Debates of Nov. 1st, 2017

Ethics

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order. I would ask the hon. member for Banff—Airdrie and others not to be talking or yelling when someone else has the floor.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the only people in this House right now who do not respect the work of the Ethics Commissioner are the ministers of the crown and the Minister of Finance who failed to disclose, who hid his corporation in France, and who has now been fined for breaking the law.

He has failed to be open about his many assets. He has failed to answer simple questions about what he owns, and why he structured it in the way he has.

We are still going to ask a very simple question. Can the Prime Minister tell us if the Ethics Commissioner has been informed of the finance minister's recusals from the two meetings he claims he recused himself from?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as I have done a couple of times, I think it is important, particularly today when so many young people are in this House watching the workings of our Parliament, to explain that it is perfectly normal and even important for the opposition to be asking difficult questions of a government. That is at the core of what we have as a government.

However, it is also, because of the nature of those attacks, important to have independent commissioners in whom we can all have confidence to ensure that the rules are followed in the appropriate manner. That is what we are always doing. What is coming from the opposition is noise.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister keeps claiming the Minister of Finance was not in a conflict of interest. We now know that assertion is not true.

However, questions still remain regarding Bill C-27, a bill that could directly benefit the finance minister's family business.

Can the Prime Minister tell us whether the Minister of Finance met with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner before tabling Bill C-27 in the House?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as members of Parliament, when we are elected, we work with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner to make sure we are following the rules and principles that are in place.

The Minister of Finance has offered to go above and beyond what the commissioner originally asked him to do, because we know how important it is to have the respect and trust of voters.

We are going to keep working with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner and with all commissioners here in Parliament to make sure that we respect and defend the institutions of this House.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we have the utmost respect for the commissioner, but here is the thing: she cannot block those loopholes. The government could, and chooses to block efforts to do so.

The Prime Minister might think otherwise, but Canadians' trust has been betrayed by the finance minister's ethical failings. Someone once said, “The Prime Minister has to show leadership and take responsibility for the actions of the people he chose.” Who said that, one might ask? It was this very Prime Minister during the Duffy scandal.

Clearly, the Prime Minister does not understand what a conflict of interest is. Does he also need help understanding leadership and responsibility?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, this government has always chosen to raise the bar on openness and transparency, and has continually worked with and respected the commissioners, whether they be the Ethics Commissioner, the Information Commissioner, or the Privacy Commissioner. That is part of what Canadians asked us to do when they chose us as government two years ago, after 10 years of a government that had completely disrespected the institutions that protect our democracy. That is what we continue to focus on while we focus on the concerns and the issues that matter to Canadians.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out that during the Senate expense scandal in 2013 the current Prime Minister tweeted, “Conservative ethics abuses have shaken Canadians' faith in Parliament. It's time to #raisethebar on accountability”.

After the cash for access scandal, the investigation into the Prime Minister's vacation on the Aga Khan's private island, and the scandal involving his finance minister and Bill C-27, does the Prime Minister still believe that he did “#raisethebar” on accountability?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we continue to demonstrate the openness and transparency that Canadians asked for two years ago. We will continue to have an open government that is directly accountable to Canadians. As I do every Wednesday, I will answer all of the questions I am asked.

We have often shown how well we understand that a government must maintain the confidence of Canadians in order to function properly.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is hard to believe but, just four years ago, this Prime Minister did not hesitate to criticize the Conservative government for its ethical lapses, particularly in the case of the Senate expense scandal.

We know that the Liberals like using the hashtags #realchange and #raisethebar, but we are less certain about whether they really believe in those things.

Will the Prime Minister do the right thing and really raise the bar on accountability?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we will continue to do just that. In 2013, the Liberal Party brought openness and proactive disclosure to Parliament. I must admit that it was surprising when the Conservatives immediately got on board and the New Democrats were the ones who were not interested in proactive disclosure. Given the situation with the satellite offices, we now see why, and we understand their approach to ethics.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister once said, “Canadians asked for open and honest government; instead they have been saddled with secrecy, cynicism and rampant ethical scandals.” He was talking about the Duffy scandal, but I understand your confusion, Mr. Speaker, because he could have said the exact same thing about his own government.

When exactly does the Prime Minister think his sunny ways are going to clean up the government's secrecy, cynicism, and scandals?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we in the Liberal Party and this government have always believed that sunshine is the best disinfectant. That is why we have moved forward on openness and transparency in ways that, yes, perhaps open us to a few more attacks from the members opposite, but ultimately create the confidence that Canadians must have in their democratic institutions—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order. I have to wonder if some folks had too much sugar last night.

The right hon. Prime Minister has the floor.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we will continue to take very seriously the trust that Canadians placed in us by remaining open, transparent, and accountable to the opposition and to Canadians.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, for three weeks now the Prime Minister has been telling us that his Minister of Finance is not in a conflict of interest. Just yesterday, he even repeated it several times throughout question period. Now that the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner has sanctioned his finance minister for conflict of interest, the conclusion is clear: we know that the Prime Minister was aware of it.

I have a simple question. At what point did the Prime Minister know that his finance minister was in a direct conflict of interest and was breaking the law?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as I already said many times, the Minister of Finance has worked with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner to ensure that he is always in full compliance; he has even gone beyond what the commissioner originally asked of him.

If the member opposite would like to talk numbers, I have numbers for him. Fully 20,060 children in Richmond—Arthabaska received on average $580 per family thanks to the Canada child benefit. That is what the finance minister brought in. We are making a difference for them and for everyone.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am looking forward to the day when the Prime Minister learns to answer simple questions. The Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner confirmed that the Minister of Finance broke the law. She even confirmed that the penalty for the offence had been paid, proving that the Prime Minister was already aware of the commissioner's decision yesterday.

The Prime Minister can do whatever he wants in an attempt to deny the facts, but his efforts will change absolutely nothing: his minister broke the law.

Is the Prime Minister telling us that his Minister of Finance is above the law? Would he like to say that directly to Canadians?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, once again, we understand that the opposition has to ask difficult questions and even level baseless accusations to do its job and keep the government on its toes. That is important. That is how our democratic system works. However, we must also remember that we have commissioners like the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner to ensure that everyone is following the rules and that respect for our institutions and their rules transcends the kind of partisanship we are seeing from the opposition. We will continue to demonstrate our faith in the commissioner and the fact that Canadians deserve to have faith in us.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, ironically, I think this is the only time that the Prime Minister is not trying to make something about himself.

For two years, the finance minister led Canadians to believe that his assets were in a blind trust, and that was untrue. For two years, the finance minister has led the House to believe that he complied with the rules of the Ethics Commissioner. That was also untrue. The minister has been fined. The minister broke the law. Is this the higher standard that the Prime Minister says he is holding his ministers to? When will the Prime Minister tell us when he knew that the minister had broken the law?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the member opposite is right: this House should not be about any individual one of us, but about the impact we have on Canadians. Let me talk about Canadians. Let me talk about young people in Milton. Let me talk about the 25,630 children in Milton who are receiving an average of $520 per family because of the Canada child benefit. We gave them that benefit because, unlike the Conservatives, we believe in helping those who need it.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister indicated earlier that we are just throwing noise at him. Well, I speak on behalf of the parents of those 25,630 children and they want to know exactly what is going on with the finance minister breaking the law. The finance minister's mandate letter from the Prime Minister said, “I expect you to embody these values in your work and observe the highest ethical standards in everything you do.” It is kind of like what we as parents teach our children, but here is the difference. When did the Prime Minister know that the minister broke the law and was not abiding by the—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

The right hon. Prime Minister.