Debates of Oct. 25th, 2018

Carbon Pricing

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order. I am not sure if the hon. member for Cypress Hills—Grasslands heard what I said a minute ago, but I would ask him to remember what I said a minute ago, which is to remember that members speak when they have the floor and not otherwise.

The hon. member for Carleton.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there goes the minister quoting the lobbyists for the multi-millionaire CEOs. Of course they support this carbon tax. It is not a big expense for them when they have chauffeured limousines paid for by the company, especially if they are one of the companies that has the 90% exemption the Liberal government has provided to the large industrial corporations. The reality is that small businesses have no similar exemption. Why will small businesses, like a local corner store, pay more while large corporations, with their well-paid CEOs, get off?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Mr. Speaker, small businesses also care about tackling climate change, they also care about the environment and they understand the cost of inaction. We are supporting small businesses. We will be providing $1 billion through our climate plan in Ontario that will help support small businesses to be more energy efficient to save money.

Let us talk about who else is talking about our plan: the Canadian Association of Physicians for the Environment. This is good news for human health and the planet. This is how we protect people from the harmful impacts of heat waves, drought, wildfires, floods and hurricanes that are becoming more frequent and more intense—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order.

The hon. member for Carleton.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Prime Minister was asked nine times whether or not small businesses would get the same exemption as large industrial corporations do under this Liberal carbon tax. Nine times he refused to answer. We know that this will cost more in fuel, heating and transportation for those small businesses. They are the lifeblood of our economy and they are already paying higher taxes as a result of the Prime Minister's tax increases.

A direct question: Will small businesses get the same exemption as the large industrial corporations, yes or no?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Mr. Speaker, we have already said that there is going to be a price on pollution, and everyone is going to pay the price on pollution, whether one is a big industrial emitter or a small business. We are also going to help small businesses save money. When one is more energy efficient, one actually saves money.

However, let us talk about Stephen Harper's former director of policy who said, “We think the federal government is doing the right thing in putting a price on carbon in those provinces that have not done so, and in returning the money directly to households. This will...encourage lower emissions, while also ensuring that Canadian families will not be negatively affected.”

Foreign Affairs

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in a Tuesday interview with the CBC, the Prime Minister said, “I do not want to leave Canadians holding a billion dollar bill”. However, yesterday, the Prime Minister's Office backtracked on that number and said this supposed $1-billion penalty for cancelling the Saudi arms deal was an “expression”. I am not kidding. He said it was an “expression”.

Canadians know this deal must be cancelled and have the right to know why the Prime Minister is using this as an excuse. Why is the Prime Minister making up numbers? Is it so that he does not have to cancel the arms deal with Saudi Arabia?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, of course, we strongly demand and expect that Canadian arms exports are used in a way that fully respects human rights. That is why our government is committed to a stronger and more rigorous arms export system under the Arms Trade Treaty.

As the Prime Minister said yesterday, we are actively reviewing existing export permits to Saudi Arabia.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, is that seriously all they have to say?

After turning a deaf ear to appeals from Germany and our allies to at least suspend the sale of arms to Saudi Arabia, the Prime Minister clearly stated on Tuesday that cancelling this contract would cost $1 billion.

Where does this figure come from? From his imagination, apparently, because the next day, his office said that it was just a figure of speech. A figure of speech means saying something like “this is not rocket science” or “this is not brain surgery”. It does not mean snatching a number out of thin air in response to a question that called for a specific figure.

Why is the Prime Minister inventing numbers like this? Is he trying to avoid having to cancel the contract?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, as I said earlier, we strongly demand and expect that Canadian arms exports are used in a way that fully respects human rights. That is why our government is committed to a stronger and more rigorous arms export system. As the Prime Minister said today, we are actively reviewing Saudi Arabia's existing export permits.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, for our allies, like Germany, the murder of Jamal Khashoggi was the tipping point. Chancellor Angela Merkel decided to stop exporting weapons to Saudi Arabia because it was the right thing to do. We have been calling for years for the Canadian government to do the same.

Everyone knows the kingdom is one of the worst human rights offenders in the world. This alone should be enough. What are the Liberals waiting for?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, our government is working with our allies to consider a number of options going forward. We are actively reviewing existing export permits to Saudi Arabia. We strongly expect that Canadian exports are used in a way that is consistent with Canada's foreign policy objectives and that fully respects human rights. We have frozen arms export permits before when we have had concerns about their potential misuse, and we will not hesitate to do so again.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the explanations coming out of Riyadh concerning the murder of Jamal Khashoggi are inconsistent and contradictory.

Today, for the first time, the Attorney General of Saudi Arabia spoke of a premeditated act. With the treatment of women, dissidents and religious minorities, not to mention the war in Yemen, and now this murder, we have reached the tipping point. We have been calling on the government to take action for years.

When will we stop selling arms to Saudi Arabia?

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, as I said before, we are actively reviewing the situation with respect to our contract with Saudi Arabia.

We have frozen exports before when we suspected that these arms would be used to violate human rights.

We will not hesitate to use the same procedure in future if we are convinced that these arms will be used to violate human rights.

Carbon Pricing

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's carbon tax will cost the average Canadian family way more than the Liberals are letting on. As gas and electricity prices rise, small businesses will have to increase their prices to pay their bills, making it even more difficult to survive.

This is not just a tax on carbon. It is a tax on everything: gasoline, home heating, groceries and transportation, and this tax does nothing to reduce emissions. With Halloween just around the corner, would the minister now agree that her carbon tax swindle is a trick not a treat?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Mr. Speaker, Mark Carney, the governor of the Bank of England, said, “You need a price on carbon, a price on pollution.... Canada, as of today, can have both.... [It will] unlock...investment decisions which will make...more low-carbon economy.”

Dale Beugin, the executive director of Ecofiscal Commission, said, “Bigger households get bigger cheques” and “most households” will see rebates that are “larger than their carbon pricing costs. Households will see net gains.”

The David Suzuki Foundation has stated that carbon pricing is essential to effectively fight—

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order. Most members in all parties are able to sit through question period and hear lots of things they do not like without interrupting or feeling they have to react before it is their turn. I would ask members to show a little respect for this place.

The hon. member for Louis-Saint-Laurent.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal carbon tax is going to have a direct impact on the price of everything Canadians need to buy.

Of course the Liberals are couching this in lofty principles, saying that polluters must pay. The problem is that not all polluters are being treated equally. Small business owners will have to pay the full price, while major polluters will get a 90% discount. The little guys will have to pay more than the big guys.

Why the double standard?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Mr. Speaker, I am very surprised to see the member across the aisle opposing all the parties in Quebec. Those parties want us to take action on climate change and put a price on pollution. They know that pollution is not free.

The question is, what is the Conservative plan?

There is no Conservative plan. They want pollution to be free. They do not want to do anything to tackle climate change. Canadians are paying the price for pollution now. The Conservatives should come up with a plan and start taking the issue seriously.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the Saskatchewan Stock Growers Association is saying that beef producers will have to absorb the cost of this Liberal carbon tax. They export their products and must compete on international pricing. The impact of the Prime Minister's carbon tax will cut into ranchers' bottom lines and these additional costs will eat into the livelihoods of hard-working farm families.

Why is the Prime Minister so set on punishing beef producers with higher costs for inputs, such as feed and animal transportation?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Mr. Speaker, we know that farmers understand the impacts of climate change. Droughts and floods are having severe impacts and we know that in the future that will continue to happen. That is why we are working with farmers. Our plan exempts farm fuels and diesels used for on-farm use.

We are also supporting—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order. I have already heard an awful lot today from the hon. member for Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa and the hon. member for Huron—Bruce and I would rather they wait until they have the floor, obviously, as is required by the Standing Orders.

The hon. Minister of Environment has the floor.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we will continue to work with farmers, we will continue to work with small businesses and we will continue to work with cities. We are working with everyone because we know that climate change has a real cost right now and we owe it to Canadians.

We owe it to the next generation to take serious action while making life more affordable for Canadians. We can do both, but what is the Conservative plan?