Debates of May 17th, 2017

Democratic Reform

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), the House will now resolve itself into committee of the whole to study all votes under Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development in the main estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2018.

I do now leave the chair for the House to resolve itself into committee of the whole.

(Consideration in committee of the whole of all votes under Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development in the main estimates, Mrs. Carol Hughes in the chair.)

Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development—Main Estimates, 2016-17

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Tonight's debate is a general one on the votes under Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development. The first round will begin with the official opposition, followed by the government and the New Democratic Party. After that, we will follow the usual proportional rotation.

Each member will be allocated 15 minutes at a time, which may be used for both debate or for posing questions. Members wishing to use this time to make a speech have a maximum of 10 minutes, which leaves at least 5 minutes for questions to the minister. When a member is recognized, he or she should indicate to the Chair how the 15-minute period will be used, in other words, how much time will be spent on the speech and how much time will be used for questions and answers.

Members should also note that they will need the unanimous consent of the committee to split their time with another member. When the time is to be used for questions and comments, the Chair will expect that the minister's response will reflect approximately the time taken by the question, as that time counts toward the time allocated to the party.

I also wish to indicate that in committee of the whole, comments should be addressed to the Chair. I ask for everyone's co-operation in upholding all established standards of decorum, parliamentary language, and behaviour.

We will now begin tonight's session.

The House in committee of the whole, pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), consideration in committee of the whole of the votes under Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development in the main estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2018.

The hon. member for Thornhill.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, I will be using my full time for questions. Let me begin by thanking the ministers for their attendance tonight. While I and my colleagues will have any number of questions regarding line items in the estimates, we will also examine and question policies and performance, following the great parliamentary tradition of regressive grievances before the granting of supply.

I will first begin by asking the minister for an update on the Canada-China high-level national security and rule of law dialogue, specifically the discussions on the extradition treaty and transfer of offenders treaty sought by China.

Just to avoid any etymological or grammatical quibbling on negotiation or discussion, Oxford Canada tells us that negotiations in pursuit of an objective, or treaty, are in fact negotiations.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Madam Chair, as I have said in the House before, protection of human rights is an integral part of our government's policy and something I am personally, deeply committed to.

Let me repeat that Canada and China are not extradition partners, and there are no extradition treaty negotiations. I can say that I have engaged in no such talks. As with all cases internationally, our government is firmly committed to the protection of human rights, the rule of law, and due process.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, China believes it is in negotiation, and the intention of the statement was to pursue discussions with an objective of a treaty.

Let me continue with regard to China. I am wondering what specific messages, since the minister assumed her current post, have been communicated by the Government of Canada to China with respect to China's reprehensible human rights record: extrajudicial detention; torture; organ harvesting; and any number of other international, and certainly under Canadian law, unacceptable practices.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, the member for Thornhill began by commenting on comments by the Chinese leadership.

I would like to remind the member for Thornhill that I am paid in Canadian dollars and not in renminbi, so I will restrict my comments to the position of our own government.

As to human rights, we raise human rights at every opportunity when speaking to all governments, including the Government of China. As the member opposite knows, I am running out of time. The Prime Minister raised this issue both during our visit to China and when Premier Li was here. It is a core Canadian objective.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, China's new ambassador to Canada, Mr. Lu Shaye, is demanding that China be allowed to negotiate in all sectors of the Canadian economy but has bluntly said that security concerns about state-owned enterprises and human rights abuses are simply not up for discussion.

How have you responded to that messaging?

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I just want to remind the member for Thornhill that he is to address the questions to the Chair.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, as the member for Thornhill and I are both former journalists, it perhaps leads to a more informal mode of discourse.

I have not yet had the pleasure of meeting the new ambassador from China. As I said before, human rights are core to Canada's foreign policy agenda. We will always raise human rights.

When it comes to all negotiations I take part in, what the other party says is not in any way equivalent to what Canada will put on the table.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, at least four Canadian citizens are currently in different sorts of detention in China today: Chinese Canadian billionaire Xiao Jianhua, who was kidnapped from his Hong Kong residence and transported to China and who has not communicated clearly and independently, freely, on his state and status; Sun Qian, a Falun Gong practitioner and a resident of Vancouver, detained since February; and two Canadians, John Chong and his wife Allison, detained for a year now in conditions in violation of international trade law.

We are accustomed to Global Affairs and the parliamentary secretary using privacy, and the interests of the prisoners, as a justification for no comment. However, in the recent release of unjustly held and tortured prisoners in China and in Iran, and I am talking about the Garretts in one case and Professor Hoodfar in another, while Canada welcomed these unjustly held and persecuted individuals back to Canada, there was not a single word of criticism for the absolutely unacceptable behaviour of their Chinese jailers and the government.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, as the member for Thornhill knows very well, consular cases are among the issues that any Canadian government, certainly our government, and I, as foreign minister, take the most personally. These Canadians are often suffering extremely difficult situations abroad. I take extremely seriously my duty toward them.

I would like to thank the member opposite for mentioning the success we have had in some consular cases. In my view, a single Canadian detained abroad unfairly is one too many, and this a duty that all governments have.

It was quite a moving moment for us here when former prime minister Brian Mulroney spoke to a cabinet committee. He was thanked by one of my colleagues, the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities, for the work that Brian Mulroney's government did to secure his release. Prime Minister Mulroney then joked, “You could have at least run for the Conservatives”.

On the specific Chinese cases the member opposite mentioned, I am very personally seized of them. Ms. Sun, Mr. John Chang, and a number of other cases in China, and very much in Iran, are cases of which the department is seized. I am personally engaged in them, as is my outstanding parliamentary secretary.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, will the Government of Canada publicly support Taiwan's request for its traditional role as observer at the World Health Assembly? I say it in the context of no Government of Canada public protest or comment last year when China pressured ICAO, the International Civil Aviation Organization, in Montreal, Canada, to have Taiwan excluded as a traditional observer and, in fact, pressured the organization to prevent a Canadian journalist of Taiwanese origin from covering that event.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, Canada has consistently supported Taiwanese participation in international organizations where there is a practical imperative and where Taiwan's absence would be detrimental to global interests. Indeed, as the minister of trade, I had the privilege of participating in a number of APEC meetings at which Taiwan, as an economy, was present and represented.

Global health is a global responsibility. Germs do not know any borders. We welcome participation from all civil society and the entire global community, including Taiwan. We all have a stake when it comes to the health of humanity.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, could the minister answer this question in the light of the continuing increasingly aggressive posture of the regime in North Korea? What, if any, contribution is Canada prepared to make to defend and protect the people of South Korea?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, we condemn, in the strongest possible terms, the ongoing provocative actions by North Korea, including its most recent ballistic missile tests. This is a blatant disregard for international law and it is a direct threat to international peace and security, very much including Canada's peace and security. I have discussed this issue with our international partners, including this week and including at the G7. Canada is a Pacific nation. We are very much engaged.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, does the minister believe that enough has been done by Canada to assist Venezuelan sick and and starving civilians persecuted by a dictatorial government and trying to get these essential medicines, food, and relief supplies to the people who need those supplies the most?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, I was hoping the member for Thornhill, or someone, would ask me about Venezuela, because this issue is a very great priority for Canada and for me personally.

On April 3, I was very proud that Canada was able to co-sponsor an OAS resolution, calling on Venezuela to restore constitutional order and respect for democracy. Yesterday the Prime Minister met with Lilian Tintori and Antonieta de Lopez to discuss the situation in Venezuela and the detention of opposition leader, Leopoldo Lopez. I cannot say anymore about it, but I have more to say.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, I have more questions on that subject.

This question is based on the fact that for the past year and a half, the Liberal government has dragged its feet on implementing Magnitsky style sanctions, in a global sense, not only against Russia but against other human rights abusers, quite applicable these days with regard to Venezuela. Given the unanimous foreign affairs committee recommendations to the government, could the minister tell us when the government will accept those recommendations and implement Magnitsky?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, as the member for Thornhill knows, this is an issue of which I am very personally aware and focused on. Bill Browder, who is the initiator of many of the Magnitsky efforts worldwide, has been a friend for more than two decades. I am very aware of Senator Raynell Andreychuk's bill and also of the fine report by the committee. It was really great to have a report that had support of all members, from all parties, of the committee.

We have been studying that report closely and I will have more to say about it. We have another three hours and 45 minutes, and I will have more to say about it tonight.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, there were 13 recommendations in the report of the foreign affairs committee. I would hope, in the hours to come, the minister considers the government's position on accepting the other 12 recommendations in addition to what I seem to be reading with regard to her comment on the Magnitsky style of sanctions.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, as I said, the committee's work on Magnitsky and international human rights really is an example that does not happen that often, but sometimes does in the House. I want to very much include the NDP in this. There were some areas, and I think Canadian values are probably one of those areas, where we were able to work together and achieve a strong result for our whole country and for the world.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, perhaps it is an example for the government to listen to other committees of the House, as well, in areas like electoral reform.

Could the minister tell us how many times Canadian officials have met with Iranian officials? What was the nature of these meetings? Is there a line somewhere in the estimates with regard to the allotment of financial investment in a new Canadian mission?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Madam Chair, as we discussed, I believe, last week, and as we spoke about in the media, we have indeed had a trip by officials, Canadian diplomats, to Iran, principally to raise consular issues, as we discussed earlier this evening. Those are really important and I feel a real duty personally toward those people. As we discussed openly, I did speak to the Iranian foreign minister on the phone.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, I would hope that the Government of Canada, in its talks with the government of Iran, will remember the concerns our government had for the security of our foreign service professionals when we closed that mission in 2012.