Debates of Feb. 15th, 2018

Opposition Motion—Veterans Affairs

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have this opportunity to speak to the motion moved by our colleague.

What really gets me here is that the motion has nothing to do with the Liberals' self-congratulatory blather about what they did or did not do. The motion reads as follows:

That the House call on the Prime Minister to apologize to veterans for his insensitive comments at a recent town hall in Edmonton...

What members on this side want is for the Prime Minister to admit he made a mistake. Making mistakes is human. I think veterans would be happy with that. The Conservatives did not make this story up. It was all over the web. That is what the Prime Minister said at town halls. He is the one who made that promise to veterans, not us. What we want to hear today is one simple phrase: “I am sorry I disrespected you.”

The Liberals are always tooting their own horn. I get the impression that the word “respect” bothers them. All we are asking for is one simple sentence. Our veterans went out there and fought, and now they are back home and they have rights. They want an apology, and we will keep pressing for that until we hear the words “apologize” and “respect”.

[Karen McCrimmon, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned in my speech, we made a lot of promises to veterans, and we are going to keep them.

I understand that they want things to move faster. They want to get things done. I want to get things done. I want to achieve these promises that we made. Sometimes that leads to frustration. We cannot go back, as I mentioned before, to these boutique, quick fixes. It did not help. What we need is a long-term, sustainable, comprehensive plan in order to help veterans over the long term. That is exactly what we are working on.

Is it going to happen overnight? No, it is not. That kind of significant change takes time. We understand the frustration of the veterans who want things to move along faster. We are doing our best. They are going to be happy with the end product.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I stood earlier in the House and did my speech and I talked about three constituents we are working with right now. I am just going to say one name again, William Webb.

William Webb served this country for 20 years. Now he is faced with multiple challenges because of caseworkers continuously getting burned out. Whenever he calls, he is again put with somebody else and he has to re-traumatize himself, telling his story. He is just not getting the support he needs. I want to say, with his post-traumatic stress disorder, one of the biggest supports to him is his service dog. That is not under any of this. That means he had to figure out how to get that himself.

How can we do better for our veterans? I hope this member can answer that question.

[Karen McCrimmon, Liberal, Kanata—Carleton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said, we have hired back 460 people, 180 of them are caseworkers. That is not enough. Unfortunately, because the caseload has grown over the years, we are having a hard time keeping up with the change, the churn within the department. We are making changes in the department in order to lessen that.

In terms of the service dog issue, I think the member will find that we have made huge progress. We should be hearing about the efficacy study that was funded. That should come out, I would imagine, in the next couple of months. We are going to be poised to address this issue in the future. It will require some extra work and a different way of thinking about benefits and services, but personally, I believe it is the right way forward for a lot of veterans. This will make a difference in their lives. We have made progress, but there is still more progress to make.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to discuss the progress and efforts our government has made to support our veterans to this point.

As a member of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs, I can assure this House that our Prime Minister and the Minister of Veterans Affairs are very engaged in the issues that affect our veterans and have made their well-being and reintegration into civilian life a priority.

We made a commitment to make it easier for the men and women who have served in uniform so courageously to access their benefits. We are talking about members of our society who have given up so much for our country. They deserve benefits that meet their needs.

In 2015, we pledged to make it easier for veterans to access services, to do more to support their families, to streamline benefits, to reduce the administrative overhead, to improve the veterans' experience with Veterans Affairs Canada, and to help them make a more successful transition to civilian life after service. We have been delivering on those promises, and I will share some examples.

For years, veterans, veterans' advocates, and other stakeholders have told successive governments that there are problems with some of the benefits and services offered by Veterans Affairs as well as with the delivery of those services. Starting in 2016, the Minister of Veterans Affairs began reaching out to the veteran community to ask for their input. He, his predecessor, and the parliamentary secretary have travelled from one end of the country to the other to listen to veterans across the nation.

At the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs, veterans and their advocates and stakeholders repeatedly told us that information was often difficult to understand. Eligibility rules were confusing. Veterans had a hard time navigating the process of applying for and receiving benefits and services. Often, they missed out on programs or benefits they were eligible for because they did not have enough information to ask the questions they needed to, in order to find out more about those programs.

As one veteran put it, “I don't know what I don't know”. This lack of knowledge is a real barrier for the Canadian Armed Forces member who is trying to make a successful transition out of the military to a new life after service, often in a new community, and often with very different needs and career goals. We listened to veterans' concerns. We heard them and we acted on them.

Veterans Affairs Canada commenced an 18-month, top-to-bottom review of the way it delivers services to veterans. Department officials also consulted with front-line staff about the strengths and the challenges of the department and its programs.

The report that came out of that review made 31 recommendations, with 91 actions to improve service delivery. The measures were focused on aligning policies, programs, and functions to support excellence in delivering services. The measures were also aimed at investing in tools, technology, and training to empower Veterans Affairs employees to deliver more effective services to veterans and their families, as well as strengthening communications, information sharing, and outreach. They were also aimed at developing a new model for delivering services to veterans, one that is simpler, more integrated and user friendly.

The department has now adopted a veteran-centric approach that puts the individual veteran at the core of every decision. They work diligently to ensure a higher standard of care and service, and to uphold the “one veteran, one standard” approach, which is to say that each veteran is treated as an individual with the same standard of respect, support, and care.

By the end of 2017, Veterans Affairs Canada had completed 37 of the actions recommended in the service delivery review. It will complete an additional 45 by the end of the 2018-19 fiscal year, and is working with other organizations to put the remaining nine into action.

There is one goal, one single purpose driving these changes: making real improvements in the well-being of veterans, and for their families, too.

This is in addition to the commitments we made to veterans from the outset of this government.

Veterans were disillusioned by 10 years of neglect under the previous Conservative government. That is why our government invested over $10 billion into increasing compensation for pain and suffering; increasing income replacement for veterans on vocational or psycho-social rehabilitation, or veterans who cannot return to work; restoring access to critical services like reopening the nine offices closed by the Conservatives; and hiring 460 staff, focusing on mental health, creating an education benefit, and investing more into families and caregivers. Veterans asked for changes, they asked for action, and we acted.

Just months ago, the Minister of Veterans Affairs announced the details of a pension for life option, a plan designed to help veterans live a full and productive life post-service. This new pension for life option is a monthly tax-free payment for life to recognize pain and suffering. It provides income replacement payable at 90% of a veteran's pre-release salary, indexed annually, and for life for those who need it.

The Pension Act was no panacea, which is why every party in this place supported changes to a model that includes wellness.

Our pension for life gives back the option of a monthly pension that could be double or triple or more than the amount of the lump sum payment to provide financial security for veterans and their families while guaranteeing the important wellness benefits like rehabilitation, education or career training benefits.

Take a 30-year-old veteran with 12 years of service who is 60% disabled. He or she would be able to receive $4,660 per month across his or her lifetime in pain and suffering compensation and income replacement, plus $1,000-a-month to his or her caregiver for supports. The veteran could access up to $80,000 for post-secondary education. There is no longer a time limit on applying for rehabilitation services or vocational assistance. Penson for life works with veterans, providing them with financial, educational, and mental supports they need to seamlessly transition to their new life post-service.

We know we are not finished, and the commitment continues to improve the lives of the men and women who have dedicated, even sacrificed, their lives to our peace and security.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague from Saint-Laurent certainly knows that the Liberals did not invent the wheel when it comes to the veterans reintegration, rehabilitation services, and vocational assistance program.

I was the veterans affairs critic in 2015-16. The hon. member for Saint-Laurent is a member of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs. Perhaps she should do her homework. Maybe she did, but is not saying. She talked about the increased benefits under her government, and if that is true then that is great, but we did the same thing. We increased all the benefits. The first time the charter came into effect, in 2006, it was under Mr. Harper's Conservative government. Most benefits were increased.

However, we did not make sweeping promises during an election. We never over-promised anything, not for any sector of society.

Unfortunately, the hon. member did not touch on what we are talking about. I would like her to answer the following: does she think that it was honourable of the Prime Minister to solemnly promise in 2015, hand on his heart, that veterans should never, ever have to go to court to fight for their rights, when this very government has now allowed its Department of Justice to take veterans back to court in the Equitas Society case? Does she think that is acceptable and that the Prime Minister was right to break his promise to veterans? That was a solemn promise.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Speaker, our government is making a lot of investments in the Department of Veterans Affairs. We have invested a lot of money in education to help soldiers transition to civilian life. We have reopened the nine offices that were closed by the Conservative government. A lot of cuts were made during the 10 years that Mr. Harper was prime minister. We are doing our best. Obviously, there were a lot of problems under that Conservative government and we are trying to play catch-up where needed.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, when I took the oath to become a member of Parliament, I understood fundamentally that it meant I would have to be accountable to the people in my riding, and that I would be privileged to hear stories that would be hard to hold and carry every day in this place.

Today, I am asking that member, a member who represents the Liberal government, about one of my constituents named Don. Don has been fighting with Veterans Affairs Canada since the 1980s. While serving this country, he was exposed to asbestos, and has long-term health concerns because of it. He still continues to fight with the department.

I am so sad today that the Prime Minister will not stand up and apologize to veterans who have served this country in faith. I am so upset that the Prime Minister will not stand up and apologize to people like Don, who lives every day of his life with an illness, and the Liberal government, like other governments before it, has not supported him.

Will you stand up, and make a commitment to Don that you will help?

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I want to remind hon. members to speak through the chair, and not directly to each other.

The hon. member for Saint-Laurent.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for representing her constituents well, as she should.

Our government is committed to helping veterans in whatever way we can. The people who are at all the service desks are committed to making a difference. They are not turning anybody away. No one has been turned away from receiving services, or for at last opening up a My VAC Account, which is basically the first step to receiving the services that they need.

I feel sorry for the member's constituent, Don. I hope we can make a difference. I have never heard of this person myself. As a member of the veterans affairs committee, I would love to hear from him in order to maybe bring his situation to light.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am very honoured to rise today. I will be sharing my time with the member for Lakeland.

As usual, I would like to say hello to the many constituents of Beauport—Limoilou who are watching. Two months ago, as I was going door to door in Limoilou, I met a man who said that he listened to all of my speeches. He talked to me about how the festivals at Cartier-Brébeuf park cause noise disturbances. I want to say hello to him.

First, I would like to say that I am very passionate and care a lot about any issues that affect Canada's veterans, mainly for family reasons. On the Clarke side of the family, fathers and sons have served in the Canadian Armed Forces since 1890, and I was no exception. My great-grandfather, William Clarke, served in the First World War and the Boer War. My grandfather, Robert Clarke, served in the Second World War. My father, Patrick Clarke, served our country in Berlin during the German occupation in the 1970s. My brother, Anthony Clarke, served in Afghanistan in 2006 during the campaign in which most lives were lost. I served the country in the reserves and never went overseas. It is perhaps one my biggest disappointments that I was not able to serve this beautiful country in times of war.

My colleagues opposite say that we, as Conservatives, should be embarrassed about how we treated veterans. However, I just shared my family's and my history, and I am in no way embarrassed to be a Conservative. I assure my colleagues opposite that I am being sincere. If the Conservatives had acted poorly towards veterans, I would admit it, if I were minimally honourable and capable of analyzing public policy—which I am. This is not at all the case, however, and I will have to talk about everything that we did for veterans. This is not the primary focus of my speech, but I have no choice, because all the Liberal members have been saying since this morning that the Conservatives were horrible to veterans. Our treatment of veterans is not the focus of this opposition day. Today's focus is the following:

That the House call on the Prime Minister to apologize to veterans for his insensitive comments at a recent town hall in Edmonton and show veterans the respect that they deserve by fulfilling his campaign promise to them, when he said on August 24, 2015, that “If I earn the right to serve this country as your Prime Minister, no veteran will be forced to fight their own government for the support and compensation they have earned”.

Not only did the Prime Minister break this solemn promise in an egregious manner when he stated at a town hall in Edmonton that veterans were asking for too much, but he broke three other promises. The Prime Minister promised Canadians that, if they voted for him, he would restore lifetime pensions for veterans. He broke this promise because the lifetime pension established and presented by the Liberals before Christmas does not really restore the old lifetime pension. Most veterans who elect to pull out of the former system, which applies to those who fought before 2006, will not get 100% of the amounts they were receiving.

The Prime Minister also promised that veterans would not have to fight their own government to obtain the support and compensation they deserve. Yesterday, my great colleague from Barrie—Innisfil introduced a bill that proposes a covenant. It is a commitment, an agreement, or a contract. My colleague from Barrie—Innisfil probably wanted to enter into a proper contract with veterans by changing the Department of Veterans Affairs Act and compensation for the Canadian Armed Forces by amending section 4 of the act by adding the following:

...the Minister shall take into account the following principles:

(a) that the person, as well as their dependants or survivors, is to be treated with dignity, respect and fairness;

It is interesting, because the Prime Minister delivered a big speech here yesterday about the relationship that his government and Canada have with our brave indigenous peoples, who have been here for thousands of years. He said we do not need to change the Constitution, because section 35 already says that we recognize the rights of indigenous peoples. The Prime Minister said that instead, we need to change the way we view indigenous peoples and treat them with dignity and respect, and that is how we will give them the recognition they want.

However, that is exactly what my colleague from Barrie—Innisfil wrote in his motion on veterans. His motion called for the concept of treating veterans with dignity and respect to be incorporated into the act, so that bureaucrats and judges would take that concept into consideration when making decisions about veterans' benefits. Sadly, the Prime Minister voted against that motion yesterday. Is that not a shame?

I am disappointed, not only because the Liberals voted against this motion, but also because day after day in question period, the Minister of Veterans Affairs, the Prime Minister, and his veteran colleagues trot out the same hogwash about how the Conservatives treated veterans disgracefully. Those are lies.

Ours was the first government to implement the new veterans charter. We significantly increased virtually all of the compensation amounts. Every day in question period, rather than actually answering questions and apologizing for what the Prime Minister said, the Liberals spout off this kind of nonsense when what they should be doing is explaining how they intend to respect veterans, some of whom are meeting with a number of my colleagues outside.

Another thing I am disappointed about has to do with Bill C-357, a bill I introduced to create a grandfather clause for veterans wanting to transition to the public service. They could thus avoid having to work another five years to collect full retirement benefits. It is a very simple bill.

I have repeatedly requested a meeting with the Minister of Veterans Affairs. I even told him to forget about my bill and incorporate its amendments into the Treasury Board rules so that the 80 veterans who have to work an extra five years in Canada's public service to retire with dignity can benefit from the grandfather clause. The Minister of Veterans Affairs refused to meet with me. This would cost about $2 million. That is peanuts.

As a final point, in response to my colleagues, I want to point out what we, the Conservatives, have done since 2006. First, we created the position of veterans ombudsman. Second, we announced clinics for veterans affected by post-traumatic stress disorder. Third, we established the Veterans Bill of Rights, which is on my desk in Beauport—Limoilou. On top of that, we announced additional funding to support operational stress injury clinics.

Furthermore, we created the atomic veterans recognition program. We launched an outreach campaign with community partners to identify and support homeless veterans in the Montreal area. In addition, in 2010, we created a community war memorial program, because once again, veterans often need recognition. We also introduced benefits for seriously injured veterans, including the earnings loss benefit, to increase monthly financial support.

All of that was introduced by the Conservative government, and that is not all. We also improved access to the career impact allowance, another measure created by the Conservative government. Is that not incredible? We also created a $1,000 supplement to the career impact allowance for the most seriously injured veterans. That is another Conservative government measure. Lastly, let us not forget the flexible payment options for veterans and Canadian Forces members who are receiving a disability award. That is another Conservative government measure. Is that not incredible, Mr. Speaker?

Despite everything I just said, the bottom line is that the Prime Minister made a solemn promise in 2015, hand on heart and surrounded by top military brass who are now MPs. He said that veterans would never, ever have to fight in court for their rights.

That is what is going on. He broke his promise. There is nothing honourable about that. It is most unfortunate.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Mr. Speaker, there were a lot of unbelievable things in my hon. friend's comments. When I was thinking about running for office, in addition to the cuts the previous government made to veterans services, there was also over a billion dollars in lapsed funding, money the Conservatives promised and did not deliver, which was returned to the federal treasury to supposedly balance the budget.

What I also find unbelievable is this. Given all the wonderful things the member says the Conservatives did, why did the Equitas people take them to court? Why did the Conservatives not settle that before their time in office was done? Why were veterans turning their backs on the minister, who is a decent guy, and the former prime minister in the period leading up to the 2015 election? If all of the unbelievable things they did were so unbelievably good, why were we left with such a mess?

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we did not leave a mess. Concerning the Equitas Society, the hon. member for Durham came to a truce with them with dignity and respect, and said that when the Conservatives came back as the next government, they would continue to discuss together how to deal with this situation, which did not happen.

The reality is that the Prime Minister went further in his campaign and did politics on the backs of veterans, on the back of this court case, as he did politics this week on the back of a court case in Saskatchewan. He is always doing that. He did that with Equitas. This is the basis of the discourse today. With his hand on his heart, he said that veterans will never, ever have to fight the government for their rights. Then he broke his promise. This is what is happening today. This is what we are fighting against.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I have a great deal of respect for my colleague, who is always passionate about these issues.

We are talking about veterans and I find it ironic that the Conservatives, who closed nine regional Veterans Affairs offices, are criticizing the Liberals for not doing enough. Under the Conservatives, $1.5 billion in funds allocated to veterans were never disbursed. That means that $1.5 billion in services were never provided. There is the Blaszczyk case that was mentioned by the member who introduced the motion. The Equitas lawsuit was launched by disabled veterans against the Harper government, a Conservative government. The Conservatives should be careful about asking for an apology from the Liberals, because their hands are far from clean in this file.

Many veterans and members of the Royal Canadian Legion, of which there are five branches in my riding of Salaberry—Suroît, have suffered for two and a half years. They have been waiting for services for years. They have been waiting for two and a half years, but it started under the Conservatives. Without being partisan, we must all work on improving the services that should be provided to veterans. We have been waiting for more than two and a half years.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Before we hear a response, I want to remind hon. members that there are people giving discourses, asking questions, and getting answers, and I am hearing loud discussions across the floor. That is not a good way to do things. The rules allow for people to cross the floor, talk to each other in a whisper, and then go back, to respect the person who is answering the question.

I am looking forward to the answer from the hon. member for Beauport—Limoilou.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I too have a great deal of respect for my NDP colleague who makes very impassioned speeches.

I have two answers that are short and to the point. The new veterans charter is a new paradigm for the treatment of veterans. It is not perfect. I would say that if it were up to me, I would get rid of the new veterans charter and go back to the old system, which had better pensions. A veteran should not have to prove that he suffered. When he returns home from war let us just give him what he is owed.

This new paradigm was put in place by the Paul Martin government in December 2005. Ours was the first government to work with this new paradigm, whereby veterans carry the burden of proof. They have to prove that they suffered mentally or physically. That is the problem. In the United States, the government has the burden of proof. If the Liberals want to improve the situation, they have to reverse the onus.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am grateful to be speaking to this motion today calling for the Prime Minister to apologize for his insensitive comments toward Canada's veterans.

I have to start with a simple comparison. During the last election, the Prime Minister said, “If I earn the right to serve this country as your Prime Minister, no veteran will be forced to fight their own government for the support and compensation that they have earned.” However, only a few weeks ago, when a young PPCLI vet in Edmonton asked the Prime Minister why the government is fighting veterans in court, the Prime Minister said that veterans are “asking for more than we are able to give right now”. Is it any wonder that veterans are marching today in Ottawa, in Vegreville, and in Bonnyville, in Lakeland.

Like many Canadians, members of my family were and are veterans of the Canadian Armed Forces, and I am blessed to have gotten to know many veterans throughout my life. Canadian veterans are not always in uniform, but for those who still wear a uniform, and those who do not, they are and were Canada's best. Canadian veterans deserve the best from their country and eternal gratitude from all Canadians. They deserve the highest level of care and dignity from their government and from the department whose mandate is to serve them. I know that Lakeland constituents, like all Canadians, believe passionately that veterans deserve dignity and respect.

William McGregor, now in his 90s, served on the European front in World War II. William is from Bonnyville. He served Canada by helping to liberate France from the Nazis. William's distinguished service as a medic earned him the highest national order of France, a Knight of the Legion of Honour. Although William and one of his brothers survived storming the beaches of Normandy, his other brother did not and is now buried in France. William did not enlist as an 18-year-old to ask his country to give him anything in return. William still does not ask anything of his country.

The veterans who have been forced to ask a court to give them the help they need are not asking for more than Canadians are willing to give. The Prime Minister's rebuke to veterans is shameful, and it simply does not at all reflect the concern, compassion, and respect of Canadians toward veterans. It is especially disappointing, given the Prime Minister's own lofty promises, and sadly, what were clearly empty words during the campaign.

What I hope we can all agree on is that we should not insult Canada's veterans when they are simply asking the Prime Minister to account for the difference between what he says and what he does.

Canadian soldiers owe us nothing. They have served us well. They and their families have a sacred bond with Canada, which is responsible to them in turn. Our job is not only to see those with whom Canada has made the sacred covenant be generally or usually treated with respect and dignity but to do what we can to ensure that this ethos informs every interaction between veterans and the government, on Canadians' behalf. However, yesterday, the Prime Minister and every Liberal member defeated a private member's bill that would have required the government to ensure that veterans and their families were treated with dignity, respect, and fairness, with consideration given to their unique experiences and sacrifices, and that any decisions regarding their care or treatment be made in a timely manner. This is a covenant that is in place in the U.S., the U.K., and other countries.

I would remind my colleagues that the House of Commons even unanimously supported a motion in 2015 that recognized the standalone covenant of moral, social, legal, and fiduciary obligation between the Canadian people and the Government of Canada to provide the care and financial compensation needed by members of the Armed Forces who have been injured or disabled or who have died as a result of their military service. However, the Liberals defeated it.

The Prime Minister should, at the very least, always treat veterans and their families with dignity, respect, and fairness if they are not going to support putting those actions into law. The motion does not require anything unreasonable or burdensome for the Prime Minister. It is a simple request. It should be an easy decision.

Now, I want to be fair. Every member in this House has, and will, from time to time, make a mistake when speaking. There but for the grace of God go I. However, when we make a mistake, as the Prime Minister has clearly done, we should own up to it, and we should apologize.

My constituents who are veterans deserve this apology. They are veterans like Fred Roddick. Fred is from the border region between Lakeland and Battle River—Crowfoot. Fred flew Catalinas for the Australian air force and fought Nazi U-boats off the southern tip of Africa. In one engagement, six hours from the nearest land, he destroyed a U-boat and his plane took damage. With great determination and bravery, he piloted his damaged plane all the way back to land, a six-hour flight, carefully landed it using only half the landing gear, and returned his crew to their base safely.

There is also the story of Cliff Espetveidt, a farmer from Marwayne. He and his brothers signed up to serve because they saw what Hitler was doing in Europe, and they felt that they had to do something about it. The brothers were initially stationed in England and were supposed to have gone to Dieppe as reinforcements, but they ended up in the Sicily campaign. Cliff tells of how his brother was shot twice, once by a sniper. He survived, but with scars and a hand that no longer worked. When the war ended, Cliff's unit was in Holland. The happiness and celebration eventually finished, and Cliff and his brothers returned to Marwayne. Life eventually went back to normal, but Cliff still keeps his memories, and his brother still keeps his wounds.

There are countless other veterans from across Canada and in Lakeland with stories just like Fred's, William's, and Cliff's, such as John Karmandy from Vegreville and Jack Leighton from Kitscoty. Their amazing stories only marginally reveal the nature of what Canada's soldiers experience in combat.

These men and women undergo terribly demanding training and evaluation preparing themselves mentally and physically for combat to put themselves at risk and to fight to prevent the loss of their own lives and the lives of their comrades. That is before a soldier, pilot, or sailor even arrives in a combat zone. To face daily the possibility that they may take a life or lose their own would undoubtedly leave a permanent mark on anyone. To then witness and experience horrors only seen on a battlefield, to personally lose limbs, senses, or the ability to fall asleep are experiences only others who have gone through it too can truly understand.

Canada asks this of members of the armed forces, and Canada needs people to serve. Canada asks them to suffer abroad so that we may not suffer at home and so we can live freely and safely. Veterans serve without asking to know the details or to know how everything will turn out. They do not even know to which combat zone they might be deployed. They simply sign up to serve.

There is no legitimate reason any member should oppose this motion. The Prime Minister said he would not force veterans to the courts to get the help they needed, and then when veterans were forced to the courts and asked him about it, he said they were asking for too much, saying that they were trying to take something that was not theirs. He must apologize.

I would like to offer my sincere thanks and gratitude to the member for Brantford—Brant, the member for Yorkton—Melville, and the members for Durham and Barrie—Innisfil for their dedication to Canada's veterans. I will support this motion, and I encourage all members of this House to join me in that effort.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Families]

Mr. Speaker, this is a debate about empathy, but it is fake empathy coming from the other side. It is as fake as the allegation of fake news. While we are talking about fake news, the NDP yesterday raised an issue about Toronto Star employees being laid off. That is a workplace in my riding, and I watched as the Conservatives laughed and clapped and made fun of the fact that 52 families in my riding lost jobs yesterday. They found that funny.

Let me remind the people opposite that when it comes to fake empathy, when they laugh, they are the first party to stand up for resource workers, and we stand with them in that regard. However, print journalists use paper, paper comes from pulp mills, and pulp mills rely on forestry workers. When they laugh at 52 families in my riding losing jobs, they are laughing at journalists, and they are laughing at resource workers.

When it comes to fake empathy, it is no different on the veterans file. The shear hypocrisy, the shear arrogance of the party opposite—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

We have a point of order.

The hon. member for Wellington—Halton Hills.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Standing Order 11 clearly mandates that members be relevant in debate and in questions and commentary.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

As I have said before in the House, I have heard both questions and answers and discourse go on and seem irrelevant, but the hon. members usually bring it around and bring it to the question at hand. I will leave it with the hon. member for Spadina—Fort York to come up with a question. He is almost out of time, so I will let him ask the question.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I was talking about the fake empathy the members of the party opposite are capable of generating. The sheer hypocrisy, the sheer arrogance, the sheer capacity to lack all compassion for Canadians was evident in the fact that they fired Julian Fantino as veterans affairs minister because he did not stand up for veterans. They may have fired him. This party got rid of him from the House of Commons. This party will remember the laughter they had for Toronto workers who were laid off, just as we are going to remember and veterans are going to remember the contempt they had for the plight of veterans in this country.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am sorry to have triggered such anger and fury in my colleague with my words about veterans in my constituency today, speaking on behalf of Canadians who respect and believe that veterans deserve dignity. Thou doth protest too much, comes to mind.

Why do we not actually focus on the subject of this motion and actually listen to what veterans are saying about the Liberals and about the gap between the words they say and what they do?

The Equitas Society said that the position taken by the government was astonishing. For them to stand up and say that we do not have any special obligation to veterans is completely contrary to everything they have said in Parliament and during the election campaign.

That is what a veteran said about the Liberals.

The Royal Canadian Legion said, “These sorts of words are extremely insensitive.” That is what veterans say about the Liberals.

Another one said, “The reality is—veterans aren't seeing that money.” That is what a veterans' advocate said about the Liberals.

I really hope the member will focus on the motion today and acknowledge that veterans deserve the dignity and respect we are calling for. It is high time. The Liberals have been in government for three years. They made promises they either never intended to keep or did not cost out, and they should be accountable for that. That is the focus of the motion today.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

The hon. member for Lakeland will have one minute and 30 seconds remaining, perhaps time for one short question and answer, when the House next resumes this topic.

2018 Winter Olympics

[Stephen Fuhr, Liberal, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the constituents of my riding of Kelowna—Lake Country, it gives me great pleasure to recognize our community's contribution to Canada's efforts in the 2018 Winter Olympics.

Competing in her third Olympic games, Kelsey Serwa of Kelowna is leading the charge for the women's ski cross. Kelsey won silver at the Sochi Olympics in 2014, and placed fifth at the Vancouver Olympics in 2010. Tess Critchlow will compete tonight in the women's snowboard cross. Julia Ransom of Kelowna competed in the women's biathlon. Ian Deans of Lake Country has been named an alternate for Team Canada's men's ski cross. Bob Ursel will coach the South Korean national men's curling team.

Currently, Canada's team is doing very well overall, with 13 medals, ranking third among all countries.

We are immensely proud of the team. Go Canada go.