House of Commons Hansard #349 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was affairs.

Topics

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC

Madam Speaker, I appreciate my colleague putting her finger on one of the other great difficulties and the lack of collaboration between governments in addressing not only health issues but mental health issues and the need to do a better job of coordinating services. If the money were available and actually spent, and not lapsed, perhaps we could do a better job for our veterans in the member's riding and across the country.

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

Jennifer O'Connell Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance (Youth Economic Opportunity), Lib.

Madam Speaker, I will be sharing my time today with the member for Fundy Royal.

There is something very important about veterans that needs to be stressed in this debate, and that is the character of each person who serves in the Canadian Armed Forces. While we find ourselves, over the next week, commemorating and remembering those who fought and sacrificed 100 years ago, in what was supposed to be the war to end all wars, we also keep in mind those men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces who have served since and given of themselves that we might have a more peaceful and prosperous existence here.

The men and women who serve in uniform in the 21st century are not the same as those of earlier times. Today they are more diverse than ever before. One thing they have in common is their selfless dedication to serve Canada. They put their safety and their lives on the line to defend us, our security and our freedom. Every one of the brave men and women who serves in the Canadian Armed Forces has a unique experience. Each has his or her own abilities, skills, and ambitions. Each has a story to tell.

When CAF members release from service, they deserve support to make the transition and successfully re-establish in post-service life. After release from the military, veterans and their families face their own unique circumstances and have unique individual needs. We understand those needs and the importance of supporting our veterans and their families in their post-service lives. That is why we have taken action by investing in and improving these services and benefits, unlike the previous Conservative government, which closed offices, cut staff and balanced budgets on the backs of veterans and their families.

Here is what we have done so far.

Last April 1, a suite of new and enhanced benefits and programs became available to CAF members and veterans who completed basic training and were released from the forces on or after April 1, 2006. There are also programs for spouses, common-law partners and survivors of veterans.

Next April 1, the government will fulfill its promise to provide a pension for life as an option for veterans who release from the Canadian Armed Forces, delivering on what many veterans have been asking for. While these benefits and programs come into force at different times, they represent two parts of a single integrated suite of benefits that is flexible enough to meet the needs of each individual veteran.

The pension for life option will comprise two main parts. First is tax-free compensation in recognition of a veteran's pain and suffering from a service-related illness or injury. Additional compensation will be provided to those veterans who experience barriers to establishing life after service because of a service-related permanent and severe impairment. Some veterans who have already received a disability award for their service-related impairment will be eligible for an additional monthly amount through the pension for life. Their eligibility for both benefits will be assessed on an individual basis.

The second main part is income replacement for those whose service-related impairment prevents them from finding meaningful employment. Veterans who receive physical, vocational or psychosocial rehabilitation services will receive a monthly benefit equal to 90% of their military salary at time of release. It will be indexed annually for inflation, with a guaranteed minimum of $48,600 per year. They will receive this for as long as they need it, for life. It is available to spouses in some circumstances. Alternatively, a veteran can choose a single lump-sum payment, should a veteran decide that this is the best option to meet his or her needs. Again, it depends on the individual's situation and needs.

These changes will improve veterans' lives post-service but will also improve the new veterans charter, a document the previous government failed to improve during its 10 years in office. As with the well-being supports already in place, the number of Canadian Armed Forces members and veterans who apply for these benefits for service-related impairments is difficult to predict. We keep in mind that while Veterans Affairs Canada serves more than 200,000 veterans and their families and their survivors, the total number of veterans is more than 600,000 across the country, and that number does not include the number of actively serving members of the Canadian Armed Forces who will someday be veterans, regardless of whether they need the assistance of Veterans Affairs Canada.

Every year, the Department of Veterans Affairs estimates the amount of funding needed to meet the demand for each program. Veterans Affairs Canada must ensure that it can provide for all the veterans and families who may be entitled to benefits, whether it be the disability award, the pain and suffering compensation that will come with the pension for life this April, or the education and training benefit for veterans with more than six years of service.

However, the amount of funding required depends on the number of veterans who come forward to claim benefits and services. Veterans Affairs Canada must ensure that funding is available for them, no matter the number who come forward. Every veteran who applies for well-being support is assessed individually, according to their unique needs and situation. Similarly, every Canadian Armed Forces member or veteran who applies for the pension for life will be evaluated individually.

Veterans Affairs Canada works with veterans and their families to develop individualized plans that will meet their unique needs. In addition to the pain and suffering compensation and income replacement, the plan could include a caregiver benefit, career transition counselling, funding for education, training and professional development, vocational rehabilitation, assistance with establishment in post-service communities, and funding for emergency situations and more.

This new veteran-centric approach provides an integrated suite of benefits, programs and services that complement and reinforce each other. This flexibility will help lead to the best outcome and continued well-being for veterans and their families. Every member, veteran and family who is eligible will receive all the benefits and services they are entitled to. No eligible veteran or family member will go without.

It is for that reason that we are already accomplishing what this motion sets out to do. Every year, funds not used in one of the quasi-statutory programs run through Veterans Affairs are left in the central fund to be used again the next year to ensure access to these programs.

We know there is more to do when it comes to reducing wait times for decisions, but we also know that changing how we account for that money will not solve everything. Instead, we have invested $42 million to enhance our capacity to make these decisions and are working on innovative solutions like automating certain processes to simplify decision-making.

After 10 years of inaction, this is the work veterans are asking us to do, and we are delivering. It is a long and not always easy road, but we are committed to the hard work necessary to guarantee the emotional, physical and financial well-being of our ill and injured veterans and their families.

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Cheryl Hardcastle NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague from across the way for sharing with us how she perceives that the government being committed to the well-being of veterans.

As the proud member of Parliament for the riding of Windsor—Tecumseh, I want to point out that my riding has Branch 12 of the Royal Canadian Legion, Branch 143, Branch 255, Branch 261 and Branch 594, as well as the North Wall Riders, who are all committed to the well-being of veterans. They know full well what happens when spending is lapsed. They understand that when a department does not spend all of its budget on veterans, they are the ones losing out and their families are carrying the burden.

We know there should never be $372 million in unspent money. Lapsed spending is hard for hard-working Canadians to understand, who have heard the government pledge in campaign season that it was going to address—

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

I have to allow time for another question and for the person to answer. When we are making interventions, they should be done within a minute.

The hon. parliamentary secretary.

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

November 5th, 2018 / 4:15 p.m.

Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance (Youth Economic Opportunity), Lib.

Jennifer O'Connell

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the hon. member highlighting the work in her riding that many legions and volunteers are doing to support veterans

As I stated in my speech, the issue remains that when it comes to making the funds available for veterans, that is done based on estimates. The government and Veterans Affairs are not able to predetermine which eligible members are going to seek assistance from Veterans Affairs year over year. Essentially, Veterans Affairs already has a system in place to ensure that unspent funds are rolled into programs for veterans so they can access them when needed.

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Madam Speaker, I listened to my friend's comments with interest, but I think she might be missing the point, because this is not a new phenomenon. This happened under the Harper government, and when in opposition, the Liberals pointed out how wrong it was.

This has continued under the Liberal government, year after to year. For Liberals to say they do not know how much they are going to spend and this is why the lapses happen is to ignore the fact that this has become a pattern of behaviour under Veterans Affairs.

This would be bad enough on its own, but it comes in addition to the Prime Minister saying that veterans are asking for too much and for more than government can afford. Clearly the government can afford it, because it ends up with extra money at the end of every single year to the tune of $372 million.

If my friend thinks this is a problem, which I hope she does, will the Liberals support this motion that would make the lives of veterans better?

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance (Youth Economic Opportunity), Lib.

Jennifer O'Connell

Madam Speaker, I am glad my hon. colleague was listening, because we have said we are doing exactly what this motion intends to do, which is to ensure that funds are there and that if they are not used in one year, we move them forward into future years so that the funds are available should veterans come forward and need the support then.

Moreover, that, our government has invested $10 billion in addition to that. It is nice that the NDP members like to talk about supporting veterans, but they were the ones with the same failed economic plan as the Conservatives, which would have continued cuts on the backs of veterans for the sake of balancing the budget at all costs. They cannot speak out of both sides of their mouth. Either they are going to support veterans or they were going to balance the budget at all costs.

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Alaina Lockhart Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Tourism, Official Languages and La Francophonie, Lib.

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. colleague for his efforts to raise awareness of the Government of Canada's commitment to providing the services our veterans need to transition successfully from active duty to civilian life.

The time that I spent serving with the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs was among the most meaningful time I have spent working since coming to Parliament. I acknowledge that there is still much work to be done to make sure that we reach the most vulnerable among our veterans. However, I must say that it has been amazing to watch our government respond to the testimony that I heard directly from veterans, and to witness the value of consulting, listening and taking action.

While I appreciate the motion brought forward today by my hon. colleague, I think it is important to note that the Government of Canada already ensures that money for veterans programming is always available for veterans. The reality is that what are technically termed as “lapsed funds” are funds that are returned to the consolidated revenue fund, the fund that is used to fund veterans programming year over year. This is truly an accounting term and does not reflect or have an impact on the level of service or benefits available for our veterans, which is what our government is focused on, namely, on providing those services and supports that our veterans need. In my opinion, this is where we need to remain focused, making sure that veterans have the services they need to access them in a timely manner. That is what I heard in committee, and it is what I hear in my constituency office.

The good news is that even more veterans and their families are reaching out to access services and benefits. In fact, the number of veterans coming forward has increased by 31% since we formed government. Veterans and their families are taking advantage of programs, such as disability benefits, and education and training programs, as well as financial benefits. Last year alone that amounted to $4.4 billion spent directly on veterans and their families, $1 billion more than at the peak of the funding by Conservative governments.

I want to assure this House and all Canadians that whether 10 veterans or 10,000 veterans come forward, they will receive the benefits they need. The money will be available.

I also want to acknowledge that there is still more to do when it comes to reducing wait times. That should be our focus, and it is. Our government is investing $42 million to tackle exactly that. We are preparing to deliver service as the new programs announced over the last three years roll out and more veterans step forward to receive them. This investment is targeted at eliminating the backlog of applications over 16 weeks.

Despite the misinformation that I often hear in social media and coffee shops around the country, since 2016 our government has investment $10 billion in new resources to improve benefits for veterans and their families. We have introduced and supported new programs to help the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces return to the life they want to live after their military careers are over. If we invested nothing in veterans, like the previous government did, I could understand the additional concerns around funds appearing to leave veterans programming. However, that is just not the case.

While the debate continues about the accounting term referred to as “lapsed funding” and the many different services and benefits of Veterans Affairs Canada, I would like to take the conversation back to those who are at the heart of this discussion, our men and women in uniform, those who put their own lives and liberty on the line for us every single day. I would like to take a moment to recognize them, especially today, the first day of Veterans Week.

I am sure that all members of the House would agree that the service and the achievements of our veterans, their fallen comrades, and those who currently serve with the Canadian Armed Forces have been the foundation of our country. Those achievements, that service and the sacrifices they have made, have made Canada the land of peace, freedom and equality it is today. All of us owe a tremendous debt to those who have served in times of conflict and peace. lt is why we place such an emphasis on remembrance, not only now during Veterans Week and on Remembrance Day, but throughout the year.

Our government is committed to commemorating our men and women in uniform, the service of those who have made the ultimate sacrifice for our country, and honouring those who continue to serve today. That is the core of Veterans Affairs Canada's mandate. Through the Canada remembers program, we pay tribute to our veterans through memorials and events, providing educational resources and public information.

My colleague spoke to the many aspects of the well-being of veterans and their successful transition. One of those aspects is pride in their legacy. We are committed to ensuring that the stories of our veterans and their families live on.

This year, 2018, is a special year as we mark many important anniversaries: the 100th anniversary of the signing of the armistice that ended the First World War; the 65th anniversary of the Korean War armistice; the 75th anniversary of the invasion of Sicily and the beginning of the Italian campaign during the Second World War, in which my grandfather served; and the 10th anniversary of National Peacekeepers' Day.

The First World War was a defining moment in our country's history as a nation. We came together for a common cause and stood up to defend freedom, but it was at a great cost. Over 650,000 of our men and women served in uniform, with more than 66,000 giving their lives and another 172,000 being wounded.

This year, Veterans Affairs Canada will help Canadians honour this very important anniversary, both here and abroad. Canadians and Newfoundlanders played a critical role during that time, so much so that the time between the Battle of Amiens in August 1918 and the end of the war became known as Canada's Hundred Days.

Veterans Affairs works hard to encourage public recognition and awareness of the service and sacrifices of Canadian veterans and the fallen. Remembering all that they have done during war, military conflict and peace helps us to better understand our nation's history and, in fact, its future.

Fortunately, most of our youth have not known war or had to experience it first-hand. Our younger generations are able to grow up in peace and security, thanks to the contributions and sacrifices of our veterans and their fallen comrades. This is why it is so moving to see our youth taking an active role in remembrance and doing their part to ensure the legacy lives on.

Throughout the year, organizations and people across Canada and abroad honour veterans and current members of the Canadian Armed Forces. They do this through ceremonies, assemblies, plaque unveilings, vigils and many other tributes and commemorative activities. ln my home town of Sussex in New Brunswick, a small committee ensures that banners honouring local veterans span from one end of Main Street to the other throughout the month of November.

lt is through those actions that we, as Canadians, say to current and former members of the armed forces, “Thank you for your service, thank you for your dedication and thank you for your sacrifice.” However, we need to say more than “thank you”. When the men and women who defend our country transition into life after service, they value a continued link to their comrades and to the veteran community.

Those are just two of the reasons behind the decision to restore a card recognizing veterans' service. However, the main reason is that CAF members and veterans have been asking for it. I heard directly from many veterans while serving on committee and they were not happy that those cards were discontinued. Our government responded.

Veterans Affairs and the Department of National Defence recently announced their joint initiative to reintroduce a veteran's service card. The card will be available to any former member of the Canadian Armed Forces who completed basic training and has been honourably released. The veteran's service card is more than just a piece of plastic in a veteran's wallet. lt is a tangible symbol of service to our country. Because it does not expire, the card encourages a lasting affiliation with the armed forces.

As the Minister of National Defence noted at the launch, current CAF members can feel confident knowing that although their military service might come to an end, their identity as a member will always endure and Canadians will always remember their service.

This government has made a commitment to improve the lives of members and veterans of the Canadian Armed Forces, not just after release but throughout their entire military career, from recruitment to retirement and beyond. Over the past three years, we have taken a number of measures to do that. We have invested nearly $10 billion dollars since 2016 in increased benefits and enhanced services for veterans and their families, and yes, part way through each year the department goes back to Treasury Board to request supplementary funds to ensure that no veteran goes without any of the critical programs on which he or she relies. Because these are generous forecasts, they often result in funds returning to the consolidated fund at the end of the fiscal year, the very fund that will ensure that no matter how many veterans and family members apply for benefits and services, those eligible will receive them. Let us not get caught up in the technicalities of accounting.

Let us continue to honour and commemorate our veterans' achievements, courage and sacrifice and let us remain focused and committed to the well-being of veterans and their families.

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Madam Speaker, the parliamentary secretary said “let us not get caught up in the technicalities”, and I do not want to get weighed down there either. The government is patting itself on the back, saying how great it is serving our veterans. The reality is that veterans waiting for their disability benefits applications to be decided on is getting longer and longer. The Liberals can say as much as they want about how much they are spending. It sounds great, but if veterans cannot access services or get the benefits, it does not matter.

The government needs to hire the case workers and staff that were fired under the Conservatives. It has hired a few of them, but not the full amount. The Prime Minister promised that there would be no more lapsed spending. Maybe the member could reply to that.

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Tourism, Official Languages and La Francophonie, Lib.

Alaina Lockhart

First, Madam Speaker, I would like to remind my colleague, as I mentioned in my speech, that the Government of Canada is already putting those funds into a consolidated fund that can be used year after year. Second, we will be supporting the motion.

I want to also recognize that there is more work to do, but our government has shown that commitment with the commitment of $42 million toward service delivery. We have reopened nine veterans' offices closed by the Conservatives. We have hired 470 front-line workers back, including 260 caseworkers. Our outreach to veterans in the new programs that have been introduced have contributed to 31% more veterans coming forward for services.

It is a new day for veterans. We are committed to working with them to ensure they do have what they need to successfully transition to civilian life.

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil, ON

Madam Speaker, in a recent Order Paper question, it was shown that since 2016, the government spent almost $40 million fighting veterans in court. This in spite of the fact that the Prime Minister made a promise, as he stood in Belleville with his hand over his heart, with veterans and many members of his caucus as a backdrop, that veterans should never have to fight their government in court.

The Order Paper question is clear. During the time the Liberal government has been in power, for a two year period from 2016 to 2018, it spent close to $40 million fighting veterans in court.

Does the hon. member think this is a good issue to be spending money on when a promise was made by the Prime Minister that no veterans should have to fight their government in court?

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Tourism, Official Languages and La Francophonie, Lib.

Alaina Lockhart

Madam Speaker, I want to reiterate that our government is committed to providing veterans and their families with the care and support they need, and we have proven that.

We have delivered a pension for life. We have reopened nine offices. We have hired 270 new staff. We have put forward a joint suicide prevention strategy, created a veterans emergency fund, invested in new career transition services, created education and training benefits, expanded the medical tax credit for psychiatric service dogs and established a centre of excellence for PTSD research.

The needs of our veterans are changing and our government is responding. We are listening to veterans and providing the services they require.

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Madam Speaker, I think I heard the parliamentary secretary say her government would be supporting today's motion, which is good.

I have a very specific question. The government has not yet met 12 of the 24 service standards it set for itself. If it is in fact following the spirit and the letter of this motion to allocate those funds, when does the government expect to meet the 24 standards it set for itself with respect to meeting the needs of veterans?

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Tourism, Official Languages and La Francophonie, Lib.

Alaina Lockhart

Madam Speaker, I also cite for the other member on the other side who mentioned that in the spirit of transparency, we have set those service standards. As I mentioned, we have made an investment of $42 million toward service delivery. We will continue working to ensure that we meet those service delivery standards.

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Courtenay—Alberni, The Environment; the hon. member for Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, International Trade; and the hon. member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, Employment.

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Madam Speaker, I will be splitting my time with my good friend from Elmwood—Transcona this afternoon.

I would like to give proper credit and due to my friend from Courtenay—Alberni who followed John Rafferty, the first one to pursue this question. John was an NDP MP for Thunder Bay—Rainy River. He was able to ask this specific question, an important technique we have here as parliamentarians, to essentially to follow the money. We see the promises.

Governments are self-congratulatory and self-promoting. When they make an announcement of a certain amount of money going toward a certain cause, they like to talk about it. Many Canadians are left with a feeling that the money will actually be spent. Not always. When it comes to veterans, not ever. It is what we have now discovered is lapsed spending. Sometimes lapsed spending can be just almost a rounding error. A large department spending a lot of money can be off by less than half a per cent and money one way or the other needs to be lapsed back into the government.

When we look at Veterans Affairs in particular, we start to see a pattern where year after year it has a large amount of lapsed spending. I will quote the Prime Minister, which is always helpful to do in debates like this. When he was campaigning for the job of Prime Minister in 2015 in August, he said, “They” meaning the Conservatives, “left unspent more than $1 billion that Parliament allocated for veteran support. Canadians know that this is wrong.” Canadians knew this is wrong and they kicked the Conservatives out of office.

It almost becomes cynical when the government year after year allocates a certain amount of money without any intention of spending it. Then at the end of the year, it says that lo and behold, it has some extra money which it can shuffle out the door to something else and announce money once, or twice or three times and leave Canadians with the impression that the job is being done.

However, veterans are coming forward year after year, saying they phoned the hotline to look for those services they were promised to deal with incredibly serious things. People coming back from theatre of war face physical challenges. There are enormous mental and spiritual costs to our veterans. They phone the hotline and when they eventually get through, after the labyrinth of things that can sometimes take weeks, they are told to wait weeks or months more. We have to understand that when the funding is not there, when there are not the workers available to help that veteran out and delays are caused, that whatever difficulty the veteran is dealing with gets worse, be it physical, be it mental, be it spiritual, and the costs can be extreme.

In my riding in northwestern B.C., I will be attending Remembrance Day ceremonies this year in Kitimat with Branch 250 in Terrace with my friends of Branch 13. The stories we get from our veterans, particularly from the more recently returning veterans from the Afghan mission and from some other deployments, are more than heartbreaking. It is right to be broken and to feel the pain of what these veterans have gone through. It is infuriating when we find out, because of that lack of funding or those delays, that pain, which is devastating in its initial form, becomes so much worse. Veterans end up not fighting one war but two. The first one is the engagement that we asked them to undertake on our behalf. I do not think there is anything more sacred or more serious than the vote we take in Parliament for the deployment of our troops overseas and put them in harm's way. The second battle they go into is often with their government, not for anything extra, not for anything special but simply what they were promised.

My friend from Courtenay—Alberni has revealed to us the lapsed spending just since the Liberals came to office, money that was promised to be spent but was not spent. It now totals $372 million. That is pretty terrible. However, we also heard the Prime Minister say this ast year to a wounded vet who lost a leg in Afghanistan. He was asking for the services he and and his comrades were promised. The Prime Minister of Canada, talking about court cases the government was continuing to fight, said, “Why are we still fighting certain veterans groups in court? Because they're asking for more than we are able to give right now.” The argument of why the government was taking veterans groups to court, fighting them there and spending money there, was because there was insufficient money to provide for those veterans and their comrades the services they were promised. That is brutal in and of itself. It means the government was not allocating enough money to meet the service commitment it has made to our veterans.

However, then we found out that the statement was not even true. There was money that was allocated that was not being spent, year after year, in a cynical pattern. They wonder why a prime minister would say this to a wounded vet who is standing in front of him at a town hall. Town halls are good and it is good for the Prime Minister to be out, but then to turn to a wounded vet who is missing a leg and say that those people are asking for too much, that they were asking for “more than we can afford”, was his specific comment.

Meanwhile, we knew in that year when he was talking, money was being returned back to Ottawa that had been promised to veterans. Clearly, that was not true. That the Prime Minister was accusing the Conservatives of using that same tactic, and saying how wrong that was and how Canadians disagreed with them, and campaigning that he would be different and change it, was infuriating. The Conservatives came in saying they were going to do better for our vets, and they did not. The Liberals came in saying they were going to do better for our vets, and are not.

We see now today, finally just in the last five minutes after four hours of debate, the Liberals got the note that the pressure had been sufficiently building. We have been hearing about it in my offices in Skeena in the northwest of B.C. and I am sure Liberals have as well. People are asking how can they not support this motion. It simply says to spend the money they promised for veterans services, and if they do not, then to not send the money back to the treasury but to hold the money and start to change the way they are delivering programs.

As I just pointed out for my Liberal colleague, the government set 24 standards and it is meeting 12 of them. One would suspect that maybe a lack of resources is the problem, the reason for not meeting the other 12. These are the standards that the government set for itself and it is meeting half of them. We think that if it is resources, is there something we can do about that? We can then actually put some true meaning to the words we say at the beginning of Remembrance Week that we seek to honour our veterans, we seek to serve them, we seek to give them a bit back after they have given so much to this country.

The words are important. I do not know about my colleagues, but I find the Remembrance Day speeches that I do to be some of the most difficult because they are often in front of schools. We are often talking to young people who, for the vast majority, thank God, have no experience with war whatsoever. Now there is a growing group of young Canadians who are coming from conflict zones. We speak to them on Remembrance Day and it has a significant meaning. However, to many Canadian children, thankfully they have no experience, nor do their parents or in many cases their grandparents have any experience at war.

To try to talk about Remembrance Day, 100 years after the ending of the First World War for example, is to try to bridge a gap, so we use big words: we honour; we remember; lest we forget. We make a commitment, year after year on the 11th month, the 11th day at the 11th hour, to each other as Canadians, recognizing not just the sacrifices of the past but the sacrifices of today. There is no real compensation we can give these veterans. There is no amount of money for the damage and the hurt they have gone through because perpetrating a war is unbelievably difficult, painful and excruciating in many cases, so we do not celebrate that. We do not celebrate war; we commemorate, we honour the sacrifices made.

One of the small things we here in Parliament can do is try to keep our promises. We in opposition are not here just to oppose a government that is failing on whatever services we deem to be necessary, but to also propose, as my friend from Courtenay—Alberni did, a solution to a problem that has been systemic year after year, that Veterans Affairs is unable, or worse unwilling, to get the money out the door.

If all veterans were receiving the services they were promised and there was just too much money being allocated, that would be one problem. That is a good problem to have, but that is not the problem we have in this country. All of us in our offices have had veterans come in and say to us that this is what was promised, that these are the services they were expecting and that with the delays, the services are not coming to meet that promise.

Therefore, on this Remembrance Day and in this Remembrance Week, let us know that we are doing something right together. Let us know that we are going to make things better together, because that is what they did for us. They did something together that was so important that we respect and we honour. Let us back up those words with actions. Let us support this motion and make veterans as proud of us, a little bit, as we are of them.

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. Even though he had a second shot at it, he did very well. There is no question about that. I am glad he touched on a number of issues that are extremely important to veterans.

We reopened nine offices and made commitments to veterans with the education benefit and the pension for life. We have really invested where we need to, and we are going to continue to do so. That is why we are going to vote in favour of this motion, because it is a very important motion and we know it is the right thing to do.

The only question I have is this. During the last election in 2015, the leader of the NDP said he was going to have a balanced budget. What is their leader saying now for the election next year? Is it going to be balanced budget? If it is, then there will be major cuts, and if there are, I would like my colleague to share those with us now.

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Madam Speaker, as tempted as I am to reveal the New Democrat's platform for the 2019 election to everyone here today, that would require us to have that platform right now. Similarly, no other party now knows what they will be offering Canadians come the next election.

It is always tempting to take shots. I have taken my fair share. If we can agree to the principle that we have here today, that the money that Veterans Affairs is unable, unwilling, or whatever the case may be, to get out the door to our veterans can no longer serve as an excuse for the department somehow clawing back that money, we can change the behaviour. We can only change the behaviour if we change the rules. One of the rules that we aim to change here today is to allow no more lapsed spending and no more lack of service provision to create extra money at the end of the year. That is the way it is done. If we change that rule, we can change the lives of veterans. That is what we all want to do. We want a veteran to pick up the phone or to go into one of those offices and receive the services we promised them. That seems like a worthwhile cause. We can all go to our veterans ceremonies, not just on November 11, but every day of the year and say that we did something together. I think that is all that vets and their families are looking for.

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Madam Speaker, I listened to what my colleague had to say, particularly in response to the last question. I agree with him that if there is one area we can commit ourselves to acting on, it is making sure that we properly fund and take care of our veterans.

However, let us not forget the fact that when we talk about a budget, we do budgeting in a fiscally responsible way. When we spend 93% of that budget, we can say that we have done a pretty good job on the budget. However, if we go over that and end up spending 105% of the amount budgeted, it is arguable that we failed at creating a good, fiscally responsible budget.

In the same vein as the previous question asked about the NDP's commitment to balancing the budget in 2015, would the hon. member agree or disagree that it would have been absolutely necessary to spend every single pot of money that had been allocated in the budgeting process? Is that how they were going to balance the budget with the platform they had presented in 2015?

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Madam Speaker, that is interesting coming from the party that said it would have small deficits for a short period of time. It is interesting because it is also coming from a party that just spent $4.5 billion on a 65-year-old pipeline, albeit I forget where that promise was in their platform. I will look for the documentation. Maybe it was there, but I suspect it was not. If my friend would like to go through the 2015 election cycle again and check promises again, fine.

All we are looking to do here today is something positive. I would remind my Liberal friends that we are doing something together. Is that not nice? Does that not feel good? Would it not feel good if we could go and look veterans in the eyes and say we are not going to have this lapsed spending circus anymore? We are not going to do this offensive practice of budgeting this much—wink, wink, nod, nod, and “Don't worry, we're going to claw a whole bunch of it back”. That is what Veterans Affairs has been doing for over a decade. We are going to stop it, together.

As for cheap shots trying to re-run the last election, I will let them do that. What I want to do is to focus on moving this thing forward, as my friend from Courtenay—Alberni has done today. Is that not a nice thing? Let us all celebrate that.

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise on this first day of Veterans' Week to speak to a motion that is exactly about trying to do more for Canada's veterans and trying to ensure that they get the services they need when they need them.

That is something we want to see done all year long, not just around Remembrance Day. One of the important elements of Remembrance Day is that it is an occasion for us to reflect on the horrors and sacrifices of war; to try, as best we can, especially those of us who have not participated, to understand what goes into that; and to renew our commitment to making peace in the world and building peace in the world. We should also renew our commitment to helping those who have been in conflict zones and have come back, whose lives and family members' lives are affected by that experience and the fallout from it.

That is why this is a very timely motion. It is not because it has to do with the services and that this is important to talk about around this time of year. It is important all year long. This is the time of year when we reflect and renew our commitment to doing better.

I am very proud to come from northeast Winnipeg, where there is a strong tradition of remembrance at our three legions: the Transcona Legion Branch 7, which is my home legion; the Elmwood Legion Branch 9; and the Prince Edward Legion 81. Beyond the traditional remembrance that has gone on in northeast Winnipeg, lately we have also been participating very heavily in organizing “No Stone Left Alone” ceremonies, thanks to the leadership of some members in our community, such as George McCall, with the Elmwood Legion, and Peter Martin, from the Transcona Legion. These are ceremonies that bring school-aged children to cemeteries where veterans are buried to lay poppies at gravesites. It is done to try to establish a connection between our youth and that memory, because as generations pass from the great wars, that connection gets harder and harder to maintain.

That is why we need to double down on our efforts and remember how horrible it is for young people, to be sure, and for all of us, when we get involved in very large conflicts, such as the First and Second World Wars. There is some great work going on in northeast Winnipeg to that effect.

It helps to set some of the context for today's motion. If we recall, in the last Parliament, the government's relationship with veterans was seriously strained. We all remember when the then Minister of Veterans Affairs insulted a group of veterans who had come to meet with him and essentially kicked them out of his office.

That was just the tip of the iceberg. That was a sign of disrespect, but when it came to policy, the former government was closing offices and letting staff go. It also decided to take on veterans in court. The Equitas Society said that there was a special covenant between the government and its veterans. The government of the day decided to take the position that this was not, in fact, the case and spent a lot of money fighting veterans in court. We also heard about the $1.1 billion in lapsed funding over the tenure of that government.

It was a campaign issue. It was a campaign issue in a way that, it is fair to say, veterans issues had not been before, not because it had not been discussed but because veterans groups were politically mobilized in a way the veterans community traditionally had not been, in part because they felt so mistreated by that particular government.

We saw the Liberals take up the issue on the campaign trail. With respect to the lapsed funding of the previous government, we heard the Prime Minister say on the campaign trail, “They left unspent more than $1 billion that Parliament allocated for veteran support. Canadians know that this is wrong.” That was something the Prime Minister said at the time he was running for the job.

He also said in the Liberal platform document that the Liberal plan would “ensure that no veteran has to fight the government for the support and compensation they have earned”, referring to the Equitas lawsuit. That is on page 49 of the Liberal platform, a memory perhaps some Liberals in the House have suppressed, because it is accompanied by a photo of the member for Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill.

The Liberals in government have been quite different from the Liberals on the campaign trail. Despite the Prime Minister saying that lapsed funding was something that was wrong, that needed to be addressed and that the department needed to work to ensure the money was spent properly, the Liberals have already lapsed $372 million in just three years.

Liberals are failing to meet 12 out of 24 self-identified service targets. For instance, only 43% of veterans who apply for disability benefits are hearing back within 16 weeks. Only 56% of veterans who apply for the earnings loss benefit hear back within the four weeks that has been set as a reasonable target. Forty-five per cent of veterans applying for the long-term care program are hearing back within 10 weeks and the rest hear back within a longer time period. Of course, we also know that the government, far from terminating the court battle against veterans, decided to keep it up after what was a very explicit promise to drop it. That is what the quote in the platform was about: that veterans should not have to fight the government to receive their benefits, but alas, here we are and that lawsuit continues and veterans are having to continue to fight the government in court.

What we are making today is quite a modest proposal to say that we know veterans are not being served in a way everybody in this House and in Canada would like them to be served, so we are trying to be constructive. We are trying to find a solution to enhance that service. Because of the $1.1 billion that lapsed under the Conservatives and the $327 million that has lapsed so far under the Liberals, we know there is reliably more money to spend within the existing Veterans Affairs envelope. We should be doing a better job of making sure that the money gets spent for the purposes intended, which is to serve veterans better.

When veterans are calling to receive information about how to apply for their benefits and are having to wait hours on the phone, we know it is because there are not enough people to answer the phone. The answer to that is to hire and train more people to do that work. That is not a great mystery, or I certainly hope it is not a great mystery to anybody in the House. If the question is where the money would come from or how we would find the money to do this, we know that in the last two years over $140 million has lapsed. A lot of people can be hired for that amount to answer a phone, listen compassionately and provide good advice on what those veterans need to do and where they need to go to access those services.

When we see tens of millions of dollars unspent year after year, it is not a quibble about accounting practices, which is what we have heard from the government today. I thank the government for its respect of our knowledge of good accounting, but I want it to know that this is not just our excellent accounting skills. It is not just a little quibble about how we label things. This is about the fact that there are not enough people to answer the phone to give the right advice to veterans who need to access services when we have the money to be able to hire and train those people, because we know each year tens of millions of dollars are going unspent.

My colleague from Courtenay—Alberni has quite rightly said that if we know the money is not going to be accessed and we know the services are not going to be accessed, and we have a long track record now of knowing that the money is not spent, then we should use it to hire staff to enable veterans to better access those services. That just makes sense.

It has been interesting to hear the debate today. It seems we are coming to a consensus that this is something everybody is going to support. I am very glad to hear it because it makes a lot of sense. Let us do this. Let us move forward. Let us try to minimize some of the cheap shots that have been going on today. This is a common sense idea. We know we can do better for Canada's veterans, and it is time we started doing it.

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Madam Speaker, earlier on I asked a question of a different NDP colleague. I do not for a second question that the NDP is extremely worried and feeling compassionate about the role that we play as parliamentarians in delivering for our veterans. However, I did ask a question earlier about why it was that the NDP voted against the budget implementation act, which had the lifetime pension for veterans in it. The response I got was that there was a whole bunch of stuff in the budget and New Democrats had to vote against it because of all the other stuff.

I have the same question for the hon. member. Why was it that the NDP voted against that budget implementation act? If his answer is the same as his colleague's, could he at least reference a time when he stood up in the House or otherwise made it publicly known that he was going to vote against it but was displeased with the fact that he could not vote against this particular item in the budget separately?

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5 p.m.

NDP

Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Madam Speaker, I would encourage the member to pay more attention to the proceedings of the House. If he did, what he would realize is that the NDP has been up on its feet raising points of order trying to divide sections of these large omnibus budget bills into separate votes for exactly that purpose.

It is why New Democrats do not believe in omnibus legislation in the first place. It is why we were disappointed when the Liberals, who in the last Parliament said they did not believe in omnibus legislation, decided to use it as a tool in this Parliament. It is why we are going to continue getting up on our feet demanding separate votes. Beyond separate votes on different provisions within budget implementation legislation, we want them divided so that we can actually have the appropriate amount of time to study those initiatives, study them in detail in the appropriate place, at committee, and then have a separate vote on them.

I am on my feet now. I have been on my feet before. New Democrats have been on their feet many times and will continue to call for those separate votes. I encourage the member to support us in that endeavour.

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5 p.m.

NDP

Anne Minh-Thu Quach NDP Salaberry—Suroît, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. I am pleased to participate in today's debate on the sums allocated.

Hundreds of millions of dollars are sitting in Veterans Affairs Canada's coffers, yet branches like Branch 146 in Beauharnois say that, when they call Veterans Affairs Canada, they have to wait a long time for someone to take their call and answer their questions.

As everyone knows, $372 million has been languishing in those coffers for the past three years. Hundreds of people could be hired to answer veterans' questions. Veterans deserve those services.

I think it is time for the government to invest and spend that money. The Conservatives cut 1,000 jobs, and the Liberals say they rehired 475 employees. That means more than half have yet to be rehired to ensure that the people who risked their lives in battle get the services and respect they deserve.

Opposition Motion—Service Standards for VeteransBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5 p.m.

NDP

Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Madam Speaker, every now and then, my constituents tell me that, when we are debating issues in the House, it can be hard for them because we are talking about such huge sums of money. We talk about hundreds of millions of dollars, we talk about $4 billion.

I think the purpose of today's motion is really simple. We know that when veterans call to get the services they are entitled to, nobody picks up the phone.

We also know that, from one year to the next, a lot of money just sits in government coffers. We simply want that money to be spent in such a way that, when veterans call, someone is there to listen to them and give them important advice.