Debates of March 2nd, 2018

Access to Information on Prime Minister's Trip to India

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, we always respect our civil service and the fine work it does. The Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety have been very clear on the issue. Much like the New Democratic Party House leader, we will take into consideration everything that my friend across the way has put on the record today and provide a comment once we are back in session after the constituency break week.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Québec debout, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to support the comments made by the member for Durham and his request that you intervene. The issue of our privileges is fundamental, and it is unacceptable for a minister or senior government official to give information to the media and not give it to us. Part of your role is to defend our privileges and our rights. I am therefore counting on you, and that is why I support the intervention by my colleague from Durham.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

We will take this under advisement and return to the House in a timely manner.

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-69, an act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Impact Assessment Act

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Winnipeg North.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, our government recognizes the importance of putting legislation in place that would make a positive difference in dealing with Canada's environment and with our energy sector while considering indigenous peoples.

This legislation takes a strong step forward. That is reinforced by the fact that the Conservatives say we have gone too far and the New Democrats say we have not gone far enough. Our government recognizes that we can move forward on energy while taking into consideration the environment and the consultations that are required. That is one of the reasons we were able to do something that the Conservatives failed at doing while they were in government for 10 years, such as getting a pipeline approved.

At the very least, would the member not recognize that Canadians expect us to bring forward legislation of this nature?

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my excellent colleague for his question. The people of Winnipeg North are well represented, given how often he rises to speak in the House.

However, speaking does not necessarily mean working effectively. We in the opposition party have a keen interest in, a strong desire, and the intention to contribute to the environmental movement, in the sense that we want to protect our planet every day. When my colleague states that the Conservatives say the Liberals have gone too far, I have one simple and clear reply. The NDP is accusing the Liberals of not going far enough, and the Liberals are accusing us of saying they are not going far enough. If you ask me, the Liberals are not going anywhere.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to continue along that line. I would ask the member where he thinks this bill has failed.

The Minister of Natural Resources gets up almost weekly, it used to be daily, and says that he has restored the confidence of Canadians in the energy regulatory system and yet Nanos Research came out with a poll a couple of months ago that showed that only 2% of Canadians had confidence in the regulatory system and that had been steadily dropping since the Harper days. People try to say that they have restored Canadians' confidence, but instead their confidence continues to erode.

I am wondering if my colleague could comment on that and whether he thinks that this bill would do anything to restore that confidence.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague from South Okanagan—West Kootenay for his question.

I somewhat agree with him that public confidence is not there. Since the current government came into office, the public has been losing confidence in the institution and in the measures being taken to improve our environment.

I would like to read my colleagues an excerpt from a Le Devoir article written by Alexandre Shields that backs up what I was saying.

One thing is for sure: the federal government is promising to restore public trust. It will do this by “[m]aking decisions based on robust science, evidence and Indigenous traditional knowledge, [and] respecting Indigenous rights,” federal environment minister Catherine McKenna said on Thursday.

That article was published on February 9. Now look at what it says next.

The government's decisions will ultimately—ultimately being the key word—be based on the “national interest,” she added.

The government is going to consult scientists and indigenous peoples to give them the illusion that they are part of the process. However, it is the minister who will decide whether the project should proceed or not, depending on her mood and how close the ties between the proponents and the Liberal Party of Canada are. That is unacceptable.

As for confidence, I must say that I have a big problem with the current government's attitude. We need to work together to come up with measures for developing the environment in an intelligent way, balancing sustainable development with economic development, and taking a smart approach.

[Pam Goldsmith-Jones, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for Repentigny.

I am very pleased to join this important debate. Bill C-69 is a generational opportunity to realize the full promise of Canada through the resources of our land and the resourcefulness of Canadians. It is an opportunity to achieve a lasting balance. This is not easy, and this debate is most timely and most important.

We are at a pivotal moment. Climate change is the great challenge of our generation. The natural environment signals this to us, of course. It also plays a critical role in assisting us to manage climate change, and it will be the measure of the balance we achieve. The natural environment restores us in our daily lives. Our ingenuity and investment in clean technology and innovation are fundamental to the way forward as we continue to build success in the natural resources sector.

As we debate this bill, a new wave of resource development is before us, with more than 650 billion dollars' worth of projects either under construction or planned over the next 10 years. This is not insignificant. This means good, sustainable jobs and new economic opportunities for the middle class. Therefore, it is imperative we have a modern environmental and regulatory system, one that is open, transparent, and effective, a process that views public engagement as an asset, that is critical toward earning public confidence in government decision-making

This is what Bill C-69 achieves. Bill C-69 is based upon better, clearer rules in order to recognize and achieve greater protection of the environment, fish, and waterways; the centrality and importance of positive relations between Canada and indigenous peoples; collaboration between the federal government and the provinces and territories; more investment in Canada's natural resource sector; and finally, the importance of earning public trust every day.

Bill C-69 strives to integrate Canada's economic and environmental goals to advance indigenous reconciliation and to ensure that worthy projects go ahead in an environmentally sustainable manner. This cannot be accomplished on our own. We can work together better. The provinces and territories are key regulators. Indigenous peoples are central to Canada's economic development. Project proponents make key investments in our innovation economy. Bill C-69 anticipates and accommodates multiple players and multiple imperatives. It is an integrative bill that provides a strong foundation for decision-making.

Beginning with a commitment to the fundamental principle of one project, one assessment for major resource projects, Bill C-69 creates the way in which all parties are part of one process. Industry is asking for environmental processes that are timely and rooted in science, and regulatory reviews that are efficient and offer greater certainty. The general public and indigenous communities are asking for early and meaningful engagement to identify priorities. All of this would be coordinated by the new impact assessment agency.

Canadians are right to expect that impact assessments consider more than environmental impacts. This has been a long-standing criticism of the previous approach, and we should be proud of sustainability advocates from coast to coast to coast. Bill C-69 proposes that major new resource projects be viewed in the wider context of economic, social, and health impacts of ongoing development, as well as environmental impacts. The bill also expands the opportunities for Canadians to participate in the process, improving public funding for citizens to do so, and communicating our own efforts and decisions in language that is easy to understand and readily available.

Bill C-69 would help to renew and improve Canada's relationship with indigenous peoples, supporting new partnerships by improving the consultation process and ensuring clear accountabilities between indigenous peoples and the crown.

Finally, Bill C-69 would enhance how science and data are weighed, and how this contributes to a decision.

We believe that Bill C-69 responds directly to the reasonable expectation on the part of the general public, that policy-making should incorporate input from thorough public consultation, expert reviews, parliamentary studies, and open deliberation.

Bill C-69 is about environmental assessments and regulatory reviews that make resource development better and more sustainable. Our proposals for modernizing the National Energy Board build on this. Under the Canadian energy regulator act, the NEB would be replaced by a new federal energy regulator that would remain headquartered in Calgary, where it belongs. The new federal regulator would be based on the principles of modern, effective governance, more inclusive public engagement, greater indigenous participation, stronger safety and environmental protections, and more timely decisions.

The modern regulator would reflect Canada's changing energy needs and desires with an expanded mandate to review traditional and renewable sources of energy, including offshore, wind, and tidal. It would have the required independence and proper accountability for our clean-growth energy future in the 21st century.

Drawing upon the best energy data and the latest trends to inform its decisions, the new regulator would operate with shorter timelines for project reviews. For major new energy projects, the proposed Canadian energy regulator would collaborate with the new impact assessment agency to provide its own recommendations in a single final report. For all other projects, the new federal energy regulator would retain its existing responsibility to review.

Ultimately, our goal is to ensure that sound resource projects are built. We believe that this calls for a modern environmental and regulatory system that promotes common values and ensures shared benefits. Canada can achieve the public good by ensuring that projects are built in a responsible, timely, and transparent way, creating good jobs and a stronger middle class. We are rising to the challenges of our times by driving economic growth, building investment certainty, advancing indigenous reconciliation, and achieving sustainable solutions. We are restoring public confidence and combatting climate change. We are creating inclusive prosperity.

I am very proud to support this legislation, and I hope all members will join our government in approving better rules to build a better Canada.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is good to see a Newfoundlander in the chair. Now you have both places in this building sewn up, it appears.

Mr. Speaker, I just want to ask the member about public confidence in the energy regulation system. One small part of this bill deals with pipelines and the new Canada energy regulator. We had a situation in the Kinder Morgan decision where a ministerial panel travelled along the length of the pipeline, and that panel came up with six questions it said the government should answer before approving or not approving the pipeline. These were the first three: How do they square this with climate action? How do they do this without a comprehensive national energy strategy? How do they square it with UNDRIP?

I wonder if the parliamentary secretary can comment on the fact that most environmental lawyers across this country said that none of these questions were answered before Kinder Morgan was approved, and none of them are answered in this legislation.

[Pam Goldsmith-Jones, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to put today's debate in a broader context. When we formed government, it was very clear that there was a lack of confidence in the National Energy Board, there was a lack of confidence in the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act, there was a lack of confidence in the Navigation Protection Act, and there was a lack of confidence in the Fisheries Act. It had been shaken dramatically by the previous government.

Therefore, we put an interim process in place to be consultative, to be more inclusive of indigenous views, and to add conditions to ensure that these projects could go forward, because they were really a long way along in terms of making a final decision. We then took 14 months to consult coast to coast to coast and to bring together and integrate multiple players and multiple imperatives so that our decisions with regard to the natural resources sector were rooted in engagement, environmental protection, and indigenous reconciliation.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Environment and Climate Change has stated that one of the objectives of Bill C-69 is to increase investor confidence. I would ask the hon. parliamentary secretary to square that statement with the fact that the Minister of Environment, at the planning stage, has the ability to kill a major energy project before any economic analysis is done, before any environmental analysis is done, and before any scientific analysis is done. In other words, the minister can kill a pipeline project on the basis of a purely political decision. Could the parliamentary secretary explain just how that increases investor confidence?

[Pam Goldsmith-Jones, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it does not surprise me that the member opposite does not value the importance of early public engagement and early engagement with indigenous peoples. That is a fundamental commitment of our government, and that is what will allow us to not be surprised, to not be responsible for excluding important voices, and to begin these discussions on a strong foundation.

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, a primary focus of our government has been achieving the balance between the environment and the economy going together. I wonder if the member could expand on how Bill C-69 would help us accomplish that balance.

[Pam Goldsmith-Jones, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Mr. Speaker, first, the impact assessment act would replace the previous act by bringing together multiple interests and multiple impacts. Any environmental decision, any decision that is good for our economy, and any decision that is good for our society and public health must be one decision. We must share how we get to that end point across multiple interests, including provincial and territorial interests, indigenous interests, and the general public.

We do not see the environment and the economy at all as mutually exclusive. We see the best long-term interests being made with a view to sustainability.

[Monique Pauzé, Québec debout, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-69 has some interesting aspects, but it also raises questions and does not do much at all for Quebec.

For example, the government wants to put science back into decisions on the environment. That is great, especially after our experience with the Harper government, which saw science as the enemy. Obviously, this is a vast improvement. It shows there is an intention to protect the environment, but as always with the Liberals, intentions are more talking points than anything else. That does not amount to much unless it is written in black and white in legislation.

I will provide some examples. Do members remember the electoral reform promise that was dropped like a hot potato, or the promise to defend supply management at any cost?

The Liberals did not even want to renegotiate the transpacific partnership to defend our farmers. The government has not even changed its greenhouse gas reduction targets. Instead, it adopted the Conservatives' targets, which are well below those of all other countries.

I cannot get into every one of these issues in the few minutes that I have, but I will raise a few points that are important for Quebec.

In its current form, this bill is the opposite of what Quebeckers want. I firmly believe that instead of imposing these requirements on Quebec, the government should be doing the opposite, that is, it should let Quebeckers decide how to manage their province and protect their environment.

That was the reason why on February 1st I introduced Bill C-392, which goes in the opposite direction of Bill C-69. We have a very simple vision: what happens within our borders should be decided by us.

We firmly believe that citizens must have a say on projects that can negatively impact their health and their environment. I am definitely thinking of energy east.

The federal government is being pressured by companies that have interests in these projects. The government must balance the competing interests of provinces. I am thinking of the interests of Quebec as opposed to those of oil producing provinces. I am also thinking of British Columbia, which is in a dispute with Alberta over the Trans Mountain pipeline.

In both cases, one province assumes all the risks without reaping any of the benefits, while the opposite is true for the other province. It is unfair that citizens must suffer the consequences.

I will give another example. In 2016, IMTT-Quebec Inc. moved to the Port of Québec and polluted the entire neighbourhood of Limoilou with red dust. The residents of Limoilou found this dust on their balconies and clotheslines.

The Superior Court ruled that since the company was located in the Port of Québec, which is a federal jurisdiction, Quebec's environmental quality act did not apply. That was ridiculous. The air pollution was a nuisance for everyone in Limoilou and also compromised their health. We are talking about the health of parents and our children, not an administrative technicality. Not at all.

It is really quite simple, it is the provinces that have the expertise. Quebec must manage its health services. It is Quebec that pays the price for pollution and, even worse, it is the people who suffer the consequences. That is why Quebec must have the final say.

The complete opposite would be happening with Bill C-69. The federal government always has the final say. Even if a project is rejected by the Bureau d'audiences publiques sur l'environnement du Québec, or BAPE, the new impact assessment agency of Canada and the Minister of the Environment and Climate Change can always ignore our experts' findings and approve the project anyway, all under the guise of the national interest. I think we can all agree that this term is a little vague. It means nothing and can be invoked at any time, in any way, and for any project.

To us, national interest means the health and safety of our citizens. To others, it may mean corporate profits. The government will be able to make its decisions based on its own interests and the interests of its friends, as we have seen in other cases.

I am not the only one who is concerned about this arbitrary aspect of the bill. Greenpeace contacted me to say it is concerned about the vague assessment criteria that the government will use. The problem is that the government is creating an agency that ultimately serves no purpose, since the minister will reserve the right to override it.

The government claims that Bill C-69 will fix existing problems and help the environment, but with a little lobbying from wealthy corporations, destructive and polluting projects may still be allowed to move forward. The bill really emphasizes consulting the public, scientists, and indigenous peoples, but the minister will be able to approve a project even if the public is against it. Even if the entire province of Quebec opposes a project, the minister will still be able to move forward with it, invoking the national interest.

On another note, the bill missed the opportunity to remove a provision in the current act that makes Hydro-Québec subject to Ottawa. In the current legislation, Hydro-Québec must go through the National Energy Board to build international and interprovincial lines. Hydro-Québec must also have a permit to export electricity, and the Canadian government reserves the right to prevent Quebec from exporting its electricity surpluses.

The future Canadian energy commission will decide whether Quebec can export its surpluses after considering the impact those exports will have on the provinces, verifying whether anyone else has shown an interest in that electricity, and determining whether Hydro-Québec is making an effort to offer its electricity to Canadian buyers. Ottawa also reserves the right to refuse for other reasons. In short, Hydro-Québec is under federal control.

I have to say that the government has never abused that law in the past, but it could well decide to use the legislation to its advantage, thus harming Quebec. The minister could have taken the opportunity presented by this reform to remove all of those provisions. Unfortunately, she did not do so.

In short, this bill takes the wrong approach for Quebeckers. By giving herself the right to approve a project regardless of the results of the agency's assessment, the minister is negating any positive effects this bill might have had. The government could impose projects such as energy east on Quebeckers and they would have no way of preventing it. That is unacceptable. It is Quebec that has all the expertise and is assuming all the risks. The government needs to listen to Quebec and respect its choices. It is simple. This is simple, and I will repeat: what happens within our borders should be decided by us.

I would point out that the government did not even change its greenhouse gas reduction targets, which are the same as the Harper government's. That is why this bill is just an empty shell in our opinion, and that is why we will be voting against it. I encourage all my colleagues to vote in favour of my Bill C-392, which will give Quebec and the other provinces their say on projects that could have an impact on their environment and their people.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, again, as we get closer to the windup of this debate, I want to make sure that we are really clear on the fact that as a government we recognize that in dealing with getting energy to the markets, a responsible government ensures that there is an environmental process. This legislation, in good part, deals with that. This is something that Canadians as a whole want to see, a progressive government that takes the environment seriously and therefore brings in legislation of this nature which establishes a process that I believe Canadians would actually welcome.

Does the member have any thoughts in regard to possible, specific amendments to the legislation?

[Monique Pauzé, Québec debout, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague. I do not mind saying that we think federalism is the problem. The federal government always has to override provincial legislation. That is the problem.

Here is a good example. When the Saint-Germain smelter in Drummondville went bankrupt, the land it was on was contaminated. The federal government owned the land, and Quebec companies that applied to clean up the site did not get the contract because, federal laws being looser than Quebec laws, their services cost more. By these loose federal standards, the land is decontaminated, but by our standards, it is still contaminated, which means that we will never be able to use it.

It is always the same old problem. Federal laws override Quebec laws meant to protect the environment and agricultural land.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Mr. Speaker, during the member's speech, she alluded to the fact that the minister could, on a whim, essentially approve or veto a pipeline project. That seems to be part of the problem. In as much as Bill C-69 is a framework, what it is lacking are rules that would apply consistently to all major pipeline projects, and this creates uncertainty and a whole host of other issues.

I was wondering if the hon. member could comment on that.

[Monique Pauzé, Québec debout, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for his question. He highlighted the minister's veto power. That is what is important about this bill. Regardless of the laws and municipal bylaws, regardless of the public consultation, at the end of the day, the minister will always have the final say. This veto power is unacceptable.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech.

I gather that my colleague analyzed Bill C-69 through the lens of her own bill, which I hope I will get a chance to speak on, because it has some interesting aspects and raises questions.

To come back to the essence of Bill C-69, at the beginning of her speech, my colleague welcomed the idea of the Liberal government putting or wanting to put more emphasis on science. However, what happened under the Conservatives and is now continuing to happen under the Liberals is that every bill gives the ministers additional powers. In this case, although we do want to put more emphasis on science, the minister will have the power to save or kill a project with a snap of her fingers.

Is there not something of a disconnect between intention and execution?

[Monique Pauzé, Québec debout, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague. I share his concerns.

This bill does indeed have some positive aspects. For example, there will be an agency with some experience in environment. Furthermore, environmental, social, economic, and health effects will be considered, as will public participation. We have all that in Quebec. We have an environmental review board called the Bureau d'audiences publiques sur l'environnement that was created in the late 1970s under the René Lévesque government.

However, the minister will have veto power and will get to make the final decision, which is unacceptable.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-69 is the latest monstrosity to come out of the Liberal government, a bill that will cripple Canada's energy industry and eliminate tens of thousands of good-paying jobs across communities in Canada, particularly in my home province of Alberta. This entire process is yet another concession made by the Liberal government to radical environmental groups that will not stop until Canada's oil and gas industry is eliminated.

I reject the argument that Canada's National Energy Board was not capable of making independent decisions based upon critical public evidence and public interest. Canada's environmental assessment process is among the best in the world, because for generations, Canadians have placed a high emphasis on environmental stewardship and responsible energy development. This symbiotic relationship has allowed Canada to be innovative with environmental regulation and solutions. Our energy industry as regulated under the National Energy Board has resulted in such benefits as hundreds of billions in investments, tax revenue, jobs, and long-term prosperity in our country.

The new Liberal environmental review process threatens that foundation and our long-term prosperity. In fact, we are already seeing that happen today. Our oil prices have doubled over the past year and yet Bloomberg reports that in 2017, foreign direct investment dropped by 27%. This is primarily due to the toxic political environment that has scared away investment from Canada's energy sector.

The always shifting goalposts of the Liberals' social licence requirements are dictated by a United States funded radical environmental lobbies. They are not acting in our country's interests; they are acting in their own self-interest. While Canada appears to have been assigned to the role of a national park for the enjoyment of Americans, the United States has pushed forward with groundbreaking LNG projects and a rapidly expanding export market for shale petroleum. Canada is a hostage to American interests as our lifeblood flows down into America at a dramatic discount, only to be repackaged on American tankers at a premium market price. Canadians are doing the work and we are letting Americans get all the profits.

We live in an age of globalization and our decisions affect our neighbours. However, the Liberals have gone too far and I do not believe that other countries have the right to interfere in our energy regulation. Would the Americans, the Chinese, or the Russians entertain delegations from Canada that opposed their energy development? Never, and yet the Liberal government has eliminated the standing test, which allows only those with a direct connection to the project to have a say. Allowing foreign citizens and foreign interests to influence our energy industry policies and whether or not our regulators will allow infrastructure to be built is an attack on Canadian sovereignty.

In closing, Bill C-69 undermines our nation. It would consign us to the status of a national park for the enjoyment of people around the world, to the detriment of Canadian citizens, people who need jobs and the prosperity and stability that is created by a responsible energy sector.

It is time for the Liberals to go back to the drawing board and create policies and regulations that will actually get shovels in the ground so that our critical LNG and pipeline projects can get the support they deserve.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

It being 1:15 p.m., pursuant to order made Tuesday, February 27, it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the second reading stage of the bill now before the House.

Pursuant to Standing Order 69.1, the first question is on part 1 regarding the impact assessment act, part 2 regarding the Canadian energy regulator act, the title, the preamble, the schedule, and all clauses in part 4, except clauses 85, 186, 187, and 195.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt these elements of the bill?