Debates of May 29th, 2017

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Chair, when the minister was made aware of the lack of capacity in the Canadian air fleet, did that information come from an employee of his political cabinet or a DND staff member?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, it is the Department of National Defence where I get my military advice, from the chief of the defence staff and the chain of command. We need to make sure that when we talk about numbers and what we need, it is based on solid data. We need to look at our commitments. Our NORAD and NATO commitments cannot be met simultaneously.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Chair, on what date did the minister inform the Minister of Public Services and Procurement that his fleet's needs were so urgent that he would be going ahead with untendered military procurement?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, we have promised, as a government, to replace the entire fleet. We have been working on a replacement of the fighter fleet right from the get-go. I have worked very closely with the minister for procurement so that we can speed up the process, and we will continue to do so.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Chair, the Minister of Public Services and Procurement is responsible for administering the Government Contracts Regulations, which apply to government procurement.

Did the minister have a discussion with the Minister of Public Services and Procurement regarding the Government Contracts Regulations for the potential acquisition of 18 Super Hornet jets?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, of course, we have had many discussions, not just about our fighter jets, but with all our procurements. Instead of having a file where I build the requirements and then it gets handed off, we are trying to speed up the process. Sometimes we even do joint briefings, having these discussions so we can speed up the process, so that we can have this equipment. These planes should have been replaced a long time ago, and our government is committed to making sure that we get this job done.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Chair, did the minister's staff and the staff of the Minister of Public Services and Procurement communicate at a meeting, or by telephone, email, mail, or courier with respect to the valid exceptions to the process set out in the Government Contracts Regulations?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

we Mr. Chair, as I said, we are committed to making sure that we not only replace the fighters and all our equipment, but that we follow the appropriate steps. This is one of the reasons that when it comes to the time frames as well, that we take the right steps. This is important. We are accountable to Canadians, and we are required to take the right steps, and that is exactly what we are doing.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to know whether his department informed the minister that procurement must be carried out in accordance with the government's procurement policies, especially when there is no call for tender?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, I can assure the member that when it comes to government deciding on the purchase of the Canadian fleet and any other purchase, we follow the Government of Canada's policies and regulations on defence procurement. We want to move as quickly as possible, but we need to follow all the necessary steps, in a manner that is cost effective for Canadians but also provides the right capability for our troops. We are committed to that.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Chair, the next question absolutely requires an answer. Otherwise, we will know that the minister has not done his homework.

Which exception to the Government Contracts Regulations does the lack of capacity put forward by the government fall under?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, when it comes to the capability gap, as I stated, we cannot meet our NATO and NORAD commitments simultaneously. We are a nation that lives up to our commitments. We are going to make sure that we have the necessary aircraft based on the right information and by following the appropriate steps. We are committed to making sure that we move forward in a manner that gets the equipment in a timely manner for our men and women.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Chair, fortunately, the deputy minister responsible for procurement answered my question. The government referred to subsection 3(1)(g) of the Government Contract Regulations:

...a contract whose purpose is, for operational reasons, to fulfil an interim requirement for defence supplies or services or to ensure defence logistical capabilities on an interim basis, and any related contract.

This is the subsection used by the government to proceed without a call for tenders, unless it does not really want to proceed without a call for tenders, or unless it does not really want to buy interim aircraft.

If the government does want to proceed, my next is question is as follows: did Public Services and Procurement approach the present minister's department in order to obtain a letter with respect to the exception under subsection 3(1)(g) for the purchase of a fleet of aircraft without a call for tenders?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, when it comes to the replacement of our fighters and especially when it comes to the interim, we are exploring this option.

Since we are talking about procurement, I want to remind members that the Royal Canadian Air Force has been risk-managing our commitments for a very long time.

When it comes to the capability gap, members should also note that we were talking about Davie shipyards just recently. That was a capability gap that we had, but it turned into a capability loss. We want to make sure that we do not get into another situation now where our capability gap turns into a capability loss. That is why we are moving ahead for a full replacement in a full competition, investing in the legacy fleet, exploring the options of the interim fleet as well, and making sure that we have enough pilots and technicians.

We need to be able to move ahead and be proactive in this manner so that we do not lose our capability as we did with our joint supply ships.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Chair, did the minister's department write a letter to the Minister of Public Services and Procurement explaining why it was necessary to proceed without a bidding process?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, when it comes to all procurements, all the rules and regulations are followed. Those are the necessary things that we need to do. It takes a certain time frame as well. We want to speed up the process, but we need to be able to follow the rules, making sure that we also get a fair deal for taxpayers as well and making sure that we have the right capability for our troops. We want to make sure. This is a large purchase for the long term, and we need to make sure that we get the decision right.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Chair, this is very important. The Minister of Public Services and Procurement has a legal obligation to request that the reason why the government is not holding a bidding process for the Super Hornet fighter jets be written in black and white, even if it is just in a simple letter.

Did the Minister of Public Services contact the defence minister's office? If not, did the defence minister intend to move forward diligently and honourably on his own initiative by providing his partner department, Public Services and Procurement Canada, with the necessary explanations that would ensure that the two departments properly comply with the Government Contracts Regulations? It is a law after all. I am not the one saying it. It is the law.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, as I also stated, both the minister of procurement and myself and even the Minister of Innovation, Science and Economic Development work closely together so that we can move in an expedient manner. We discuss the various challenges. We look at all types of procurement. We are doing this in a manner so that we do not have a file that gets looked at by one department and then gets looked at by another and then gets passed on. We are trying to do this as efficiently as possible.

All members of the House would agree that our procurement system needs to be improved. A lot of work has been done on this and a lot of work will be done in the future. We also need to make sure that we follow the rules, and that is exactly what we are doing.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Chair, the Liberals discussed the needs of the Canadian Armed Forces' air fleet among themselves. If letters have not yet been exchanged between the two offices, it is basically because they have not gotten very far in the process to potentially acquire 18 Super Hornet fighter jets without tender. They basically have done nothing to date.

I am asking the minister where the Liberals are in terms of the work that has been done between the two departments. This has to happen at some point. It is not me that is saying it. It is the law. The two departments have to work together. It is the law.

If they are not at that point yet, when will they be?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, when it comes to the replacement of our fighters, we have announced a full competition to replace the entire fleet. We are investing in the legacy. We are taking many measures to make sure we are looking at all aspects, so we do not have a capability gap that turns into a capability loss. Currently, we are in discussions with the U.S. government on this. No decision has been made. A letter of request to the U.S. government has been sent for information. We are following the necessary steps that are required for us to move ahead, and that is exactly what we are doing.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Chair, okay, that is too bad. In 2012, Mr. Ferguson, the Auditor General, said that Public Services would have to request a letter from National Defence, but that went nowhere because they did not do anything. We all know what is going to happen. They will not go forward with this. That is why they have done nothing. The law does not even matter, because they have done and will do absolutely nothing.

I would like to know if the Seaspan and Irving shipyards can satisfy military needs under the national marine strategy.

Does the minister think that these two shipyards can meet the needs set out in the marine strategy?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, when it comes to our shipbuilding, our navy does need to replace its ships. This is one of the reasons that we, as a government, agree with the national shipbuilding strategy that the previous government put forward. Investments have been made with the Irving and the Seaspan shipyards. We want to make sure that we continue to improve. We have made certain choices to speed up the process as much as possible. That is one of the reasons that all three ministers work closely together. There are always challenges that come up, but we have a very good working relationship with the shipyards, within our department as well, to look at those issues and address them quickly so that we can get the ships delivered on time.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Chair, there is an excellent table in the report by the Senate Standing Committee on National Security and Defence. It shows that, beginning in 2005, when the Conservatives came to power, the percentage of GDP allocated to the armed forces started to go up. During the economic crisis, it started going down, unfortunately. If only the economic crisis had not happened. However, in 2015-16 and 2016-17, it kept going down: 0.92% and 0.88%.

Will the percentage of GDP allocated to military spending start going back up in 2017-18?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, as I have stated publicly, successive governments had not been investing in the Canadian Armed Forces. Since the member brought up the GDP, the defence spending per GDP when the Conservatives came into government had decreased by the time they left.

However, this is not about putting blame; this is about our taking ownership of the current state. We are going to make sure that the defence policy review addresses these challenges. All parliamentarians want to make sure that the Canadian Armed Forces is looked at, and I want to be able to work with the members to achieve this.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Chair, I will speak for about 10 minutes, and then I will ask a few questions.

I am honoured to have this opportunity in the House this evening to discuss the work of the Minister of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces in the context of the main estimates.

The Canadian Armed Forces have an important role to play on the international stage, contributing to global peace and security. This is work they perform on behalf of all Canadians. However, their most important role is what they do right here at home, defending our sovereignty, and this role takes many forms.

Whether this means monitoring our air space and maritime approaches, conducting surveillance and patrols in the Arctic, or saving Canadian lives through search and rescue missions, our soldiers work hard on our behalf every day. The funds requested in these estimates directly support these activities.

I would like to talk today about what this funding is used for. The most top-of-mind aspect of the Canadian Armed Forces’ domestic mission is to support Canadians during emergencies and in the face of natural disasters. When our military is called to help, they are the force of last resort. They must respond when no one else can, with capabilities no one else can provide. They must do so quickly, and without fail.

This was the case recently with the military response to floods in Quebec. These floods, caused by water levels not seen in decades, affected close to 200 communities and displaced thousands of residents. Upon the request for assistance from the Government of Quebec, through public safety, the Canadian Armed Forces response was immediate. Within hours, planning and reconnaissance teams were assessing the situation in the air and on the ground.

Within 24 hours, 400 military members from Canadian Forces Base Valcartier were deployed to the four most affected regions, namely, Montérégie, Outaouais, Mauricie, and Montreal. Seven helicopters soon followed, six Griffons and one Chinook.

As the need grew, so did the response from the military. Altogether, at the peak of operations, 2,600 soldiers, sailors, and airmen and airwomen contributed to the flood relief efforts. This was the largest domestic operation for our military in the last seven years. They helped Quebeckers with sandbagging, building and reinforcing dikes, installing emergency infrastructure, evacuating flood victims, patrolling the streets, and monitoring water levels.

I had the opportunity to see their commitment and dedication firsthand when I visited some of the flood sites with the Minister of National Defence and other officials.

All this was made possible through the training, equipment, and materiel supported by the type of funding we are discussing this evening.

The Canadian Armed Forces have been called upon to help many other times in recent months, for example, during the destructive ice storm in the Acadian peninsula in January, the evacuation of the Kashechewan First Nation, and the current crisis in Mud Lake.

Just last year, during the wildfires in Fort McMurray, the Royal Canadian Air Force transported evacuees to safety, airlifted firefighters in and out of affected areas, moved equipment, and conducted surveillance flights. We also remember the wildfires in Saskatchewan in the summer of 2015, to which 850 military members were deployed in support of the province. In that case, in addition to transport and logistical support, military members were involved directly in fighting the fires. As the former mayor of Iberville, I can attest to the key role played by the Canadian Armed Forces during the 1998 ice storm.

These are just a few examples of how our military has responded to emergencies, time and again, with unique capabilities, and with great adaptability. With the increased risk of severe weather events as a result of climate change, it is all too likely their capabilities will be needed again.

Response to natural disasters is one of the most visible ways in which our military helps Canadians in distress. Another way is through Canada’s search and rescue program.

While search and rescue is a shared responsibility among federal, provincial, and municipal organizations, the Canadian Armed Forces has the primary responsibility for aeronautical search and rescue, as well as for coordinating responses to aerial and maritime incidents.

In sparsely settled regions of the country, the 5,000 members of the Canadian Rangers are regularly called upon to conduct and assist with ground search and rescue, due to their unique set of skills and knowledge. Altogether, military personnel directly respond to roughly 1,000 search and rescue incidents every year, and the joint regional coordination centres, which are funded and staffed by our military, coordinate ten times as many.

The Royal Canadian Air Force has an occupation dedicated to search and rescue. These 140 SAR technicians are trained to jump out of airplanes, climb mountains, and provide emergency medical help to Canadians in danger. Over the years, they have saved thousands of lives, embodying their motto, “That others may live.” Tragically, saving lives is sometimes done at the cost of their own.

Just this March, we were reminded of the very real dangers that those technicians face with the loss of Master Corporal Alfred Barr, who died in a training accident. My thoughts are with his colleagues and family as they continue to heal from this tragedy.

While there are risks involved with search and rescue, and challenges in providing that service in a country as vast and geographically diverse as Canada, this is a vital mission. The funding in these main estimates will ensure that members of the Canadian Armed Forces will continue to save the lives of their fellow citizens for many years to come.

I want to draw the attention of the House to the military’s ultimate, essential domestic role, and that is defending Canadian sovereignty. The Canadian Armed Forces defend maritime and air approaches to Canada, including in our Arctic. It does this by conducting sovereignty patrols and ensuring that air power can quickly reach every square foot of Canadian soil.

It also uses space capabilities for wide-area surveillance and maintains an active regional presence in remote and isolated regions through the Canadian Rangers, our eyes and ears in the north. They provide crucial awareness.

To augment its efforts, the army has also created arctic response company groups, which are reserve units that are specially trained to respond in Arctic environments.

The Royal Canadian Air Force maintains and sustains our permanent presence at Canadian Forces Station Alert, the most northerly permanently inhabited location in the world. While the Arctic remains a region free of conflict, it is not immune to the effects of climate change and its associated challenges. As Arctic passages become more accessible, interest in the region will grow and activities there will increase. We will need to continue to monitor activities in the north and its approaches to Canada, maintain a presence, and be prepared to respond to save lives or deal with disasters caused by increased human activity.

The $3.36 billion in this budget will ensure that members are trained, equipped, and ready to fulfill their operational roles and that they have the equipment and infrastructure they need to do their jobs.

Now I would like to ask the minister a few questions. I am going to ask about an event that affected Quebec recently and Operation Lentus, which covers all domestic missions that the Canadian Armed Forces fulfill to help Canadians in need.

We have seen these operations in recent years in Alberta, Manitoba, New Brunswick, and, very recently, in Quebec. As always, Canadians are grateful for the contribution of our military personnel.

Can the Minister discuss the important role the Canadian Armed Forces played on their recent operation in Quebec?