House of Commons Hansard #383 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was language.

Topics

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

5:40 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

I would remind the member to address her question to the Chair. She said “you mentioned”, and I did not mention.

The hon. member for Cariboo—Prince George.

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

5:40 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Madam Speaker, Prime Minister Harper, in his historic apology on June 11, 2008, recognized that our first nations, Inuit and Métis languages and cultural practices were prohibited in these schools. He acknowledged the wrongs that were done in the past. He even said the following in his statement:

The government now recognizes that the consequences of the Indian residential schools policy were profoundly negative and that this policy has had a lasting and damaging impact on aboriginal culture, heritage and language.

To our hon. colleagues across the way who had an opportunity to speak, I offer this. There are 338 members of Parliament in this House. Madam Speaker, this House does not belong to you, and it does not belong to me. There are members of Parliament on this side of the House, such as the a former fisheries minister, the member for Nunavut, who wish to speak to this. There are colleagues on the New Democrat benches as well who wish to speak to this. However, shamefully, the government has forced time allocation.

I will offer this as well. It was the Prime Minister, then the member for Papineau, who, on day 10 of the 2015 election campaign, said that he would not resort to parliamentary tricks such as time allocation to force legislation through. That is just another broken campaign promise.

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

Gary Anandasangaree Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Multiculturalism (Multiculturalism), Lib.

Madam Speaker, through you, I want to thank my friend from Cariboo—Prince George for his passionate speech on this issue. I do not doubt his sincerity with respect to supporting this legislation and the preservation of indigenous languages.

I was in his riding last month and heard quite a bit about Elder Gouchie, who was one of the last five speakers of the Lheidli T'enneh's dialect. It could be three, but certainly it is a number that puts a language group in very real danger of extinction. We know the urgency. The urgency has existed for decades. This government has worked for the last two years consistently, through collaboration with indigenous organizations and through over 1,200 consultations, to come up with this bill.

My advice is that we get on with it and get this bill passed. A lot of work can be done in committee. I would invite the member to committee to advance the issues he has on this issue.

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Madam Speaker, the government likes to talk about its consultations, yet we still have first nations saying that they have not had the opportunity to be consulted. We know that committees do great work. However, these first nation communities have to try to convey that in 10 minutes. Only through full debate can we bring their voices to Parliament, and that is what we are here to do. Some things just should not be rushed. We need to get it right. It is so important.

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON

Madam Speaker, I want to thank all my colleagues who are here, and in particular, I want to thank my colleague who just spoke, the member for Cariboo—Prince George. I also want to thank my colleague from Nunavut for being here. Some of the comments I will be making today relate to the Inuktut language and may be of interest to him. If he gets the chance to ask a question or raise a comment, it would be nice if all of us would extend him a little extra time, given the importance of the language and that he personally represents the majority of its speakers in this country.

The goal of a language law, or any law, ought to be twofold. It is always to remediate a wrong. It ought to open-hearted in its approach, and we ought to go in with open eyes as to a clear setting of achievable, realistic goals. To fail to be open-hearted is to, quite frankly, be self-serving, even sinister. To fail to go in with open eyes as to the practicalities one is dealing with ensures one's own defeat.

This legislation, on the whole, is good, but it is imperfect on both those measures. I want to talk a little about this, with particular reference to the problem of the Inuktitut language and the fact that there is not complete support in the Inuktitut-speaking community for this legislation. This indicates that while good in many respects, the legislation is imperfect. It is imperfect because it targets one problem, where speakers of Inuktitut have a separate problem that is not being addressed in the legislation. I turn now to that discussion.

The problem of the decline of indigenous languages in Canada is not a new problem. It was identified a very long time ago and has been addressed by StatsCan in a number of interesting surveys over the years. I am looking at a document from 2007 that points out that the number of people speaking an indigenous language as their first language was in decline. It was quite a rapid decline. Between 1996 and 2001, the percentage of the indigenous population able to conduct a conversation in an indigenous language went from 29% to 24%. The number of people having an indigenous language as their mother tongue among people who were of indigenous ancestry dropped from 26% to 21%.

However, StatsCan noticed one encouraging trend, and it is the trend I think this legislation is designed to further, and that is the acquisition of an indigenous language as a second language or as a language spoken in parallel with one of the official languages, or for those who are fortunate enough, perhaps as one of their mother tongues.

The StatsCan report states:

Learning an Aboriginal language as a second language cannot be considered a substitute for learning it as a first language. Nevertheless, increasing the number of second language speakers is part of the process of language revitalization, and may go some way towards preventing, or at least slowing, the rapid erosion and possible extinction of endangered languages.

That is a salutary goal, as expressed by the author of this report for Statistics Canada 12 years ago, and it is a salutary goal as expressed in the preamble to this piece of legislation. However, it addresses the issue of languages that are in decline. It is a reasonable goal, but it is not necessarily going to succeed in all cases.

By way of example, I cite what happened in Ireland, where there was a widespread consensus when Ireland achieved independence, just under 100 years ago, that Irish Gaelic ought to be saved, ought to be preserved and ought to become a language of daily use. A nationwide consensus on this point, and a number of quite heroic measures, in some cases, caused the Irish language to become the only official language of the country. Money and postage stamps were printed in Irish alone. It was necessary to speak Irish to get a job in the public service, and so on. Areas called Gaeltacht, which were areas of Irish language use, were set up and made official language areas. Nonetheless, use of the Irish language, as both a percentage of language spoken in Ireland and in absolute numbers, continued to decline.

This is a very tough battle to fight. It is worth fighting, but I think we have to recognize that experience suggests that it is a very difficult battle indeed.

This is also a battle that is largely irrelevant to the speakers of a small number of very robust indigenous languages. This includes, in particular, Inuktut. It is on this basis that the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami put forward a position paper on language legislation and also critiqued this bill. What it said in its critique, which came out on February 5, is quite interesting:

Our efforts to revitalize, maintain, and promote Inuktut are often blunted by inequitable federal funding policies that task us with doing much more with far fewer resources than what French and English speakers receive. At the same time, our people do not have the right to access federal services in Inuktut, relegating it to a status beneath English and French.

That is important for a very significant reason, a reason that would not be true for people who were picking up an indigenous language as a second language, for example, or who were fluent speakers of an indigenous language as well as one of the official languages. That is because there are many people who are unilingual speakers of the Inuktut language or who struggle in one of the other official languages, usually English, but not always.

To give an idea of just how robust the language is, I want to cite the number of Inuit speakers in different areas of northern Canada. In Nunavut, there are 26,800 speakers. That is 89% of the residents of the Nunavut region, including people of all backgrounds. In Nunavik, which is the northern part of Quebec, 99% of the population is capable of speaking Inuktut. In Nunatsiavut, an area in northern Labrador, it is a much smaller percentage, 21%, and in the Inuvialuit Settlement Region, which is in part of the Northwest Territories, it is 22%.

To get numbers of 89% and 99%, one is talking about a base in which many of those people speak only that language. Making sure that they can receive all government services and have access to everything, such as health care, education, tax forms and anything else the government offers, so they can operate as unilingual speakers of their language is absolutely critical. That is, frankly, absent from this legislation, because this legislation is addressing another problem, the problem of languages that do not have that many unilingual speakers, or perhaps no unilingual speakers. They are languages that are being forgotten. I cannot say enough how important that issue is. It is, however, a distinct problem.

To give colleagues an idea of just how distinct the situation of the Inuktut language is from other languages, I am turning now to some 2011 census data. We see that 95.3% of lnnu, or Montagnais, speakers have a very robust language. They use their language at home, which is the best way of determining whether it is the language in which they are most comfortable. That is very impressive, but it is based on 10,100 people. Among Atikamekw, 97% use their language at home. Again, that is out of a base of fewer than 6,000 people. By contrast, 95% of Inuktut speakers use their language at home, out of 36,000 people. That is a very large number, and many of those people do not speak a language competently other than Inuktut. Those people need to have their ability to function as full members of Canadian society taken into account.

I encourage the government to think about that very carefully, either with this legislation, as it says it is open to amendment, or else in a parallel piece of legislation.

I have to stop now due to considerations of time, but I would love to answer any questions anyone has.

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

5:55 p.m.

Independent

Hunter Tootoo Independent Nunavut, NU

Madam Speaker, I thank everyone who spoke to this and I want to make it very clear that I support the concept and the idea behind the legislation. However, in its current form, I do not believe I can support it. I know the president of ITK, Natan Obed, said that the office of the commissioner of indigenous languages outlined under the legislation was little more than a new title for an existing aboriginal languages initiative program, a federal office that had largely failed so far to halt the decline of indigenous languages despite having a mission to improve it.

He said that unlike provincial and territorial languages commissioners, this national indigenous language commissioner would basically be a powerless advocacy group controlled by the federal government and that there was no obligation under the legislation on the part of the federal government to fund indigenous languages. He also said that in no way was the bill co-developed with Inuit.

I am an Inuk and I have lost my language. I have lost what I am very proud to see in Nunavut right now. People are showing an interest in learning and regaining their languages. In fact, in 2008, we passed our own Nunavut indigenous languages protection act and pieces of the education act that would force the government to offer bilingual education in Inuktitut. Sadly—

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

5:55 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

I am sorry, but the member has already taken two minutes out of the five minutes. Unfortunately, because another question can be asked, I will ask the member for Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston to respond. I do apologize, but there are only five minutes for questions and comments.

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

5:55 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON

Madam Speaker, very briefly, the member reflects some real concerns. I will be voting in favour of the legislation. The things that it does, it does well. However, if I found myself in a situation where I were representing a constituency where Inuktitut was the predominant language, I would be voting against it. This has simply failed to take into account the needs of that language group completely.

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Timmins—James Bay.

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Madam Speaker, I would be honoured to turn my question over to the member for Nunavut so he can finish his statement.

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

Does the hon. member have unanimous consent?

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

The hon. member for Nunavut.

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

Independent

Hunter Tootoo Independent Nunavut, NU

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague. I will continue with what I was saying. Unfortunately during this current sitting of the Nunavut legislature, it is looking at repealing pieces of that legislation because it does not have the resources to provide bilingual education.

Legislation like this should look at providing the territorial government, which has the responsibility for delivering education, with resources and funding so it can develop and deliver a bilingual education. This could be looked at with this legislation.

As I said, I was very proud to pass those pieces of legislation in 2008. I have heard a number of times, and even the minister has said earlier, that the government is open to amendments. I look forward to working with him and with ITK to bring amendments forward. Hopefully in a different version at third reading, after committee, I will be able to support it.

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON

Madam Speaker, the road map outlined by my colleague from Nunavut is a sensible one, and I hope the government is listening.

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Madam Speaker, it is an honour to speak to this historic legislation for the country. It is great to have this coming forward quickly.

[Member spoke in Gwich'in]

[English]

I hope the member for Nunavut goes to committee so he can elaborate more. I know he has a lot to contribute.

I appreciated being involved in the consultations in my riding in Yukon. Money for aboriginal languages goes to the individual self-governing first nations in Yukon. The chiefs have made it clear to me that they want to continue with that model and that the individual governments in the government-to-government relationships can best decide where that money should go. I am very excited and would encourage everyone involved in this, as well as the commissioner who might make those decisions, to ensure this format continues. One size does not fit all. Particular first nations know the best way to help preserve and promote their language.

I was hoping to ask the member for Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, who I know is an expert in the field, for some examples of successes. There have been great successes. Statistics show that people who have learned their aboriginal language, who know their aboriginal language and who are connected to their culture are more successful in life and in education, because they have the grounding.

An aboriginal youth said to me that the language and culture came first, not last, when youth had problems or difficulties, because the language grounded them and gave them that pride and strength to carry on and become successful in life. I know every member of this Parliament would want indigenous people to have that success in life, to be able to move forward and to close the unacceptable socio-economic gaps in our country. This language law is a big step in the right direction.

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

Unfortunately the member's time is up. It being 6:05 p.m., pursuant to order made earlier today, it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the second reading stage of the bill now before the House.

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

All those opposed will please say nay.

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Second readingIndigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

February 20th, 2019 / 6 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #994

Indigenous Languages ActGovernment Orders

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Geoff Regan

I declare the motion carried. Accordingly, the bill stands referred to the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

(Bill read the second time and referred to a committee)

It being 6:45 p.m., the House will now proceed to the consideration of Private Members' Business as listed on today's Order Paper.