Debates of Nov. 23rd, 2018

Before the Clerk announced the results of the vote:

An Act to Provide for the Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Hon. members will notice that some members voted and then left the room, and that will be taken into account when the votes are tallied. They will not be counted.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #947

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I declare the motion carried.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. Earlier today some confusion was caused when the government House leader left her chair during a vote, apparently not aware of the rules. Today a number of NDP members left their seats during the vote, quite aware of the rules and upset because the super-closure motion that just passed disenfranchises them with respect to an important debate about the rights of workers in Canada and that—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Order. I am afraid that is debate. The hon. House leader did come to the Chair and mention that her vote was not to be counted when she did get up.

Postal Services Resumption and Continuation Act

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Minister of Employment]

moved that Bill C-89, An Act to provide for the resumption and continuation of postal services, be read the second time and referred to a committee of the whole.

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), I would like to table, in both official languages, a charter statement for an act to provide for the resumption and continuation of postal services.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate that this labour dispute has come to this point. I spoke at length yesterday about everything we did to try to help the parties arrive at a deal, and I want to reiterate that our government is committed to free and collective bargaining and the collective bargaining process. We know that a negotiated agreement—

[Some hon. members]

Shame, shame!

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Order.

Resuming debate, the hon. minister of employment.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is emotional, and I appreciate the emotion. I appreciate the discomfort many workers feel, but we do believe that negotiated agreements are always the best solution. In fact, why we believe that is because we believe that when two parties can negotiate together, it results in a strong collective agreement that actually builds and fosters positive labour relations in a corporation.

We ran on a commitment to restore fair and balanced labour laws and union management relations, and I remain committed to upholding—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Order. I am trying to hear what the minister has to say, but I am hearing chatter and shouting across. I want to remind hon. members—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Order. I did not point out any one person. It is the chatter going back and forth that is causing the disturbance. I would like to hear what the hon. minister has to say.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we were also elected to make life better for middle-class Canadians, including owners of small and medium-sized businesses and workers all across Canada. With this time of year being the busiest retail season, Canadians need to be able to count on Canada Post to deliver the goods Canadians and businesses need.

Let me tell the House about Maureen Lyons, the owner of Mo McQueen and Sons, in Winnipeg. She is a stay-at-home mom with four children and a health disability. Here is what she had to say about the labour disruption:

If by the end of the week, by some miracle, things could resume or at least the shopping public’s faith in the system of delivery could be restored, I think it would help a great deal.

We are as grassroots as it gets. I don't make a ton of money as it is. It is so frustrating. We're the little guys. And I'm not just a seller.... I'm also trying to find things for my own children for Christmas that I can't get.

The Minister of Public Services and Procurement and I have been in touch with the parties directly on numerous occasions to urge them to continue to work towards reaching agreements. Despite all the efforts I listed yesterday, the two parties remain unable to find common ground on a number of outstanding issues related to wages, job security and workload.

With more than 200 communities across the country directly impacted by the strikes, we cannot afford to wait any longer. I will repeat: Our government does not take back-to-work legislation lightly. This is the first time our government is using this tool, and we believe it should only be used as a last resort. That belief has not changed for me personally or for our government. However, having exhausted all other possibilities, we believe it is the only remaining option.

This is about protecting the public interest and avoiding further harm to Canadian businesses and communities, and indeed Canadians who rely on Canada Post. Older Canadians, persons with disabilities, low-income earners and Canadians living in rural, remote and northern areas who rely on physical mail delivery, including indigenous peoples in some of the most remote communities in our country, are disproportionately affected when their access to physical mail delivery is disrupted.

The cost of postal alternatives, such as courier companies, can be prohibitively high, especially in rural and remote communities. In some remote northern areas, there are no alternatives. Canadians in the north are twice as reliant on parcel delivery services as the rest of Canadians.

Stephanie Destree of The Silk Road Spice Merchant, in Calgary, says, “Sometimes we ship to more rural places, so we go with Canada Post. We are finding delays when we use Canada Post, and sometimes up to three weeks of delays.”

A Toronto Star reader sent the following letter to the editor:

While mail disruption is an inconvenience to many of us living in Canada, it is an impossible situation for those in remote fly-in communities in Northern Canada.

Unlike other Canadians who have options of private courier services, those living in these regions must rely on Canada Post for all of their deliveries.

Through a newly formed non-profit organization...I am personally involved in sending much-needed food to shelters and soup kitchens; warm clothing to the homeless, poor and elderly; school supplies and food to daycares and schools in both Nunavut and the Northwest Territories....

For many of these children, these will be the only gifts they receive this year.

The postal strike has played havoc with our efforts to get these gifts to the children in time for Christmas. Besides the time delays and uncertainty of delivery, there is an added expense of about $1,000 to upgrade our service level to Express Post in the hopes these parcels will receive faster service when the strike action rotates.

Weather is always a concern in the winter in getting parcels to the North in a timely manner but the strikes have made it an incredibly difficult and expensive challenge.

That was from Beverley Mitchell in Toronto.

Nearly nine million Canadians, about 30% of our population, live in rural and remote areas, where access to the Internet can be extremely limited. Today is Black Friday, and so many businesses depend on their sales today and through to the end of the holiday season to survive. This has real human impacts. Small business owners are our neighbours, and they are also significant employers in our country. We are looking at job losses and lower hours at a time of year when so many families are already over-extended.

Jim Danahy, CEO of Customer Lab, says:

We have Indigenous population in very small and sometimes isolated communities that you can only reach by water or by air. So, in those cases, the local economies can be hit quite significantly.

At the same time, our reputation as a reliable market for commerce and trade is at risk, because international partners are not able to ship mail and parcel shipments on to Canada Post. I spoke yesterday about small e-sellers whose razor-thin margins leave many of them unable to afford the higher cost of shipping through courier companies. In the event of a lengthy postal strike, many companies, particularly smaller e-commerce companies, may not make it through the season. Forty percent of online sales take place in the fourth quarter, which the strike is currently impacting.

Canadians expect us to act. We have done everything we could, and this is a last resort. That is why we are introducing this legislation, which I will take a few minutes to explain.

The legislation we are introducing today would order an immediate end to the worker stoppages and the resumption and continuation of postal services at noon EST on the day after the day on which it receives royal assent. The most recent collective agreements will be extended until new collective agreements are established.

To help the parties find common ground on outstanding issues, an impartial mediator-arbitrator will be appointed. The parties will have an opportunity to choose the mediator-arbitrator, and within 48 hours of coming into force of the bill, the parties will need to provide me with names of three persons to serve as the mediator-arbitrator. If the parties fail to propose the same person, one will be appointed from this list, taking into consideration advice from the chairperson of the Canada Industrial Relations Board. This is to ensure the impartiality of the individual who will be chosen.

The legislation would provide for the mediator-arbitrator to resolve all outstanding issues through mediation, or if mediation fails on particular issues, arbitrate them through an arbitration model of his or her choice based on guiding principles. The mediator-arbitrator will have seven days to mediate all outstanding issues between the parties, which can be extended to a maximum of 14 days if the parties consent. If the parties fail to reach agreements within the mediation period, the mediator-arbitrator must arbitrate all outstanding issues within 90 days of his or her appointment.

I will now talk about the principles that will guide the mediator-arbitrator's decisions. These have been crafted carefully to provide a balance to the mediator-arbitrator and take into consideration the concerns that we have heard throughout the negotiating process. They are: to ensure the health and safety of all employees; to ensure the fair treatment of temporary, part-time and other employees in non-standard employment as compared to full-time, permanent employees; to ensure the long-term financial sustainability of Canada Post; to create a culture of collaborative labour-management relations; and for high-quality service to be provided by Canada Post at a reasonable price to Canadians. The union and Canada Post can reach a voluntary agreement at any time before the mediator-arbitrator submits his or her final report to me, which would end the mediation-arbitration process.

I believe that we have taken the steps to ensure that everything possible has been done and is done through this proposed legislation to encourage the parties to reach agreement fairly and swiftly while in the meantime ensure services at Canada Post resume, preventing further harm. That is why I urge all of my hon. colleagues to vote in support of this legislation.

I reiterate that our government does not take this legislation lightly. We have worked hard to restore fairness and balance to the labour landscape in Canada since coming into office. Through Bill C-4, our government's first piece of legislation and our first official act in Parliament, we repealed two private members' bills that undermined unions; one that imposed excessive reporting requirements on unions, and a second that made it harder for workers to unionize. Since then, we have introduced legislation and programs that improve the lives of Canadian workers and strengthen the labour movement.

As I mentioned before, we did not intervene early, because we believe in the collective bargaining process. We believe that the collective bargaining process results in the best outcomes: strong agreements and a positive workplace culture. However, we also have a responsibility to Canadians and to the businesses that drive our economy, and when the consequences of a work stoppage become so great that they begin to result in serious and, if left unchecked, lasting harm, we have to act.

We will continue to support the parties through every means possible, as we have done from the very beginning. We strongly encourage them to reach agreements as soon as possible, and we will continue to provide the parties with the tools they need to do so.

As I said earlier, the best agreements are always the ones that parties arrive at themselves. This proposed legislation allows the parties to reach a voluntary agreement at any time before the mediator-arbitrator submits his or her final report to the minister, which would end the mediator-arbitrator process.

We are in no way legislating an agreement. This legislation is about ensuring the process exists to find one. The well-being of Canadians and the viability of many Canadian businesses depend on a speedy resolution. I urge everyone in this House to support this legislation so we can make that happen as quickly as possible. Canadians are counting on us.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, “the sky is falling, the sky is falling”. This is a rotating strike, not the end of the world. At this point, workers have grievances they have brought forth and the current government undermined every step of that by announcing ahead of time that it would intervene.

The minister is a woman who claims to be progressive. I would like to remind her that back in 1981 there was a full postal strike that lasted for 41 days without intervention from the government. After those 41 days, an agreement was reached that granted maternity leave for the first time in the federal public service union. I would ask the minister this. Does she truly believe that, if the government at the time had intervened and asked a mediator or an arbitrator to come in, that maternity leave that was non-existent in the whole public service would have been granted to the union?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I share the member's concern about using back-to-work legislation. However, I will remind him that seven different NDP premiers, on 15 different occasions, have used back-to-work legislation when they have not been able to resolve disputes between parties. In fact, some members of his own caucus have voted in favour of that back-to-work legislation, so I know that he understands that this is a very difficult decision for governments to take.

Having said that, as I said in my speech, there are many Canadians who are relying on us to restore Canada Post service in a prompt way. That does not just include small and medium-sized businesses and e-commerce businesses, that also includes Canadians in very vulnerable positions in rural and remote communities who have no other way to get the goods they rely on into their communities.

We will always support the collective bargaining process. We have done so throughout these negotiations. We are confident this legislation will allow the parties to continue to work toward a deal they arrive at together.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the International Labour Organization and the Supreme Court of Canada recognize the right to strike, which is inextricably tied to the right to negotiate working conditions. In fact, these organizations recognize that strikes cause economic hardship and that strikers are the first to suffer.

However, that is the price to pay to achieve a strong bargaining position in a negotiated collective agreement. That is the price to pay to maintain a minimum of economic and social cohesion. When the government passes back-to-work legislation under a gag order, such as this one, it puts at risk social peace for the economic benefit of the Amazons of this world.

I do not understand how a government that claims to be progressive can introduce such an anti-progressive law as this. How can it endorse this penny-wise, pound-foolish approach that will sacrifice social peace in the longer term? Shame on you.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Personally, I have nothing to be ashamed of. Before giving the floor to the minister, I would remind the hon. member to address his questions to the chair.

The Minister of Employment.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member opposite points out that the right to strike is protected by the charter. This union has been striking for five weeks. Prior to that, the parties were negotiating for over a year. We provided them with every tool possible. We started with a federal mediation service. A variety of different mediators of all different seniority levels helped them through the early conversations. There was still an impasse. I appointed a special mediator. I appointed a special mediator again. I have met with the parties. We have had conversations with the parties. We have worked very closely with the parties. I have been at their disposal to have conversations whenever they wanted to. We know that these parties are very far apart at this point. They have worked at the table, but have not reached a deal.

Canadians rely on a Canada Post service that is delivering for them. Whether it is Canadians in rural and remote communities who are relying on essential goods and services delivered by Canada Post or small businesses that may not see another year if they cannot make the money that they typically make in a Christmas season, these are people in our communities, people who are employers, people who rely on Canada Post.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

The hon. member for Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques on a point of order.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that when a question is asked the answer should actually be of a similar length, and I do believe the minister is actually repeating her speech, and at much longer pace than the member's question.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

That is normally the case in committee, but when it is open like this, it is as long as the question takes, and within reason. However, I would ask hon. members to keep it brief, because I notice there are quite a few people who want to ask questions.

Also, while I am giving directions, I would ask members to remember to place their questions through the Chair. I know it is an emotional topic, and people's emotions get out of hand sometimes and they start talking directly at each other, and that will cause nothing but problems.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Mississauga—Lakeshore.