House of Commons Hansard #357 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was post.

Topics

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:05 a.m.

Waterloo Ontario

Liberal

Bardish Chagger LiberalLeader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, in relation to the consideration of Government Business No. 25, I move:

That the debate be not further adjourned.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

Pursuant to Standing Order 67.1, there will now be a 30-minute question period. I invite hon. members who wish to ask questions to rise in their place so the Chair has some idea of the number of members who wish to participate in this question period.

The hon. member for Foothills.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to pose questions to the minister on this issue.

Yesterday during her presentation she talked about the crisis that our small businesses across Canada are facing. We have heard from small businesses across the country that have said many of them are losing as much as $3,000 a month, which for them is critical revenue at their busiest time of the year. The money they make during the Christmas season allows them to remain in business for the rest of the calendar year. On top of losing that $3,000 a month, in many cases they are losing the people they hire for their busiest time of the year.

This is critical not only for our businesses here in Canada but also for those businesses that operate outside of the country. Many countries that we do business with have been told by the government not to send mail to Canada. This shows how much we rely on a dependable mail service.

My question to the minister is: why did the government not act sooner? It knew this crisis was coming. Why did it wait until we are in a crisis situation before it took action?

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:05 a.m.

Thunder Bay—Superior North Ontario

Liberal

Patty Hajdu LiberalMinister of Employment

Mr. Speaker, we agree that this service is of critical importance not just to small business but to Canadians across the country, people in rural and remote communities, and people who rely on Canada Post for payments of all different kinds.

Tabling legislation is not a decision that we have taken lightly. We have worked very closely with the parties to ensure that the collective bargaining process has been supported. We have provided mediation through federal mediation service. We have provided a special mediator who I have reappointed several times. After five weeks of strikes with little progress, we have really run out of options.

I reject the sentiment that we have not acted quickly enough. This is what respecting the collective bargaining process looks like, unlike the previous Harper government that sometimes did not even allow negotiations to proceed.

From my perspective, we have acted prudently with respect for collective bargaining, with respect for labour but also with the interests of Canadians in mind.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:05 a.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the hon. minister a couple of questions. The first being, if she does respect collective bargaining, why two or three weeks ago did the government make it very clear to the post office that it would bring in back-to-work legislation thereby crippling the attempts of the union to negotiate fairly on behalf of its members?

Second, is the minister aware of a notice that was sent out by Canada Post last week to its members instructing them not to deliver government cheques such as Canada child benefit cheques, welfare cheques, to anyone until after November 22? It would seem to me that is a tactic that the post office is using to create a crisis, and we have heard about those who would create a crisis.

If the minister could give me some clarity on both of those questions, I would truly appreciate it.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Mr. Speaker, I reject the sentiment that we talked about back-to-work legislation earlier than we had to. We have worked with the parties, as I said, consistently, not just for the past five weeks during the rotating strikes but also over the past year, by providing the parties every tool necessary to reach a collective agreement.

We have appointed federal mediation services. We have appointed special mediators. We have reappointed special mediators. We have worked very hard with both parties to help them reach an agreement. However, having said that, we are now at a time where we have to take action.

Let us remember the abysmal record of the Harper government Conservatives when it came to fair and balanced labour relations. They consistently undermined the collecting bargaining process, including legislating the terms of an agreement, introducing Bill C-525 and Bill C-377, which was a direct attack on organized labour. We have reversed that legislation.

This is something that we believe is prudent at this time. The Canadian economy and Canadian workers of all different stripes are depending on us to ensure that Canada Post can function this season.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Mr. Speaker, the minister talked about her actions not being taken lightly. However, let us take a look at what the government has taken lightly. Myself and several other members from the operations committee spent three weeks on the road studying Canada Post at the request of the government.

What the government has not addressed is the report that we put forward from an independent auditor that shows that Canada Post is going to be losing three-quarters of a billion dollars a year of the taxpayers' money in the short term. The government has done nothing. It has taken this lightly.

The government let the Canada Post board sit with eight to nine vacant positions, despite saying that it has not taken this lightly. The government has done nothing about it. Almost a year ago, we had the minister of procurement overseeing Canada Post, in committee, with the temporary president of Canada Post. The position was supposed to have been replaced about six months ago. We were assured, hand over heart, of course, by the minister that they were going to find a permanent president soon to address all of these issues.

The government says again and again that it not taken this issue lightly but the record shows that is has not done anything to address this. The fact is this strike is not the fault of the workers or CUPW. It is due to the political incompetence of the minister and the government.

My question is this. When is the government going to get its act together, appoint a permanent president and deliver a proper plan for Canada Post so that we can avoid issues such as we are facing now?

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Mr. Speaker, I find it a little rich that the party opposite is going to comment on labour relations, given the egregious behaviour that it displayed during the 10 years that it ran this country, and ran this country poorly. May I remind my colleagues that they had the lowest rate of growth? May I remind them of the astronomical amount of debt that this country accumulated during the 10 years of the Harper government? I think the—

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:10 a.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

Order. Order. Let us have one at a time.

I would ask the hon. member for Edmonton West to come to order. As much as I enjoy the dulcet tones, I prefer them when it is his turn.

The hon. Minister of Employment.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Mr. Speaker, let us just take one example of the Air Canada dispute, which was ended with pre-emptive legislation before the collecting bargaining process could run its course and before employees could exercise their legal rights. Our approach is very different to the previous government and we firmly believe that the best deals are the ones that are negotiated between the parties, which is why we have worked so hard over the last year and a bit to help these parties find a negotiated agreement.

We have provided, once again, all of the tools necessary to the parties to find that agreement. We provided conciliation officers and mediators. We appointed a special mediator, not once but several times. We offered voluntary arbitration. We have reappointed a special mediator who has been working with the parties today. They are still working today with the mediator and we hope that they find a deal.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Mr. Speaker, I hope that the Liberal MPs on the opposite side hang their heads in shame every time they see a postal worker in their respective ridings. It is easy for the Liberals to attend labour AGMs, to stand with workers and offer flowery words, but the real work in standing up for the rights of workers comes at moments like this. This is where the government is lacking.

I am so irked by the government's words. The minister has to admit that with the threat of back-to-work legislation hanging over this totally manufactured crisis, Canada Post had no reason and no incentive to negotiate in good faith. That is the critical area of the argument today.

Why on earth would Canada Post's executives negotiate in good faith when all they have to do is wait out the clock for the government to come to their rescue?

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased that the member opposite wants to talk about the work we have been doing with labour and the support for workers in our country, because in fact there is no question that our government has taken the well-being of workers very seriously.

First, we repealed Bill C-525 and C-377. We passed Bill C-4, which restored fair and balanced labour relations in the country. It made it easier for organized labour to recruit new members and grow their movements. We amended the Canada Labour Code to give federally regulated employees the right to flexible work arrangements and implement different leaves. We strengthened occupational health and safety standards. We passed Bill C-65, which provides federally regulated employees with protection against workplace violence. We ratified ILO convention 98 to ensure the right to organize and to collective bargaining.

Through Bill C-86, we are modernizing labour standards, largely informed by the conversations we have had with organized labour about the most vulnerable workers in our workplaces and the protections they need in a modern Canada Labour Code.

We introduced pay equity legislation. Again, it was appealed for by labour for many years before we formed government. We worked with them to make sure we could listen to those concerns and address something that is fundamentally a right: equal pay for work of equal value. We have almost doubled the benefits from the wage earner protection program.

I could go on. Our government profoundly believes in the rights of workers, especially the most vulnerable workers in our workplaces, and we have worked very well with organized labour to make sure we get those details right.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

Mr. Speaker, I know that in the last Parliament there were many strikes that were averted. We have fine mediators who do great work. I know of many cases where our ministers made sure the strikes were averted by the work they did at the table, sleeping in the port, and really getting the job done. When on occasion we did have to introduce back-to-work legislation, because it was having critical impacts on the economy, we did it, but we allowed for gruelling debate in the House. This government is not only doing back-to-work legislation, but it has put forth a motion with much less opportunity for debate. Its draconian measures are much worse than anything we ever did in terms of back-to-work legislation. We allowed for debate. How can the minister justify it? It is draconian.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Mr. Speaker, this is a great two-part question. First, I have members opposite asking me to hurry up and get this done and asking why we did not act sooner, and then we have members from the same party saying we should slow this down. I really am quite confused about what they are saying because, quite frankly, I am hearing two separate messages from the members opposite.

Let me just talk about their record. Back-to-work legislation was used four times since 2011, after they received their majority, and they threatened twice more. The final arbitration they used in their legislation was heavy-handed, oftentimes dictating terms of the collective agreement. The legislation we have tabled is completely different. These are not the same heavy-handed tactics the previous government took. I find it appalling that the member opposite would imply that.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

NDP

Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, that is poppycock. It is the same draconian measure as the Harper government. This is virtually the same motion it used when it legislated CP Rail workers back to work as well. This was a creation of Peter Van Loan, and the Liberals are now using it.

On the question of Bill C-377 and C-525, because the Liberals have made it pretty clear they want to coast through this entire Parliament, with this being the one meaningful thing they did for labour, the fact of the matter is one of the most egregious provisions of Bill C-377 was going to be that the unions would have to disclose the amount in their strike fund. The reason that was a bad thing was because unions need to be able to go out on strike and not have the employer know how long they could sustain a strike. The strike is what gives them leverage at the bargaining table.

How dare the minister get up and say they got rid of Bill C-377 so they are here for labour, ignoring the fact they are implementing back-to-work legislation. That ends the strike anyway, in which case, what does it matter what is in their strike fund, because the government is going to artificially end the strike anyway. They cannot give with one hand and take away with the other and then call themselves a champion of labour.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

November 23rd, 2018 / 10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am grateful for the question from the member opposite. It allows me to reiterate the work we have done in partnership with organized labour to strengthen workplaces and to provide decent work in this country for the most vulnerable workers.

There is no question that our government has made huge strides to actually protect workers in Canadian workplaces. He is right. Since forming government, we have repealed extremely harmful legislation that made it much harder for unions to organize and collectively bargain. We amended the Canada Labour Code to provide additional rights to flexibility for workers and to implement different leaves. We strengthened occupational and health and safety standards for workers so that they would have safe workplaces, something unions have fought for for a very long time. We passed Bill C-65 to protect workers from harassment, sexual violence and violence of all kinds. We ratified ILO Convention 98, which protects the right of workers to collectively organize and bargain.

In Bill C-86, we would modernize labour standards, which would, again, provide basic standards for the most vulnerable, and dignified work in workplaces that oftentimes vulnerable workers struggle in. We are introducing pay equity legislation, which would provide for mandatory assessments of work in federally regulated workplaces and make sure that women receive pay for work of equal value. We have almost doubled the benefits through the Wage Earner Protection Program Act, something unions have talked consistently about needing for those vulnerable workers. Finally, and I do not think it is a small thing, we have taken steps to ban asbestos in our workplaces, something organized labour again has fought for.

We have worked closely with organized labour. We will continue to work closely with organized labour. I am proud of the record of this government.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am continually astounded by the naivety of the current Liberal government. It seems to me that it never considers competent leadership when it is doing something. When one has a plan, one also has to have a backup plan. There needs to be a contingency. The government has waited until the 11th hour on this crisis, when it has started to affect small businesses. It is affecting Canadians. It is going to affect the delivery of Christmas presents. It has waited until the absolute last moment, and now it is scrambling because it does not have a plan.

This is not the first time this has happened. It was the same deal with the pipeline out west. It had two years to try to remove the barriers to getting the thing built. Again, there was total naivety, no backup plan and no contingency. Why?

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Mr. Speaker, yet again, we have a conflicting message from the party opposite. Is it either too fast or too slow? I cannot quite figure it out from the question.

Let me just answer this. I well tell members right now that our plan is to put forward, if necessary, legislation that is going to have guiding principles that will not look like the draconian legislation of the previous Harper government. In fact, we are going to make sure that the arbitrator is chosen in a non-partial way and a way that will not result in the arbitrator being removed for conflict of interest, as was the case with the previous minister of labour's decision. We are going to make sure that there are principles that respect the needs of the workers and respect the needs of the corporation.

The legislation is tabled. Members can look at it. This is dramatically different from the previous government's approach.

We are proud of the work we are doing with organized labour. We know that we need to have this legislation in place should the parties not come to an agreement. However, I encourage them both to do so.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

NDP

Anne Minh-Thu Quach NDP Salaberry—Suroît, QC

Mr. Speaker, today is a black Friday for several reasons, but mainly because the federal government is trying to force thousands of mail carriers and other employees who are fighting for better working conditions to go back to work. We are currently discussing a closure motion on a closure motion, a super closure motion. That is not the usual way of doing business, and it is undemocratic.

In 2015, the current Prime Minister criticized the Harper government for intervening and forcing mail carriers back to work. Today, his government is doing exactly the same thing. It is unbelievable. Management and labour are being asked to negotiate in good faith, but how can that happen when the government is going to force employees back to work regardless?

Thousands of workers are having trouble getting paid for overtime. The employer does not even recognize their overtime. It also does not recognize pay equity between mail carriers who work in rural and suburban areas.

Why are the Liberals, who claim to be great defenders of workers, dismissing all of those concerns out of hand? Then they expect us to take them at their word when they say that they believe in defending workers' rights.

Today, the government is violating workers' rights. It is humiliating workers who provide services day after day. I cannot understand how things has gotten to this point. We will not even have one day of debate in total on a bill that will impact thousands of families across the country.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Mr. Speaker, in fact, the labour disruption is affecting thousands of families across the country, including Canada Post workers, of course. It is certainly affecting the thousands of small businesses that rely on Canada Post to deliver packages to get their goods to their customers. These are small businesses, where the margin is so tight that the loss of their most profitable season can mean the end of their businesses. The member is absolutely right that this is a situation that is affecting thousands of Canadians, and I would suggest millions of Canadians, across the country.

This proposed legislation we are introducing will be impartial and fair to both parties. These are some of the measures we have included in the proposed legislation, should we have to use it. We would permit the parties to voluntarily conclude new collective agreements at any time before the mediator/arbitrator issues his or her final report. We would give the parties an opportunity to participate in the selection of a mediator/arbitrator by proposing three candidates to the minister. If both parties proposed the same person, the minister would be required to appoint that person as the mediator/arbitrator. If the parties did not propose the same person, the minister would appoint the mediator/arbitrator after seeking advice from the chair of the Canada Industrial Relations Board. There would also be guiding principles that would be very balanced.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

NDP

Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have to say that this shows how little Liberals know about the house of Labour, because when they come for one of us, they come for all of us. When they come for postal workers, they are coming for every worker across this country.

Everyone today knows that when Canada Post picks up the red phone to let the Liberals know that it wants people to be sent back to work, the Liberals will be happy to do it.

We are talking in this proposed legislation about workers, women, who are not paid equally. How many times have we heard the government talk about pay equity for women in this Parliament? Here is a concrete example of women not being paid equally who are now going to be forced back into that workplace. There are rural people who are not being paid for all the hours they work. Apparently it is okay with the Liberal government that there are Canadians out there working hard who are not being paid. That is unacceptable.

This is the busiest time of year, and with the injury rate they have at Canada Post, the Liberal government would force them back into a situation where they will have forced overtime. There will be more injuries before Christmas, because there will be nothing to help the health and safety of these workers at their busiest, most vulnerable time of year. However, this Liberal government is quite content to do exactly what the Conservatives did before it and force working people, without rights, back to work. The minister is sending those workers back into those conditions.

My plea is that we do not have to do this. The Liberals do not have to send people back into a situation where there is no equality for women and no health and safety and where workers rights are being disrespected. The Liberals had time to draft not only back-to-work legislation, which the minister seems incredibly proud of, which is bizarre, but legislation on a super-closure motion, which we have been debating. It had a lot of time.

Will the minister now take the time, pick up that red phone and call Canada Post and tell it to negotiate at the table in a fair way for working people in our country?

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Mr. Speaker, I find it incredible that the member opposite does not think that my considerable messages, publicly and privately, to the members who are negotiating this collective agreement have not been encouraging them to get a deal. I clearly have said it countless times over the last five weeks, certainly privately to those members and publicly through the press. This is something we take incredibly seriously. I will say again that the best deal is the deal the two parties can negotiate together.

Having said that, we have had a year of mediated negotiations. We have had special mediators. We have had special mediators re-appointed. I have offered voluntary arbitration. The parties have not accepted.

We are at a critical point here. These strikes are affecting Canadian businesses and rural communities.

I will tell the member about some of the comments and messages I am receiving: “Thank you, minister, for taking this seriously, because my livelihood depends on getting the cheques that are owed to me by the people who buy my things. If I don't receive these cheques, I am going to go out of business, and I employ five employees.”

These are the kinds of messages my colleagues and I have been receiving. This is about all Canadians. This is about making sure that the parties have, if necessary, legislation that will be fair and balanced. However, we know that the Canadian economy, small and medium-sized businesses and rural and remote residents rely on this very important service.

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Mr. Speaker, the notion of the Liberals so far has been that they never take responsibility for their actions. The message today is a result of non-action on their side. They keep blaming others all the way. They keep laying the blame on other people. They have been on the job for three years, and they still do not take responsibility for their actions.

When will the time come when the Liberals start taking action and stop this childish behaviour that has been occurring since they became the government in 2015?

Motion that debate be not further adjournedResumption and Continuation of Postal Service Operations LegislationGovernment Orders

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Mr. Speaker, again, we see a divided opposition party. One member wants us to act more quickly; one member wants us to act more slowly. In fact, we have done everything we can to support the collective bargaining process for these two parties.

Let me reiterate some of the steps we have taken. We started working with the parties early on, with mediation services, beyond a year ago. We then accelerated our efforts. After a request to appoint a special mediator, we appointed a special mediator. We reappointed a special mediator. We offered voluntary arbitration.

The parties simply cannot find a place where they can get a deal. They continue to hear my message, both privately and personally, that I believe the best deal is the one they negotiate together. However, we find ourselves at a place where, as a government, we need to act now, and that is the purpose of this motion: to make sure that if we are forced to begin debate on this legislation, we can do it in a timely way that will deliver for Canadians of all different backgrounds.