Debates of June 2nd, 2016

Opposition Motion—Special Committee on Electoral Reform

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will go back to my comment about not presupposing or prejudging the committee's work. The three Conservative members who will be sitting on the committee should be bringing that case forward while they are at committee. If they feel strongly that a referendum is the answer, they should bring forward witnesses and experts on previous referendums and let them present the evidence and make a strong case for it.

However, enough talk about the process right now; let us let the committee do its work, and I hope members make a strong case at committee because now there will not be six Liberals who have a final say. They will have the ability to work with all parties on this measure, and in this place if people have a valid argument and back it up with strong facts, hopefully that is what will win the day.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today on this important occasion and to address this important motion.

The very agreeable tone of the debate today is a tribute to my friend from Skeena—Bulkley Valley, who has worked so hard and so long on this very issue. His work has been guided by a value that I hold dear as a New Democrat, and that is a belief that a noble end can be reached by noble means, that positive change should not always be on the horizon but should be part of our work in the here and now.

The solution my colleague has offered today is not only a reasonable and creative compromise, but it is also a principled proposal that matches our basic values about fairness and democracy. It is a principle that all Canadians would agree is fair and, as such, I hope it is a plan that every member in the House can support.

I am pleased that the Minister of Democratic Institutions has accepted the NDP proposal. In the words of the member for Cape Breton—Canso, we are truly having an “adult conversation”, a conversation that is starting here and I hope will spread throughout the communities from coast to coast to coast.

Before we can come together around a fairer way to cast our ballots, though, Canadians need to have confidence in the process itself. The best way to earn that confidence is to start with the system that reflects how they voted just eight short months ago, which encourages inclusiveness and collaboration with every party at the table.

Outside of the halls of the Prime Minister's Office I suspect we would be hard pressed to find a single Canadian who believes that getting less than 40% of the votes should equal 60% of the seats and 100% of the power. Canadians know that to use the results of a broken system to craft a better one is to pluck the fruit of a poisoned tree.

Instead, we have a chance here today to deliver change and to do it right through a process that embodies our values. This is how Canadians expect us to resolve the issue, because it is how Canadians have always tried to resolve differences themselves in their homes and in their workplaces, by bringing everyone to the table and listening to every voice so that everyone has a say and a stake in how we move forward together.

Across the aisle, my colleague from Burlington spoke very eloquently today, and she was right: this motion is a landmark in the evolution of our journey to democracy in Canada.

At the start of the last century, more than a generation past Confederation, voting rights were still denied to fast swaths of the Canadian population. The ballot was denied if one did not hold land, if one held a different faith, if one's skin was not white, and of course, if one was a woman.

There are Canadians alive today who have seen in their lifetime this evolution. They have seen the House finally grant federal voting rights to women. It would take another year for women to gain the right to run for one of those seats, another decade before women opened doors of the Senate, two decades before leaders like Thérèse Casgrain won the right to vote in their province, three decades before indigenous women first cast ballots in band elections, and four decades before all indigenous people in this country won their rightful voice in the affairs of the House of Commons.

This is a long arc. It has risen at a shameful pace and every advance has been bitterly resisted and hard won. However its trajectory is clear. The evolution that the member for Burlington outlined, the story of Canada's democracy, is the story of the continuous broadening and deepening of our democracy.

Democracy is not a state. It is an aspiration. Just as we could not claim to have reached the goal of true democracy when half our population was denied the right to vote, neither can we rest on our laurels when the makeup of the House does not match the choice of Canadians. Therefore, what is the next step?

Two years ago, I held a town hall in Victoria to discuss electoral reform with my constituents. The overwhelming view of the crowd that filled the hall that night was that the allocation of seats in Parliament ought to directly reflect the balance of votes that parties earned and that only true proportional representation could reliably and accurately deliver that balance.

Canadians are tired of the winner-take-all system. Winner takes all is not a value we teach our children and it should not drive our politics either. Canadians know that a better system is possible. Advanced democracies around the world have long recognized the flaws of the winner-take-all systems. Canadians are not alone in recognizing that this system not only distorts results but produces more adversarial politics.

The list of major democracies that have adopted proportional representation includes powerhouse economies like Germany and nations with similar Westminster institutions, like New Zealand. Not only does the system match Canadian values about fairness and inclusion, but it brings some unexpected benefits as well. In fact, a landmark study of 36 countries found that proportional representation increased voter turnout, elected more women, and led citizens to report feeling more satisfied with their democracy, even when the party of their choice was not in power.

Other studies have uncovered more surprising benefits. Countries with proportional representation score higher on indices of health, education, and standard of living. They are more likely to enjoy fiscal surpluses. They have healthier environmental policies, faster economic growth, and less income inequality.

What explains those differences? How can a voting system fuel economic growth and diminish inequality? It comes down to people. Consensual political institutions involve and empower more citizens. They respond to and represent a deeper pool of interests and people. The policies they enact are not just more representative of the average voter, they are more credible and more stable. Those qualities make consensual politics better for people, better for business, and, indeed, better for our planet.

I am proud that our party championed this system not only in the last election but in the last Parliament as well. I say that because proportional representation would actually have given the New Democrats fewer seats in the 41st Parliament than we won in 2011 under the first-past-the-post system. This is a matter of principle and the principle is simple: every Canadian deserves fair representation, every Canadian voice should be counted and equal, and every vote should be counted. I think every Canadian can support that principle and it is the standard by which we will judge the work of this committee.

My colleague from Vancouver Kingsway was absolutely correct this afternoon. The biggest thing we can do to combat cynicism and kindle hope in our politics is to build a system in which more voices matter, not only one which entrenches power for those who already have it.

I call on my colleagues to approve this motion and get to work as soon as possible, building a new electoral system for a new century, one in which we will finally see our democratic institutions reflect fairly, proportionately, and accurately the choices of our fellow Canadians.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member and his colleagues for putting this motion forward, and I thank my government for working with the NDP and agreeing to the motion. Co-operation is a sign of strength, in my opinion.

I want to ask the member about fairness. I agree that proportional representation is a fairer system. It is not just me or the member opposite who thinks that. The 2004 Law Reform Commission report also agrees, after extensive consultation. In its view, mixed member proportional representation was chosen out of nine options that were surveyed.

Does the member, in speaking about proportional representation, have one particular view of the matter? For mixed member proportional representation, there are party lists, PR and single transferable vote. There are different models.

When we talk about fairness of process, this is an important first step, obviously, in agreeing to the committee. When we talk about legitimacy of process, what are the member's views on a referendum, a supermajority? Are there other avenues we might arrive at that would grant this process legitimacy?

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with my friend from Beaches—East York's premise that co-operation is a sign of strength. I am pleased that through co-operation in this place, we are modelling that kind of strength in the House of Commons.

I agree with my friend that proportional representation was studied in 2004 by the Law Reform Commission. I agree that MMPR was the model it thought best. However, I am agnostic at this stage because I want the committee to do its work, hear from Canadians, and figure it out. To come into it with prejudged positions would be self-defeating. As long as the values I spoke of in my remarks are at play, I am confident that people of goodwill sitting around the table in a representative capacity will get it right for Canadians.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I listened to the member's comments. I know him to be an honourable member and I am sure he is quite sincere. I know he believes in the position of his party in its desire for a proportional-type system. However, I think the concern many Canadians have right now is that they are seeing these backroom deals going on between his party and the Liberal Party. I think they are wondering where their chance is to have a voice. I know we are talking about having some consultations, but the real voice of Canadians gets to be heard when every Canadian gets to have a say.

This is not about political parties getting a say. This is not about politicians getting a say. This is about every Canadian. The one way that can happen is through a referendum. Therefore, I want to know this. Sure, there are processes that will take place and a committee will be struck. However, at the end of the day, if his constituents say to him that they demand a referendum, that they want the chance to have a say, that they do not think political parties should make this decision, that they believe all Canadians should make the decision, where would he stand on that?

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague identified the position I advocated on, which is proportional representation, as one of my party's. I want to make it clear that it has been a personal view of mine for many years. I am pleased that it is reflected in the position of the New Democratic Party, but it is to reduce the impact of proportional representation, to think of it in partisan terms. Around the world, proportional representation has been adopted by advanced democracies. That is the key point.

When the lightbulb went on for me was when the member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley yesterday asked the government whether it was prepared to move alone on a previous approach that did not involve one of the major parties in the House. That tells all, and the government has accepted that is not the appropriate way to move forward. I am confident we can get it right this time for all Canadians.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate my hon. colleague from Victoria on what I think is one of the most powerful, well-reasoned and cogent speeches that I have heard in the House in eight years on any subject. I was particularly interested in his accurate and powerful description of the extension of the franchise and his narrative of democracy being a living organism and not a static kind of concept. He pointed out that in Canadian democracy, we have gradually expanded the vote from white men with property to people with property to women to aboriginals to non-Caucasian people, from people who are 21 years of age down to those who are 18.

My question for him is this. Several people on different sides of the House have proposed that it is time to expand the franchise to reduce the voting age to 16, so 16- and 17-year-olds, whom we tax, who drive, who can marry, who can join the army, can also have a say in their democratic structure. As we explore our democratic reform system, is this an opportunity for us to take the next step and actually continue that process of enlarging the franchise to get more Canadian citizens involved in their democracy?

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague and friend from Vancouver Kingsway for his very generous remarks.

I am personally committed to lowering the voting age. It is the right thing to do for a number of reasons, the least of which is because the kids today are a lot smarter than I was when I was that age and are much more involved. This would be an opportunity to engage them more. Rather than phoney events in their high schools where they vote for the student union, imagine if real politicians came in and were trying to achieve their vote? To me, that is a really important test. If we can hook young people on democracy at a young age, I suspect that positive addiction will continue throughout their lifetime. There are a number of good reasons for doing so. I hope the committee will study that as well.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to stand up for Canadians and for their right to have a direct say in any changes to the method of voting, to the method of our democracy.

I have listened to a lot of speeches today, and what I have heard deeply concerns me. I am hearing a lot of talk about what is best for political parties, what is best for politicians, how do we best ensure that all political parties, or at least one other political party, is happy. It is not just about the governing party or the Liberal Party.

It is all about this proposed competition in the community and what is best and what is fairest for political parties, what is fairest for politicians, and what is fairest for their partisan interest. This discussion should not be all about political parties. It should not be about politicians. It should be about the Canadian people. It is their method of voting. It is their democracy. This discussion needs to be about Canadians, all Canadians. It should not be about politicians. It needs to be about ensuring that each and every Canadian has an opportunity to have a direct say.

When we are thinking about the motion today and discussing it, more than on any other occasion, we have to ensure that what we have at heart is the best interests of all Canadians. When we get down to that, when we are changing the most basic rules of democracy, everyone gets a vote, a direct say. It should not be just the Prime Minister and the Liberal cabinet. It should not be just politicians or political parties, especially when we are talking about backroom deals. It needs to be about each and every Canadian, everyone getting a direct say. That must be the absolute essence of any discussion we have in Parliament about electoral reform. Canadians absolutely must have the final say in a national referendum on any proposed changes to how they elect their representatives.

It was actually the Minister of Democratic Institutions who said, “listening to Canadians is at the heart of a healthy democracy”. It is unfortunate that what we are seeing in the actions of her Liberal government is reflecting the exact opposite of that.

I want to touch a bit on the party's positions. First. Mr. Speaker, that I am sharing my time with the member for Richmond—Arthabaska.

When we talk about this, a lot of claims have been made about the fact that Canadians voted for a party that wanted to change the system somehow. Different positions have been taken by the different political parties. The New Democrats, from their platform, want to make an individual's vote truly count by bringing in a system of mixed member proportional representation. That is their position. About 19.7% of Canadians voted for them.

The Green Party talks about replacing the first-past-the-post system with proportional representation. Therefore, we have one party talking about mixed member proportional representation and another one talking about some form of proportional representation. The Green Party got about 3.4% or 3.5% of the vote in the last election.

Members of the Liberal Party, which is typical of the Liberal Party, have taken a position of riding the fence, putting themselves in a bunch of different camps so one candidate can claim one thing and one can claim another. At the end of the day, they will do what they want. They have said that they might look at a variety of different types of systems. They got the support of 39.5% of Canadians. They have taken all these numbers, put them together and they think that somehow that gives them the right to change the system without asking Canadians, without talking to Canadians, giving them a chance to have a direct say. I do not think that is what has happened at all. I think they are just trying to avoid the ability of Canadians to have that say, but this has to be about them.

If we are truly to have a discussion on electoral reform and a very open discussion on it, as the Liberal government claims, and the fix is not already in and there has not already been these backroom deals to some kind of conclusion as to what will be put in place, why have the Liberals taken one of the options off the table before they even have had the conversation with Canadians, which is our current method of voting, the one we have had since Confederation? Some people claim that makes it a bad system just because it has been around for a long time. That is up to Canadians to decide. That is not up to the politicians in this room to decide or for the political parties to decide.

It seems to show a lot of arrogance, in my mind, towards Canadians to have political parties say that they will have a conversation with Canadians and give them some options, but they will take one option out, it is gone, and it is off the table before we even have a conversation with Canadians. It seems like a lot of arrogance to say that it is not an option and Canadians cannot choose it. They can choose one of the things we might like them to choose, but not this other option. This needs to be their decision.

A few days ago, The Huffington Post was reporting on one of the Liberal members, the parliamentary secretary for Veterans Affairs, the member of Parliament for Kanata—Carleton. She recently had an electoral reform town hall in her riding. The one thing I noted in the story was that the member was quoted as having laughed when she recounted a story about a citizen who said he did not think there was anything wrong with our electoral system. Well, that was his opinion and he has a right to have that opinion. Is that the attitude that we can expect from the current Liberal government when it is consulting with Canadians; laughing at those who have a different opinion from its opinion?

If the Liberals are truly interested in listening, they would not laugh off the opinions of Canadians. This comes back to that arrogance of their party. I think when we talk about some of the backroom dealings going on with the NDP, there is arrogance being shown here, which is a real concern, because Canadians need to have that say, and not these political parties with their backroom deals.

One thing that I think has been abundantly clear when I look at the actions of the Liberal government is that the members' actions are in their own self-interest. They are in the interest of politicians and not in the interest of Canadians. The Minister of Democratic Institutions stated that she wants to listen to Canadians, but instead the Liberals are charging ahead with a plan that, unfortunately, does not give Canadians the ultimate say. It is one that does not leave all the options on the table. It tells Canadians that they know better than Canadians, that this option is not available to them, that they can pick from some of these other choices, but Liberals are going to decide what those choices are.

I think it is clear that the Liberal government and the Prime Minister seem to think that only those people who agree with them and with the committee that has political partisan interests, that was created through backroom deals, is who should get the say. The Prime Minister has been quite clear about how he opposes directly consulting Canadians through a referendum on any fundamental changes to how we vote. In fact, he told students at the University of Ottawa exactly that. He said, “the fact is that referendums are a pretty good way of not getting any electoral reform”.

Well, I do not know, that may or may not be the truth, but the bottom line is that it is not his decision to make; that is Canadians' decision to make. I would say to the Prime Minister that the fact is that referendums are the best way and probably the only way to ensure that Canadians get a direct say, the ultimate say, on their democracy.

We looked at a lot of other jurisdictions that have made decisions or looked at proposed changes to their electoral system, such as Ontario, Prince Edward Island, British Columbia, and other democracies like the United Kingdom and New Zealand. They have all done this. All of them have given the direct say, the ultimate decision, to their citizens through a referendum, not to their politicians.

I am really quite concerned to see what I am seeing today. The fact of the matter is that three-quarters of Canadians have said that they want to have the referendum on any electoral reform before the government proceeded. Therefore, they want to have that say, they want to have the choice of all the options, which has been made quite clear by Canadians, and it is being made quite clear. It is the only way that the current government can ensure that the changes the Liberals are making are supported by all Canadians and that their plan is fair and transparent.

Whatever the government decides to do, Canadians need a vote, they want a vote, and they want to be able to say yes or no. What better way to consult with all Canadians than through a referendum? A committee of parliamentarians, no matter what its makeup, no matter what the party stripes, no matter what their partisan interest, is not and never will be a substitute for all Canadians having a say and having their voices heard directly through a referendum.

In 1992, there was a referendum held on the Charlottetown accord. Three-quarters of eligible Canadians voted. Almost 14 million Canadians voted. To be able to reach the same number of people with this town hall proposal, 40,000 Canadians would have to show up to a town hall meeting in each and every single riding. That is 40,000 Canadians in each of 338 ridings. I cannot for the life of me understand how the current government would not choose to give each and every Canadian a say in a referendum before it changes the very method by which they vote in elections.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Democratic Institutions]

Mr. Speaker, I listened with interest to the member opposite. There were a lot of conspiracies there. I do not think I have heard that many conspiracies anywhere, maybe not even at an alien convention.

The reality is that when the member talks about backroom deals, I am confused. There were many conversations that took place with the critic for the member's party, that took place with all of the critics for the different parties. We have had a debate on this particular matter for weeks around what the composition of the committee would be, with members from the Conservative Party saying that the proposal that was put forward by the NDP was a good idea. I heard that many different times. We have tried to work constructively to build that bridge and pull people together and say, “Let us find middle ground, a place to work together”. I am confused here today that there is no movement from the Conservative Party.

There is a channel to have a debate as to how best to engage Canadians. That is the committee, and that is the motion that we have in front of us. Given the fact that there was such a clear iteration in the last election that the status quo was not acceptable, will the member not work with us in the way that the Conservatives were talking about before, and ensure that we have a method to productively modernize the Canadian electoral system?

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am really sorry to hear of the member's confusion. I do not think there should be any confusion here.

The bottom line is that it is not up to the Liberal government, it is not up to politicians, and it is not up to political parties to be able to decide for all Canadians how their voting system should work. The very fundamental basic of our democracy is how we vote. For there to be these conversations, or whatever he wants to call them—backroom deals, as I call them—or whatever we want to call them, the bottom line is it should not be up to politicians or the political parties to make this decision. That is what I keep hearing in this debate today, and it is what I keep hearing from the current government: “We are going to work with the political parties”.

Canadians get to have a say. Members do not just take one of the options off the table. They have to say to Canadians that they are going to give them all of the options, let them have a say, and then at the end of the process let Canadians decide yes or no with a referendum.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is unbelievable. We just heard from the parliamentary secretary how he does not believe that the Canadian people should have a choice, but actually that the parties should have the choice in how Canadians elect their representative.

Earlier on, we had the Prime Minister reference that the reason he does not want to actually go to a referendum is because he would not likely get the result that he wanted. Then today in question period, we actually had the minister refer to the people who want to have a referendum as being narrow-minded. That is a disservice to Canadians. That is a disservice to everyone who sits in this great House.

Why is it important that we have a referendum in Canada and allow the people to have a say on all of the options that are available for them in how they select their members of Parliament?

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for that question. It gives me the opportunity to reiterate the most absolutely fundamental, important point in this whole debate, and it is the one that I am not hearing from any of the other parties in this House. I am not hearing about this because all I keep hearing about is the interests of political parties.

This is about Canadians. This is about the way they vote. This should be a conversation first, but then it needs to be given to every Canadian. It needs to be put in Canadians' hands and they need to be given that choice. They need to be given all of the options available to them and they need to be able to make that choice and say, for the system that is being chosen, “I agree” or “I disagree”, yes or no, as to whether they want to change the voting system or they do not.

That is the conversation that needs to be had with Canadians, but it also needs to be given to every Canadian to have a direct say and the final say. It is not the Prime Minister's choice and it is not political parties' choice, it is Canadians' choice.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Speaker, before today, we had a committee that had a clear Liberal majority.

Now we have a committee made up of 12 voting members, including five Liberals and three Conservatives, by the way, if we are talking about backroom deals. The Conservatives are going to be in the room.

Which of the two does the member think is more democratic?

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Mr. Speaker, there is one thing that would make this completely democratic and that is to say at the end of the process, Canadians get to have a say. The composition of a committee does not matter. If it is a majority of Liberals, or if there is somehow agreement between two of the parties, or whatever it might be, at the end of the day it is not up to politicians to make that decision. It is up to Canadians. The composition of a committee does not change anything in terms of the fact that Canadians need to have the final say in a referendum to say “yes” or “no”.

[The Deputy Speaker, Bruce Stanton]

It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Burnaby South, Status of Women; the hon. member for Carleton, Taxation; the hon. member for Beauport—Limoilou, Veterans.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to speak to this very important issue, namely, the electoral reform that the Liberal government wants to bring in. I really wanted to speak to this because it is fundamental to our entire voting system and our entire electoral system. It forms the very foundation of our structure in Canada.

First, let me give some background. How did we get where we are today? The election that took place at the end of last year, in October 2015, resulted in a Liberal government with 39.6% of the universal suffrage. That is very close to the percentage the Conservatives had in the previous election. In other words, it was more or less the same percentage that gave the Liberals a majority of seats in Parliament. This majority of seats, which gives them 100% of the power, does not, however, give them 100% of the truth in the House.

Since the beginning of their term, the Liberals have not stopped telling us that with this majority, Canadians gave them the right to implement their entire election platform. They talk in the House as though Canadians read the 219 proposals in their 97-page election platform, and as though the 39% of the public that voted for them gave them the mandate to carry out these 219 proposals unilaterally, without approval from Parliament as a whole and, in the case of this electoral reform, without the public's approval.

This Liberal government, which was elected by 39% of the population and has the majority of seats and therefore all the power, is saying that it wants to change the rules of voting, the very foundation of our democracy. The Prime Minister himself, in his Speech from the Throne, simply announced that the current voting system could no longer be used and that last fall's election was the last one to use it. Then, he also announced in various conversations and at various press conferences that he already had a preferred voting system in mind, a preferential voting system, which is clearly advantageous to the Liberal Party across the way.

When you consider all of those things and also consider the government's plan to create a partisan committee, right here in the House, the outcome is already clear. The committee will make a recommendation to the government and ministers, who, together, will propose a change to our electoral system. They already have a majority.

What the Conservative Party is asking for today is simple. We are not against consultations, nor do we think we should not figure out how to reach as many people as possible. We are saying that, ultimately, the Canadian public, all Canadians, must say whether they want to change the voting system. This decision should not fall to the Prime Minister of Canada, Justin Trudeau, who was elected with 39% of the vote.

I am sorry, Mr. Speaker, I should not have named—

[The Deputy Speaker, Bruce Stanton]

Order.

The hon. member for Abitibi—Témiscamingue on a point of order.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the member named the Prime Minister.

[The Deputy Speaker, Bruce Stanton]

I think the hon. member knows that he is not allowed to use another member's first or last name. He must refer to members by their riding name or title.

The hon. member for Richmond—Arthabaska.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

I am sorry, Mr. Speaker. I got excited and completely forgot that rule.

What I meant to say was that it is not up to the Prime Minister of Canada and his majority government to decide what kind of voting system we should have. He can go ahead and consult everyone. Everyone is okay with that; nobody is against doing the right thing. Nevertheless, he needs to send a clear signal to the House that he will let Canadians have their say about whether they want to change the voting system or not. He should not be arrogant.

Since 1950, any provincial government that wanted to change the voting system went to the people to find out if they agreed with the proposal. That is all we are asking. It is not complicated. We are asking the government to rise above its position, set partisanship aside, stop treating us like we do not matter, and agree to let the people decide in the end.

Today, the government would have Canadians believe that changing the voting system will get more people engaged in politics. That is not true. In every country in the world, where there are different governments and different voting systems, the number of people who vote from one election to the next keeps going down. It is no different here in Canada. The problem we have is a cultural one. We have to change the culture and put an end to excessive partisanship, which we are currently seeing from the Liberal Party. We are asking the government to trust the people.

New Zealand held public consultations on changing the voting system for 10 years. They asked experts and the public for their opinion. They changed the first-past-the-post system to a mixed member proportional voting system. The voter turnout during the last election declined by 10%.

Leading the public to believe that changing the voting system will automatically improve voter turnout is completely false.

We have been asking the government questions from the beginning. However, all we hear is that the opposition, the Conservative Party, is being partisan and does not want to contribute or listen to what is being proposed.

I took the time to compile what political analysts had to say about the minister's proposal. Across all media platforms, whether written, televised, or broadcast, here is what was being said about the government's electoral reform:

Emmanuelle Latraverse, a CBC journalist, wrote an article entitled “Réforme électorale de Justin Trudeau : un premier rendez-vous manqué”, or “Justin Trudeau's electoral reform: a missed opportunity”.

In Le Devoir, Manon Cornellier—

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the member mentioned the Prime Minister by name again.

[The Deputy Speaker, Bruce Stanton]

I remind the hon. member that even when a member is named in quoted material, he may not use the member's name.

The hon. member for Richmond—Arthabaska.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I apologize. I will stick to my quotations, but without using any names. I will continue:

...all this hurried brainstorming will not be preceded or accompanied by an information campaign on the various voting systems, a task that could have been given to an independent organization, such as Elections Canada.

Voting belongs to the people. It is their tool for selecting their representatives. Since time is short...the whole process is being left up to those same elected representatives who know very well which system will work most to their advantage. One only has to look at their past positions to find out...

Holding the 2019 election under a new voting system imposes a tight deadline that does not give Canadians a chance to have a proper debate, like the ones that took place in Quebec...British Columbia, Ontario, New Brunswick, and PEI.

In each case, a referendum was held and the people refused what the government was proposing.

I will continue:

The people will not have the final say, either, because the government has ruled out the idea of a referendum. Yes, time is short, and so is coherence.

Here is another quote:

Electoral reform could require reopening the Constitution. The Liberal government could plunge the country into a constitutional mess against its will.

There are a lot of quotes like those ones. Here is the last one I will share:

Imagine if the reform leads to disinterest and lower voter turnout; that would be a disaster. A referendum would ensure that the public is in agreement.

We are simply saying that it is not up to the elected officials in the House to control the very foundation of our democracy, which gives men and women the opportunity to govern for four years. The public should have this control. Let us put our trust in the public. Let us be sensible with them, and they will be sensible with us. That is how we can change the culture of disinterest.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, during the previous Parliament, the Conservative government and the minister for democratic reform, who was then the member of Parliament for Nepean, if I am not mistaken, introduced a reform that made significant changes to our election rules. My colleague was not here at the time, but I do not think the government consulted the public back then, and they certainly did not hold a referendum.

I am trying to understand the Conservatives' logic. Why do they insist on a referendum when they are not in power, but do the opposite when they are in power? The party's position seems to change based on when it is in power.

Should it not reconsider our proposal to make a committee or entity responsible for making that decision? That is what we have proposed, and that is what we will do.