Debates of Feb. 21st, 2019

Canada–Madagascar Tax Convention Implementation Act, 2018

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I am afraid that is debate.

The hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is the Green Party policy that public transit should be free. The point of the boutique tax credit that the Conservatives brought in, they claimed, was that it was a climate change measure, and it was at a cost of $2,000 a tonne. When the NDP decides to make public transit free, perhaps the member for Timmins—James Bay will have some additional points to raise.

At this point, I just want to clarify that this tax credit was rightfully removed, because it only helped people who could already afford to have transit passes.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I understand that the member for Timmins—James Bay is upset at the Green Party leader because he really wishes she had run a candidate in Burnaby South. That probably would have been better for his political plans.

In terms of the comments made by my friend from Saanich—Gulf Islands, a policy measure can be both good for the environment and helpful to low-income Canadians. Some across the way think we have to make a choice. They think the choice is either impose a carbon tax on low-income Canadians and punish them as their desired climate measure, or not do that and let them off on the tax front, but punish them otherwise. Conservatives believe there can be measures like the transit tax credit that are good for the environment and lower the taxes of low-income Canadians. We believe on this side of the House, in this party, that both of those things can be done at the same time.

To further respond, the member said the tax credit did not put new buses on the road. However, it made it easier for people to choose the option of using public transit, and it increased the volume on those buses. Of course, when there is greater demand for public transit, that creates more opportunities and more logic around further investments in the development of public transit.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting, to say the very least, to hear the comments from my colleague across the way. At times there needs to be a reality check.

The Conservatives like to talk as if they are the ones who give the tax breaks. The reality is that Bill C-2 has defied everything the Conservatives have tried to convince Canadians they do. Bill C-2 created a tax cut for Canada's middle class. That member and his caucus voted against that tax cut. They can say whatever they want, but they voted against hundreds of millions of dollars going into the pockets of Canadians. That is true. That is a fact. Look it up in Hansard. Look it up in the votes. There is no denying reality.

My question is related to this bill. We have talked about tax avoidance. We have invested hundreds of millions of dollars in two budgets to deal with the issue of international and national tax avoidance. That investment is making a huge difference. Again, the Conservative Party voted against the budget that went after tax evasion and tax avoidance.

Maybe the member can answer that as the second part of the first question regarding how he will explain to his constituents that the Conservative Party voted against tax breaks to Canada's middle class.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the member badly mischaracterizes Bill C-2. I am happy to remind him that Bill C-2 was in fact an omnibus measure that had multiple different elements to it. I proudly voted against it because it reduced the amount Canadians could put into tax-free savings accounts. The government attacked middle-income Canadians by reducing the amount they could save.

My friends across the way have clearly not looked at the data about who uses tax-free savings accounts. Tax-free savings accounts are demonstrably the preferred savings vehicle for middle-income Canadians, not the ultra rich, because of their tax treatment relative to RRSPs. Generally, for middle-income Canadians, TFSAs have relatively more advantageous tax implications compared to RRSPs. That is why those who open them and put money into them tend to disproportionately be middle-income Canadians.

The government's fundamental opposition and attack on the tax-free savings account was worth voting against. I will vote against the government's tax increases every step of the way.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Before resuming debate, I will again remind the hon. members, on all sides, that the bill at hand today is Bill S-6, not Bill C-2.

The hon. member for Central—Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is always an honour to rise in this place to speak on behalf of the good people of Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, as well as to bring forward some of my concerns.

Obviously these tax treaties have existed for a long time. In fact, two of the tax treaties I looked at earlier were dated back before I was born in the late 1970s. These tax treaties have existed for a long time. They have developed over the years. It is important to note that double taxation should be addressed.

Canada, as an open economy where we try to attract foreign direct investment, should do all it can to provide certainty so that monies from other countries can come here to make many of the important projects go forward in places like Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola. In my riding of Princeton, we have the Copper Mountain mine development. It is a very popular mine because it is one of the larger private employers in the area. That mine was the beneficiary of foreign direct investment.

When I did door-knocking in the 2015 election and introduced myself to the good people of Princeton, because the riding had changed, people pointed out that when the mine had originally closed for an extended period of time, the economy in Princeton had suffered greatly. The people benefited greatly from that mine both in terms of taxation, because now the community gets a share of the taxes that go to the provincial government, and from the employment and the services that the community is now able to have.

The same goes for the Highland Valley Copper mine just outside of the great town of Logan Lake. On a per capita level, Logan Lake and Princeton are some of the largest contributors to the net GDP of the area.

Before I go any further, I plan on sharing my time with the hon. member for Calgary Nose Hill and l am sure she will be giving a much more informed view on things.

However, when we talk about foreign direct investment building certainty through international tax agreements, it is important we talk about the benefits we have.

A new flotation facility was put in Highland Valley Copper about four or five years ago, easily half a billion dollars worth of investment. Those kinds of investments do not happen in countries unless there is a stable framework and the rule of law, including tax treaties. Again, the Nicola Valley has prospered as has the Similkameen Valley prospered because of these large developments. The amount of capital it takes is not always possible to be raised here.

Sometimes Canadians ask me why we have foreign direct investment, why can Canadians not simply invest in our own projects. The answer is that there is so much opportunity in the country that we cannot on our own resources alone expect reasonably to see many of these projects go forward. Having that foreign direct investment, having that stable presence in terms of the rule of law is incredibly important.

Bill S-6 is an an act to implement the convention between Canada and the Republic of Madagascar for the avoidance of double taxation and the prevention of fiscal evasion with respect to taxes on income. To be very clear, these are not new. Under the previous government, led by former prime minister Stephen Harper, we saw the renewal of the New Zealand agreement and also the agreement between Canada and France was updated.

Consecutive governments of different political stripes have sought to put these things in place. Not only does it relate to double taxation, it also makes life a little easier. For example, students are covered and it defines what a student is. If those students are drawing income from the other country that is part of the agreement, they will not have to pay taxes in the country where they are studying. These things are important and they eliminate a lot of red tape for individuals. I think we can find some common ground on that.

I have talked about two things: first, the importance of certainty, because business, development and investment cannot happen without that certainty; and second, opportunity, meaning people have to feel if they put a dollar in, they can expect that money to come back with even a return on that investment.

I am fearful that while the framework of Bill S-6 is here, the government has eroded some of those areas of certainty and opportunity.

For example, we had an opportunity today. We had Kim Moody talk about the changes the government had made to the Income Tax Act, specifically around small businesses and Canadian controlled private corporations. I asked the Canadian Federation of Independent Business about this. The government likes to talk about lowering taxes for small business, but when I spoke to the CFIB, when I heard some of the testimony of Mr. Moody today, I found that the government had made it so difficult for many families to utilize a legitimate tax regime that was available to them in previous years. Because there is such a grey zone by the layering of rules, they do not have any certainty.

If we ask Canadians or people from other countries to invest in this country and if they find there is not the same certainty or opportunity they once had, they may choose not to invest. They may choose to not grow their business because they do not see the opportunity there.

Bill S-6 does add a little more certainty for people to come from Madagascar to invest in Canada, knowing the rules that would be applied to them under law. There would be a tax treaty to share information between jurisdictions to ensure they would not double taxed. However, when someone sees the absolute mess the government has placed our country in on responsible resource development, there is no certainty.

Look at the visiting convoy we had the other day. Those people want certainty. They want opportunity. They do not want bills like Bill C-69. They do not want to see foreign investment chased away.

While we are talking about chasing away investment, the government, through its failure to create a stable regulatory state, has allowed the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion to languish. Private dollars were going to build opportunity for the people of Merritt. I am not sure I mentioned this before, but the community of Merritt was promised, under a community development agreement, that it would get certain funds to use for flood mitigation. However, because the company did not have that certainty and did not feel there was an opportunity, it decided to use its money to fund pipeline development in the United States. That is a real shame.

It is not just having the framework like Bill S-6 in place. There also has to be a sense that the rule of law will always be followed, that we are bound by the rules that have been put in place, that our word is our word, that there is no political interference once the Governor General has given the nod to a piece of legislation and it is the law of the land.

Mr. Speaker, earlier you raised the issue of you wanting all of us to talk about Bill S-6. However, the elephant in the room is we find out that cabinet confidences have been broken. We find out that caucus confidences have been broken on the Liberal side. It is all over the papers. When people find out that someone is allegedly trying to interfere in an independent prosecution case, they start to ask themselves if this is a country that follows the rule of law. That erodes confidence. That makes people say that perhaps they will not invest in Canada, that they instead will go to Australia, or the United States, where they have certainty and opportunity.

As a Canadian, this is so important for us. We have bills, like Bill S-6, that put forward proper frameworks. However, even if those frameworks are in place, if people do not feel that officials will follow those laws, both elected and bureaucratic officials, that dissolves or erodes the sense of rule of law. May we never find ourselves in such a state where people question the Canadian government or the Canadian people on our commitment to the rule of law.

I call upon the government to have that public inquiry. I call specifically for the Prime Minister to waive client-solicitor privilege for the former attorney general. Why? Because I am all about certainty, opportunity and feeling proud of our country and telling people that I am a proud Canadian. I am sure the people on the street are saying the same thing. It does not look good. It does not make us feel good. That needs to change.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the member across the way is losing his focus in regard to the bill at hand. The government has not lost its focus as we continue to work, day in and day out, for Canadians in all regions of this country, dealing with issues that are of the utmost importance. These are things such as jobs, health care, services for seniors, ensuring we are lifting seniors and children out of poverty, and a litany of different activities all focused on improving the lifestyle of Canadians in all regions of our country. As a demonstration of that, over 800,000 jobs have been created in the last few years.

When we talk about the bill that we have before us today, I would suggest these tax treaties are a good part of the outreach by this government in terms of expanding our markets. By expanding our markets and allowing additional investments and so forth, we are adding strength to the Canadian economy. By doing that, we are supporting Canada's middle class.

Would the member across the way not agree that by looking abroad at trade agreements and tax agreements, we are actually giving more strength to the economy and that all Canadians and all regions benefit from that? That is one of the reasons the bill should be passed.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Speaker, first, the member said the current Liberal government and its caucus are working for everyday Canadians. Media reports show that the Liberals' caucus meeting yesterday was consumed not by the wish to work for everyday Canadians but to protect the Liberal Party. The cabinet meeting on Tuesday was all about the issue surrounding the former attorney general and the Prime Minister's role and the staff of the Prime Minister's Office in regard to potential interference in an independent prosecutor case. That is what the Liberal Party was up to this week, full stop.

Second, as I said, I support building that certainty and opportunity, but the current government continues to allow these things to erode. If we do not have the rule of law, what worth is this paper?

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his speech and the work he does on financial and tax matters on the Standing Committee on Finance.

He is familiar with our tax treaties. To return to Bill S-6, I was wondering whether my colleague shares the NDP’s concerns that tax treaties can be abused over time, and that they can become a means of avoiding and ultimately evading taxes.

Does my colleague share these concerns about the treaties? Does he think that, as a country, we should not be blindly signing treaties with other countries? We have 93 or 94 such treaties now. Does he agree that we should not be blinded by these treaties but that we should do our due diligence to make sure that, over time, they do not end up facilitating tax evasion and abusive tax avoidance?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I certainly appreciate the member's work on the finance committee. In fact, he and I could probably find some agreement that there are certain things that should be done as independent bills. Regarding the case that was raised on the deferred prosecution agreements that went to the finance committee rather than the justice committee, I hope we would agree that is definitely not the proper case and we should not have a blind sign-off, as the current Liberal government expected parliamentarians to do. To be fair, Liberal members made sure that piece of legislation went through.

I go back to my original statement. Many of these date back before I was born. Tax treaties create certainty. If there are issues with them, this is the place to raise them. Unfortunately, I find that the New Democrats continue to be alarmist without actually bringing details. For example, the member said we should not be blindly doing it. The piece of legislation is right in front of us. These have been well used. In fact, there was the recent profit sharing and base erosion bill that the government brought forward here.

If the member has specific concerns, the finance committee and this place are the exact locations to raise them. However, they cannot just raise blind accusations and expect to have anything other than derision, confusion or a lack of action about their concerns.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, today we are debating a bill called an act to implement the convention between Canada and the Republic of Madagascar for the avoidance of double taxation and the prevention of fiscal evasion with respect to taxes on income.

For those who might not be aware of the process on how the legislative calendar is set in the House of Commons, it is important that people who are watching this debate understand that the government House leader found it proper and a great use of time to prioritize this piece of legislation in the House today.

My objection to the bill is an objection to the fact that it has been prioritized. This particular bill, a tax avoidance with Madagascar bill, has been prioritized for debate in the House of Commons today, when, arguably, the House is on fire. This is kind of like a “the House is on fire and the government is choosing to water the rosebushes outside” situation.

Let us recap the week. We are debating the implementation of the convention between Canada and the Republic of Madagascar for the avoidance of double taxation, after a convoy of trucks of out-of-work western Canadian energy sector workers had to drive to Ottawa to talk about the fact that we do not have a pipeline built, after the Prime Minister spent billions of dollars buying something that the private sector was going to build but then decided not to after he put in place legislation that has completely bankrupted the investment climate in Canada.

Maybe we could be debating that. Maybe we could be talking about getting energy sector workers back to work or the ridiculously poor investment climate for energy investment in Canada. That sounds important. However, I do not think the Prime Minister wanted to meet with any of those people. What we are talking about today is the Canada-Madagascar avoidance of double taxation bill. That seems about on par in terms of importance.

We could talk about the fact that we just found out this week that for refugee claims, after the Prime Minister has allowed 40,000 people to illegally cross the border from upstate New York, the haven of persecution that is upstate New York, to claim asylum in Canada, the wait times to hear whether or not their claims are valid, and they are coming from upstate New York, has ballooned past two years and is on track to be five years.

The government has spent over $1 billion to give hotel rooms and social welfare payments to people from upstate New York. Maybe we could talk about that. No, what we have here today is the convention between Canada and the Republic of Madagascar for the avoidance of double taxation. What?

Okay, those are two things we could have talked about. I am happy to talk about those things. I think they are important. They are certainly important to my constituents. One thing my constituents have not emailed or called me about, and I have not heard about at the door in any of the ridings I have door-knocked in, is the convention between Canada and the Republic of Madagascar for the avoidance of double taxation.

I could be surprised. Maybe this is a burning issue in a riding that went from a single-digit national rate of unemployment to one of the highest unemployment rates in the country because of the government's failed policies that have been punitive to the energy sector. My constituents phone me about the fact that they might have to move out of Alberta, that their houses are up foreclosure and they are out of credit card room, and they ask me to do something about their jobs. No, maybe my constituents want me to talk about the convention between Canada and the Republic of Madagascar for the avoidance of double taxation. Come on, what is going on in this place?

Seriously, how could this even make the legislative agenda, given the government tabled a eight-billion-page omnibus budget bill where it conveniently snuck in the deferred prosecution agreement? Maybe we should have debated that at the justice committee but the government stuck that in there.

However, we have to have a whole day of debate on the convention between Canada and the Republic of Madagascar for the avoidance of double taxation. Why would the government want to spend a whole day of debate on—

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I question the relevance of the member's speech. The only reference to the bill has been the member reading its title.

[An hon. member]

That's true.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I will let the hon. member for Calgary Nose Hill continue. Actually, based on what I have heard today, she is probably the most relevant of anyone who has spoken.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I understand my colleague opposite, because lately the Liberals have been doing their very best to silence strong women that do not agree with their position. I will not stand for that, so I am quite pleased to continue my speech on the fact that the government, while our border is not secure and Alberta energy sector workers have no jobs, has prioritized the convention between Canada and the Republic of Madagascar for the avoidance of double taxation and the prevention of fiscal evasion.

The government tabled an omnibus budget bill that contained virtually every topic under the sun, including a deferred prosecution agreement that is now the subject of a major scandal in the Prime Minister's Office, but today we are going to spend a whole day of debate talking about the Canada and Republic of Madagascar avoidance for double taxation bill.

Perhaps we could have talked today about the fact that Canada still has ridiculously punitive tariffs on it from the United States of America. I would have loved to talk about some sort of government response or legislative framework or strategy to deal with these tariffs that the government has done nothing about, which are damaging the Canadian economy. Auto sector workers and union workers across the country are saying maybe the government could do something about that. We could have talked about that but, no, we are talking about the convention between Canada and the Republic of Madagascar for the avoidance of double taxation.

We sure as heck are not talking about the fact that the Prime Minister is embroiled in an alleged scandal where he allegedly exerted political influence to influence the outcome of a criminal corruption case involving allegations of bribery of a Libyan official. Maybe we could talk about that.

Maybe we could talk about the fact that the Clerk of the Privy Council is at the justice committee right now giving the most partisan political speech I have ever heard out of a public servant in my life as an attempt to deflect—

[An hon. member]

That is because you don't like what he is saying.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Maybe we could talk about that, Mr. Speaker.

We could have had a public inquiry. We could have had a whole day of discussion dealing with the fact that there are serious allegations of obstruction of justice, of interference in our judicial system in Canada. We could have talked about that. No, we are talking about the convention between Canada and the Republic of Madagascar for the avoidance of double taxation and the prevention of fiscal evasion. Come on. What are the government's priorities? Canadians are watching this. Investors, workers, everyone is looking at our country now and asking, “Who is in charge? What is going on?”

The Liberal government needs to get its act together. The government needs to start putting some stuff forward that will actually benefit Canada and get us out of the mess that it has created, but instead we are talking about the convention between Canada and the Republic of Madagascar on the avoidance of double taxation. I am tired of this. This is a joke.

At this point in time, the government needs to go. Nothing is getting done because it is so busy trying to figure out how to avoid public prosecution and public inquiries. How many ongoing inquiries are there involving cabinet ministers now? We had the “clam scam”. We had all of the stuff happening with the Norman case. There was the Aga Khan island incident.

Madagascar has a special place in many Canadians' hearts for being a lovely country. There is a lovely film about it. In that spirit I would like to move the following amendment because “I like to move it, move it”. I move:

That the motion be amended by deleting all the words after the word “That” and substituting the following: “Bill S-6, An Act to implement the Convention between Canada and the Republic of Madagascar for the avoidance of double taxation and the prevention of fiscal evasion with respect to taxes on income, be not now read a second time but that the Order be discharged, the Bill withdrawn and the subject matter thereof referred to the Standing Committee on Finance.”

Let us get this act together and get some accountability from the government.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

The amendment is in order.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Winnipeg North.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I am somewhat inspired by my colleague across the way. She asked why we are debating this. Why do we not get rid of this? That is what she spent nine and a half of her 10 minutes talking about.

I think it is important that I let her know what her caucus colleagues are doing. The Conservative Party supports the legislation. It has been very clear. In fact, the origins of the legislation go back to the former Conservative government. The Conservatives are supporting it, yet speaker after speaker is continuing the debate.

I highly recommend that my friend across the way talk to her colleagues. It is a pretty straightforward piece of legislation. The Conservatives support it. I agree with her that we should not be talking about it right now. It is something that should be passed.

We stopped putting up speakers after our first speaker had spoken about it. I do not think even the NDP or the Green Party are putting up speakers. It is the Conservative Party that wants to hold up this legislation. Would my colleague not agree? I will join her in asking her Conservative colleagues to stop speaking and allow this vote. I support her initiative. I wonder if she agrees with me and will appeal to her colleagues. Please, please let us move on to a different agenda item.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, despite my colleague's pleading and begging us to be silent, the Conservative Party of Canada will always stand up for Canadians. It will always stand up for people's right to lower taxes and smaller government and against the tax-and-spend corrupt agenda of the Liberals.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I must admit that I had the same reaction as my colleague. For once, I agree with the member for Winnipeg North.

I must remind the Canadians who are watching at home that we began with three good 20-minute speeches that were directly related to Bill S-6. They were given by the parliamentary secretary, a member of the Bloc Québécois, and me, which I say in all modesty. A Conservative member also gave a speech that was more or less related to Bill S-6. The Conservatives focused a little less on the bill, but they mostly stayed on topic.

When my colleague finishes her speech, will she allow the bill to be passed? All of the parties agree. The Conservatives, the Bloc Québécois, the Liberals and the NDP all agree on the bill. Could the member allow us to move on to the next item on the orders of the day? She is criticizing the Liberals' agenda and priorities. Can we move on to the next priority after her speech, or will another Conservative member, perhaps the finance critic, be speaking?

If so, it will mean that the Conservatives are the ones filibustering today in the House.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, what my colleague just said is that the NDP is not willing to stand up and speak against the government. The Conservative Party of Canada is the only party that is going to stand up and speak to oppose the terrible, wasteful spending and the terrible agenda of the Prime Minister, which Canadians have had enough of. I am proud to be a Conservative and to day after day stand up for the interests of everyday Canadians, as opposed to this Liberal-NDP coalition that will not speak against garbage agendas in the House of Commons, when the rest of the country is on fire.

I hope that every single member of the caucus of the Conservative Party of Canada will stand here today to stand up against the Prime Minister.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the hon. member for Sarnia—Lambton.

I am speaking today to this tax treaty. Now that we are on the subject of taxes, the finance committee is responsible for that subject. Today we had hearings on the government's spending and on other tax treaties. Normally, when government spending is up for testimony before committee, the finance minister shows up to answer questions. Curiously, today that did not happen. I say “curiously”, because his absence screams with suspicion. He sent his parliamentary secretary in his place.

Why would he do that today? It turns out that it was reported in The Globe and Mail today that the finance minister met with SNC-Lavalin exactly two weeks after the director of public prosecutions decided formally not to cut a side deal with that company to avoid trial and prosecution. Apparently, the—

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, as you can see, my colleague wants me to stand up on a point of order. I am not disappointing the member.

There is an expectation that we be somewhat relevant. I know the Conservatives want to change the focus of all debate to one issue, but this has nothing to do with Bill S-6.