House of Commons Hansard #325 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was affairs.

Topics

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated earlier, I would suggest that this place is for policy. What we debate in here is policy and how we shape policy so it can properly impact those who are receiving benefits in this case. If one wants to have a discussion about what in the policy triggers someone not getting benefits, let us have that discussion. However, to use an opportunity in an extremely tragic situation like this as a political tool is extremely disappointing, and I think Canadians see right through it.

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:25 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, right from the start, may I say that my heart and thoughts go out to the Campbell family for everything they have had to endure.

There is a certain grieving element to this that is often overlooked. For anyone to try to give the false impression, or try to imply, that members on all sides of the House would in any way try to take away from the grieving of the Campbell family would be unjust and unfair. I just wanted to express my condolences to the late Constable Campbell's family and friends, that very important circle, who have gone through what they had to endure.

Having said that, we do have a government that is committed to our Canadian Armed Forces and, in particular, our veterans and their families. We have seen the turning of a page with the last federal election. For many years, I sat on opposition benches. I am a veteran myself, having served for over three years in Alberta in the Canadian Armed Forces as an air traffic controller assistant. I had the opportunity to walk in many different parades with World War II veterans.

I understand and appreciate their many different illnesses, and the huge sense of pride in the service they provided to Canada, both during times of war and peace. Their service is ongoing, even upon their retirement. Their pensions and benefits are all very important things that we provide to veterans, because it is the right thing to do. That also includes the families.

As I have pointed out, for years I sat on the opposition benches and saw government actions that spoke much louder than the words we have heard today inside the chamber. Let me just cite a couple of examples that had a profoundly negative impact on our veterans.

One of the issues that was quite common at the time was the number of individuals working for Veterans Affairs who were losing their jobs. We are talking about hundreds of individuals who were let go under Stephen Harper at a significant cost, in terms of quality of service to our veterans. That needs to be recognized.

The other issue that was raised day after day was the issue of office closures in different regions of Canada. We had Veterans Affairs offices that were being closed. Veterans were being told to pick up the phone and call a number, as opposed to being able to have a face-to-face interaction. In my own community of Manitoba, the Brandon office was one of those offices that were closed.

Contrast that to what we have seen since the last federal election. We opened a new centre of excellence for post-traumatic stress disorder. We launched a joint suicide prevention strategy along with the Canadian Armed Forces. We reopened those nine offices that I referred to as having been closed across the country. We provided better front-line services through 10 regional offices. We operate 19 operational stress injury clinics, which include eight satellite clinics, to offer services closer to where veterans live. As I indicated, additionally, we hired over 450 individuals to help provide services for veterans. We instituted the pension for life program that will have a very strong and powerful impact for veterans.

These are some of the actions the government has taken over the last two and half to three years.

Moreover, in our budgets, we have seen dramatic increases to the tune of hundreds of millions of additional dollars being put into Veterans Affairs to support our vets in a very real and tangible way, via literally thousands of contacts with individuals who are dealing with mental health type of issues. We have seen tax breaks given to mental health services. Here, one of the things that comes to my mind is the service dogs, because we have seen the positive impact of those dogs, which can be a fairly costly, on our vets. There have been many actions taken by this government over the last two to three years, and I would contrast that any day with the previous 10 years of Stephen Harper.

Today a motion has been brought forward by the official opposition that I believe would have been better discussed and debated in question period, which the Conservatives have attempted to do, to provide commentary on the degree of effectiveness and cooperation there has been in looking at the issue. There is a difference between the Conservatives and the New Democrats when it comes to the issue of privacy for veterans.

The current minister stood in this place and explained with passion very clearly how important it is that we respect the privacy rights of our vets. Today in question period and earlier when he addressed this motion, he has consistently stood up for veterans to provide the assurance that this government will respect privacy.

The minister raises it for a good reason, because we saw how the Conservative government dealt with an issue of privacy and did a great disservice to Canadians. I want to refer to the individual in that regard, because it highlights the difference between the Conservatives and the Liberals when it comes to veterans and maintaining privacy.

Many of us might recall Sean Bruyea. He had concerns with regard to the Conservative government in 2010. He raised a number of issues and the minister at the time asked for some reports. Part of those reports were the medical records of Mr. Bruyea. Those records ultimately were leaked in one form or another to the media, where there were some reports done. I believe it was an attempt to ultimately discredit that veteran. I would argue that the government of the day did not do what it was supposed to do, which was to stand by our vets and protect their privacy.

At the end of the day, the Harper government ended up apologizing for violating the privacy of that veteran. Fast forward to today where the minister clearly indicated that what we are really talking about is the privacy of a veteran. The message he is sending to veterans in all regions of our country is that we have a government that will stand by our vets and respect their privacy, that there will not be a leak from this government.

If we compare what we have done for our veterans in two to three years with the 10-plus years of the Conservatives, veterans will understand and appreciate that this government has been there for them in a very real and tangible way and that this is a government that will stand up for the privacy of our veterans and their records.

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB

Mr. Speaker, the member for Winnipeg North just threw some stuff in there that has to be addressed.

He did not address the lack of leadership by the minister. When the Minister of Veterans Affairs was in here getting bombarded by questions and refused to take responsibility for why Chris Garnier was receiving veterans benefits, Veterans Affairs Canada actually rescinded the policy, yet the minister refused to back down. That is a lack of leadership.

The member for Winnipeg North talks about the PTSD service dogs. Veterans Affairs cancelled the program on September 18. It said it was no longer in place because not enough research had been done on the file. All the research shows that there has been a significant reduction in PTSD among veterans using service dogs.

He talks about all the money the Liberals are spending. Guess what? They have allowed $372 million in veterans funding to lapse.

The list goes on. He talked about veteran Sean Bruyea. He failed to mention that Sean Bruyea is suing the Minister of Veterans Affairs for defamation of character.

The member gets up here and yells and screams all the time. However, the fact is, as a veteran, all he wears is a partisan hat when he is in the House, and that has to end.

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, if the member were to review his comments and contrast them with the budget, the budget document states that there was an expansion of the medical tax break for these specialty dogs. That directly contradicts what the member just said.

He just said that the minister has not been doing his job on this issue. He is implying that. The minister's responsibility is to the veterans of Canada and protecting their rights and privacy.

The member might not like the manner in which I present myself at times, because I am quite passionate on a wide spectrum of different issues. However, having served in the Canadian Forces, even with some of these issues, I am very proud to have been a member of the forces.

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Mr. Speaker, we just learned that the Liberal government has now decided to take a sledgehammer approach to this situation. It has not only revoked services for Mr. Garnier, which we support, as it is an outrageous case, but it has also now taken away all services from the families of incarcerated veterans. This does not take into account that there may be family members who are incarcerated because they had fallen afoul of the law as a direct result of mental illness or PTSD related to their experience as a veteran and who might have come home with some real and difficult challenges. The Liberals have taken a sledgehammer approach to this without analysis, without testimony at committee and without examining it properly.

We in the NDP brought forward questions through a letter. We took that approach because we know this is a sensitive issue and we did not want to see veterans lose their services and those of their families, which they fought so hard for. This is how the government has responded. It has mishandled this situation terribly from the get-go. The minister should have intervened early on, cited this as a unique case and fixed it. Instead, the government has just made a terrible mess.

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, on the one hand we have the Conservatives who are saying one thing, and on the other hand we now have the NDP saying something completely different.

The minister initially and consistently since then has indicated that he is working with his departmental officials to get a better understanding of the circumstances, while at the same time respecting the privacy of a veteran. I would argue that is the responsible and right thing to do. The minister is in fact on top of this particular file, and ultimately the government will move forward in respecting our veterans. Every budget and piece of legislation of ours has demonstrated that this government values and respects our veterans and their family members.

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

The time has expired for questions and comments. I note there are members trying to participate in this particular part of the debate. We will make every effort to make sure that happens in the next round.

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time speaking to this important issue with my colleague from Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke.

I rise today to speak to our Conservative opposition motion regarding the outrageous and unjust payment of veterans benefits to cover post-traumatic stress disorder treatment for a convicted second-degree murderer.

My heart is with the family of officer Campbell. The murder of a loved one is something a family can never get over. Although justice has been served in the sentence of the loved one's killer, knowing this criminal has received benefits that are intended for veterans must be painful.

It is painful for me to talk about this issue as well. It is not something that I gladly rise to speak about today, but it is serious and it needs to be addressed. The Liberal government has failed to address this issue adequately.

It has been known for several weeks now that a convicted killer who has never served in the Canadian forces is receiving benefits intended for veterans. A veteran is involved, and we certainly want to respect the privacy of this individual and the family, but we cannot use that right to privacy to bypass the fundamental principle that veterans benefits are for veterans and their families, not for a convicted killer who has never served a day in his life.

There has been some movement on this issue over the last couple of hours, but a lot of my speech still applies.

I am proud to represent many communities that have significant numbers of military personnel and their families. Many of these soldiers choose to retire in my area after their years of service.They are looking for a quiet place to settle down, on a country acreage or in a small town. I have had the privilege of meeting with many of these veterans to discuss issues like their benefits. I am happy to call many of them my friends and my dearest supporters.

Today I am going to speak about two veterans I have had the opportunity to get to know over the past year. They have had a really big impact on me.

Many members in the House know of Major Mark Campbell, an infantry officer who lost both of his legs to an IED in Afghanistan. He and his comrades took the federal government to court again and again, finally appealing to the Supreme Court, which refused to hear their case. It was then that they realized that the party that had promised to never take a veteran to court to fight over benefits had broken its promise.

I bring up this example because in the past few weeks we have seen a government, a Prime Minister and his Minister of Veterans Affairs absolutely stonewall this Parliament, even in some cases refusing to answer questions and denigrating the opposition for having the audacity to hold them accountable.

They claim they are standing up for a veteran and that we should not be speaking out on this outrageous decision from Veterans Affairs for a killer who is receiving benefits and yet has never served.

Why is the Liberal government fighting against our veterans so fiercely in our courts and yet in the House defending so vigorously someone who has never served?

I often say in my riding that I am running because I want to put victims and their families first, not criminals, but too often it seems that the Liberals put criminals first, not victims and their families.

Many members in the House will also remember that back in February, when the Prime Minister came to Edmonton, he took questions from a constituent of mine, former corporal and Afghanistan veteran Brock Blaszczyk. Brock told the Prime Minister that he was ready to be killed in action, but he was not ready for his government to turn its back on him. Some of that is on us as Conservatives, but a lot of it is also on the Liberal government. The Prime Minister's response was to tell Brock that veterans “are asking for more than we can give right now”.

Today we see that resources that should be going to our veterans are being diverted inappropriately to someone who has never served, someone who, even if he had served, would not be eligible for these benefits because he would have been dishonourably discharged for his crime.

Why does the Prime Minister tell our veterans they “are asking for more than we can give”, while holding out his hand to provide for those who are not entitled to these benefits?

When this issue came up, I decided to text Brock to ask him what he thought. He messaged me back later, saying, “This is another slap in the face to veterans. The government says that every claim is treated on a case-by-case basis, but what could the case have been for a 30-year-old cop killer who never served?”

Brock has been continually denied his full benefits from Veterans Affairs, despite having lost a leg, suffering 55% soft tissue loss, 80% nerve damage in his other leg, and 30% nerve damage in his arm, and being diagnosed with PTSD from his time serving his country in Afghanistan.

Last week, the Prime Minister rose in the House to state that when members serve, their families serve with them. This is something I absolutely agree with. It is absolutely true. However, no member of the Canadian Forces who murdered a police officer, or anyone for that matter, who hid the body of their victim and who then was even caught in the process of trying to make it impossible to find the body, would be eligible for those benefits. No one who served would be given those benefits. Why should someone who has never served be treated better?

This brings me to my final example. This extraordinary woman is not a veteran herself, and her husband did not serve in the Canadian Forces. Nonetheless, he gave his life in service as a member of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. This man is the late Constable David Wynn from St. Albert, Alberta, which is just next to my riding in Sturgeon River—Parkland. His wife's name is Shelly MacInnis-Wynn. Shelly and I have known each other for a couple of years now, and despite the crime that was committed against her and her family, she has never backed down from saying what needs to be said.

The Prime Minister says that when members serve, their families serve with them. If the Prime Minister is true to his word, why does Shelly have to fight this government for funding to cover the cost of her PTSD treatments from the brutal murder of her husband that fateful day? Has she not given enough? Why does she have to fight, while this killer gets his benefits up front? Should a victim not be given priority?

Why is it that the Liberals will fight so hard to ensure that all criminals get their payout and receive their benefits, yet they throw the book at and stymie the needs of victims' families with endless bureaucracy? It is perverse. It defies logic and common sense.

Speaking for my constituents, I call on the Liberals to do the right thing, to not hide behind sympathy or some legal bafflegab but instead take action. Today, we have seen some action, but we need to get more clarity on that action. I call on them to rescind his benefits, which are benefits for veterans, not for criminals. Give him what he is due as a criminal in our justice system, but do not give him what he has not earned through service to our nation.

Immediately after this, I hope the government will work immediately to ensure that no victim and no victim's family has to fight the bureaucracy for the benefits they deserve. I call on the Liberals to stand up for victims, stand up for their families, do the right thing, rescind these benefits and get the job done.

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC

Mr. Speaker, I have many veterans in my riding. Actually, today is the birthday of one of them. I want to wish a happy birthday to Max. This summer, Max went to a camp called Camp My Way, where he had a great experience dealing with the issues he has around his post-traumatic stress disorder.

The reality for Max is that he had to fundraise to get there. He is currently working with my office because of the deeply powerful impact that Camp My Way had on his life.

All of us in the House understand that this is a devastating thing we are discussing here today, but we have to look at the reality that Veterans Affairs has lapsed spending of over $300 million. Could the member share with the House a bit about what that really means for supporting our veterans in this country?

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Mr. Speaker, I also want to wish happy birthday to the hon. member's constituent, Max. As someone who has also served in the Canadian Forces, when we see someone who has put themselves out there to serve our country, we want to ensure they get the best possible treatment they can get.

One of the things we need to recognize is that all treatment needs to be veteran led, in the sense that most of the time, the veteran is the best person to know what would work best for him or her. We have seen that with the service dog and equine programs, and I certainly see a lot of potential with the camp my colleague mentioned. We need to refocus and reorient so it is veteran-led treatment.

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to focus on the last sentence of the member's presentation, where he said, “Stand up for veterans.”

I am curious how he can say something like that, when over 10 years all the Conservative government did was strip away benefits and services from veterans. The Conservatives killed the lifetime pensions for veterans, closed nine offices, fired 900 employees from Veterans Affairs and had to have the courts order them to pay veterans the money they were owed. In fact, at the time, Judge Robert Barnes said that the clawbacks created by the Conservative government had a “particularly harsh effect on the most seriously disabled CF members”, and that he rejected the measures “unreservedly”.

How can the member say we need to stand up for veterans in Canada, when the record of the Conservative government over 10 years was so abysmal?

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Mr. Speaker, it takes a lot to admit when one is wrong. Conservatives did some great things for our veterans, especially in our final years, fixing a lot of the problems that had to be fixed.

However, for the government to completely abdicate any responsibility for its actions in this case is just arrogant. The Liberals should recognize their own faults. Humility is the beginning of wisdom. If the government starts showing some humility, maybe it will get something done for our veterans.

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am a little concerned about the reality of selective memory in this place.

As members know, we have a covenant with our veterans, in terms of their unlimited liability. I would like to remind the House that the Conservatives took Equitas to court for fighting for that unlimited liability. As has been mentioned, the Liberals continued that court case. They even used the same lawyers as the Conservatives. However, the Conservatives started it.

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Mr. Speaker, I am certain the member's question comes from a well-intentioned place. However, she may be a little confused about the concept of unlimited liability, which I certainly know very well from my position in the forces. Soldiers are willing to give everything for their country when they put on that uniform. That is something that is absolutely sacred.

When a government comes along, it needs to fulfill its obligations to our veterans. All governments certainly try their best, but there has been a lot of falling short. We need to recognize that and rectify those things.

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Mr. Speaker, as the member of Parliament for the great riding of Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke in the upper Ottawa Valley, home to Garrison Petawawa, training ground of the warrior, I am pleased to add my voice to the groundswell of Canadians demanding veterans benefits for veterans and their deserving family members. It is absolutely unbelievable that the current Liberal government cries poverty when it comes to paying out funds that have already been set aside for veterans, but can find $10.5 million to hand out to a confessed soldier murderer. The federal government has no problem paying out funds earmarked for veterans to a convicted cop killer, but denies veterans benefits.

A veteran in Edmonton said, “I was prepared to be killed in action. What I wasn't prepared for, Mr. Prime Minister, is Canada turning its back on me.” The Prime Minister's party response was that veterans are asking for more than he can give them right now. It was appalling. Actually, what veterans are asking for is what the Prime Minister promised them in terms of pain, suffering and incapacity payment. Most if not all veterans who might qualify for such benefits under the Liberal April 2019 election bribe plan will receive less than under the programs that were available from the former Conservative government.

It is sad to see the members for Kanata—Carleton and Orléans, as former Canadian Forces members, supporting their party's decision to refuse to fund worthwhile programs like service dogs for veterans. Study after study has shown service dogs help veterans with PTSD and so much more. Despite all the evidence, which I know from working with veterans and sharing their success stories about service dogs, this cold, callous Prime Minister is out of touch when he claims veterans are asking for too much.

The benefits are real. I led the initiative to have service dogs matched with veterans in Canada. I saw the benefits first-hand when a friend and former soldier's service dog not only assisted him as a seeing-eye dog for his blindness, but sensed and stopped PTSD reactions to sights, smells and sounds. This is a treatment that is drug-free. Despite all the evidence, the Liberal Party still refuses to fund service dogs. That means veterans who need service dogs are forced to rely on the charity of others, since the combined training of the dog and master can cost upward of $40,000. The federal government policy on veterans is that there are veterans funds for terrorists and cop killers and there is no money for veterans. It is shameful. Many may never get their service dogs; others have to wait years. Veterans who put their lives on the line for Canada should not have to wait. It is just not right.

My riding of Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke is home to the Joan D. Bray Veteran Learning Centre at Willis College in Arnprior. The centre, through the financial generosity of college president, Rima Aristocrat, pioneered the veteran-friendly transition program. The program, developed by Willis College Arnprior campus manager Bernard Doyle, with the help of veterans, is a place where changing technology is helping veterans. Its graduates fill key positions in cybersecurity. This is an example of the private sector responding to the needs of veterans. This is not the approach the federal government takes to veterans' needs. What a cruel trick to play on veterans to announce a plan or some other program that few if any quality for, and to spend veterans funds on empty storefronts in government ridings and hope enough time will pass that veterans will forget what they were originally promised.

Budget 2016 marked the beginning of a second Liberal era of darkness for Canada's women and men in the Canadian Armed Forces. In my riding, which includes Garrison Petawawa, Canada's largest army base, we remember the decade of darkness that came after the political decision to scapegoat and disband the Canadian Airborne Regiment and the deep cuts in defence spending that followed that politically motivated decision. The decision to relocate or re-profile, which is Liberal-speak for cut, $8.5 billion in defence allocations in budget 2017 in addition to previous cuts, confirms the worst fears of our women and men in uniform.

Canada's veterans are being told that they should just wait and that tomorrow and the next budget will fix everything. It is the “tomorrow” budget, but tomorrow never comes. It is a false economy to plan on denying veterans benefits with the expectation the veterans will eventually give up fighting for what they are entitled to, or die off from their injuries.

Last year in this House, I posed a question to the Prime Minister on behalf of Warrant Officer Roger Perreault, a veteran in the Canadian Armed Forces, regarding the decision to reward terrorists who maim and kill Canadian soldiers, while denying compensation to soldiers injured in roadside bomb attacks.

Retired Warrant Officer Roger Perreault is an Afghan veteran who served his country honourably. His great-grandfather was an engineer in the First World War. Roger carried his great-grandfather's cap badge for good luck to Afghanistan. In addition to serving in Afghanistan, he served twice in Bosnia and three special duty areas over a span of 27 years. He was medically released from the military in 2017.

Retired Warrant Officer Roger Perreault was injured in 2006 in a blast from an improvised explosive device while serving in Afghanistan. He has had three back surgeries, two hip replacements and other complications. His release was timed to take place two days before the government's fake news announcement that all support programs would be in place for veterans before an injured soldier was discharged from the military. Nothing was in place for Roger and his family.

Now released from the military, retired Warrant Officer Perreault is being denied the critical injury benefit by veterans affairs, being told that, at age 47, his injuries are the result of his body wearing out, ignoring the injuries of the IED blast. Today, veteran Warrant Officer Roger Perreault informs me that the Veterans Review and Appeal Board has denied his appeal of the original decision, which denied him the critical injury benefit he obviously deserves.

What is most appalling about the latest denial is the cavalier dismissal of the attending medical professional's assessment. Attacking the credibility of a doctor who treated Warrant Officer Perreault shows how low the government will stoop to deny a veteran benefits. Attacking a medical professional who treated Roger demonstrates the extremes the government will go to just to deny a veteran help.

The Prime Minister should be ashamed that a Canadian veteran, who sacrificed his health and well-being of his family, is treated in such a shoddy fashion. Retired Warrant Officer Roger Perreault's wife, Fran, remembers his departure every day very clearly because her family would never be the same again. She said:

On Aug. 1, I put one man on that bus. Nov. 3, a different man came home. He looked like my husband. He talked like my husband. But it wasn't my husband. Part of him is still over there somewhere and I don't know if I'll ever get it back.

On the evening of October 7, 2006, while on mission in Afghanistan, Warrant Officer Roger Perreault was on a routine patrol in a LAV III. He had stopped behind another LAV III, and dismounted when a large explosion ripped the left side of the LAV, throwing him to the ground. While at the time Roger considered himself lucky to have survived the explosion, several of his close comrades in arms were not so lucky. Trooper Mark Andrew Wilson of the Royal Canadian Dragoons died that day.

On September 3, 2006, Sergeant Shane Hank Stachnik, from Roger's 2 Combat Engineer Regiment, Warrant Officer Richard Francis Nolan and Warrant Officer Frank Robert Mellish of the Royal Canadian Regiment died during a Taliban assault. Roger is haunted by memories of those fallen comrades.

Now, considering the treatment he is receiving from his own government, he is not so sure who was the lucky one. Additional existing and future benefits have highly restrictive criteria. The Liberals have made it so difficult to qualify for the critical injury benefit that, by their own estimates, only six veterans per year will qualify going forward.

Worst of all, a critical injury benefit that would make a real difference in the life of this injured veteran and his family is a pittance in comparison to the $10.5 million paid out to a confessed terrorist who built IEDs as part of his mission to kill Canadian soldiers.

Warrant Officer Perreault and other Afghanistan veterans are the real Canadian heroes. Let us start treating them like heroes.

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for her passion with regard to veterans. I know she has a military base in her riding and is passionate about the subject, but she talks about instances going back to 2006. Sometimes we want to forget about the previous government especially since veterans offices were shuttered and programs were cut.

Does she want to comment on the additional $10 billion that has been spent by this government for veterans and the priority that this government has taken after 10 years of Stephen Harper and what his government did?

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Mr. Speaker, I will do even better. I will conclude my remarks in answer to his question by quoting from the Liberal Party candidate I defeated in the last federal election and what he now has to say on social media about the Prime Minister.

He said, “Three years ago, I decided to seek the Liberal nomination for the candidacy in Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke. My only political goal was to play a role in assuring that no other brave Canadian soldier would be penalized at home due to their service. I was inspired by the Prime Minister's promises to fix things. I was inspired by the presence of other veterans lining up to win nominations for the Liberals. I legitimately felt hopeful for the first time in a long time. I believed them. Now I realize that I was wrong. The Prime Minister recently stated that Canadian veterans want more than Canada can give. I stood on a stage behind the Prime Minister in August of 2015 when he made a promise to veterans, a promise which was obviously, in retrospect, a political bargaining chip. I have first-hand experience as a service member, stakeholder, and party member with respect to the way our military is regarded and treated. At some of the highest levels I have personally witnessed the way in which our injured and ill are regarded with skepticism, suspicion, and cynicism by members of the governing party. It needs to end now.”

Veterans benefits for veterans.

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Mr. Speaker, when we first started this process, when we learned about the Garnier case, veterans and Canadians were outraged. They wanted this fixed. We talked to veterans organizations, but they are also concerned about the ramifications of fixing this. They did not want it to affect veterans and their families' benefits, benefits that they fought so hard for.

We just learned this afternoon that the Liberals have decided to take the sledgehammer approach to this. They have decided to cut all benefits for all family members of veterans who are incarcerated regardless of the crime, for example, if someone had small amounts of marijuana or whether the crime, or PTSD or a mental health illness was a direct result of the member's service. The Liberals decided to take away all of their benefits.

I wish that the Liberals had taken an approach that was more inclusive and examined the situation. Clearly they had to deal with the Garnier situation, but to just take a blanket approach to this situation and take all benefits from family members who might be affected by a veteran's service is concerning to me.

I wonder if the member supports the Liberal decision to take away benefits from all veterans' family members who are incarcerated.

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have to put some thought into that, but it sounds like what the Liberals always do. Instead of correcting their missteps and their wrongdoing, they punish others for it. This is the way that they have treated veterans in the past and this is what they continue to do going forward.

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

Mr. Speaker, that was a cryptic answer to the previous question, so I will ask it again. Under what circumstances, under what level of crime or what level of incarceration should individuals have their benefits taken away? If the minister went too far, could the hon. member please describe the Conservatives' policy plan and what they see going forward?

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would love to explain what our policy plan is, but he will see it soon enough. As soon as the 2019 election is over, we will bring forth all of our policy initiatives, including one that will benefit veterans instead of taking away from them.

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for New Westminster—Burnaby.

I am thankful for the chance to once again speak about veterans and our Canadian Armed Forces personnel. It was an honour to serve as NDP critic for Veterans Affairs, and I am truly grateful for the dedication to veterans by the current critic, the member for Courtenay—Alberni.

In my several years as critic and deputy critic, I learned that veterans were motivated by a deep love for Canada, loyalty to the service they considered a profound privilege, their families and a deep sense of justice. Veterans understand justice. It is part of their DNA. They want it for the civilian population they serve in war and in peace. They want it for those trampled by violence, aggression and dictatorial governments. They want it for themselves and their families.

In all the years I have been in this place, there has been a constant and recurring theme regarding how our veterans have been left behind and forgotten by the current and previous governments.

The covenant between the Canadian government and its veterans is considered an unlimited liability rather than providing comfort and care for the sacrifice of life in protecting our country. Veterans have been forced to take the current and previous governments to court to defend and maintain lifetime pensions. This is the result of Veterans Affairs Canada's failure to provide prompt service and benefits. When a dispute arises, Veterans Affairs systematically leaves veterans to the morass of the Veterans Review and Appeal Board.

In my own tenure as critic, I became aware of the heart-wrenching case of one young man whose mother contacted my office. Her son suffers from PTSD as a result of his service in the Canadian Armed Forces and over the past several months he has presented as a suicide risk. His medical release has been held up for months by VAC, despite his desperate situation. The young man in question has just under 10 years of service. He feels that VAC is delaying help to get rid of him. Less than 10 years of service significantly affects his pension. I cannot help but be reminded of the service personnel being pushed out just before they were entitled to a pension.

The case is further complicated by the impacts this young man experienced as a result of the cocktail of drugs he was prescribed. The drugs caused him to experience sleeplessness, stress, disorientation, lethargy and depression. Because he is still in the military, the health plan does not cover the cost of his medical marijuana prescription. He has undergone 29 medication changes since his initial diagnosis and reports that each of the high-powered drugs has been worse than the last. The medical marijuana has helped him immensely. He reports that he has finally slept fully for the first time in three years.

However, there is, as I previously mentioned, a catch because the military health plan does not cover the cost of medical marijuana. VAC will cover the cost once he is medically released, so he is not being released.

His reassessment went back to VAC on May 3, and still remains at level one. This young man is in panic mode. He and many others on the base believe VAC is delaying claims so it does not have to make payouts up front. However, this individual is fortunate. He has family advocating for him. Not every abandoned serviceman or woman has such advocacy. He is lucky to have a forceful mother.

Veterans Affairs Canada has not provided this young man the help he needs, either in the past when my office contacted it or now months later. This is the same mother who confronted the Minister of Veterans Affairs at the legion convention in Winnipeg last August to plead for her son. The minister announced then that he had empowered his front-line workers to get the job done. The job is not getting done by the government. Veterans, CF personnel and their families continue to suffer. We demand better.

It is important to view this through the lens of the Prime Minister's mandate letter to the Minister of Veterans Affairs. It states:

Veterans and their families have earned our respect and gratitude. Veterans should not have to fight their own government for the support and compensation they have earned. As Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence, your overarching goal will be to ensure that our government lives up to our sacred obligation to Veterans and their families. I expect you to ensure that Veterans receive the respect, support, care, and economic opportunities they deserve. You will ensure that we honour the service of our Veterans and provide new career opportunities, make it easier for Veterans to access services--including mental health services--and do more to support the families of Canada’s Veterans.

That is a lovely letter and it expresses a lovely sentiment. However, pretty words and flowery promises mean nothing when they are not supported by action, real and substantive change that results in better access to services for our miliary personnel and veterans who have given themselves in service and have every right to expect the government to live up to its side of the covenant.

Therefore, let us look at the Liberal promises to veterans and the reality that exist, despite those promises.

The Liberals promised an education in training benefits of up to $80,000 in funding to further education, to begin a new track or to be used for career or personal development courses in order to give veterans purpose and help them feel satisfied with their main post-military job or activity. In reality, the program is so insufficiently staffed and wretchedly underfunded that it cannot provide any substantive or lasting benefits to veterans trying to access it.

The government promised to reopen Veterans Affairs service offices that had been closed by the previous Conservative government. It was reported by Global News, on September 20:

After nearly three years in power, the Liberals have not followed through with a pledge to ensure there is an adequate number of caseworkers to help veterans make the transition to civilian life

The Prime Minister promised the government would provide one case worker for every 25 veterans. However, the ratio remains too high at 33:1. In some regions of the country it is 1:42, in cities like Kingston, Thunder Bay and Calgary. That is unacceptable.

With their term running out next year, the Liberals are only halfway to meeting their goals. They promised to reestablish lifelong pensions as an option for veterans. Instead, as eloquently outlined by veteran Sean Bruyea in his January piece for the CBC, “the government merely resurrected ghosts of Christmases past with a hodgepodge of benefits that amount to recycled, remodelled and repackaged programs that already exist.” Upon the death of a veteran, the spouse receives nothing. If what had been delivered were a real pension, the spouse would receive a benefit.

The Liberals promised to eliminate the clawback of benefits for veterans who married after the age of 60, which is the infamous “gold diggers clause”. That has not happened, The elderly spouses in the country, some of whom have loved and cared for a veteran for 20 or 25 years, are terrified of the poverty they will face because the Liberals failed them too.

The government promised to deliver a high standard of service and care for veterans requiring medical assistance. 1 wish I could tell my colleagues that the situation I described earlier of a mother contacting my office in desperate need of help for her son is not an isolated one. However, it is not.

While the Liberals recycle their promises, the blunt truth is that they have left $372 million unspent, which was money earmarked for veterans and their families. As a result, we see veterans and their families suffering, without access to medical care and resources, in fear that their family might be the next to lose a loved one to suicide as a result of negligence on the part of the government.

Therefore, we have the Conservative motion before the House about a truly tragic and heartbreaking murder and the unimaginable pain suffered by the victim's family. By all means, the perpetrator needs mental health care from Correction Service of Canada, not Veterans Affairs.

We must not forget, and veterans will never forget, the harm they and their families have suffered under the Liberal government as well as the previous Conservative government. Those same Conservative members who have brought forward this motion cut Veterans Affairs in their mandate. lt was a cut of 5% right across the board. Apparently, like the Prime Minister, they too felt they did not have enough money to support veterans. They did have money for fake lakes, CEO tax breaks, enough to take veterans to court, enough to ship the former prime minister's limo to India, to the tune of a $1 million, and enough to leave $1.1 billion allocated for veterans unspent. However, there was no money for veterans services, no money for case workers and no money for the spouses and children left without real help.

Let us all remember the conduct and the failures of both these parties. Let us remember it, let us take them to task, and let us determine how best and honourably we can serve veterans.

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

NDP

Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would really like to thank my colleague from London—Fanshawe for all of her hard work to advocate for and speak for veterans in the House when they feel they have been mistreated by the previous Conservative government and the current Liberal government. I commend her on her work. She is deeply respected in the veterans community. Her voice is desperately needed in this conversation today.

The Liberals have failed veterans. They failed to meet their target to have an adequate number of case managers to even help veterans, as my colleague mentioned. Beyond the lack of front-line services, veterans have to wait longer to find out if they qualify for benefits, and this growing backlog is unacceptable.

The Liberals are going back on their election commitment and are failing to live up to the service standards, while not spending money approved by Parliament to help veterans. The money is there. However, it is not being spent by the Liberals. As the opposition, the Liberals blasted Stephen Harper for doing the exact same thing.

Could the member for London—Fanshawe comment on the hypocrisy of this?

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Mr. Speaker, I referenced earlier this very strange amnesia that takes over in this place, with one party forgetting what another party has done. It is indeed hypocritical.

My colleague mentioned the length of time it was taking to provide services for veterans. They are promised that within 16 weeks they are going to get services and help. Imagine if they were suicidal? Would they still be alive at the end of 16 weeks. Even worse, it is taking 29 and 32 weeks before veterans are getting help. Even at that, very often it is just not adequate.

Therefore, I am very concerned and disappointed that this Parliament, that the House and that those governments have not seen fit to look after our veterans.

Opposition Motion—Veterans AffairsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

Mr. Speaker, I certainly agree with some components of the member's speech. However, I would need more time to talk about some of the other issues that she has brought up.

With respect to the motion we are looking at today, it sounded like she was going to support our position. A convicted murderer getting access to veterans benefits when he has never served is unusual and does not sit well with the Canadian public.

Had the minister initially responded appropriately to this travesty, we would probably not be having this debate today. The fact that the Liberals continue to put forward all sorts of inappropriate arguments is the reason why we are here today.