Debates of May 29th, 2017

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2017-18

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Chair, it is the joint responsibility of the Minister of National Defence and the Minister of Public Services and Procurement for this project. Can he please tell us if it was defence that delayed the project to allow the T26 design to be added, or did this come from procurement? Where did the delay come from to allow this unqualified design to be added? Why are we delaying the project to allow this ship, which clearly violates the procurement minister's own rules for the shipbuilding process?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, as I have stated, when it comes to the Department of National Defence's role in this, we build the requirements. We work very closely with the Minister of Public Services and Procurement. We want to move as quickly as possible, but when it comes to the actual process and how the procurement takes place, those steps are taken by the Minister of Public Services and Procurement.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Chair, I am sorry to belabour the point. If the Minister of National Defence works so closely with the Minister of Public Services and Procurement, as he says, why can he not answer the simple question of whose decision it was to delay the process to allow BAE to add its unqualified design to the bidding process?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, there are many questions that have to be answered by various companies. When there are legitimate questions or things that need to be worked out, our officials give the recommended advice, and these decisions are made within procurement. We need to make sure that we have the necessary information. At the same time, we need to tell the companies and our officials to do the due diligence, so at the end of the day we can have the necessary capability for the Canadian Armed Forces.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Chair, I think this is a capability gap, but I think it is the capability of the minister.

The single biggest source of accrual space removed in budget 2017, $2 billion, was for the combat ships. How many more billions will be removed because of the ongoing delays with this procurement, please?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, we are committed to making sure that we move as quickly as possible, to making sure we move money into the right areas.

Being minister I'm so passionate about this topic. We should have been working on also replacing our ships, as I stated, the capability gap of the joint supply ships. We have no supply ships now. They should have been working on this. They had 10 years to fix the problem, and they did not. Now we are making sure that we move as quickly as possible, following all the necessary steps, to deliver these capabilities.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Chair, I will ask the question again, and please answer the question and stop pointing fingers at the past. How many more billions would be moved because of ongoing delays with this procurement process?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, we want to make sure that the money is in the right areas for procurement. When it comes to making a decision on procurement, money is moved into the necessary areas.

When we take custody of a capability, when it comes, for example, to the fixed-wing search and rescue, a decision is made on the aircraft. Then as we take ownership of those aircraft, money is moved into various areas. That is how procurement is done.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Chair, how long is the gap going to be between the Arctic patrol vessels and the combat ships? Why is there a gap when the new procurement strategy that was announced was designed to prevent such a gap?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, we want to make sure that when we come to a gap, within 18 months within our government we could be able to move and make the process as efficient as possible. When the national shipbuilding strategy was designed, obviously there was a plan put in place, but regrettably, all the steps were not there.

We as a government are now working very hard to make sure that the national shipbuilding strategy is allowed to be a success. It is about jobs. It is about making sure we have the right capabilities for our men and women in the Canadian Armed Forces.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Chair, I would like to ask again, what would the gap be? Why is there a gap? The minister has stated that they are making it more efficient and making the gap smaller, but the president of Irving himself, who is building these ships, says the gap is growing larger and we are at risk of added costs or a massive layoff of skilled staff at Irving's shipyard because of the government's delay in moving forward with the design and the project.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, when it comes to going through our process to select a design off the shelf, it actually has increased. The process allows us to shrink the time frame of the project so that we can reduce this gap as much as possible, so this is about creating jobs. This is also about making sure we have all the right capabilities. We are committed to making sure the national shipbuilding strategy works.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Chair, the minister talks about reducing the gap, but again, the evidence is that the president of Irving says the gap is growing. We are seeing the gap is growing because the government is violating the procurement minister's own rules, who was saying only designs from ships already in service or mature existing designs will be accepted. Now the government is accepting designs and delaying the process to accept designs that violate the procurement minister's own words.

Will the Minister of National Defence please tell us what the size of the gap is, how many months, please, and when will we start working on the combat ships?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, as I said, I can assure the member that we are working very diligently to move the process along as quickly as possible, to make sure that we have all the necessary ships. Whether it is combat ships or whether it is the Arctic patrol vessels, a lot of work needs to be done. There is a very complex process that the company also has in place. We understand that we do not want to have gaps and we are working very hard to make sure that we reduce the gap as much as possible, and at the same time, ensure the Canadian Armed Forces have all the right ships and the capabilities we need.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Chair, the government has promised annual reports on the shipbuilding strategy. We have not seen one yet. Will the minister tell us when that would be tabled, please?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, I am sure the Minister of Public Services and Procurement can answer the question of when the reports will be out.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Good heavens, Mr. Chair.

Who in DND was the architect of a lifelong muzzling of over 200 public servants involved in the sole-sourced Super Hornet purchase?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, when it comes to non-disclosure agreements, these are necessary steps that the department takes to make sure it protects the information from various companies. These are steps that are necessary to make sure that the information provided by various companies is protected.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We probably have time for one very short question.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Chair, I am glad we have time for one more question, because I have not received a single answer tonight in 15 minutes. I will try to get one answer.

Who in DND was the architect, the person who imposed a lifelong muzzling of public servants involved in the sole-source purchase of the Super Hornets? Please, who was it in DND?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, as I stated, when it comes to the non-disclosure agreements, these are necessary steps to be able to protect Canadian information.

Since the member wants to keep making fun of the situation, I am the Minister of National Defence and am focused on the requirements. I am happy take questions that are focusing on or are directly related to my portfolio. If he wants to play games in terms of asking questions related to other departments, I will try to answer in the best way possible.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Resuming debate. The hon. member for Marc-Aurèle-Fortin has approximately four minutes remaining because the time allocated for this debate will end at 10:51 p.m.

[Yves Robillard, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Mr. Chair, I will use the four minutes for my speech. I thought I had 10 minutes, so I will shorten my speech.

I am pleased to take part in today's discussion on the main estimates for the Department of National Defence. This evening's debate has allowed us to address a wide range of topics concerning the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces.

I would like to take a few moments to talk about one aspect of this discussion that I think deserves more attention, and that is the role of the primary reserve. As a member of the Standing Committee on National Defence, I try to highlight this role. The primary reserve is a force of full-fledged Canadian Armed Forces members. Located in communities across Canada, their role is to be ready to conduct Canadian Armed Forces operations and to contribute to international peace and security. Reservists are found across Canada. No less than 117 communities, including Laval, are home to reserve units. Members of this House were once reservists, including the Minister of National Defence. I had the privilege of being an officer cadet of the Royal Canadian Air Force for 12 years.

With its association to the militia units that existed in the earliest days of our nation, the primary reserve represents a powerful link to our rich heritage. Beyond maintaining a strong connection between the military and Canadian communities, it also plays a significant role in domestic operations here at home. This can include response to natural disasters, as we have recently seen.

Of the 2,600 Canadian Armed Forces members who were deployed at peak strength to deal with this month’s flooding in Quebec and eastern Ontario, nearly 900 of them were reservists from more than 60 reserve units across those two provinces. Reservists put on a remarkable display of citizenship, leadership, and commitment to their country.

It is important to recognize how the role of the reservist has evolved. Many Canadians still think of the reserve as a militia composed entirely of part-time citizen-soldiers. That is true for many reservists. However, others have a different role, one that is no less significant. Approximately 4,000 reservists work full time to command and administer the reserve units, training centres, and headquarters across Canada. They support the reserve itself. They bring to the military the vast knowledge and experience they gain from civilian practice. More broadly, primary reserve members have participated in international military operations alongside their counterparts from the regular force.

I will close by saying that the funding that is required to support and sustain the reserves, their training, and their activities is a critical investment for our country. I am proud of our government's defence efforts. I want to end by thanking all members of our Canadian Armed Forces and all of the staff at the Department of National Defence for their service.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

That will bring to an end the time allowed for this evening's committee of the whole. I thank all hon. members for their participation this evening over the four hours, and I thank the minister and his staff.

It being 10:51 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), all votes are deemed reported. This committee will rise and I will now leave the chair.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

The House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 10:53 p.m.)