Debates of Oct. 19th, 2017

The Liberal Government of Canada

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, two years ago, Canadians made a choice. They chose a government that wanted to invest in the middle class and invest in our families. Over the past two years, that is exactly what we have done. We have raised taxes on the wealthiest 1% so we could lower them for the middle class. We introduced the Canada child benefit, which is more generous and tax free. We have also made major investments in home care and mental health care. We have invested in our seniors. Our plan is working. More than 400,000 jobs have been created, most of them full-time. They are jealous. For two years now, we have been focusing on the middle class. I just want to say that we are going to keep going. We are not stopping here. We are going to do this for our youth, for our children, and for our families. We are going to do this for all Canadians.

Ethics

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the finance minister hid his offshore company in France until he got caught, and then he reported it. He hid from Canadians his millions of dollars in Morneau Shepell shares in a numbered company in Alberta, despite wrongly telling others it was in a blind trust, until he got caught, and now he is selling them.

Why does he expect us to blindly trust that he is not hiding other conflicts of interest in his eight additional numbered companies that he has across the country?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, we have a process in the country to ensure that ministers do not have conflicts of interest. I worked with the Ethics Commissioner to make sure I disclosed all of my assets. I worked with her to ensure that I took an approach that freed me from conflict.

I called her this morning and informed her that I was going to take two additional steps beyond her recommendations. First, I was going to put my assets in a blind trust. Second, I was going to work with her to ensure that neither I nor my family have any shareholdings in Morneau Shepell, a company I used to be with.

Finally, I am going to continue with the conflict of interest screen to make sure that I have no conflict of interest and that Canadians have confidence.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, for the last several months, the finance minister has said that our farmers, plumbers, and other small business owners are a privileged few, using fancy accounting schemes to avoid paying their fair share.

We now learn that the finance minister used a loophole, putting millions of dollars of shares he was otherwise banned from owning into a numbered company in Alberta in order to continue to earn millions of dollars.

Now that this hypocrisy is exposed, does he not think it is time to apologize to those business owners he slandered?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, there are two separate issues there, so let us start with what we have actually been working with on behalf of Canadians.

[Some hon members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order, please. I am asking the hon. member for St. Albert—Edmonton and others to try to restrain themselves and to wait until it is their turn to speak, if it comes today, and not speak when they do not have the floor, as they know the rules do not permit interruptions.

The hon. Minister of Finance has the floor.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there are two issues from that question. First, we have been working with Canadians to make sure we have a tax system that does not create advantages only for the very wealthy. We have also ensured we have tax rates that are low, so small businesses can invest across the country.

With respect to my own finances, I am going to continue to work with the Ethics Commissioner to not only make sure I meet all of her recommendations but even go further to ensure Canadians have confidence in the long-term future of the country and confidence in the role of the minister of finance.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the minister has vast powers at his hands that he would be able to use to advantage the company in which he had tens of millions of dollars of secret holdings. He committed to the Ethics Commissioner in writing that he would recuse himself from any matters that might advantage Morneau Shepell. Could the minister tell us how many times he recused himself from matters relating to Morneau Shepell since he took office?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to start by setting the record straight. I disclosed all of my assets to the Ethics Commissioner, to meet the high standards of integrity that our government wants to continue to uphold. I will continue to do so.

We will, on an ongoing basis, continue to work on behalf of Canadians. We know it is important that we meet their standards. I will ensure that, to the extent there is any approach the Ethics Commissioner advises me to take, I take it. As I said, I am going that one step further than any person has before me to divest of my assets in Morneau Shepell.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this morning the Globe and Mail reported that the Minister of Finance told his former colleagues two years ago that he would be placing all of his holdings in a blind trust. He even said the same thing to the media. Suddenly, he has woken up. A light has gone on. Two years later, he has just realized what every member of this House already knew: that the law requires all holdings to be declared within 60 days. All of a sudden, a light has gone on.

We would like to know exactly when the Minister of Finance made the Prime Minister aware of his conflict of interest.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the way our system is set up, we work with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner to make sure our affairs are out in the open. That is what I did. I did so at the start with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, who gave me her advice, and whose recommendations I have followed this whole time. When I spoke with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner today, I told her that I wanted to do more, to set up a blind trust, and I will work with her to sell all of my and my family's shares in Morneau Shepell. It is important to make sure Canadians have confidence.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it took him two years to get the picture. The mandate letter the Prime Minister gave his Minister of Finance reads as follows: “you must uphold the highest standards of honesty and impartiality, and...the arrangement of your private affairs should bear the closest public scrutiny.” Who am I talking about? About the Minister of Finance, the same man the Prime Minister stood up for as recently as yesterday here in the House.

When did the Minister of Finance tell the Prime Minister that he was in conflict of interest?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I did not talk to the Prime Minister about this; I spoke to the Ethics Commissioner. That is actually the way our system works. I worked with the Ethics Commissioner to make sure I did not have conflicts of interest. In fact, I followed to the letter the approach she suggested.

What I am saying today is that I do not think the distractions, the slander, and the things that were being said across the hall are in any way helpful to our economy or to Canadians. Therefore, I am going to move forward and take an additional step, a step that will ensure the confidence of Canadians and ensure that I can get back to the work that I want to do.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, for two years the Minister of Finance told his own company that he would put his assets in a blind trust. For two years he told the media that he would put his assets in a blind trust. For two years he told his own colleagues that he would put his assets in a blind trust.

Why, for two years, did he mislead the media, his colleagues, his company, and really, all Canadians?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I want to be absolutely clear. The way it works with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner is we explain our situation, we ask for her advice, and we act on her recommendations. That is what I did. Thanks to her recommendations, I was confident that I was not in a conflict of interest situation. Now I have decided to go even further, which will improve public trust in the office of the finance minister.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if he had such confidence in what he was doing, then why did he mislead all of his colleagues?

According to our information, in the five days following the introduction of Bill C-27, which will directly benefit Morneau Shepell and is a bill sponsored by the Minister of Finance himself, stocks in Morneau Shepell went up 4.8%. The Minister of Finance would have made more than $2 million profit on his shares.

He is an intelligent person. Does he not find there is perceived conflict of interest, since he was in a position to personally benefit from his own actions?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, to be clear, what I did was ensure that I worked with the Ethics Commissioner to make sure that she understood my situation. I took her recommendations and made sure that I moved forward with them to not have a conflict of interest. Now I have gone one step further, and in order to make sure that there is no possibility of any conflict whatsoever, I actually informed the Ethics Commissioner this morning that I would like to work with her to divest of any shares of mine or my family's in my former Morneau Shepell employer. That, I think, will give a great deal of confidence to all Canadians.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in the few days after he personally introduced Bill C-27, a bill designed to attack the pensions of Canadians and help firms like Morneau Shepell, the value of Morneau Shepell stocks increased by 4.8%. For the finance minister's personal holdings, that represented a profit of over $2 million in just five days. That is more money than the average Canadian makes in a lifetime of work.

The minister constantly talks about serving the public. How does pocketing millions of dollars from his work as the minister do anything but serve himself?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, as I said this morning to the Ethics Commissioner, I have taken all of her recommendations because I respect the Office of the Ethics Commissioner and I believe that what she is doing is trying to ensure that we do not have conflicts of interest.

I also said that I am going to move forward with additional steps, to work with her and her office in whatever way I can in order to move away from having any of those shareholdings. That will happen over the course of time. I will not have any understanding of what the actual proceeds will or will not be, and that is the process as it should be.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, for two years the finance minister told the media that he was putting his shares in a blind trust. He told the same thing to his old company. Canadians and even fellow Liberal MPs lived this lie. His response two years later, I guess after making millions, is that now it is time to do the right thing. Talk about Liberal entitlement. Those guys really know how to celebrate an anniversary.

Too many Canadians already think that too many politicians are just in it for themselves, and now this.

Does the finance minister simply not understand that his actions ruin the trust in our institutions? If he really wants to do the right thing, will he apologize for abusing the trust Canadians put in him?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I have a different sense of why Canadians have a distrust of politicians. It is when people say things that they are aware are certainly not the case. That is why Canadians do not have confidence in politicians.

What the member opposite knows is that I fully disclosed my assets to the Ethics Commissioner. I worked with the Ethics Commissioner to get her recommendations, and I followed those recommendations.

If the member opposite is actually suggesting that the Ethics Commissioner is not doing a good job, he should come out and say that to her.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this government was elected on a promise of transparency and we are getting quite the opposite today.

The Minister of Finance and his company, Morneau Shepell, have benefited from the minister's actions. His company made money and the minister still holds shares in that company. He introduced Bill C-27, which directly increased profits at Morneau Shepell.

My question is simple: when did the Minister of Finance inform the Prime Minister that he was in conflict of interest and when did he recuse himself from any discussion on this bill?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the way to ensure that we are not in conflict of interest in Canada is to work with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, which is what I did. I explained my situation to her. She gave me some advice and I followed her recommendations to be sure to be free of conflict of interest.

I will go even further. I will put my assets in a blind trust. I will work with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner to divest my family and myself of any shares in Morneau Shepell. That will give Canadians more confidence in my situation.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the sad truth is that the reason he had these discussions with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner was not because he wanted to be more transparent. It was because he wanted to find a way to get around the law. That is just what he did. It is what he had been trying to do since 2013.

In 2013, as president of Morneau Shepell, the minister gave a speech in which he said Canada needed legislation enabling target benefit plans. In 2016, he himself delivered the goods by tabling this bill, which benefited both the minister himself and his company.

At what point did the minister recuse himself from these discussions?