Debates of Nov. 6th, 2018

Bill C-86—Time Allocation Motion

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we have been really clear, both before we formed government and now in government, that it is important that budget implementation acts implement what has been in the budgets that have been introduced. That is exactly what we are doing here.

As the members examine this budget implementation act, they can be confident that its measures are related to the budgetary measures that we put into effect in 2018, 2017 and 2016. That is critically important, and in direct contrast with what the previous government had a habit of doing, which was to introduce things in budget implementation acts that were not part of budgetary measures. We have committed not to do that, but to move forward in a way that demonstrates a continuous and consistent approach to getting the job done for Canadians through budgets that matter.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in this budget implementation act there are three bills concerning important indigenous issues that should be separate and standalone bills.

First of all, when trying to go to the relevant areas of the document, there are no links. The document is so massive it takes 10 minutes to even get to one area of the bill. No hard copies were provided.

As well, we were shut down at committee when we wanted to look at the three standalone bills. After the mess the government made with Bill S-3, it is a travesty that the committee responsible for this area is not looking at these three pieces of legislation as standalone bills.

As the shadow minister, I will not even get a chance to speak in the House at second reading of this bill. This is absolutely shameful, and I would like the finance minister to stand up and justify how he can have three pieces of indigenous legislation not subject to proper scrutiny by the people best poised to scrutinize it.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, since coming into office, we have been working to make sure that we deal with really important challenges concerning indigenous peoples, and have done so in budget 2016, budget 2017 and budget 2018. We continue to find ways to ensure that reconciliation is happening in this country. That continues to be critically important from our perspective. That has been demonstrated through the time we have been in office, and demonstrated again in budget 2018.

The budget implementation act will allow us to continue to make a difference for indigenous peoples and middle-class Canadians across the country.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I think anyone who has taken even a cursory glance at this legislation would realize that it is impossible for parliamentarians to study, appreciate and comment meaningfully on all of the provisions within this budget legislation. That is something the Liberals pointed out about the previous government's legislation in the last Parliament. Now they want to hang their hat on the idea that somehow it is acceptable to include in this bill anything that was given minor mention in the budget, or something that could be implicitly interpreted as having meant that legislation might be be amended as a result. In fact, the parliamentary assistant to the government House leader had the gall yesterday to get up and cite examples from budget 2017 as justification for why some provisions are in the enabling legislation for budget 2018.

How far back do the Liberals think they can go? Are they going to be taking budget items from 1956 or 1984? There has to be some meaningful constraint on what goes into a budget implementation bill, and the Liberals are pushing the boundaries so far it does not even make sense.

Can we please have the time to look at this instead of their ramming it through?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we know how important it is to get the work done that we promised Canadians we would do. When we put forth the budget implementation act, built on the kinds of things we promised Canadians we would do in our budget, we needed to make sure we got it right. As we look at the page numbers, of course we need to think about its content and how important it is to have those technical details correct. It is not always perfectly straightforward.

However, I know that members from all parts of this House will agree that it is important to get it right. When we have the financial consumer protection framework in 75 pages, it means that we want to get it right. We want to make sure that we do protect consumers in the financial sector. That is critically important. As well, when we say that we are going to get the intellectual property strategy right and it is 96 pages long, it means it is a complicated subject that we need to be sure we get right.

That is what we committed to Canadians we would do and exactly what what we are doing in this budget implementation act.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, when I was on the finance committee, I was adamant and always fighting for the people of my riding, as well as people across Canada, who are very poor. One of the issues was the Canada child benefit and how those benefits are clawed back from people on social assistance. I was very proud of our minister when he came to our committee more than two years ago and talked about how he would ensure there would not be a clawback from these people, our fellow citizens who too often fall through the cracks because they do not often have representatives here in Parliament who have been in those situations.

There is mention in the budget about ensuring that if one receives social assistance payments under certain programs, that will not preclude one from receiving the Canada child benefit. That is in the budget. However, I would also like to highlight that in Manitoba, there is a continued clawback by the provincial government of federal funds for young children who are in the care of the state in the child welfare system. The province is actually making a profit off the backs of our most vulnerable children instead of ensuring that those funds go to their long-term education and are built up in a fund so they can receive a long-term benefit. The Province of Manitoba continues to claw back that money to balance its budgets on the backs of our young children. I hope the minister could talk a little about that.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for pointing out that it is important for us to continue to think about how the programs that are making a difference for middle-class Canadians and all Canadians are actually having the desired impact. He points out that we need to consider looking at those things.

The budget we have this year has done exactly that in a number of ways, but there will always be more work to be done. For example, we looked at the Canada child benefit and realized there were some situations where people were not actually getting access to the benefit appropriately because of their family situation. We made sure we dealt with that, the “kinship” issue, as we call it. We also realized that the Canada workers benefit, which his so important for people who are trying to get into work, was not actually getting to everyone who was eligible for it because they did not necessarily know about their eligibility. We found a way to make sure that was automatically available for people.

Dealing with people who are at a stage in their work life where there are perhaps not the kinds of opportunities or income they expect is important. We need to think about how these programs interact with other programs. That is something we continue to address. It is one of the reasons why in this budget implementation bill we have some specific language to ensure that we deal with challenges we are faced with, either as a result of the way provinces are dealing with the programs, or because of emerging issues that must be dealt with.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Mr. Speaker, ironically, the government is moving forward with this heavy-handed tactic to ram through this 800-page bill without having proper debate in the House of Commons. We were in finance committee when we were interrupted by these heavy-handed tactics. We were hearing from a number of witnesses there, including one witness, an economist in fact, who was talking about the fiscal irresponsibility of the government. At a time when the global economy is relatively strong, running these kinds of massive deficits, as the government is doing presently, puts us in real danger if there were to be any kind of a downturn in the economy. It would endanger the fiscal position of the country. Instead of doing what is prudent, as the previous Conservative government did in times that were good, namely, paying down the debt and running surpluses, this government is running massive deficits. That obviously puts us in a terrible position.

This is a really easy question for the finance minister. It should not be difficult for him to answer it, but he has evaded and dodged it numerous times. I would ask if he would just answer the question. In what year will the Liberal government finally balance the budget?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I should start by correcting some facts. The previous government actually built up an additional $150 billion worth of debt. As we saw, that government, unfortunately, had among the lowest rates of growth we have seen in a hundred years. It has been an enormous challenge, of course, for us to deal with the challenges left by the previous government, but we took the responsible approach. We said that we would make investments so that we could get ourselves in a better position. The good news—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Order. I am trying to hear the answer and I am having a hard time with the chatter that is going on.

I will let the hon. Minister of Finance continue.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the good news is that we are making responsible investments that are growing our economy and continuing to put ourselves in a position where we have the resilience to deal with the challenges.

What the member might not know about the issue he was referring to is that the Canadian balance sheet is the strongest among the G7 countries. We have a debt-to-GDP ratio that is less than half the average, in fact the lowest, in the G7 by a big margin. That puts us in a good position for the long term. Importantly, we have taken the right decision to invest in middle-class Canadians so they can have the opportunity to continue to benefit from economic growth in the future.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance said earlier that the government wanted to take a long time to get this legislation right because there are important measures in the budget. Those are his words.

I am wondering why the Minister of Finance does not think there ought to be some sort of proportionate amount of time for Parliament to study these measures and ensure that the government did in fact get those things right. That is our job here. Our job is not just to take the government's word for it. Our job is to examine the work of the government and ensure that it has done the job properly.

If it takes a long time for the government to develop proposals, and particularly if they are lengthy and complex, why does the minister not believe that parliamentarians should be afforded the same amount of time that the government had to develop them in the first place?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we made a commitment to Canadians. We were elected in 2015 with an agenda to make a real measurable difference for middle-class Canadians. We laid out some important things that we wanted to ensure that we achieved over the time period that we are in government, and that is critically important.

We have moved forward in budget 2018 with measures that we told Canadians we would get at. We said that we wanted to get at pay equity to make sure that women and men have similar outcomes for similar work. That too was critically important. We know on an ongoing basis we need to ensure that we have an intellectual property strategy that allows innovation in our country. We know having protections for consumers in the banking sector is critically important.

There are measures in this budget implementation bill that would allow us to move forward in a way that is consistent with what we promised Canadians.

We have done consultations to get to an approach that makes sense. We are looking forward to all members in the House having the opportunity to vote on a bill that would make a real difference for Canadians.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance has highlighted many things he does not know.

He does not know when the budget is going to be balanced, quite likely because he knows it is a structural deficit and that the government is not going to get out of deficit for a long time.

He does not know that capital investment is fleeing this country. We saw that in the announcement over the weekend. A company called Encana has basically given up on Canada.

He may not even know what he campaigned on in 2015, but I will remind him. He said, “Omnibus bills prevent Parliament from properly reviewing and debating [the] proposals. We will change the House of Commons Standing Orders to bring an end to this undemocratic process.” This is like a double whammy because one, we have an omnibus bill, and two, it is under time allocation.

The minister does not know when the budget is going to be balanced. He does not know that capital investment is fleeing this country. Does he know what he ran on in 2015 when it comes to his democratic policy platform piece?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there were three comments in that intervention. What we should do is identify the issues that were brought forward.

First and foremost, we are in a situation where our debt to gross national product ratio is declining over time. That is a responsible way to manage our country's balance sheet and we will continue to do that.

We also know that business investment, which did go down as a result of the change in oil prices, has been going up for the last year and a half. This is not a situation where these facts are debatable. It is just, in fact, the facts.

Finally, we committed that our budget implementation acts would be related to budget measures. That is exactly what we have delivered.

With respect to each one of those comments, we feel that we have moved forward in a way that is appropriate, and importantly, it is having a big impact on Canadians. That is what we are really after.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Speaker, there has been some discussion today about what is in this 800-page budget implementation act but there is one key piece of information that is not in the act. My colleagues have asked this question before. According to the minister's projections, in what year does the government believe Canada should balance its budget?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we have been very clear that it is important to have a fiscal anchor. We have said that investing in the long-term health of our economy is important. Investing in infrastructure is important. The investments we have made in middle-class Canadians with the Canada child benefit are critically important.

These investments have had the desired impact. They have grown our economy. They have also shown that we can do that while reducing the amount of debt as a function of our gross domestic product. That will continue to be important for us. What I can say is that our fiscal health is strong.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I would like the Minister of Finance to reflect on the commitment the Prime Minister made to Canadians. He indicated that the first priority was the middle class and ensuring there were tax breaks for the middle class. We have made wonderful progressive moves such as the Canada child benefit program which my colleague from Winnipeg Centre mentioned. We have made deep increases to our guaranteed income supplement. We have seen negotiations between territories and provinces on things such as the CPP and a price on pollution.

How does all this fit in terms of the important role government has in fighting to enrich Canada's middle class in every way and those aspiring to be a part of it?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, that is a really important question.

We need to think about how we make a real difference for Canadians who are trying to make sure they can raise their families in dignity. We started with some measures that deal with the anxiety Canadian families are facing and that was, importantly, a middle-class tax break. For those people earning between $45,000 and $90,000, we reduced the taxes in that category from 22% to 20.5%, a 7% decrease. We then added on the Canada child benefit which helped those families even more, raising hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty.

We realized we needed to do more. The increase in the guaranteed income supplement dealt with single seniors who found themselves in poverty. Of course, for Canadians anxious about their long-term future, we negotiated with the provinces to make sure we could actually enhance the Canada pension plan.

These are the sorts of measures that have made a real difference for families today. They make a real difference for families and people who are looking toward the future. We will continue to fight for Canadian families to make sure they have the capacity to raise their children and be confident about the future.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have a simple question for the Minister of Finance, a question he has been unable to answer. It is very straightforward. In what year will the budget be balanced?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to respond to that new question by saying that we need to make sure that our economy and our country are resilient to face challenges. We are not going to do what the previous government did and add $150 billion to our debt and have nothing to show for it. Instead, we are going to carefully manage the amount of debt we have as a function of our economy. Happily our economy is growing, unlike it was with the previous government. That is a very important factor in our ability to manage down that debt load. We will continue to do that because we know being responsible is important while we invest in middle-class Canadians.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the minister's plan is to manage down the debt load by increasing the debt $20 billion every year. That was this year. According to the Parliamentary Budget Officer, the amount of interest on Canada's national debt will rise to $40 billion per year by 2022. That is more than we currently spend on health care transfers. That might be very good for the wealthy bankers and bond holders that travel in the finance minister's circle, but working-class taxpayers will have to pay more in tax so that those wealthy bond holders can have more in their pockets.

One thing that could mitigate against that injustice and protect us against future economic difficulties that inevitably come is a balanced budget. The finance minister said the budget would balance itself by the year 2019. In what year will the budget balance itself?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we should examine carefully the issue around how Canadians are feeling with respect to taxes because this government has taken measures that have made a real difference in terms of their ability to take home more pay for their families. By lowering middle-class taxes, by increasing the Canada child benefit and by increasing the guaranteed income supplement, we have put people in a position where they actually have a greater amount of take-home pay. That is critically important.

By putting a price on pollution, something we do not want but by giving back a rebate to families so they will have more money, in 2019, middle-class Canadian families will find themselves more than $2,000 better off, especially if they are in the four provinces where the federal pollution pricing backstop will be in place.

We have been able to make the important investments to make our economy grow while we have been reducing taxes on middle-class Canadians to help people have more confidence about the future.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

It is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith the question necessary to dispose of the motion now before the House.

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

No.