Debates of June 5th, 2017

Bill C-44—Time Allocation Motion

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we are seeing far more uses of time allocation than I ever thought I would see from a new Liberal government, particularly when I read the mandate letters that went to all the ministers that spoke to respect for the members of the opposition parties and respectful debate in this place. I do concede and want to say as an opposition member that I know a tremendous amount of time has been lost lost through motions that were delaying tactics from the Conservatives and the New Democrats. I have seen it for weeks. I understand that is why we are now sitting until midnight every night.

However, I am particularly aggrieved by this use of time allocation, because this is an omnibus bill. There are many separate sections. When they are considered as one bill and we are told we have had plenty of hours for debate, I have to protest and disagree. The infrastructure bank alone deserves proper independent study. The parliamentary budget officer provisions within that section of the bill need time.

I am aware of time, so I will stop there, but an omnibus budget bill should never be rushed through. They should not exist at all.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for her comments and for the constructive tone in which she presented them. It is important for us to get our bills through in a way that is productive and that allows us to deliver on the things we promised Canadians we would do.

Our objective remains to have a well-functioning House of Commons where all parties agree to work together and to study legislation in the best interests of Canadians. That is our goal, and we find it is difficult sometimes to achieve that goal with some of the tactics that have been used in the House.

We will continue to work with the opposition to ensure that their views are communicated and a proper amount of debate is held on government legislation. We believe the amount of debate that has been held on this is appropriate. We should now move the bill to committee where it can continue to be scrutinized, so we can move forward on the work we are trying to do in order to improve the long-term health of our economy and the creation of jobs for Canadians.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I love the math skills of the finance minister. There has been twelve and a half hours for debate on Bill C-44. That is a half hour for every billion dollars of deficit in budget 2017. He did not mention the less than two hours in committee to talk about the $35 billion of infrastructure bank money that is coming from of taxpayers. That is not even four minutes for every billion dollars. Is he in such a hurry to spend taxpayer money that he does not want any scrutiny on what is being done?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we continue to view talking about the measures in the bill to be of importance. We look at it as time to work together so we can actually get things done for Canadians. That is the way we look at it. We know that Canadians expect us in the House to get bills passed, in this case, a budget bill, so that we can make a real difference for Canadians. We are starting to see some real improvements in our economy. We are starting to see big differences in terms of employment. There has been significant growth in employment. We are starting to see very positive results in our economy. We want to move forward to continue those results. That is the work we are here to do. That is the work we are doing through this budget, and I know that everyone in the House agrees with us that getting jobs for Canadians is critically important. Our bill will do just that.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I have heard the Minister of Finance say a few times during this debate that he wants to get this bill to committee. I want to make him aware that this bill has been reported back to the House. I was here on Friday when the bill was first debated, and I think we had about an hour. This morning's debate was devoted to going over the Paris accord, which I think the House has already voted on, so that was a lot of time wasted.

In what world can the Minister of Finance possibly justify that the hour we had on Friday, and beginning this debate now, is enough time for members of the opposition to hold the government to account on that bill, all 300 pages? I would say that it is not.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I understand the bill has gone through committee, and I am looking forward to it going back there to be debated. I will repeat the fact that we have had a significant amount of discussion on this bill. The length of the bill, of course, is vastly smaller than bills from the previous government. Everything in the bill is related to what we are trying to do in our economy, and that is critically important.

I will repeat the numbers. The length of debate was 12 hours and 25 minutes, the number of committee meetings was 10, and the total number of witnesses heard was 70. We have had a significant amount of review and scrutiny, and I am confident that members opposite can debate a good measure of that bill in the time allotted.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Services and Procurement]

Mr. Speaker, I am very glad that the Minister of Finance raised the subject just now of the record growth that Canada has seen for some time now, certainly since the 10 years of inaction on the part of the previous government. I am really very happy that he called our attention to the growth we saw during the first quarter here in Canada, the growth in jobs.

I would like the minister to tell the House why he would like us to act speedily to send this bill to the Senate so that these record investments in infrastructure, indigenous affairs, housing, and so forth can see the light of day.

Why does the Minister of Finance believe we must continue to forge this plan for the middle class in Canada?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member.

This is a very important question. We know that the investments are very important for the future of our country. We know that we have already assessed how well our plan works, when our unemployment rate is lower than it was before. What that means is that the unemployment rate is now 6.5. It was 7.1 or 7.2 when we started, so that is a major change.

For each case where a person has found a job, there is a family that is in a better situation. That is very important. That is what we want to do for the future with our investments in infrastructure, for example. We know we can reach a more robust economic growth rate, now and in the future, with a higher level of productivity.

We have already had a good measure of success, as the member said, since we achieved 3.7% in the last quarter. We know that we can do better with our investments in the future of Canada.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we sometimes talk about groundhog day, an expression that brings to mind the famous movie in which history repeats itself day after day. The least we can say is that nearly every three days, the government introduces a motion to limit parliamentarians’ right to speak.

That is unfortunate, particularly when it comes to Bill C-44, an essential, foundational law for our democratic process, since it implements the measures announced when the budget was tabled by the Minister of Finance. Need I point out that this is an omnibus bill that includes many other items that deserve much closer attention than simply introducing a bill that we see every day?

Some of the things this bill addresses are Investment Canada, the mandate of the parliamentary budget officer, and, most importantly, the infrastructure bank, which will be created entirely from scratch. On that point, almost all analysts and politicians agree that this is something that should be taken out of the bill so that it can be properly studied at a later date.

As well, our government has decided to use members' speaking time to table motions that, of course, only serve their interests. This morning, was the motion regarding the environment and the Paris accord tabled by the Prime Minister or the Minister of the Environment? No, much to our surprise, it was tabled by the Minister of Finance.

Does that not prove that the Paris accord means just one thing to this government, namely the Liberal carbon tax?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is clear that Bill C-44 contains only budgetary measures that affect our economy. That is why we tabled Bill C-44 in the House.

We know that time allocation is the only tool the government has to avoid indefinite delays in passing legislation. We do not take this type of decision lightly. We remain committed to ensuring that members from all sides of the House are given reasonable time to debate bills.

We continue to carry out our plan to improve our economy and have a significant growth rate. That is why Bill C-44 must be passed for Canada and for Canadians.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to make sure that Canadians understand what is happening here today, based on some of the comments that have already been made.

I want to make sure that Canadians understand that when the hon. minister talks about a well-functioning House of Commons, it would have been much more expeditious in having a well-functioning House of Commons if the Liberals had agreed to making parliamentary changes in a collegial fashion and not unilaterally. That would have saved a lot of time. It is misleading a lot of Canadians today. That is why certain tactics had to be employed to protect the health and well-being of a parliamentary process that is facing unprecedented changes.

I also want to make sure that Canadians understand the total number of hours that are being talked about in the debate. This omnibus bill has many unprecedented changes that really deserve scrutiny. On the infrastructure bank we are talking about, you can tell by the quality of the answers to the questions being asked about the infrastructure bank that it is not well understood and that it needs careful scrutiny.

I want to make sure that Canadians understand that as we move forward with this process, there are many pieces that really need that very healthy debate. We are here to do our job. I just hope Canadians understand that time allocation does not do this any justice. It is very concerning, because it keeps being said by the hon. member that this is going to go to committee. This is it. This is the debate right now. We are at report stage. It is going to go to third reading, get voted on, and go to the Senate.

It is very disconcerting to hear the other side talk about it going to committee. That is done. That ship has sailed, and you are the ones that have sailed it.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I would remind hon. members that it goes through the Speaker and not to the speaker.

The hon. Minister of Finance.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to repeat that our objective truly is to have a well-functioning House of Commons where all parties agree to work together and study legislation in the best interest of Canadians.

What do we want to make sure we achieve? We want to make sure we achieve outcomes for Canadians that really help them and their families. This is what the program we put in place and our plan is doing. By lowering taxes on Canadians and by putting in the Canada child benefit, we helped families get more disposable income. By the way, this helps our economy as well. What we have seen as a result of those measures and other measures is a reduction in unemployment. It means more people are employed, and that, of course, is what we are really trying to do for Canadians. When we say that we are really proud of what has happened in economic growth, it is not just because of economic growth on its own but because of what it means for job opportunities and for the families of Canada in the future. This is what we are trying to achieve.

We know that putting forward Bill C-44 is going to make a real difference for Canadian families. That is why we are looking forward to moving forward with the kind of measures that will help make sure that this progress scontinues.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, democracy is not a hollow concept. It entails benefits and also obligations for people working in a democratic system. The current government seems to be unaware of that and to have forgotten it.

We have a bill with more than 300 pages that amends numerous laws and we have to settle the matter in a flash, without taking the time to discuss it. The matter of the infrastructure bank alone would require several dozen hours of study. It is an important, major issue. However, at this time, the democratic promises of this government are nowhere in sight. Canadians expect more of their elected officials.

We are in a democracy, we are in a legislative assembly, and we must take the time to discuss and to listen. At this time, with all due respect, this government is offering us a bad comedy act.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as I said, we think we have had enough time to examine Bill C-44. We had a debate that lasted 12 hours 25 minutes. It is very important. Moreover, if we measure it in days, the debate lasted 4 days. We had 10 committee meetings, and 70 witnesses appeared. Finally, in the House, 54 members had the opportunity to speak on this issue.

In our opinion, we have therefore had enough time to examine Bill C-44, and we would like to pass the bill in order to make things better for Canadians.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberals are forgetting that they were elected by a minority of the population and that Bill C-44 is not an ordinary bill. It imposes tax increases on parents whose children take piano or figure skating lessons, on public transport, on Uber, on beer, and on wine. It also imposes more burdens on small and medium-sized businesses.

Above all, this legislation will add a $29.4-billion deficit to the previous $23-billion public debt. That is more than $50 billion and it is a structural deficit that upsets the balanced budget that we had achieved.

My question is for the Minister of Finance. Why do the Liberals want to muzzle the House after reneging on their promise and plunging the country into structural deficits?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, certainly there are significant figures. What I can say in this regard is that we had economic growth of 3.7% in the last quarter. That’s very significant.

In our opinion, the situation and the economic growth rate will improve as a result of the measures contained in Bill C-44. There is another very important figure, and that is the unemployment rate in our country. It is very important to create jobs for Canadians. That is exactly what we have done, with a much lower unemployment rate than before. Moreover, an additional 250,000 jobs have been created over the past seven months. This is very significant, and most of these jobs are full-time.

Time allocation is the only tool the government has to prevent indefinite delays in passing legislation. We do not take this kind of decision lightly, and we remain committed to ensuring that members on all sides of the House are given reasonable time to debate bills. We believe it is time to pass Bill C-44 to create a better future.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

§Mr. Speaker, speaking of reasonable or sufficient time for debate, opposition members have proposed over 100 amendments to this bill. That means that the opposition has many concerns.

Does the Minister of Finance seriously think that five hours are enough to deal with all these concerns, these 100 amendments?

This is not nothing, and we need time to debate it all.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we believe that a good number of people have had the opportunity to speak. Fifty-four members have spoken. Debate is important, but we think that 12 hours and 25 minutes is enough. We must now do what we are here to do in the House, which is improve our economic growth. That is the goal of Bill C-44. That is what we want to do, and the time is now.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, during his speech, the minister indicated that the size of our economy is growing. Could he elaborate on how our plan is working, and what are the signs that our economy has been growing over the past 18 months?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the best way to think about this is to think about why the government is here. What happened in the years before we got here was that the level of growth was just not high enough to produce the results Canadians need. We knew that the level of unemployment people were facing when we came into office was unacceptably high. I want to remind the members of this House that when we talk about unemployment levels, they forget that there are actually people we are trying to get jobs for, and that is exactly what our plan has done. We have actually increased the number of jobs in this country.

I know that when the members on the opposite side, just like the members on this side, go back to their home ridings and knock on doors, the people who have jobs who did not have jobs before are going to be happy. I know that they know, like we do, that the level of economic growth is much higher than it was in the last number of years. What we are seeing right now is strong growth. That is going to be really positive for people in the ridings of the members on the opposite side of the House. People are going to be happy, and we are fine if, when the members go to those doors, they actually take a bit of the positive impact themselves, because they are in the House where we are creating this growth.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Speaker, does our hon. colleague have the per-province, per-riding breakdown of the number of jobs the Liberals say they have created since they have been in office?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, those numbers are available. We believe that our responsibility, and what we are absolutely committed to doing, is moving forward continuously on a program to grow the economy and to create more jobs. The good news is that it is working, and it is working across the country. It is a situation we need to remain focused on so that we can ensure that we are having results all across the country. I can assure the member that when we have economic growth that is 3.7% in the first quarter, when we see parts of our country that had a pretty big challenge last year, like Alberta, that are going to have higher growth this year, we start to realize that there are going to be opportunities for people across the country, and that is positive. We are going to stay on it. In this bill, Bill C-44, the good news is that when the members opposite decide to vote for this, what will happen is better job opportunities in their ridings.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am flabbergasted that the Minister of Finance is imposing yet another time allocation motion. Debate is being cut short. The finance minister has the nerve to congratulate himself on letting 54 members speak. We are 338 members in this House. What about democracy?

This is one of the most important bills we can study. It amends 30 pieces of legislation. It is 300 pages long.

We are granted only five hours to debate such a bill? How generous. One hundred amendments have been tabled. How can we go in depth in five hours with less than one-sixth of members being allowed to take part in the debate?

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

The hon. Minister of Finance has 45 seconds to answer.