please.

Let me say again that we are talking fundamentally here about respect for each other and the kind of respect that we want to see shown in this place for each other. I urge colleagues to do that now, whether they like what they hear or not. That is the whole point, showing respect for each other in this place. Even if you do not like what you hear, you still have to do it.

The hon. member for King—Vaughan has the floor.

[Deb Schulte, Liberal, King—Vaughan, ON]

Mr. Speaker, what I witnessed was the Prime Minister striding across and coming to the group that was gathered and blocking the way of the opposition House leader. As he strode across, the group moved apart and he reached through and moved the House leader through. At the point that he did, he did bump into another member. However, I believe there was no intent to harm anyone or to actually bump into anyone.

What I am trying to ask the member from the other side is this. Is it not important and relevant whether there was a real intent to do any harm here or whether it was an accident?

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, given the gravity of what just transpired on the floor, I still find it difficult to understand why Liberal members are questioning or trying to, in some way, justify what is unacceptable. It does not matter which member did it to whom, it is absolutely not justifiable to hit, or push, or manhandle any member of Parliament, at any time, in any place. It is strictly not acceptable.

I fail to understand why the government members do not understand that it is simply unacceptable, what transpired tonight. A half roundabout apology 20 minutes later simply does not convey the importance of apologizing unreservedly right away for actions that were wholly, totally, and always inappropriate.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this is a very serious issue. I am glad that we have so many members here to be able to debate on this important motion.

I think we all agree that any material breach of a member of Parliament's privilege needs to be addressed as quickly as possible. The hon. Speaker has said that this behaviour is unacceptable. Obviously, he believes that there has been a breach in those privileges. Does he not agree, when we have the embodiment of the government involved in stopping a member of Parliament from carrying out her duties for her constituents, there is no greater material breach?

I wonder if the member would comment on that.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

It is very clear to me, Mr. Speaker. You have ruled in the only way you could rule on the motion from the member for York—Simcoe, that it is a breach of parliamentary privilege, but beyond that, that behaviour is inappropriate on the floor of the House of Commons. It is inappropriate in a community centre. It is inappropriate on any street or in any park in any of our cities in Canada. It is simply inappropriate. There is no other way to put it.

It was inappropriate to physically assault two members. It is inappropriate to drag a member halfway across the House of Commons. It is still surprising, I think, to all of us on the opposition side who saw it, yet we have members on the government side who are trying to justify it and do not seem convinced. This debate will continue, I think, and there are other members who will contribute to this debate, but the debate will continue until we have every member on the government side saying, “This is inappropriate. Physical violence is inappropriate. We will not permit that from anyone, even the Prime Minister du Canada.”

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Mr. Speaker, in my colleague's comments, he referred to what happened here as being unacceptable anywhere. I would ask him to speak to just how unacceptable it was, what took place in the House.

We as parliamentarians are counted on to come forward with policy and legislation when it comes to harassment, bullying, ensuring safe work places, fighting violence against women and fighting sexual violence. What took place here in the House was physical violence. We know, and outside, that people would call what happened here assault.

When we are talking about something as serious as what took place in the House, would anyone in the House, or anyone across the country, find that kind of conduct, not just by a prime minister but of anyone, acceptable?