Debates of March 19th, 2019

Public Accounts

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that answer makes no sense. That is at least the third Liberal speech I have heard where they say they want to talk about another bill. Then why do they keep making speeches? Why do they not use the tools they have at their disposal starting at the next intervention to move on to consideration of Bill C-92 if it is so important?

I have a hard time believing that the Liberals truly want to talk about Bill C-92 when it took them so long to introduce it in the House of Commons. The Liberals are doing nothing right now to move on to consideration of Bill C-92.

[Marco Mendicino]

Mr. Speaker, I keep being asked the same question, so I will give the same answer.

I encourage my colleague to speak with her Conservative Party colleagues. This is a Conservative motion. They are obstructing the proceedings to cause delays, which is preventing us from moving forward with what matters to Canadians in our budget.

The NDP members should talk to the Conservatives.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, it would appear that the New Democrats have finally followed the debate from yesterday and now have recognized the Conservatives' intent to prevent us from debating Bill C-92. I hope the NDP will be consistent in ensuring we can make progress on Bill C-92 and other important government legislation.

It has become clear that the Conservatives only desire is to be as disruptive as possible on all government initiatives because they do not want to talk about the good, progressive policy initiatives in legislation or even in a budget to be presented later today.

With the official opposition in its own wonderland, trying to ramp up some sort of rhetoric on an issue that is not relevant in the minds of Canadians, could my colleague provide his thoughts on why it is so important we as government continue to remain focused on Canadians?

[Marco Mendicino]

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to provide my thoughts on how important it is that we remain focused on Canadians, because we know what is at stake.

Yesterday, we heard the Prime Minister give a statement with regard to the tragic events in New Zealand, a statement that put into very sharp focus those elements that represent a threat to our democratic institutions. In order to achieve the kinds of results my hon. colleague just asked about with regard to the economy, trade, the environment, reconciliation and criminal justice reform, we need to unite together and push back on those people who have a toxic ideology that is motivated by hate and discrimination and by the attempt to divide one person from the next.

The Prime Minister called on members of every political stripe to fight against those movements so we could continue to ensure there was confidence in every democratic institution, including in the House. If we do so, we will continue to deliver for Canadians on the economy, create jobs and create prosperity. That is what this government is focused on and that is what we will be focused on in the next election and beyond.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague, the parliamentary secretary, is deviating from what this debate is actually about. If we are going to deviate, we need to deviate to the justice committee and the shameful shutdown.

He talks about glorious principles and says that we do not want to talk about the Liberal record. We do want to talk about the Liberal record. We want to talk about sunshine being a disinfectant, which the Prime Minister promised citizens in 2015.

If the parliamentary secretary wants to talk about higher principles, could he tell Canadians how the Liberals were able to shut down the justice committee? Sunshine it was not; a boatload of bleach it was.

[Marco Mendicino]

Mr. Speaker, there has been a lot of deviation by the member in terms of the subject matter she wants to question me about. First it was the concurrence report, then Bill C-92 and now the subject matter that is before the justice committee. Talk about being all over the map. This is another attempt to obstruct and disrupt, which is what we see from the Conservatives.

With regard to the work of the justice committee, it is operating independently. I am proud of the work that the Liberal members of Parliament have done on the committee. Indeed, they partnered in many meaningful ways with their Conservative and NDP colleagues with regard to the material witnesses who would be called. Canadians are better off knowing more about what occurred over the last number of months with regard to the SNC affair. That is a good thing. There is also the Ethics Commissioner's inquiry in which, again, witnesses will have every opportunity to provide evidence.

However, the Conservatives' efforts to deviate from the work of this government, which is singularly focused on Canadians, will not succeed, because we have the best team, the best ideas and the best leader. That is what Canadians can count on going forward.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am proud to rise today and speak to the motion at hand with respect to SNC-Lavalin and the Champlain Bridge. We will have a lot to talk about over the next 20 minutes of debate and 10 minutes of questions.

This is the first time I have had a chance to rise in the House after the events that took place in Christchurch. I am hopeful you will allow me a few minutes to speak about that. Our condolences go to the victims, their families, and the Muslim community in Christchurch and around the world. The entire country of New Zealand is grieving, and we grieve with it.

Also, we need to always be mindful of those who rushed to the aid of victims to do whatever they could to save lives. Those are the first responders and the people who were on the scene immediately after the horrific events. We know the horrific sights and sounds they encountered will likely stay with them the rest of their lives. We should always take a moment to pause and reflect, and give thanks to our first responders. They run toward danger when many would run the other way. They see and experience things that most people can only imagine.

I also want to say that our thoughts are with the first responders and their families, because we know through the work we have been doing with respect to post-traumatic stress disorder that these incidents will stay with them and have a dramatic impact on their lives in the days, weeks, months and years to come.

Violent extremism has no place in our society. We must stand and act against systemic racism, religious intolerance, and discrimination against Muslims, Jews, Christians, Sikhs, Hindus and all other religious communities. We need to build a world where people of every faith can live in freedom and peace together.

I had an opportunity this weekend to speak at an event in Ottawa called ILEAD 2019. It was an event that was organized by Islamic and Muslim youth in the Ottawa area. There were almost 3,000 people from the Muslim community. There were leaders from all political stripes and all religious backgrounds. It was a powerful moment. We need to ensure that we are not just offering thoughts and prayers when we hear about events such as what took place in Christchurch or the Netherlands. As leaders, we must act to do whatever we can to mitigate hatred in our society.

We are here today to talk about SNC. I have listened to the debate. I have listened to the boisterous rants and interventions from colleagues across the way. Perhaps “rant” is a bit harsh, but it is as if they feel that if they speak louder, Canadians will listen to them and believe them a little more.

Today is about trust. That is where I want to focus my conversation with those who are listening in. We have a pretty packed gallery here today, with people who are listening in. Colleagues on all sides are riveted to this speech and Canadians should be listening to why what we are doing here today is important.

I will bring members back to the 2015 campaign. It seems like I say this far too often and it has become a bit of a repetitive rant, but it strikes to the core of why we are here today. The member for Papineau, our Prime Minister, told Canadians that his government would be the most open and transparent in the history of our country. He also told Canadians they needed to have trust in their government, and that his would work tirelessly to earn that trust.

The member for Eglinton—Lawrence said “trust us”. He mentioned it a couple of times, that Canadians needed to trust that Liberals were working in their best interests. Canadians have seen over the last three and a half years that they cannot trust the government.

On day 10 of the campaign of 2015, the member for Papineau said his government would not resort to parliamentary tricks such as closure or omnibus bills. What are we seeing? Well, closure has taken place over 60 times. Why is that? The Liberals are threatening to do that again today. They have invoked closure because they do not like the narrative that comes out of this type of debate. However, that narrative gives Canadians a chance to hear the real story. That is very similar to what we have seen at the justice committee.

The Prime Minister's Office has lawyered up. The Ethics Commissioner was supposed to be investigating the SNC case, but he is on medical leave indefinitely now. I am being a little partisan, but the Clerk of the Privy Council gave a riveting testimony in the early days of the justice committee's SNC-Lav scam study. We heard yesterday that he has suddenly announced his retirement. It might not have been of his own volition, but he is retiring nonetheless.

We also found out yesterday that the Prime Minister has hired an independent outside entity to do the investigation. Who is it? Surprise, surprise. It is a former Liberal minister who was a colleague to some of the folks who are possibly involved in this, and who just recently was fundraising for the Liberal Party. This is as independent as the Liberals get; it is Liberals looking after Liberals.

I said before that it is open and transparent, but it is only open if one is a Liberal or a close family friend. They will get the contract or the quota. It is Liberals looking after Liberals. I do not have a crystal ball, but I guarantee the result will be that there is nothing to see here, to move on.

The former attorney general is still in the House and boy, did she speak truth to power a few weeks back. I hear laughing when I say that. The former attorney general gave powerful testimony for three hours and 40 minutes.

[An hon. member]

Oh, oh!

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

As colleagues across the way continue to poke fun and disparage her testimony, I hope the microphones can catch that.

Now we hear that the Liberal members on the justice committee have sent a letter saying there is nothing further to see here, and that Canadians want the justice committee to move on. The case is closed.

This is after the former attorney general has stated publicly that there are answers to more questions that she needs to give, that she wants to be able to tell her side of the story. She cannot, regardless of what those across the way say. She cannot because she is bound by solicitor-client privilege and cabinet confidentiality, and the Prime Minister refuses to let that happen. He says they have given her every chance, and he wants Canadians to trust him. It goes back to what I said earlier. Trust is why we are here today. I want to bring us back to the timeline that brought us to this point.

It was early 2015 when the RCMP laid a corruption charge against SNC-Lavalin. It was October 19 of that same year that there was a change in government. Canadians believed and bought hook, line and sinker that the current Prime Minister would back up the things he said he was going to do. On March 27, 2018, the Liberals tabled a budget bill and that included a change to the—

[Dan Vandal]

Mr. Speaker, I have a point of order. We were prepared this morning to discuss indigenous child welfare, which is a topic that is very relevant and that we co-developed with the indigenous community in over 70 meetings with over 3,000 people involved. The Conservatives do not want to talk about indigenous child welfare. They want to talk about the Champlain Bridge. I do not agree with that, but that is where this discussion is going. However, the hon. member is not talking about the Champlain Bridge. He is talking about information that is irrelevant, certainly to indigenous child welfare as well as to the Champlain Bridge.

The member should get back on the subject that we are here to speak on, ideally indigenous child welfare. I understand they do not want to talk about that, but at the very least he could talk about what they were advocating for two hours ago, which is the Champlain Bridge.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I thank the hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indigenous Services for his comments. This has happened earlier in today's debate. I remind hon. members that the question before the House involves a debate on concurring in a committee report. Members are reminded to keep their remarks related to the question that is before the House, which is a normal part of our debate rules and procedures. Having said that, members will also know that members are given the freedom to mix those ideas in the course of their remarks so long as they are pertinent to the question that is before the House. Therefore, I would ask the hon. member for Cariboo—Prince George to bring it back around to that subject and we will carry on from there.

The hon. member for Cariboo—Prince George.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will come back to what I said earlier, which speaks to the core of both Bill C-92, for our colleagues across the way, as well as the motion that we have before us. It is about trust and the lack of trust that Canadians have with the Prime Minister and indeed his team.

We are at a crisis of confidence right now. I am fairly young, but I remember a show called “I Dream of Jeannie”. It is like the Liberals are trying to change the channel with a click and they are trying to change the narrative. Every time they try to do that it is because they don't want Canadians hearing the message that we have to say, because it is the truth.

Our colleague for Saanich—Gulf Islands does not often stand up in defence of the official opposition, the Conservatives, but we heard that earlier today when she asked how we had arrived at where we are today. It is because of the heavy-handed efforts and tactics that the Liberals and the government have used on the justice committee by not allowing testimony. All they need to do is to let her speak. Let the former attorney general speak.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

The heckling is getting louder and they can speak as loud as they want. However, we are here today to talk about the broken promises that the Prime Minister and his team have levied against Canadians and the broken trust. They can shout all they want and they can heckle all they want. That means we are getting to them. It means that we are telling the truth. They do not know the truth, they cannot hear the truth, they cannot speak the truth and they cannot handle the truth.

Canadians deserve a chance to hear the truth. All the opposition has asked is for the former attorney general to be able to have that opportunity to come to committee and speak her truth. She says she has more to say. If the Prime Minister is not afraid of what she has to say, why not allow her the opportunity to come? He has muzzled her at every chance.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. You already ruled on this a few moments ago. The member opposite's remarks are not relevant to the current topic. Perhaps he could use his genie to bring him back on topic so that we can continue to debate what is meant to be debated today.

Mr. Speaker, I would like you to make a ruling on this and ask the member opposite to stick to the ruling you make.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

I thank the hon. member for Kingston and the Islands for his additional intervention on this. One of the difficulties with the standing order as it relates to relevance is that one actually has to hear what a member has said before one can understand the degree to which a member is on topic. I accept that the premise of the member's remarks is about questions of trust and that he has examples of other aspects of government decisions and so on.

Having said that, the member has about six minutes left in his remarks, and I believe he needs to make his ideas relevant to the question that is before the House, and he needs to do that soon.

The hon. member for Cariboo—Prince George.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in the final six minutes I have, I will tie this back to the debate. If only our colleagues across the way could just have trust that I am going to do that.

I want to bring up a comment that our colleague from Eglinton—Lawrence said in his intervention. He noted that today is a day when Canadians expect Liberals to deliver. Do Canadians not expect the Liberals to deliver every day? Sadly, we have not seen it. They want to change the channel.

I am going to bring the House back to the early days of the government, when it introduced its Motion No. 6 to try to change the Standing Orders and our procedures. At that time, a minister was found guilty of using a limousine as a preferred choice of transportation and billing the taxpayers for that. We also found out that the finance minister had a French villa and he was found guilty. The Prime Minister was the first prime minister in the history of our country to be found guilty of ethics violations. I also have to mention the clam scam, which involved a former fisheries minister. They were all found guilty.

Now I will get to where we are today. Why do we find it challenging to believe what the Liberals say they are going to do? It is because they have not done it.

I would like now to talk about Bill C-92, which is what our colleagues across the way want. My comments are relevant, as it has been entered into the debate a few times.

I want to remind Canadians that it was the former Conservative government that signed a bilateral agreement with B.C., my home province, in 2012-13 to reimburse B.C. for child welfare services provided to 72 first nations communities. In our record as a Conservative team, we actually took into account the child welfare challenges.

I also want to bring our colleagues across the way back to—

[Dan Vandal]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. As parliamentary secretary to indigenous services, I note that we were here at 10 a.m. to discuss this important bill, Bill C-92, which is about indigenous child welfare. Those on the other side did not want to discuss it. They wanted to discuss the Champlain Bridge. Now the member opposite wants to talk about Bill C-92.

This is completely inappropriate. We should have been talking about Bill C-92 as of 10 a.m., but the Conservatives did not want to do this. The member opposite does not get the opportunity now to discuss Bill C-92, when we have not introduced it.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Order, please.

I thank the hon. parliamentary secretary for his additional intervention on this. I have given a ruling on the relevance aspects of this particular debate.

As I mentioned earlier, this topic came up earlier from the other side with respect to the debate that is before the House. I asked the hon. member for Cariboo—Prince George to get back to the topic at hand. He continued to add his remarks but did so, in this case in particular, regarding a bill that was available for consideration during today's debate.

At this point, our time has exhausted and we are moving to questions and comments. We have about eight minutes for questions and comments, and that will bring us to the end of the time that is allocated for the concurrence debate today.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Kingston and the Islands.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, at the beginning of his statement, the member took a considerable amount of time to talk about the events that unfolded in New Zealand, the way the world is reacting to it and, in particular, the way we should be reacting to it. Given that the member has demonstrated there is a need to take action, is he willing to stand and tell the House that it is time to put forward meaningful gun legislation or is he going to continue to hide behind the Conservative narrative that now would be an inappropriate time to do it because it would be politicizing the issue?

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Speaker, let us talk about relevance. Now my colleague across the way wants to enter into a dialogue about gun violence and gun policy. Let us stay focused on my speech and the discussion we had here today. How many points of order were there during my speech? There were probably five, which used up a considerable amount of time. If those across the way do not like the message, this is exactly what they do, they try to change the channel and that is unacceptable.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, for anybody watching this debate, I am sure it is not with great amusement.

The Liberals object to opposition members not talking about the Champlain Bridge, but they are definitely not talking about the Champlain Bridge when they stand to speak on this matter. They are talking about everything from Islamophobia to who knows what. The incredible thing is that the government has asserted its powers over and over again at committee and in this place to cut off debate. Liberals have the power to move a motion to adjourn the debate and go to the orders of the day. In this particular instance, they claim their priority is to talk about Bill C-92, yet they have sat there for how many hours now, choosing not to assert those powers for what they claim is a top priority: the rights and interests of indigenous children in Canada.

The big question I would put to my colleague is this. Why do the Liberals not want to talk about the Champlain Bridge and if they do not want to talk about the Champlain Bridge, why are they not asserting their powers in this instance instead of asserting their powers to shut down discussion about SNC-Lavalin at committee?

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I could not have said it any better or more eloquently than my hon. colleague did.

The reality is that, as I said a few times, if the Liberals do not like the message or what members are saying, they always try to change the channel and the conversation. They want Canadians to believe their version of the story and the reality is that the only people telling the truth are those in the opposition.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, members on the other side of the House really need to give their heads a shake. Think about it. For the last two days, the Minister of Indigenous Services and Liberal members have wanted to talk about Bill C-92, but the opposition continues to frustrate the debate by filibustering, by putting forward motions like the one today to talk about the Champlain Bridge. That is today; yesterday it was something else. They do not want to debate substantive legislation.

On one hand, opposition members say the Liberal government always uses tools to prevent them from speaking and, on the other hand, they ask why the Liberals are not using those tools. They are challenging us to do something they do not want us—