Debates of May 2nd, 2017

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #258

Privilege

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

I declare the motion carried.

The House resumed from May 1 consideration of the motion, of the amendment, and of the amendment to the amendment.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak to this question of privilege which I originally raised three weeks ago.

It is unfortunate that we must raise this issue today under the threat of a closure guillotine which was introduced once again by the Liberal government House leader. It hearkens to a time many decades ago, 60 years in fact, when a similar issue came before the House and closure was undertaken by a then Liberal government. In 1956, a Conservative member of Parliament by the name of Donald Fleming had this to say of closure in the House:

The minority in the house does not speak by leave of the majority.... No, the minority in a free parliament speaks as of right.

What has been done today has been to deprive the minority in the House of their right. Those who have forced closure on the House are attempting to create a Parliament in which there is no place for an opposition. This is what we see happening by the Liberal government. The government is attempting to turn the House not into a debating chamber, not into a place of free expression by all hon. members, but rather into a place in which the Liberal executive dominates the legislative branch.

The quotation I just read came from the pipeline debate in 1956 in this chamber, where members of all parties debated vociferously for weeks on end. In fact, that debate itself ended in a grave question of privilege, one which continues to have ramifications to this very day.

I would dare say that if C.D. Howe were alive today to see the actions being undertaken by the Liberal government, he would blush with shame. Even C.D. Howe would be ashamed of the heavy-handed tactics being undertaken by the Liberal government.

We debate today a question of privilege, the privilege of hon. members of this place to freely attend and to have free movement within the parliamentary precinct. It was a question of privilege I raised not lightly in response to the first question of privilege being killed by the Liberal government.

Of fundamental importance is that we as parliamentarians, we as members of Parliament, we as the duly elected representatives of our constituents, are free to debate, are free to speak in this place, and are free to vote, and respect the wishes of our constituents. This did not happen on March 22, budget day. Two members of Parliament, the member for Beauce and the member for Milton, were denied their right to vote.

Free movement within this place is absolutely essential when the bells are ringing, when we are being called to a vote. It is a fundamental right which should not be tampered or tempered with, yet that is what happened. Two members of Parliament were denied their right to vote in this chamber. Imagine for a minute, two members of Parliament, representing 105,000 constituents each, did not have the opportunity to rise in their place, as is their right, and cast their vote.

In accordance with the time-honoured tradition of the House, those two members, at the first available opportunity, raised a question of privilege in the House. In the days following, I, as well as the member for Hamilton Centre, presented more information in support of the prima facie question of privilege.

On April 6, the Speaker correctly ruled that there were sufficient grounds for finding a prima facie question of privilege. At that time, the member of Parliament for Milton was invited to move the motion on the question of privilege and debate ensued afterward. Members at that time rose in their places, shared their thoughts, but no vote was held. Debate was cut off and the motion itself was killed with no immediate way of reviving that motion. The member for Brossard—Saint-Lambert moved a motion to proceed to orders of the day. This was not an innocent undertaking by the hon. member. It was a direction by the Liberal executive, knowing full well that by moving to orders of the day, this question of privilege would be killed. It would be finished.

The Liberal majority in this House along party lines voted in favour of killing a question of privilege. The Liberals voted in favour of killing the opportunity to discuss the fundamental rights and privileges that were breached on March 22 within this parliamentary precinct. This did not simply push the matter further down on the Order Paper; it removed it altogether from the Order Paper. To hear the government House leader this morning, stand in her place and say they agree with this question of privilege, they agree that it should go to PROC, belies the actions that she and her caucus colleagues undertook on that fateful day when they killed the question of privilege.

Never before in Canadian parliamentary history has such an arrogant course of action been undertaken by a government of any stripe. The Liberal government made history when it did this, and not the type of history that I think it would like to make. Indeed it was a grave injustice to so recklessly dismiss a question of vital importance that affects all 338 of us who serve in this chamber, yet it is another example of the Liberal government, the Liberal executive, dominating the legislative branch of this place, and in so doing disregarding the views and the role of the House of Commons and our important role in parliamentary democracy.

Indeed, two members were denied the right to vote on that day, but by the Liberal government's actions, all 338 members were denied the right to vote. Perhaps it would do well for the Liberal members across the way, those who do not serve in cabinet, to remember they too are members in this House. They may sit as Liberal MPs, but they are simply members of Parliament like each and every one of us, and their rights were denied too when the Liberal government moved to orders of the day.

Then something else happened. The Liberals tried a procedurally flimsy method to get this issue to PROC, the procedure and House affairs committee. Indeed the deputy whip of the Liberal Party, the member for Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, gave notice of a motion in the procedure committee to self-direct the procedure and House affairs committee to study this matter. That is a procedurally flimsy method that is not supported by the mandate of the committee, but nonetheless it was attempted.

In fact, that member tried to say that she did not like the idea of the House directing the study of a committee. She did not like the idea of the House of Commons directing a timeline for a committee study. Perhaps she, as deputy whip of the Liberal Party, may have been mistaken in assuming that committees trump the House of Commons, which is certainly not the case. We as members of Parliament who sit in this House direct the work of the legislative branch of government, not the Liberal Party acting on the direction of the PMO, on the direction of the government House leader, but that is exactly what happened.

We see this happening time and again, whether it was Motion No. 6 or whether it was the discussion paper. I was going to say the discussion paper tabled by the government House leader, but it was never tabled. She did not show the courtesy to us as members of Parliament, to us as parliamentarians, to table her discussion paper here in the House of Commons. She wants to change the rules of this place, but she will not table the document on which she wishes to have a discussion. Instead, she released it online rather than in this great, august chamber. It is this chamber, this House of Commons, that gives a government the ability to govern. It is only with the confidence of this chamber of each and every member of Parliament through the confidence convention that the government may undertake action.

I must be abundantly clear that the actions of the Liberal government hold a dangerous precedent. To have so recklessly dismissed such an issue does not bode well for the future. Indeed, we can imagine situations in which minority governments may exist, where tight votes may be undertaken, where a single vote or two votes could affect the outcome.

I remember well, long before I was elected, that in 2005, a vote on the budget was held in the House. It was a tie vote, thanks to the then independent MP Chuck Cadman, who voted with the government at that time. The Speaker was forced to break that tie. One vote would have changed the direction of that vote. One vote would have resulted in the government falling on a vote of confidence. This is where we find ourselves today. Members of Parliament being prevented from coming to this place to vote is a fundamental challenge must be addressed.

When this question of privilege was killed by the Liberal government, it set a terrible precedent. It is why, at the very first opportunity, I rose in the House and raised a second question of privilege. At the very first opportunity, I sought to reignite, to revive, the important question of privilege, because that is what it was. It was a question of privilege of two members who were denied the right to vote in the chamber.

On April 11, the Speaker, expressing great wisdom and citing precedent on similar matters, made his ruling. He indeed found once again that a prima facie question of privilege existed.

I want to quote exactly what the Speaker said in his ruling. He stated, “...the situation in which the House finds itself is unprecedented. The Chair can find no instance of debate on a matter of privilege superseded by the adoption of a motion to proceed to orders of the day.” Never before had it occurred. The Speaker found no precedent on this matter. He went on to state, “...the Speaker has a duty to uphold the fundamental rights and privileges of the House and of its members.”

Too often we see the role of the Speaker as a referee, as a playground monitor, as someone trying to maintain order, and certainly the Speaker has that role to play in maintaining order in this place and ensuring the smooth flow of debate. However, more important and more fundamental, the Speaker of the House is the defender and protector of the rights and privileges of each and every member of the House.

Therefore, the Speaker, in his ruling, invited me, as the person who raised the subsequent question of privilege, to move a motion that this question of privilege be referred to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. We know from past practice and similar questions that have been raised in the past that this is the appropriate place in which questions of privilege ought to be dealt with.

I was recently reviewing the selected decisions of Mr. Speaker Peter Milliken. My colleague, the member for Chatham-Kent—Leamington, was kind enough to loan me his copy. He mentioned that he had already read it from cover to cover and no longer had use for it.

In that case, on December 1, 2004, a member was denied the right to enter the chamber due to the visit of an American president at the time. The Speaker of the day, Mr. Speaker Milliken, correctly found, in a similar case, that the matter should be referred to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. Then the member for Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord moved such a motion and the motion was sent to the procedure and House affairs committee, which undertook an extensive study and reported back to the House with specific undertakings that ought to be taken by security personnel and the RCMP.

That is where we find ourselves today.

It should be noted, as well, that the motion I moved was subsequently amended, rightfully and correctly so, by my colleague, the member for Battle River—Crowfoot, who said that this ought to take priority over all other business of the procedure and House affairs committee.

Why was that necessary? In normal times, that amendment would not be necessary. However, in this case, it was because of the Standing Orders standoff precipitated by the Liberal government House leader's failed discussion paper.

That amendment was subsequently amended as well by a subamendment by my colleague, the member for Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan. I would like to extend our well wishes to the member for Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan and wish him a speedy recovery. He has served in the House for 13 years, always ably serving, especially on procedure and House affairs matters, as well as a former parliamentary secretary to the government House leader. I know all members would join us in sending him our best wishes and a hope for speedy recovery, and to see him back in this place debating the important matters as soon as possible.

These amendments are absolutely essential, given the context of where we stand and given where the procedure and House affairs committee finds itself. We find ourselves in a situation where the Liberal government is trying to enforce and ram changes down the throats of the opposition. It is trying to change the opposition from an effective opposition to an audience. That is what has been undertaken for three weeks in the procedure and House affairs committee.

Now, without warning and without notice, that meeting was adjourned without even the opportunity for my friend, my colleague, the member for Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, to raise a point of order during that meeting before the gavel was quickly hit on the table.

When the government House leader presented her discussion paper on modernizing Parliament, members from this side, and I think most Canadians, saw it as a smokescreen, a flimsy attempt to take more power and put it in the hands of the executive, put it in the hands of the Liberal Party. What is more interesting is the timeline in which the Liberals insisted this be done. Fundamental changes to the way we operate in the House was to be done by June.

Ostensibly, I suspect, it was so the Liberals could ram these changes down our throats before the end of this spring session, so they could prorogue in the fall to undertake a fresh Speech from the Throne to try to recover their lost legislative agenda.

It is interesting, as well, that the undertakings of the committee are so much in lockstep with the actions of the government. Within hours of the discussion paper being released to the public, it quickly became clear that a member tabled the motion in order to have it dealt with in an expedited fashion at the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. It was that challenge, that fundamental mistake about which I think all of us as parliamentarians feel regretful.

While I am on my feet, I would like to move to a final topic of discussion, and that is how fundamental the rights and privileges of all Canadians are and how much they ought to be respected in this place. Each and every member of Parliament stands here to represent, in my case 105,000, our constituents. Our voices ought not be diminished. The changes being proposed by the Liberal government would do just that.

Fundamentally, this is a question of privilege, and we must at all times respect the privileges of the members of the House.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, it has been an interesting six days of debate in which we have been talking a great deal about this privilege. I have found that less than 50% of the members are talking about other issues not related to the issue at hand. I applaud the member for sticking to topic, which is unfettered access to the parliamentary precinct. Whether it is the government House leader or other members of the Liberal caucus, we have been very consistent. We treat this with the utmost importance. We want the matter to go the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. We have indicated that we will support the amendment.

It is disturbing, at the very least, when members of the opposition talk about using this privilege as a filibuster. That is very serious and other members should wonder whether that is the motivation behind the opposition. Members of the opposition say that it is an important privilege, the privilege of accessibility to parliament precinct, but they want to filibuster.

Would the member agree that unfettered access is what this debate should be about and that the best way to deal with this, as we have done in the past, is have the debate. We are on day six of debate. Usually it is a one day debate, maybe two, and then it goes to PROC. Why does the member believe it is not going to committee unless he is justifying a filibuster on the important issue of privilege?

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would ask the hon. member why his government, his party, saw fit to kill the original motion on the question of privilege. It was his party, his government, that failed to see this issue initially come to a vote in the House. It was his government that launched the discussion paper that disrupted the procedure and House affairs committee for three weeks. This is a fundamental question of privilege. This is about the free access of parliamentarians to the parliamentary precinct.

Why would the Liberals kill that original motion? They did so because of their Standing Order standoff. They did so because they were intent and committed to ramming changes down the throats of the opposition. Now they have given up on the procedure and House affairs committee and will bring those straight to the House of Commons and make those changes in this place, directly using their majority.

The rights and privileges of members must be respected and it is a true shame that the original question of privilege by the members for Beauce and Milton was killed by the Liberal government, which prevented it from going to the PROC committee when it ought to have gone there.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the member is wrong. The Government of Canada has been very clear. The Liberal caucus has been very clear. We want this issue to go to PROC. We have been articulating that for weeks now. What is preventing it from going to PROC are the opposition party members. They are the ones who are denying it from going to PROC.

If we want to talk about hypocrisy, why will the Conservative Party in particular not allow this issue to go to PROC where it could actually be dealt with? We recognize unfettered access and how important it is to the parliamentary precinct. Why does the Conservative Party not recognize it as an important issue to the degree that we get it to PROC where it needs to be dealt with?

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would add that it was this Conservative Party that raised the question of privilege. It was this Conservative Party that moved the appropriate amendment and subamendment so this issue could take priority at the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. We see this as such a fundamental importance that we amended the motion to give it priority at committee.

I know the deputy Liberal whip does not agree with that, so I would be curious to know if she is willing to resign from the procedure and House affairs committee now that her government is supporting exactly what she argued against at committee. This Conservative Party will always stand up for the rights and privileges of parliamentarians in this place.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I was glad to hear from my colleague from Ontario. I would like to congratulate him on his oratorical skills, but more importantly, on the quality of his research.

He was only recently elected, about a year and a half ago, so he is just starting to get his feet wet in parliamentary life. I was also elected to the House of Commons a year and a half ago, but I sat in the National Assembly before that, and I have a few white hairs to show for it. My colleague has distinguished himself thanks to the quality of his work and his arguments, as well as how he presents those arguments.

As a new member, what does he think of the attitude of the Liberal government, which, in recent months, earned the distinction of being the caucus that has tried to muzzle the opposition members more than ever before, even though these members represent everyone in their respective ridings here in the House of Commons?

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Louis-Saint-Laurent for the question. He is right, the Liberal government wants to change the rules of the House to its advantage.

The Liberals want to change the rules of this place for their benefit. They want to change the rules of this place to make it easier for them to do so without the nuisance of an opposition. They want to be able to curtail debate, both in this place and in committee, without the nuisance of an opposition. They want to be able to ram things through committee stage and the House without the full debate that ought to be had by the 338 members of this place. They disguise it as an attempt to make this place more family friendly, yet they have not undertaken the work that ought to be done to really do that.

In fact, the procedure and House affairs committee undertook a study on making Parliament more family friendly, and it came back with a number of recommendations. One was that we not proceed with eliminating Friday sittings, yet when we saw the discussion paper from the Liberal government House leader, once again she was bringing up the subject of eliminating Friday sittings, of eliminating 26 question periods a year, and requiring the Prime Minister himself to only appear in question period one day per week.

This is an attempt by the Liberal majority to change the rules of how this place operates. In the past, the practice has been, with limited exceptions, that when the fundamental rules of this place were changed, they were changed with the consensus of parliamentarians from all political parties. That has been the practice that has happened nearly every time in the past, with an exception or two. That is the way it ought to happen.

The rules of Parliament do not belong to the executive branch; they belong to the legislative branch, the members of this House. That is why we are standing here during this debate on privilege, and in the procedure and House affairs committee, to defend the rights and privileges of each and every member of this House.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I commend my colleague for his comments. He is always well-researched and articulate, and I commend him for that.

However, when we are representing what other parties are putting forward, it is very important that our representation be very accurate. That is the part I want to get to today in my question for the hon. member. It is the issue of misrepresenting what this side of the House and our Liberal members on the other side are trying to put forward here, and I would like to acknowledge our Liberal members on the other side.

First, unfettered access is critical. I have spoken in the House about this. It is very important. We have to ensure that all members have unfettered access. This is not a new problem. This is not a problem that has happened just since the Liberals have been in government; it has happened over the past years. In 2012, a discussion came up with respect to three people. In 2014, the issue came up again. This is an ongoing debate, so the first thing I would ask is if the hon. member would acknowledge that we, the Liberals on this side of the House, agree that unfettered access is extremely important.

Second, everyone on PROC wants to study this issue. That was clearly stated at PROC. Any representation to the contrary is simply a misrepresentation and inaccurate.

Could the hon. member please clarify those two items for the House?

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is good to see that the Liberal government is finally agreeing to make this issue a priority. It is just unfortunate that it could only do so after a second revived Groundhog Day-type question of privilege. It would have been preferable if the government had simply agreed to the initial motion put forth by my colleagues from Milton and Beauce.

I accept that the procedure and House affairs committee wants to study this matter, and I think that is great, but the issue is that it could not study it at the time, without the amendments, because it was embroiled in a Standing Order standoff in which the discussion of the government's discussion paper was taking priority. We believe that questions of privilege ought to take priority.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to resume debate on the question of privilege raised by my colleagues concerning the privileges that the House gives to MPs.

First, let me express my shock that our friend from Perth—Wellington does not already have Selected Decisions of Speaker Peter Milliken. I am surprised he does not have first copies signed already, perhaps for Christmas.

Raising this question of privilege segues nicely into the important debate on the fundamental changes that the government wants to make. It sneakily proposed the changes at a Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs meeting by tabling a motion about reforms to the way Parliament and the House of Commons work.

This is not the first time the government has attempted to change the rules to suit its own purposes. Indeed, it seems the government views Parliament as a mere inconvenience to be disposed of, deigned to, and privileged to behold the presence of the Liberal members of Parliament at all times.

I am very pleased to serve on the operations and estimates committee. On this committee, OGGO, we have studied great things such as Canada Post, Shared Services, and, a little while ago, estimates reform.

The Conservatives and my colleagues in the NDP have agreed with the Treasury Board that we do need to reform the way we do estimates to make them more transparent and to align them better with the budget. Unfortunately, what had been proposed by the Liberal government was to take away two full months of estimates overview, leaving the opposition with merely a month to look at estimates. This was explained by the government as a better way to do things.

Taking away oversight from the opposition on spending is not necessarily a better way to do things.

When we tried to argue that this is not a good way, we received very clear notice from the government that it intended to change the standing order without consent of all parties.

Our colleague from Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, who was chair of the committee—and I express my well-wishes to him as well—asked the President of the Treasury Board again and again if he could guarantee that we will not change the standing order for estimates reform, and again and again we heard, “No, we will not commit to that.” When we suggested that perhaps there could be another way to change the estimates, the comment from the President of the Treasury Board was that estimates were merely busy work, not pertinent to Canadians. This is the whole attitude of the Liberal government: it is that anything it disagrees with is not pertinent work.

I want to quote from King Edward's first writ of summons for the Model Parliament, which said, “Inasmuch as a most righteous law of the emperors ordains what touches all should be approved of all, so it evidently appears that common dangers should be met by measures agreed upon in common.”

Basically, there is a very good argument to be made that the Westminster Palace or the Westminster system exists for spending oversight, and we have seen that the Liberals, just as they are trying to change the rules on the way Parliament works, are trying to change the Standing Orders on estimates, the way we oversee spending, to make things more convenient for them.

Now, let us go back a bit further, to just after the 2015 election.

Imagine the look on the ministers' faces they found out they had been selected to do God's work in the brand new cabinet, full of all the bells and whistles. On the day they were sworn in, Liberal members were sworn in at Rideau Hall after riding to the ceremony in a city bus. The bus was to serve as a reminder of the need to remain humble in the face of repeated attempts to play up their status.

These ministers worked hard to avoid indulging in their privileges. Many of them likely felt entitled to all the trimmings that come with working for this Prime Minister, so really, we must respect their ability to abstain from taking advantage of their positions of power.

Let us remember that the health minister did not rent stretch limousines, but rather just luxury sedans. Instead of wasting several hundred taxpayer dollars per car ride, she only wasted a few hundred.

These actions truly represent the work of someone humbled by her position and experiences and cognitively aware of the ample resources she could have taken advantage of, yet she nobly refrained.

I am, of course, being satirical.

Rather than demonstrating an acute awareness of the powers and privileges to which their positions as members of the highest governing council in this country entitles them and of the thin line between proper compensation for their heroic efforts on behalf of the Liberal Party and excessive indulgence in the fruits of taxpayer-paid luxuries, these ministers have all too often seen fit to take advantage of their extraordinary positions.

We know that they've taken advantage of their positions because we've discovered dozens of examples of nefarious uses of parliamentary and public resources.

As per our job description as members who sit on the left side of the Speaker, we oppose. We ask questions. We demand clarity. We seek accountability. We search for and find evidence of wrongdoing, and bring these questions to this place, our temple of democracy, because that is exactly what we are supposed to do.

It is only natural that members opposite would get defensive on the off chance that their misdemeanours and casual immoderation at the expense of taxpayer dollars would be discovered by a member of this side of the House. All we ask for is clarification.

Why did the minister rent expensive limos on the taxpayers' dollar?

Why did the Minister of Justice think it was appropriate to attend Liberal fundraisers at a downtown Toronto law office that provided exclusive access to a minister of the Prime Minister's inner circle?

Why did the Prime Minister think it was appropriate to violate federal law and take a private aircraft to his vacation on billionaire island, especially when there were other options available? It was a private island owned, by the way, by a registered lobbyist whose organization receives hundreds of millions of Canadian taxpayer dollars.

Why did the Prime Minister mislead Canadians when he said that a private aircraft was the only option to go for this vacation?

These are reasonable questions, ones that members opposite would no doubt have asked if a Conservative government had been in charge and was committing such abuses of power. However, these members and ministers cannot be bothered to answer these questions from the opposition. They stick to prepared talking points handed down by the PMO and rarely take the initiative to deviate from the Liberal norm.

It is typical, really. The government abuses power and privileges that have been accorded to it not by law but rather by the sheer intimidation of the power of its office. It hides behind legal technicalities and shunts responsibilities to those who carry out the work and neglects to take responsibility for ordering its dirty work to be carried out. Then when it gets caught, it shouts and screams, full of sound and fury on this venerable stage, with Canadians watching, its words signifying nothing.

When questions about protecting the powers enshrined in the history and traditions of this place come before us and are dismissed with such a cavalier disregard for the democratic norms that have underpinned the stability and prosperity of our nation, it is truly disturbing. It leaves us asking, “What is next? What is the next tradition that Liberals will give up because it is inconvenient or obstructive to the good work of the Liberal manifesto?”

Perhaps we should not meet at all. Perhaps we should just set up iPads, have MPs phone in during question period, vote electronically, and submit debate speeches by email. Really, by extension of the Liberal logic of updating this place, there is no need for MPs to show up at all. Every accommodation could be made to ensure that MPs never need to get out of the bed in the morning and come here.

I am sure the Liberals would love that: one hour less each day for members to scrutinize the front bench and ask questions on behalf of our constituents, several hours fewer each day for members to debate legislation before the House, much less time for MPs to discover scandals and abuse of privilege, one less day for MPs to introduce those pesky private members' bills that the Liberals so readily disparage.

Just think of the size of limousine the health minister could have rented and charged to taxpayers if she had not had to face members of Parliament in this House. Imagine the amount of money that the Liberal Party of Canada could raise if it could charge money for every phone call, every cup of coffee that a minister has with someone who is not staff. Just think of the vacations the Prime Minister could take if he did not have to answer to the people of Canada through this temple of democracy.

Members opposite will say I am exaggerating, and maybe I am a bit. The government House leader did not propose rules that would allow members to stay at home all the time.

Members do have important work to do in engaging with our constituents. That is why we spend 26 weeks a year engaging with our constituents and 26 weeks a year here, forming their concerns into legislation that can make their lives better. That is the end goal.

Perhaps the aspect of the government's approach to accountability that is of most concern in this House is its willingness to disregard its principles, such as they are, in favour of whatever happens to be most expedient on a given day. Most of its suggested reforms do not objectively enhance the workings of Parliament but instead give more discretion to the government to decide on what it thinks and feels is appropriate, given the situation. “Trust us”, it says, “We'll do the right thing.” However, I really do not trust it. Really, the only people who trust the members opposite to act within generally accepted guidelines, such as transparency and accountability to the people of Canada, are the members opposite themselves. So blinded by the trappings of power are the members opposite that they too often sit by idly and applaud when the government House leader defends in the indefensible or tries to comprehend the incomprehensible.

Do members remember just a few weeks ago, when the Prime Minister stood to answer every question asked in question period? The Liberals used it as an attempt to demonstrate the benefits of moving to a Prime Minister's question period-type set-up and extolled the virtues of their proposal. Then the member for Chilliwack—Hope inconveniently stood and said, “Yes, we notice how the Standing Orders did not have to be changed for the Prime Minister to do that.”

What was the Liberal response? It was not cries of acknowledgement and acceptance, of a sudden realization that, good heavens, they could have been wrong all along and that the behavioural changes start and end at the top with no possible need to change the rules that govern this place. No, we saw the response yesterday. Unmoved by logical fallacy so clearly pointed out by members on this side of the House, the Liberals signalled their intention to move ahead with unilaterally changing the rules anyway, opposition be damned.

The Liberal House leader wants to shut down debate and discussion about their proposed changes and refuses to abide by hundreds of years of parliamentary tradition requiring unanimous consent of the House so that the Conservatives don't get “a veto” over government priorities.

It is difficult to believe the arrogance of the government and its disregard for the work done by all parties within the House. We negotiated in good faith. We made repeated overtures, together with the New Democratic Party, that would have set the table for negotiations for meaningful and tangible reforms to the way we conduct business in the House.

Our only precondition is that no move should be made without unanimous consent of all parties in the House, the time-honoured tradition of unanimous consent. The House leader ignored our olive branch because, she argues, it would give Conservatives a veto. I sometimes wish we did have a veto. Everything from wasteful spending to higher taxes to reforms that make life easier for Liberals and harder for everyone else would be struck down in a heartbeat. However, that is not how a majority government works. I accept that.

More importantly, that is not how respect for the institution of Parliament works. Our 99 seats on this side represent almost 10 million Canadians. True, not everyone voted for us, but we still represent those people. Do they not deserve equal representation over how our democracy works?

The disrespect for this institution personified by the members opposite is quite astounding. It brings me back to budget day 2017. Two members tried to get into Parliament for a vote, but were held up because the Prime Minister's media bus was deemed more important than the transportation of members of the House to get to work.

In response to this motion, the member for Winnipeg Centre said they should have just left earlier. That is disturbing. The statement given by the member for Winnipeg Centre demonstrates an unfortunate disregard and total disdain for anyone in the House who does not belong to the governing party. All problems would be solved in hindsight if they had left a little earlier, but sometimes things get in the way, like the Prime Minister's media bus.

Members should not be forced to miss a vote because the Prime Minister needs to saturate his media exposure. More importantly, the hundreds of thousands of Canadians that the members for Milton and Beauce represent absolutely should not have their voices dampened because the government says so.

For the first time in the history of Parliament, the government took the step of ending the debate before a vote could be called on it. It did not allow for the question of privilege to be decided on by members of the House. It was an unprecedented attack on the members of Parliament, so much so that the member for Perth—Wellington had to raise a question of privilege on the fact that the question of privilege was not voted on. He was successful in bringing that motion forward. I want to thank him for standing up for the rights of all members of Parliament, something the government is increasingly attacking.

The government House leader has said that her government is taking unprecedented action as it carries out its agenda. She is right. It is unprecedented for the government to cut off a debate on privilege. It is exceedingly rare for governments to ram through changes to the rules that govern our democracy. I am not sure this is the kind of infamy that the government House leader is referring to, but if her government continues to act without respect for this institution then it will truly be the legacy of the Liberal government and the Prime Minister, their disdain for democracy.

The government says it must push through on reforming the Standing Orders because it made the commitment to Canadians that it would modernize this place in the last election. That is truly laughable.

I do not have time to provide an exhaustive list of the government's broken promises, but to name a few, I ask members to remember the promise to run small $10 billion deficits and to balance the budget in the fourth year of the mandate. That promise disappeared almost instantly.

Do members remember the commitment to transparency and accountability, particularly with regard to buying access to ministers through fundraisers? The Liberals were pretty quick to ditch that promise once they realized how much money they could raise by selling out ministers.

Do members remember the resolute commitment not to abuse taxpayer dollars? It seems that once the Liberals found out they could reward themselves with luxury car rides and help out a Liberal volunteer at the same time, it was too good an opportunity to pass up.

Of course, there was electoral reform, a promise with much fanfare, touted with much praise. It was carried out over the course of several months and ultimately abandoned.

Does anyone remember why? We are told that, according to Liberals, there was no consensus on what reform should look like. Why is this situation different? Why is it that, when there is no consensus and doing nothing favours the Liberals, they are happy to break a campaign promise; yet when there is no consensus but moving forward is greatly beneficial to the government, they criticize the opposition for standing in their way? Why do the Liberals think it is acceptable to govern with such inconsistency?

We know where we stand. We know where our colleagues in the NDP stand. I am not sure the Liberal MPs know where their government stands. The only predictability behind the current government's actions can be summed up by the basic question: how does it best benefit the Liberals? That is what the government does. It does not work for Canadians. It does not work for the good of the country. It works for itself. It limits debate when it sounds bad for the government. It rams down changes designed to make it easier for the government to hide from accountability.

I think perhaps the fact that is most indicative of the shamefulness of the Liberals' actions is that the MP who speaks most often to this question is the parliamentary secretary to the government House leader and member for Winnipeg North. I do admire his oratory skills and I am sure he will get up and show off those skills again, but I have to ask why the other MPs are so keen to avoid speaking to something they know to be wrong. They are happy to defer speaking responsibility to the most outspoken member of their caucus, and I cannot blame them; I would not want to have to justify the actions of the current government either. That is one of the many reasons I sit on this side of the House as a Conservative.

The government continues to set new records, not on job creation or economic growth and not on things like making life easier for Canadians. The level of attack that the government has taken against the members of Parliament whose privileges were found to be violated in a prima facie case is unprecedented. I encourage all Liberal backbenchers to see the light and make the right choice when it comes time to vote on this issue.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Mr. Speaker, with all due respect to the hon. member, there was some wandering there from the question at hand, but perhaps that is what happens when they talk to a question of privilege for seven days.

The point I would like to make is this. We all agree that we can clearly do better, and this is really a balance of the security—and I want to acknowledge the amazing security personnel we have here on the Hill who work very hard to keep us safe; we appreciate that and we want to thank them for their good work—and at the same time ensuring members get to the House safely in a timely manner, as security wants. Clearly, we can do better at that because I know that over the past couple of years this issue has taken place. This is not new to a Liberal government. This has happened a number of times in this place over the past couple of years.

Would the member not agree that what we want to do is to move this question to PROC, so that PROC can study this at an in-depth level, bring witnesses, and have questions at hand, so that we can do better at this? Would the member not support that PROC is the place to continue this debate so that we get to a resolution where security personnel continue to do their job and members get to be here on time and in a timely manner?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, there is no question in anyone's mind in this House that the security people do a very good job looking after us and keeping us safe. They do a fantastic job. The issue of the debate is twofold, to her question.

The voices from this side of the House, from the NDP, from the Bloc, and from us, have to be heard on such an unprecedented attack on the freedom of this House. It was not just a bus being blocked. It was not just two members not being here. It was the government trying to shut down the debate before there was even a vote on the subject. It is much bigger than just a simple bus.

Yes, we need to get this to PROC, but there are a lot of voices in this House that have to be heard. There are 184 government members. There are 150 members on this side of the House. Every single one of us was sent here by 100,000 people. They want us to talk on the important subjects, not just a bus but taxes, marijuana, and a lot of other issues. We are sent here for a reason, and the issue we are discussing today is that side of the House shutting down our ability to discuss and represent our constituents.

[Pierre Nantel, NDP, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Edmonton West for his strong speech. He explained how important the work of an opposition party can be in our democratic process.

He described my colleague from Winnipeg North as a professional. That is true, because he consistently does the same thing whether he believes in it or not. A professional tennis player has to always play at his best even in the rain, even when his heart is not in it, even when he is tired.

Well, my colleague from Winnipeg North always goes full throttle no matter what we are talking about, because it is always the same thing. He comes to the defence of a well-established party that acts like royalty, with royal privileges and a royal attitude toward its entourage who prevent the poor ordinary members from speaking.

I wonder if the government is just trying to buy some time. Could it be that after presenting themselves during the election campaign as a youthful, marvellous, sunny, and progressive alternative, now they are not so sure what to do about all their pending promises and need to think long and hard about how to explain their deficits?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, those are some very good points. The government has lost track.

Our colleague, the member for Perth—Wellington, commented earlier that he suspects it will eventually prorogue and try to reset. In every part of this, the government has lost its strategy and lost its way. I believe its attempt to ram through changes without unanimous consent on the way we deal with things in the House is a result of its inability to get the message out and inability to get work done properly in this House.

Instead of facing the opposition and working with the opposition, presenting comprehensive, proper legislation, the government has decided to just change the rules and ram things through, getting its stuff through and just keeping going.

It is evident not only in the way the government is trying to change the Standing Orders but in the way it is dealing with the blocking of our colleagues, the members for Milton and for Beauce, and their inability to vote. Instead of addressing the issues, the government is trying to shut down debate.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I listened very carefully to the member. He said the government is blocking the members from being able to vote.

Let me make a suggestion. We need to go back to the beginning. Why are we debating this privilege today? It is because two members did not have unfettered access to the parliamentary precinct.

How did that happen? It happened because on budget day, well in advance, I believe the Conservatives wanted to adjourn debate. They caused the bells to ring. They are entitled. If they want to do something unprecedented, calling for a vote on the day of the budget, and it runs, in part, through the budget, that is completely their prerogative. I am not going to deny that or take it away from them. However, I assume the whips would have told the members that the vote was going to take place.

The issue is that we believe in unfettered access to the parliamentary precinct. The reason why PROC is not studying the issue today is because the Conservatives continue to want to talk about it.

My question is very precise. Why are the members not allowing this to go to PROC today?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I addressed this earlier in a previous question.

Our ability to come to this House to debate and represent our constituents is so important that every single voice should be heard on this. This is not just a procedural matter about a bus being delayed so we should just move ahead.

Every single member, NDP, Bloc, Green Party, and Conservative, should have an opportunity to get up and state how important it is. I want to read a statement that is on our ID card:

Under the law of parliamentary privilege, the bearer has free and open access at all times, without obstruction or interference to the precincts of the House of Parliament of which the bearer is a member.

It is so important that we have this unfettered access to the House. It is not just a simple matter of two people being late. They were blocked from attending this House, and then the government tried to block debate on our ability to discuss the issue of our coming to this House and representing our constituents.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague from Edmonton West for his excellent remarks.

I am assuming that like all Edmontonians he is a big fan of the Oilers, whom we are very proud to see in the Stanley Cup playoffs. All Canadians should be applauding the success of the Senators and the Oilers.

Let us now turn to the subject of this motion. It is very important because it is about our democratic process in the House and the mandate we must honour, that is, speaking for the 100,000 people who live in our ridings. That is what the member for Milton and the member for Beauce wanted to do on the day of the budget. Unfortunately, they were unable to be present for an important vote because of a problem they experienced.

On this side of the House, we believe that any change in how MPs do their job must be made by consensus. I would like the member for Edmonton West to explain to the Liberal members why it is so important to have a consensus before making changes to how the House works.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that is an excellent question. A part of the debate we are having is about changing the way we do business in the House and it is very important that we have unanimous consent. I do not always agree with my NDP colleagues nor my Liberal colleagues, but we cannot have the tyranny of the majority changing the rules for such an important democratic institution without all of us agreeing.

As much as the Liberals would like to believe otherwise, they are not going to be in power forever. What is going to stop the next government from overriding every single standing order, which the Liberal government is trying to do? What is going to stop the next government from trying to change the standing orders on the estimates, like the Liberal government has done, so that we have no parliamentary oversight on spending? The very reason quite arguably that the whole Westminster system exists is spending oversight. They have tried to change it before. What is to stop anyone once we have set this precedent of the tyranny of the majority to change any rule that they want at any time? It takes away the purpose of this building's existence. We cannot allow that to happen.

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour for me today to speak to this motion. I will be sharing my time with the member for Essex, a young MP who was elected in the last election in 2015, just as I was. She is an extraordinary woman who was very involved in her community before she became an MP. I do not want to speak for her, but I know that she vigorously and passionately speaks to the issues that are important to her community, just as she did when she was a candidate. Like me, she believes in democracy and the democratic process in the House.

When I was elected, I came here with all kinds of ideas and issues, but above all I wanted to be transparent, to speak on behalf of every person in the riding of Jonquière. On the weekend, there was a big march in Dolbeau-Mistassini in the Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean region. It was a gathering of amazing workers who came together for one common purpose. They were united for the forest, and they want the government to stand up for the forestry industry. We know a crisis is looming. Unfortunately, thousands of jobs may be lost if the government does not take action. I am proud to be the voice of the people of Jonquière here in the House.

Getting back to the subject at hand, our job as MPs is to be here in the House to speak up about issues that matter to the people we represent. That applies to MPs for all 338 ridings. Our primary duty is to represent people. I belong to a political party that I am proud of, the NDP, a party whose values I embrace in all aspects of my life and my work. Above all, what matters most are the people.

When we come to Ottawa and we are called upon to vote, we should not be obstructed in any way. I would like to recognize the extraordinary work done by the security forces on the Hill. As a new member, I often got lost in this big, beautiful city, and especially on the Hill, with its countless offices. The security officers were always there for me. Even when I was worried, they were there to reassure me. I would therefore like to recognize the extraordinary work that they do for us.

After the dramatic events that unfolded here, they always have to be on guard. It is not easy to always be on high alert. I want to commend them and thank them on behalf of all my colleagues. They take care of us and allow us to perform our duties, to have full access so we can come to the House and vote. That is why it is important to have this debate.

When I come to the House I expect members to listen to what I have to say. We are all equal. Whether we are members of the government or the opposition, we have the right to speak. Our comments must be taken into account.

Accordingly, the government cannot just say that it has a majority and it was elected by Canadians to represent them. It is true that the government is part of Parliament, but major changes require a consensus. Members of the House have different opinions. We do not always have to fully agree with one another, but we need to at least come to a consensus.

We need to remember the importance of being in the House and the importance of committees. Things happen on many levels. There are many complex procedures and, as a new member, I must admit that I still have some trouble understanding them all. However, we are fortunate to have extraordinary people, including the clerks, to help us keep the House running smoothly. I trust the various bodies. If they have been trained and have always worked, we should stay the course. However, we do not want a repeat of this situation.

I heard a number of stories in the House about things that have happened in the past. I was not here, given that I was elected in 2015. If similar things have already happened in the past, why would we not work constructively and make the necessary changes? We all need to be consulted and be part of the process. Indeed, all members of all political parties must be part of the process. We are the voice of Canadians.

In my opinion, an MP's job is first and foremost to represent the people in his or her riding. My constituents believe that I have a forum where I can speak my mind, that I can vote freely, and that it is easy for me to access Parliament Hill. They also believe that I can be held accountable.

When I go to my riding, I meet with people from a strong and vibrant community. The riding is home to the Knights of Columbus, the Royal Canadian Legion, the Daughters of Isabella, and many other dynamic organizations that host a wide range of activities. I have the opportunity to interact and talk with my constituents.

Over the past two weeks, the people in my riding have been asking me difficult questions. Everything moves quickly in the House. We experience it on a daily basis. However, the process may seem complex to ordinary Canadians. They are wondering what is happening and where their democracy is headed because no one is asking their opinion. Do they feel as though they are well represented? Yes, because they know that every MP in the House is working for them.

I spoke earlier about the great work that is being done by the member for Essex. She works hard and is very passionate about her work. We are all doing our part because we have a common objective, a common goal. In order to reach that goal, we must be able to express ourselves and to vote.

I hope that the members of the House will be able to continue to work together. We must break down barriers, whether we agree or not. The important thing is not only to remember everything that has happened but also to resolve the problem once and for all. We need to give all members the opportunity to express themselves, whether we agree with what they have to say or not. The opinions of members on both sides of the House must be taken into consideration. I believe that this is the very essence of many of the speeches that have been given in the House.

Freedom of expression is extremely important. Members' votes and speeches must be taken into account. Members need to have full and unfettered access to the House of Commons. No member should be prevented from voting, and no member should be prevented from speaking on behalf of his or her constituents.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate my colleague from Jonquière for her very good speech. I pretty much agree with her with respect to this matter and also the good comments by the member for Essex.

I would like to speak briefly about the issue before us. We want to study why access to the Hill was blocked once again. This should not have happened. I was here when Mr. Godin, the former NDP member for Acadie-Bathurst, was prevented from entering the chamber. I saw him through the window and I heard the entire conversation. It was ridiculous. Why was he prevented from accessing the Hill for pretty much the same reasons as in the most recent incident?

The procedure and House affairs committee made recommendations to address the problem, but they have yet to be implemented. I would like to ask those who were to fix the problem why that has not yet happened. It makes no sense. I agree with what the member said.

Why must we wait to submit the matter to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs? Why not do it now?

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate my colleague's comment and his question.

I was not here when that happened. When I was sworn in, I was given an ID card that was to be visible at all times in order for me to have access to every building on the Hill. It is important to identify oneself. I have a lot of admiration for the work that our officers do. They recognize us now. They know our faces and our names by heart. It is quite amazing, really. I cannot even remember all my colleagues' names. Their visual acuity is remarkable.

I was not here for the events that my colleague from Laurentides—Labelle mentioned. We need assurances of clear and precise commitments if this file is to be referred to committee. Will the committee's recommendations truly be taken into consideration and applied to ensure that this never happens again? Will any real changes be made? Any change will have to be made with the unanimous consent of the House and we must all be involved in the process.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this privilege motion also deals with the agenda and practices of PROC. We need to know what kind of a study will happen at PROC.

Something quite unprecedented happened this morning at PROC. In the middle of the member for Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston trying to raise a point of order, the committee was immediately adjourned, without the consent of the committee. The chair unilaterally adjourned the meeting in the middle of the discussion as that member was calling a point of order, and there was absolutely no response to that.

Therefore, clearly what happened was the chair of the PROC committee read a script. We do not know who gave him that script. I suspect the government House leader will be more reluctant to take the credit for this than the defence minister was to take the credit for other things. However, the chair was reading a script and the meeting was adjourned, without the committee being consulted, while someone was trying to raise a point of order.

In light of what has happened at PROC, I wonder if the member could comment on the complete disregard we have seen for our democratic process in this chamber and at the procedure and House affairs committee. Could she comment on what expectation we can have of having that study work effectively in that kind of committee environment?