Debates of Oct. 26th, 2018

Carbon Pricing

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Madam Speaker, I am happy to stand up and talk about our climate plan, because I am always hopeful that the other side will learn to understand that, one, climate change is real; two, we need to take action; and three, there is an economic opportunity.

Let me talk about what folks are saying about our plan. The CEO of the Toronto Region Board of Trade said:

...a successful price on carbon should be transparent, revenue neutral and provide support for trade-exposed industries.

The Board is encouraged with today's announcement...largely satisfies these objectives. We look forward to working with the federal government to ensure the support provided to small-and medium-sized businesses helps them remain competitive.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Madam Speaker, it is no surprise that CEOs are happy with the Liberal carbon tax. That is part of the high-tax hypocrisy. They get exempted if they run large industrial corporations. They get a 90% exemption on their emissions, while small businesses like plumbers, carpenters and pizza shop owners will pay the tax on 100% of the energy they use to run their businesses.

I have a simple yes or no question. Will small businesses get the same exemption from the Liberal carbon tax as the large industrial emitters? Yes or no.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Madam Speaker, Canadians want to know, yes or no, do the Conservatives have a climate plan that is going to meet their target. Canadians would love to see this climate plan.

Let us be clear. We have put a price on pollution for everyone, whether a small business or a big business or all Canadians, because we know that polluting is not free. We have done this in a way that makes sense, that ensures that companies are competitive and that will also put more money in the pockets of Canadians.

We know everyone wants to be part of the solution, because everyone is feeling the impacts of climate change, and they also understand the huge economic opportunity of clean growth.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Madam Speaker, the member still does not answer the question. She is giving an exemption to the large corporate industrial emitters. They get a 90% writeoff on the carbon tax, whereas small businesses, which are the engine of job creation and growth in the country, will have to pay the tax on 100% of the energy they consume. It is just like when the Prime Minister protects his personal trust fund.

Will the government end the high-tax hypocrisy and extend the same exemption to our small businesses, yes or no?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Madam Speaker, I am always pleased to stand up and, once again, explain how our climate plan works in the hope that the Conservatives will finally have a climate plan that meets the target.

We have a plan that ensures that everyone pays a price on pollution, but the approach we have taken for large emitters should be an approach the Conservatives would support, because presumably, they want good jobs to stay in Canada, they want big businesses to reduce their emissions, and they also want us to grow the economy. That is the approach we have taken. It is the approach followed in Europe. It is the approach followed in Alberta. It is the approach followed in Quebec, in California and in China.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

There is the admission, Madam Speaker, that we were looking for. The minister said that we should support her exemption on the carbon tax for large industrial emitters, because that will keep jobs here in Canada, which means that applying that same tax to small businesses, which are the largest creators of jobs, will actually send jobs out of Canada. That is her admission. She admits the carbon tax will drive jobs out of this country.

If that is the case for large industrial corporations, and that is why they are getting an exemption, will the minister extend that exemption to small businesses, yes or no?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Madam Speaker, once again, do not take it from me that our climate plan works. Take it from Mark Carney, the Governor of the Bank of England, who said:

You need a price on carbon, a price on pollution..... Canada, as of today, we have both.... [It] unlock[s]...investment decisions which will make for a more...low carbon economy.

The executive director of the Canadian Association of Physicians for the Environment said:

We strongly support this legislation. As health professionals, we are deeply concerned about the impacts that climate change is having, and will have, on the health of Canadians and people around the world.

Why do the Conservatives insist on making pollution free?

Indigenous Affairs

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Madam Speaker, indigenous leaders have been calling on the Liberal government to fix its broken NEB process that approved the Trans Mountain pipeline.

This week, Grand Chief Stewart Phillip said, it is “absolutely amazing that the prime minister is without conscience, without any sense of responsibility to the citizens of this country and future generations”.

The Liberals claim that their most important relationship is with indigenous peoples, but that means nothing if they will not do the right thing.

Will the Liberals start listening and cancel the pipeline expansion once and for all?

[Paul Lefebvre, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Natural Resources, Lib.]

Madam Speaker, we understand that protecting the environment, growing the economy and respecting indigenous peoples can be done at the same time. The NDP does not.

The Federal Court of Appeal has provided us with a very clear path to move this project forward in the right way, and that is what we are doing. I encourage members of the NDP to read the whole TMX decision, not just the parts they agree with.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Clearly, Madam Speaker, the government just does not get it when it comes to the environment and the broken NEB process.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result. Let us look at the facts. Indigenous leaders are saying it is broken. Environmental groups are saying it is broken. Residents of B.C. and Canadians from coast to coast are saying it is broken. What do the Liberals do? They try this failed approach one more time.

What will it take for the government to acknowledge that the process is broken and drop the expansion?

[Paul Lefebvre, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Natural Resources, Lib.]

Madam Speaker, obviously we are following the Federal Court of Appeal's decision and the direction it has provided us with. It has told us that we need to consult more with indigenous communities affected by the TMX pipeline, and that is exactly what we are doing right now. We respect the court's decision, and we are moving forward in the right way with meaningful dialogue.

That is exactly what Canadians expect of us, and that is what we are delivering.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Madam Speaker, the Liberals fancy themselves champions of the environment, but everyone knows that is just a facade.

Behind the smiles and lofty rhetoric, behind closed doors, the Liberals are busy giving a free pass to their friends in the oil industry and using our money to buy pipelines like Trans Mountain.

When the Conservatives promise to bring back energy east, a pipeline that Quebeckers soundly rejected, the so-called champions of the environment leave the door wide open.

Are the 40 Liberal MPs from Quebec prepared to promise to never resurrect energy east?

[Paul Lefebvre, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Natural Resources, Lib.]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise to answer that question.

The energy east project was a business decision by TransCanada. Oddly enough, some NDP MPs support the LNG Canada project, which will create roughly 10,000 jobs in the riding represented by the hon. member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley. That will be one of the safest projects in the world when it comes to the environment.

They pick and choose which pipelines to approve, while our goal is to ensure that Canadians are happy with the system that we are putting in place.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Madam Speaker, we do not pick and choose; we listen to what people tell us. We have been asking this question for weeks, and the government has been giving us non-answers on energy east the whole time.

There is massive opposition to energy east. People in Trois-Rivières, Montreal, Quebec City and in the regions all know that this pipeline puts the St. Lawrence River and many of its waterways at risk. Ottawa is not listening. The official opposition is promising to resurrect the pipeline, and the government refuses to shut the door on it for good.

When will the Liberals listen to Quebeckers and say no to energy east, once and for all?

[Paul Lefebvre, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Natural Resources, Lib.]

Madam Speaker, the NDP obviously does not understand how countries approve or reject major projects.

In the TMX project case, the Court of Appeal told us that protecting the environment and consulting indigenous peoples must go hand in hand. Canadians expect us to respect the environment, indigenous peoples and, at the same time, Canadian jurisprudence.

The Conservatives do not yet understand all this, and the NDP clearly knows nothing about such things.

Carbon Pricing

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Madam Speaker, this question period is very informative.

Earlier, when asked a question by the member for Carleton, the Minister of Environment and Climate Change finally acknowledged that large emitters will not pay 100% of the tax because that could result in job losses. The Liberal carbon tax could affect jobs.

The question for the minister is very simple. Why is there a double standard?

Why will small businesses pay 100%, while large emitters get a 90% writeoff?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Madam speaker, I am really surprised by this Quebec member. Every political party in Quebec, both federal and provincial, supports carbon pricing.

Why does the federal Conservative Party and the member from Quebec not support a price on pollution? We know that we must tackle climate change and that there is a cost to pollution. I hope that the member will listen to Quebeckers, who want us to address climate change, want a price on pollution and want a clean economy.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Madam Speaker, Conservatives respect the will of the provinces. Every province should be able to do what it wants, but the Liberal government is imposing its will on the provinces.

I also want to point out that Quebec's system treats everyone equally. Be they large, small or medium-sized, all emitters are treated the same.

Why does the Liberal Party have a double standard, unlike Quebec, which respects everyone?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Madam Speaker, I would suggest that the member talk to someone in Quebec who knows the system. Our approach for large emitters is the same approach based on the same principles we see in Quebec, Europe and China.

We want to make sure that Canadian companies doing business abroad are more competitive, reduce their emissions and create good jobs here in Canada.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Madam Speaker, Canadians know there is no way the Liberal carbon tax will save money. Ferguson Fancy Beans in my riding says that the Liberal Wynne carbon tax alone cost them over $50,000 last year.

On an admission of her own policy, the environment minister admitted that 90% of the exemption for big emitters focused on keeping jobs in Canada. Will the government extend this to Ferguson Fancy Beans as well?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Madam Speaker, I will once again turn to experts. Stephen Harper's former director of policy stated:

We think the federal government is doing the right thing in putting a price on carbon in those provinces that have not done so, and in returning the money directly to households. This will...will encourage lower emissions, while also ensuring that Canadian families will not be negatively affected.

Dale Beugin, the executive director of Ecofiscal Commission, stated, ““Bigger households get bigger cheques” and “more most households, rebates will larger than their carbon pricing costs. Households will see net gains.”

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Madam Speaker, Bert Baxter Transport, a family owned and operated company in my riding, will deeply feel the consequences of the Prime Minister's failure to support small businesses in Canada. The forced Liberal carbon tax will increase the annual cost of diesel fuel for its trucks by over $400,000 dollars by 2022. It will have to choose between charging its customers more or laying off many of its employees. Where is its discount?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Madam Speaker, whether one is a trucker, a farmer, a small business owner, an environmentalist or a child, we are all paying the cost of climate change right now. We are paying the cost through extreme weather events like floods, droughts, forest fires. Ninety people died in Quebec this summer because of extreme heat. The cost to Canadians have gone from $400 million to over a billion dollars. The UN climate report projects that the cost to the world will be in the trillions of dollars if we do not take action now.

It is not free to pollute, it should not be free to pollute and our government will not allow it to be free to pollute.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Madam Speaker, Boombata Homes is an innovative company that will be hit hard by the Liberal carbon tax imposed on Saskatchewan businesses. It means that families working hard to afford a home will now face even higher prices. It also means that the Liberal affordable housing program will be more expensive.

Jason and Susan know what it will mean for their business, their subcontractors and their construction workers. They know an election gimmick when they see one. Why do large corporations get exemptions from the government and they do not?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Minister of Environment and Climate Change]

Madam Speaker, when I talk to small businesses, and I have talked to small businesses across the country, what do they want to do? They want to do right by the environment. They want to be more energy efficient, save money and lower their emissions.

I will give the example of VariForm. It is a steel manufacturer in Cambridge. What did it do? It reduced its emissions by 80% and saved a million dollars.

We are going to support small businesses to be more energy efficient so they can save money to reinvest in their businesses and create more jobs.