House of Commons Hansard #416 of the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was chair.

Topics

6:25 p.m.

Liberal

David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC

Mr. Chair, as I have pointed out, a public inquiry is being undertaken by the Ethics Commissioner.

May 14th, 2019 / 6:25 p.m.

NDP

Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON

Mr. Chair, no public inquiry is under way. The Ethics Commissioner's work is limited and it is not an independent public inquiry.

I will ask my question once again. Will the Liberal government call for an independent public inquiry into the SNC-Lavalin allegations that the PMO interfered politically, yes or no?

6:25 p.m.

Liberal

David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC

Mr. Chair, as I have repeated a number of times, Canadians obviously deserve the truth. My predecessor has stated in her testimony before the justice committee that she did not feel that anyone broke the law. The director of public prosecutions has said that she felt no political interference.

6:30 p.m.

NDP

Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON

Mr. Chair, obviously we are not going to get an answer from the minister tonight on whether the government intends to get to the truth for Canadians. Therefore, I will switch gears. We will talk a bit about the testimony of the former attorney general. In her testimony, she said:

I experienced a consistent and sustained effort by many people within the government to seek to politically interfere in the exercise of prosecutorial discretion in my role as the Attorney General of Canada in an inappropriate effort to secure a deferred prosecution agreement with SNC-Lavalin.

Does the minister ever think it is appropriate for anyone in the PMO, the PCO or any political actors to pressure the Attorney General about a particular case with respect to his or her prosecutorial discretion?

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC

Mr. Chair, as I have said on a number of occasions publicly, I have felt no pressure from anyone in cabinet or in the Prime Minister's Office to exercise my powers of directing a DPA in this particular case. If such pressure were to happen, I would immediately react.

I cannot speak for what my predecessor felt. I know that there are competing narratives out there.

6:30 p.m.

NDP

Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON

Mr. Chair, when the member for Vancouver Granville testified at the committee, she described “a barrage of people hounding” her and her staff.

What are the minister's thoughts on that statement?

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC

Mr. Chair, that was certainly her statement. As I said, there are competing accounts. I was not privy to any of those discussions or conversations, and I do note that there were competing narratives.

6:30 p.m.

NDP

Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON

Mr. Chair, I believe the member for Vancouver Granville. Canadians believe the member for Vancouver Granville. Does he?

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC

Mr. Chair, again, I cannot comment, because I was not party to those conversations.

6:30 p.m.

NDP

Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON

Mr. Chair, does the minister think that the member for Vancouver Granville was telling the truth?

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC

Mr. Chair, once again, there are perfectly compatible competing interpretations of events in which everyone is telling the truth.

6:30 p.m.

NDP

Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON

Mr. Chair, I will try again. It is unfortunate that I have to repeat the questions and I am unable to get answers.

Do you think that the member for Vancouver Granville is telling the truth, yes or no?

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Chair, I rise on a point of order.

As you know, the same rules apply as when we are not in committee of the whole. The members should know better than to refer specifically to the member as “you”. All questions should be put through the Chair.

6:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton

I thank the hon. member for Winnipeg North for bringing this to the attention of the committee of the whole this evening. He is right, of course. The normal rules of debate apply. I ask hon. members to direct their comments and speech toward the Chair and to use the third person form in the usual way they do in the House.

The hon. Minister of Justice.

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC

Mr. Chair, once again, I was not privy to the conversations in question, so I have no real way to evaluate other than to say that there are a number of competing narratives that are compatible with everyone having told the truth.

6:30 p.m.

NDP

Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON

Mr. Chair, will the minister launch an independent investigation into how Vice-Admiral Norman's case has been handled?

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC

Mr. Chair, as I have said a number of times in this House, the RCMP did its job in gathering evidence and initially laying charges. The prosecution service took on the carriage of the case and eventually decided to stay the charges. I am confident that our justice system, our investigative system and our prosecution system have functioned well.

6:30 p.m.

NDP

Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON

Mr. Chair, Vice-Admiral Norman and his lawyer are not confident in that at all, so I will ask again, since I did not receive an answer that time. Will the minister launch an independent investigation into how Vice-Admiral Norman's case was handled, yes or no?

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC

Mr. Chair, the various institutions in question here operate independently of the Department of Justice. The RCMP, in its investigative role, and the Public Prosecution Service of Canada, under the direction of the director of public prosecutions, have performed their functions independently of us, and I am satisfied that the justice system in Canada functioned well to get to an appropriate result.

6:35 p.m.

NDP

Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON

Mr. Chair, it is quite curious to me that the minister does not seem to be able to utter the word “no”, although that is certainly what Canadians are hearing tonight from him.

Why did the Prime Minister comment publicly that the Norman case was likely to proceed to trial before it actually happened?

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC

Mr. Chair, I was not minister of justice at the time, so I do not know the exact timing of what happened, and I have no comment on it.

6:35 p.m.

NDP

Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON

Mr. Chair, does the minister think that the Prime Minister should comment publicly on a case that is likely to proceed to trial before that actually happens?

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC

Mr. Chair, I can say again that the director of public prosecutions has stated on at least two occasions that there was no political interference in the prosecution or the carriage of the case and the decision to stay the case, and the RCMP is fiercely independent in its investigative role.

6:35 p.m.

NDP

Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON

Mr. Chair, does the minister think that the Prime Minister's comments were appropriate?

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC

Mr. Chair, once again, there has been, according to the actors in the system who manage the system, the director of public prosecutions and the RCMP, no political interference in this case, in their view.