Debates of Feb. 23rd, 2017

Opposition Motion—Impact of Carbon Taxes

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I am going to remind the members to be careful with the words they use. The contributions that members give in the House are all very important. We may have differing opinions, but we also need to be respectful of that.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Glengarry—Prescott—Russell.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Madam Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Vancouver Quadra.

We are committed to building a strong, diverse, and competitive Canadian economy. Current global dynamics favour transitioning to a low-carbon economy. The market for effective, clean technologies is growing rapidly, and the cost of renewable energy continues to drop exponentially.

It was good news when the Paris agreement was adopted in December 2015. This was a historic event that sent the international community the clear message that we need to take action against climate change. Canada can be proud of the role it played on the international stage to advance the adoption of the Paris agreement. We committed to reducing our greenhouse gas emissions by 30% below 2005 levels by 2030.

We now have a realistic plan to meet that goal while building our resilience against the effects of a changing climate and while continuing to grow our economy. The pan-Canadian framework on clean growth and climate change is an ambitious and comprehensive plan that was developed in close co-operation with the provinces, the territories, and indigenous peoples. It takes into account the input of many experts and stakeholders, as well as Canadians' priorities.

The pan-Canadian framework is built on four pillars: pricing carbon pollution; complementary actions to reduce emissions; adaptation and climate resilience; and supporting clean technologies, innovation, and jobs. Action taken based on these pillars will help drive economic growth and create jobs while ensuring innovation, creating investment opportunities, and reducing potential climate risks.

Pricing carbon pollution is one pillar of the pan-Canadian framework, because economists agree that it is the most cost-effective way to reduce climate change and carbon pollution. Based on the flexible approach we plan to take, jurisdictions across Canada can invest their carbon pricing revenues as they see fit, whether by reducing other taxes, helping their businesses and households, or investing in new innovative technologies.

The pan-Canadian framework also includes complementary actions to reduce emissions. These actions will reduce emissions while growing the economy by cutting costs for Canadians, creating new markets for low-carbon goods and services, and helping businesses use cleaner and more efficient technologies that give them a leg up on international competitors.

For example, we are working with the provinces and territories to find ways to build more energy-efficient buildings. Canada's construction industry is worth $161 billion and employs well over a million people. My brother is a contractor, actually.

The new building codes will foster innovation and help Canadian companies develop more efficient construction techniques and technologies. Investing in modernization to improve energy efficiency is a fantastic way to create jobs. Such investments benefit communities, create local jobs, and shrink energy costs. When our buildings use less energy, people save more money.

Helping businesses consume energy more efficiently is another priority. Federal, provincial, and territorial governments agreed to work together under the pan-Canadian framework to help industries save energy and money. One way to do that is to help them adopt energy management systems.

The federal government has already invested in infrastructure, clean technology, and mitigation measures through the low carbon economy fund to support business growth and job creation.

According to the Minister of Finance, initial infrastructure investments in budget 2016 will bump GDP up by 0.2% in 2016-17 and 0.4% in 2017-18. The pan-Canadian framework will help create jobs and stimulate short-term economic growth by investing in energy efficiency and infrastructure projects.

Canada's climate change action plan will make the most of short-term economic growth opportunities and look ahead to the future.

By taking action now, we are paving the road to success. We have to maintain our long-term competitiveness in a global low-carbon economy and thereby build a better future for our children and grandchildren. We are the first generation to feel the effects of climate change and we are the last generation that can slow down climate change.

There is growing evidence that the effects of climate change caused by global emissions have real and mounting economic implications. Insurance claims following extreme weather events in Canada ran at $373 million annually from 1983 to 2004, but have risen to $1.2 billion annually in the past decade.

The National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy estimates that the economic impacts of climate change in Canada might reach $5 billion annually by 2020 and between $21 billion and $43 billion annually by 2050. That is why we must take action now.

We have the opportunity to make sound investments that will not only reduce the risks associated with climate change but also help Canadians save money. For example, the Red River Floodway was built in 1968 for $63 million. A total of $627 million was invested to expand that floodway, which has saved the City of Winnipeg over $40 billion in flood disaster relief since 1968.

Our approach to climate change is based on risk management and knowing which opportunities to pursue.

There is already a global market of over $5,800 billion for low-carbon goods and services, and the value of that market should continue to increase by 3% a year. Canada is already home to more than 750 clean technology businesses. Many of them are SMEs, and some of them will grow into large corporations and major employers.

The industry already employs more Canadians than the forestry industry, the pharmaceutical industry, and the medical device manufacturing industry. The measures taken as part of the pan-Canadian framework will create the right conditions to ensure the prosperity of innovative Canadian businesses and drive job creation now and in the future.

We have the opportunity to take action on climate change, while developing a strong, innovative, and resilient Canadian economy. Thanks to the pan-Canadian framework, we will seize this opportunity. As we implement this plan, we will monitor our progress and report on it in a transparent manner to continue proving that what is good for the environment is also good for the economy.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Madam Speaker, the member did not touch upon the thrust of today's motion.

My question is very simple. Does the member support his government in the withholding of key statistics or numbers of analysis by Finance Canada, paid for by the public? It is being withheld, making it more difficult for us to even have an intelligent conversation about a public policy position that the government has made one of its most important measures.

Does the member agree with and support that, or does he believe that evidence-based decision-making in a democracy means sharing that information and allowing the people's representatives to debate, and then ultimately the people he represents, I represent, and we all represent here can make their own decision?

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Madam Speaker, as the member knows, not all provinces have implemented a price on carbon yet, so it would be too presumptuous to provide an analysis on that.

On that, I find it very ironic that it is the member for Carleton who put this motion forward, when he, himself, and that member, voted in favour of a cap-and-trade system in 2008 in the throne speech. They voted for an Ottawa-based approach. They voted to implement a system like those of Saskatchewan, Alberta, Ontario, Quebec, and all provinces.

What the member from Ottawa, the Minister of Environment and Climate Change, has done is a decentralized approach. We have said, “Here is our plan, but you guys go ahead and implement your own plan.” That is the real—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I just want to remind the member for Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, that he was afforded the opportunity to ask the question, and I would ask for his respect to afford the member the opportunity to respond. If members are not in agreement with what is being said, they can always get up again and attempt to ask a question.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Madam Speaker, I just want to apologize to the member opposite. Obviously these issues are close to us, and I do take your advice rather well.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his speech. He is quite right to not accept any lectures on transparency from the former government.

I appreciated all the points he made about the positive prospects of the clean technologies for sustainable development associated with the implementation of this system. However, I would like to bring him back to the present situation given that the Conservatives like to talk about consumers who are unable to pay their bills. They are not wrong about that.

I would like to ask the member why it is taking so long for the Liberal government to restore the home energy efficiency program.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Madam Speaker, we have adopted a decentralized carbon pricing approach. It is up to the provinces to decide whether they want to give consumers grants or tax credits. I know that some provinces are already doing this.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Madam Speaker, particularly since the hon. member is a member of Parliament from Ontario, I want to address this conflation of electricity prices in Ontario, which have a lot to do with stranded nuclear debt, a lot to do with institutional problems within Ontario Hydro, and equating them with the impact of a carbon tax. As far as I can see from the information available, the cap and trade program of Ontario, Quebec, and California has yet to really take root and actually reduce greenhouse gases or bring in revenues to Ontario.

Does the hon. member agree that the electricity price in Ontario cannot be laid at the door of a carbon price?

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Madam Speaker, it will be a brief answer: absolutely.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Treasury Board]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to speak to the motion of the member for Carleton today.

I do have to say it is unfortunate to witness the Conservative members continuing alarmist attacks on pricing carbon pollution. It takes me back many years. It takes me back to 15 years ago, when I was British Columbia's environment minister and that was the argument of the day.

As we know, British Columbia's experience after having implemented a price on pollution 10 years ago is that, in most of the years since, emissions have dropped while the economy has grown; in fact, grown faster than anywhere else in the country.

I do encourage the members opposite to notice that the world has moved on from these kinds of arguments and that even many members of the business community and industry support the opportunity that pricing carbon creates for innovating and growing our clean energy economy.

I would like them to notice that the international community has moved on and has come together to commit to reducing greenhouse gas emissions to ensure that warming stays below 2° centigrade, and hopefully 1.5° centigrade.

Moreover, in the current Liberal government's pan-Canadian framework, it will be up to the provinces and territories themselves to decide what tool to use to ensure that greenhouse gas emissions are reduced, and as to the funds that are raised through whatever mechanism they use, it will be up to the provinces and territories to determine how they are returned to their public.

I will use my opportunity to speak to this motion to discuss its aspect around open and transparent government. That is one of the key themes of the motion, and it is one of the key themes of this government. That vision comes from the top.

In his mandate letter to the President of the Treasury Board, the Prime Minister stressed the importance of these values for Canadians. He said:

We have also committed to set a higher bar for openness and transparency in government. It is time to shine more light on government to ensure it remains focused on the people it serves. Government and its information should be open by default.

All of the cabinet ministers got that same message in their mandate letters.

The fact that Canadians, members of Parliament, citizens, and the media can see these letters and hold the government to account is the proof in the pudding of our Prime Minister's commitment. It sets the tone for a more modern, open approach to government.

In fact, our guiding principle is that government information belongs to the people it serves and should be open by default. Open by default means publicly releasing government data and information to Canadians, except in limited situations, which we all understand are for reasons such as privacy, confidentiality, and security. It also means ensuring, wherever feasible, that requesters receive information in modern and easy to use formats.

Let me be clear. We are facing a cultural shift in this government's way of doing business. We are talking about reversing the onus.

Instead of asking individuals to justify why they should have the information, the onus is increasingly on the government to provide it except if there are privacy, confidentiality, or security reasons not to.

Rather than wait for Canadians to go looking for the information they want, we make that information easier to find by making our operations more open and transparent.

Access to information is a good example of that.

Last May, we waived all fees for these requests for information, apart from the $5 filing fee. These fees were waived to enhance Canadians' access to government information.

We intend to introduce legislation that will bring forward other important improvements to the act. It is our hope that the House will pass this legislation. Then, after our first round of commitments has been enacted, the President of the Treasury Board will begin the proposed first full mandatory five-year review of the act in 2018.

The access to information review is a major component of our third biennial plan for open government.

This plan was released last July after extensive in-person and online consultations. It is part of our international relationship with the Open Government Partnership and its 75 members.

The President of the Treasury Board announced that Canada will take a leadership role to improve transparency and open government worldwide. In December, he announced that Canada would adopt the international Open Data Charter, and Canada is a candidate for a seat on the Open Government Partnership steering committee.

These are key parts of our international commitment to openness and transparency, and they will support strategic partnerships with governments and civil society organizations here and around the world. The shared global principles expressed in the Open Data Charter reflect our ongoing commitment to ensure government data is open by default.

For example, we are expanding and enhancing the government's open data and access to it. The government has a massive store of raw data that can transform how public servants make decisions, how people interact with government, and how organizations innovate.

We believe it is essential to make as much information as possible available to the public, charities, and so on. We have made a lot of progress, as people can see when they visit open.canada.ca.

We will do even more. We will increase the diversity, timeliness, and quality of this data. In addition, we have committed to streamlining requests for government information from citizens, including their own personal information. To that end, we will be creating a simple central website where Canadians can submit such requests to any federal institution.

It is hard to fully grasp just how much an open government could improve the world. That is why Canada has committed to providing open data training to governments and civil society groups in developing countries, for example.

That is why in last year's budget we doubled existing resources for open government initiatives. Beyond our new open government plan and its 22 commitments we are also fostering more open debate and more free votes in Parliament. We are working to reform the budgets and estimates processes to help parliamentarians hold the government to account. In fact, we are also inviting our subject matter experts in government, including scientists, to speak publicly about their work.

In closing, let me emphasize that open and transparent government puts government data in the hands of citizens as a vital resource in a digital world. It helps ensure the integrity of our public institution and strengthens trust in democracy. It stimulates innovation. It stimulates public engagement. We will continue to champion it for Canadians.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Madam Speaker, I think that increasingly Canadians are coming to realize that what the Liberal Party promises and what it actually delivers in government are two very different things. The member talked repeatedly about transparency, and that is exactly what this motion is calling for. It is calling for the release of information that has been created by Finance Canada officials. We have asked for those tables to be released to the House so that we can make an informed decision.

We had a similar situation at the natural resources committee where we asked the government to conduct an economic impact assessment of the carbon tax on the natural resource sector before proceeding, and to release that information. The government refused. That tells me that either the government has not done an economic analysis and is flying blind when it comes to the impact on natural resources, or it refuses to release it to Canadians.

Of the things the member indicated, privacy, confidentiality, or national security, which is it that prevents the government from releasing this data to Canadians?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Speaker, as I mentioned in my remarks, the pan-Canadian framework is about empowering the provinces and territories to have their own plans, so the impact of pricing carbon pollution, whether it be about stimulating the clean energy economy, whether it be about strengthening the clusters of innovation in academia, or whether it be about reducing poverty by returning proceeds of pricing carbon to lowest income Canadians, that will be up to the provinces to decide.

Frankly, this is just more effort to cover up the fact that the Conservatives have been attacking taking action on climate change as long as I have been in the House with alarmist claims that are counterproductive to the future of the country.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Madam Speaker, I wonder whether the member could comment more on the impacts of inaction on climate change. The national round table on the environment and the economy published the last analysis on those impacts. It said inaction would cost about $5 billion a year in Canada. We have that. We have not had much since because the national round table on the environment and the economy was disbanded by the previous government.

Perhaps she would have some quick comments on the impacts of inaction and whether the government will bring back that round table.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Speaker, those who are paying attention to the issue of climate change and the chaos that we risk internationally because of its impacts, with the floods, the fires, and the droughts, like the member who asked the question, understand the kinds of devastation that are already occurring through long-term historic droughts that are driving populations out of their homes and farms. There are so many impacts I cannot even begin to list them. There are local impacts and international impacts. There are impacts on security and defence. There are great economic impacts and risks that have been identified by respected international bodies and experts over years, if not decades, so we know it is time to act and end the kind of game playing that we are seeing from the Conservative Party.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Madam Speaker, my question is quite simple. If it is so good, so great, so important, so essential to have a Liberal carbon tax, why do the Liberals hide all the information from the Canadian taxpayer?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Madam Speaker, as I have already said, our government is committed to improving the openness of information. We have already used a number of tools and taken a number of steps to achieve that. We will continue this project because our objective is to make information more open and transparent for Canadians.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Madam Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the wonderful member for York—Simcoe.

I am pleased to rise to discuss today's motion which calls upon the Liberals to end their carbon tax cover-up and release the Department of Finance's documents on the impact of carbon pricing on households and estimating the economic impacts from various carbon taxes.

This issue is particularly important to me as I represent constituents who have been hard hit by continued tax grabs and high unemployment. My constituents are hurting. Forcing them to pay more for gasoline, heat, and power is not what they need. They need tax relief.

With so many issues, the Liberal government says, “Just trust us. This is the right thing to do.” Whether it is huge deficits, the Liberal Phoenix fiasco, which is celebrating its first anniversary this week, sole-sourcing the Super Hornet jets, or promises to govern ethically and transparently, the government has shown repeatedly it cannot be trusted, and so with any policy, it is fair for us to ask on behalf of our constituents for the information mentioned in the motion.

That we have to devote an opposition day motion to this issue speaks to the lengths the government will go to cover up the impact of its tax hikes. It refuses to disclose these documents because the facts do not fit with its political narrative. This is unacceptable to Canadians who deserve to know exactly what they can expect to pay in higher taxes.

I want to quote someone here:

...Canadians need to have faith in their government's honesty and willingness to listen. That is why we committed to set a higher bar for openness and transparency in Ottawa. Governments and its information must be open by default. Simply put, it is time to shine more light on government to make sure it remains focused on the people it was created to serve.

That was said by our current Prime Minister, and for once, I actually agree with what he says, although I do not agree with what he is doing.

Information should be open by default. The finance minister should, by default, release the information of the impact of the carbon tax.

Members on this side of the House are concerned about the impact of the Liberal carbon tax because estimates indicate that families could expect to pay up to $2,500 extra every year in new taxes. Families can expect to pay up to 15% more on their natural gas bill, up to 10% more on their power bill, and an extra 11.5¢ per litre for gasoline.

Governments will tax elastic behaviour that has been deemed as bad as a means of eliminating that behaviour, but here is the problem: Heating our homes, turning on our lights, having hot water, and buying groceries are not optional. It seems a little ridiculous that I have to say this, but Canada is cold. Our climate is not conducive to using just less heat, and Canadians do not have the option of turning it off. In winter, Canada is dark. Canadians do not have the choice to decide whether to turn their lights off. The Liberals think that heating our homes is a choice to be taxed, but it is not a choice and all of us as Canadians end up paying higher taxes. The government gets richer and Canadians just get poorer.

The Minister of Environment and Climate Change continues to justify this flawed idea by saying that this corporation or that corporation supports a carbon tax. Some do, as they can simply download the price of the tax onto consumers.

I am sure the government has written a manual they call, “how to help the middle class and those working to join it”. Someone on that side of the House did a really lousy job of editing it because they have left in chapters titled, “how to make them pay higher prices” and “how to make them pay higher taxes”.

It follows logically that businesses will shift the burden of the carbon tax. They have a bottom line to meet. They have numbers that have to be hit. The government does not care because it will still get its tax revenue and get an endorsement from groups which do not hold the burden of the Liberal tax. For members opposite, it is practically a win-win, but there is a loser in this equation. It is those Canadians I mentioned earlier who are being forced to pay thousands more in taxes. That is the extent of the warning, that it could be thousands of dollars, because the government cannot even be open and transparent about the numbers used by its own department.

I have to ask, just how bad are the numbers that the Liberals are trying to hide from us? If they will not be open with the facts, and they even vote down the tabling of the blacked-out report the member for Carleton has tried repeatedly to table, how can Canadians learn how much they will be forced to pay?

Reporting on the blacked-out finance department report that the member for Carleton obtained, David Akin of the National Post said that the author is “crystal clear on this point: Pricing carbon, be it through a carbon tax or a cap-and-trade system, will hit consumers in the pocketbook.”

The author of the finance department report states:

These higher costs would then cascade through the economy in the form of higher prices, thus leading all firms and consumers to pay more for goods and services with higher carbon content.

It is in the finance minister's mandate letter to engage meaningfully with the opposition. Yet, when the member for Carleton asked the finance minister repeatedly to just release the unredacted report, the minister simply gives us talking points.

In January, I sent around a survey to my constituents with a simple question, "Do you support a carbon tax?" This is what people on the ground are saying, and the Liberals should listen. Keep in mind that my constituents have already been hit with a carbon tax, so they know of what they speak.

One of my constituents said, “I don't believe the Liberals know how much this tax will affect the average family, or those on a senior's pension.” We think they do know, but they just will not release the information.

Another said, “I am a single mom, trying to educate and raise 2 kids on my own. Added taxes are not exactly what I am looking for.” She is probably looking for tax relief, but the Liberals have already cut out her sports tax credit, her education tax credit, and clawed back her TFSA. Where is her help?

Another said, “I am barely hanging onto my job because of cutbacks. I have become the working poor but I am still a taxpayer. Stop this tax please.” That is the forgotten aspect of this conversation. The Minister of Environment repeatedly references the praise of businesses and corporations for the carbon tax, but where is the praise from Canadians on this issue? This constituent is barely hanging onto his job, but at least some corporations are on board.

Another wrote in to say, “I struggle to pay my bills as it is—especially in the winter when gas consumption is highest.” This gets to the heart of the problem the Liberals will not address. Rather than openly provide information that they have about the impact of this tax, the Liberals accuse members on this side of the House of burying our heads in the sand and being deniers, because calling us names is easier than facing the hard truth: This tax will not help.

The Liberal carbon tax will hurt families, because it taxes things that Canadians have no choice but to buy. Rural Canadians cannot just take the bus instead of driving their cars. Not every Canadian is a millionaire who can buy a Tesla with a taxpayer subsidy courtesy of the Prime Minister's friend Kathleen Wynne. And no Canadian can just turn off the heat.

It is not just individuals who will be forced to pay higher taxes. Places of worship, charities, food banks, organizations that help our communities cannot just pass along the tax. We have a jobs crisis in Alberta right now that the government has systematically refused to address. Food bank usage is up 60% this year, and the Liberals want the food bank to pay higher taxes. I am curious about what the government thinks. I wonder if it thinks that the food bank can simply raise prices to customers.

Policies should promote good behaviour. I personally think that food banks are excellent organizations with a meaningful purpose. I would not tax them more. What would I do? Members on this side of the House advocate evidence-based policies that can have a meaningful impact.

In 2012, it was the Conservative government that established regulations to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from the coal-fired electricity sector. We were the first country to ban the construction of traditional coal units under these guidelines. Our previous Conservative government also pursued a responsible sector-by-sector approach to regulate methane emissions in alignment with the United States, because we know that joint initiatives in alignment with our North American allies will lead to significant environmental improvements.

We also know that while Canadians can have a meaningful impact in the world, we will never solve the problem of excessive greenhouse gas emissions without buy-in from the world's biggest polluters. Lost in Liberal spin is the simple fact that our previous government was the first Canadian government in history to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

We are not going to solve the problem by punishing everyday Canadians for living every day. I will not advocate policies that punish a constituent because he or she needs to drive a great distance to work. I will not advocate policies that punish my constituents for daring to heat their homes in the winter.

The government should practise what it preaches. The Department of Finance should be open and transparent. It should release the documents it has showing the cost of carbon taxes on Canadian workers, businesses, and families.

I want to read from the finance minister's mandate letter:

It is important that we acknowledge mistakes when we make them.

Well, the finance minister should admit his mistake in covering up the costs of the carbon tax and tell us the truth. Canadian workers, businesses, and families, above all, deserve to know.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Madam Speaker, my hon. colleague said that his constituents in Edmonton West all need tax cuts. Does he see that they at some point want a healthy environment, too, and an appropriate legacy for our children and grandchildren?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Madam Speaker, my constituents are very clear. Things are difficult in Alberta. There have been excessive job losses, and the government has done nothing for them except spout talking points. They want tax relief. Yes, they want a strong environment, but they do not want to be taxed for no reason. They also want the government to be open and transparent and to stop hiding the truth about what these taxes are going to cost them.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Madam Speaker, I have a question for my colleague.

I find the shift in the rhetoric being used rather deplorable. I hear my colleague talking about this government getting richer. It seems to me that this Republican-style rhetoric comes to us from south of the border.

I want to ask the member, very simply, what he recommends that Canada do to contribute to the fight against climate change.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Madam Speaker, as I mentioned earlier in my speech, which perhaps my colleague was not listening to, the previous Conservative government, by working with its allies and industries, was the very first government in history to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Last week we heard the laughable comment from the other side that this was because of all the great stuff Kathleen Wynne was doing. The reality is that the economy grew at the same time as greenhouse gas emissions were reduced. The economy is not going to grow by taxing people, and the government knows it.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Madam Speaker, the member talked about how the carbon tax is not going to fix the problem, and I thought about Australia, which implemented a carbon tax. It found that it drove the cost of everything up for everybody and that the major contributors were not doing their part, so it got rid of that tax and learned its lesson.

I heard the member opposite say that he wants to know if Conservatives want to help the environment. We do, but the fact remains that Canada could eliminate its entire footprint and it would not have any significant impact on global warming. I wonder if my colleague could comment on that.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Madam Speaker, we chatted with people from the Australian government. They told us that over a two-year period, they took $16 billion of taxpayers' money out of the economy through their carbon tax, and it resulted in, oddly enough, an increase in greenhouse gas emissions in Australia, which is why they got rid of it. It was very clear that the true fact was that the carbon tax did nothing, and in fact, even with taking out a huge percentage of its GDP, greenhouse gas emissions still increased.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Madam Speaker, we are revisiting historical information in the House, which is useful to do, but let us not put on rose-coloured glasses looking backward. The only reason, and I underscore “only”, that greenhouse gases dropped during the years of the Harper administration was due to the 2008 financial crisis. Unless the Conservatives want to take credit for engineering a global financial collapse, I do not think they can identify that dip in greenhouse gases with any government policy. In fact, as soon as our economy began to improve, greenhouse gases began to rise once again.

We are way overdue to be serious about reducing greenhouse gases in this country.